[SW:TOR] SPACE COMBAT CONFIRMED

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  • AkootAkoot Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Which videos are you talking about? They seem to improve over time in my opinion.

    Akoot on
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Akoot wrote: »
    Which videos are you talking about? They seem to improve over time in my opinion.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6IAoPAjzpw

    Was the first one

    Brainleech on
  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I don't think he's talking about the cinematics.

    And I agree with Burden. Some of the stuff looks off and I'm not sure if it's because they are trying to make things happen in the gameplay videos that aren't really there.

    For example; In the Jedi Knight video there are the scenes of one jedi fighting 2 sith and there is a super akward moment with the jedi does a parry/flip move and the two sith fall over. it looks wierd and doesn't actually seem like any of the hits are connecting. The sith also don't seem to get cut down but more like just collapse/fient.

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  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    "Gameplay" trailers like the Jedi Knight video don't actually consist of honest-to-goodness gameplay footage, so I wouldn't worry about that too much.

    reVerse on
  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Exactly, but I can see why people would watch them and get that "off feeling".

    On the other hand, watching it again, the movement animations for the sith when he starts running look awesome. you can really see the body weight move and shift as he moves forward.

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  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I got the "off feeling", but I didn't care because the Jedi Knight in question looked fucking awesome. Cool > off.

    reVerse on
  • Burden of ProofBurden of Proof You three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on. Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    No, the class trailers and CG cinematics are all amazing. I'm talking about the gameplay videos from Gamescon.

    http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-10-star-wars/703274

    Let me reiterate, I thought the Jedi Knight class trailer looked amazing.

    Burden of Proof on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Watched the first Youtube video with the Trooper.

    Dear god the combat in this game looks so uninspired.

    edit: The Sith Warrior starts out equipped with a stick.

    facepalm.jpg

    reVerse on
  • farbekriegfarbekrieg Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    Watched the first Youtube video with the Trooper.

    Dear god the combat in this game looks so uninspired.

    edit: The Sith Warrior starts out equipped with a stick.

    facepalm.jpg

    are you sure it isnt stick +1? seems kind of lame to start with just regular stick

    farbekrieg on
  • AstaleAstale Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    It's probably made of cortosis or something. Super stick.

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  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Man, things take a long time to die in this game.

    Zetetic Elench on
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  • Magic RadioMagic Radio Registered User
    edited August 2010
    Way too much moon speak in those videos.

    Magic Radio on
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  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Some folks will not be happy until there's a MMO that just throws the kitchen sink and grandma panties into their development so that all possible combination of MMO-player personality will be satisfied. The game will never come out of course, being in development for 20 years - but still everyone will be - at some point -satisfied with the product.

    I expect nothing earth-shattering or ground-breaking from TOR; just a well made MMO experience whos design philosophy is to inspire with its "fun" - and if it innovates, well just a happy coincidence.

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  • AkootAkoot Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    Watched the first Youtube video with the Trooper.

    Dear god the combat in this game looks so uninspired.

    edit: The Sith Warrior starts out equipped with a stick.

    facepalm.jpg

    But didn't the sith training academy in Kotor have them sparing with training swords, and only gave a lightsaber to the one who passed the trials?

    Akoot on
  • Just Some DudeJust Some Dude Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    The image is eerily apropos for the triple post.

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  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    Watched the first Youtube video with the Trooper.

    Dear god the combat in this game looks so uninspired.

    You know, I made the mistake of watching a video of a new quest from World of Warcraft: Cataclysm. Supposedly it was a great illustration of how amazing and innovate and awesome the new expansion pack is.

    But... though the ideas behind the new WoW quest were humorous, the implementation was terrible for any video game. The gameplay itself was bland and not really that active. The storytelling was done with just text, some in quest boxes and some in prompts across the screen. It made me realize just how above and beyond the competition TOR is .. for an MMO.

    For being an MMO, the gameplay featured in the video footage is way better than MMO on the market. Definitely not as interesting as some shooters out there, but still -- it's good stuff. Not perfect, of course, but good.

    Here's the Cataclysm video I'm talking about, by the way.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1bP-m_BwX0

    Melkster on
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    So, I definitely am going to roll a Jedi Guardian.

    Who here wants to be the Carth to my Revan?

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  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    That might not be a popular role :lol:

    captaink on
  • slurpeepoopslurpeepoop Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    After watching those videos linked on the last page, I'm kinda sad that anything Star Wars related has to be directly influenced from the original 3 movies to maintain a familiarity with the movies themselves.

    All the ships, armor, buildings, weapons, and outfits look the same, despite there being a what, 5,000 year gap?

    Stormtroopers are neat and iconic, but really, military gear hasn't changed in 5 millennia? After 5,000 years, the AT-AT has evolved to just having 4 legs instead of 6? I'd swear I saw the satellite dish beam cannon from the Hoth battle in the trooper video, and it looked the exact same.

    I think the equipment, ships, and aesthetic style all suffer from the same thing as the races. If there was one in the movies, all other similar items have to be directly based on the example in the movie. There can be no diversions.

    Smuggler ship? It has to look like the Millennium Falcon, complete with asymmetrical cockpit placement. Why can't a smuggler have something else? Is there only one armor manufacturer in the universe, and they only make one model for a few thousand years?

    There just doesn't seem to be any innovation at all in any design at all.

    What's really odd is that the farther back they go from A New Hope, trooper armor looks more modern than the original Trilogy-era Stormtrooper armor. The basic black and white look a bit outdated to the Clone Wars-era models, and the exact copy of the clone trooper armor in this game, down to the paintings/markings.




    Is it wrong to want something a little different? It just seems odd that aesthetically, everything in the universe seems stuck design wise, with no new variations for 5,000 years, despite having zillions of different races and cultures.

    Maybe it's just me.

    slurpeepoop on


  • BoogdudBoogdud Registered User regular
    edited August 2010

    All the ships, armor, buildings, weapons, and outfits look the same, despite there being a what, 5,000 year gap?


    I would say the same thing about the gameplay, because it looks like mmo derivative combat 101 from 2002. It looks dated already.

    Don't get me wrong, the cinematics, dialogue scenes and those types of things look great. Right up to the point where someone is actually playing the game, then holy shit it takes a dive. It looks like tabula rasa to me, except even more stale if that's possible.

    They're still saying March for this? I guess they're really hoping that license pays off. I love me some Bioware and I loves me some Star Wars but man, I don't know if even those two giants can sell this one. I'm not trying to be overly negative or piss anyone off. I was just hoping for a little more I suppose.

    Boogdud on
  • starmanbrandstarmanbrand Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I swore that SSBB was going to be the last game thread I followed prior to release. Every other post in this thread is "omg dis gaem is teh sukk i wooda made a game diffrnt"

    I played UO for years, man. I don't need no fancy combat bull. Give me a lot of fun/variety and you'll get my money for years.

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  • Magic RadioMagic Radio Registered User
    edited August 2010
    Bioware sucks at making good combat, news at eleven.

    Magic Radio on
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  • ArkadyArkady Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Boogdud wrote: »

    All the ships, armor, buildings, weapons, and outfits look the same, despite there being a what, 5,000 year gap?


    I would say the same thing about the gameplay, because it looks like mmo derivative combat 101 from 2002. It looks dated already.

    Don't get me wrong, the cinematics, dialogue scenes and those types of things look great. Right up to the point where someone is actually playing the game, then holy shit it takes a dive. It looks like tabula rasa to me, except even more stale if that's possible.

    They're still saying March for this? I guess they're really hoping that license pays off. I love me some Bioware and I loves me some Star Wars but man, I don't know if even those two giants can sell this one. I'm not trying to be overly negative or piss anyone off. I was just hoping for a little more I suppose.

    It looks like it plays exactly like WoW. This pleases me though I understand frustration with it. Personally, all I've wanted for awhile now is a cool world with WoW's game mechanics because I am just tired of looking at WoW. Looks like ToR will be that.

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  • knightblade87knightblade87 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited August 2010
    I swore that SSBB was going to be the last game thread I followed prior to release. Every other post in this thread is "omg dis gaem is teh sukk i wooda made a game diffrnt"

    I played UO for years, man. I don't need no fancy combat bull. Give me a lot of fun/variety and you'll get my money for years.

    given that every other mmo after wow was "this game will be the wow killer ZOMG WOW IS DOOOOOOOOOMED" and this is getting hate on from almost every time it get a video update, i say this can hold up to wow.

    knightblade87 on
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    captaink wrote: »
    That might not be a popular role :lol:

    Shut up Onasi and get in the cockpit where you belong!

    And if you crash my ship I'll throw you in an exhaust port!!

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  • devCharlesdevCharles Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Is it wrong to want something a little different? It just seems odd that aesthetically, everything in the universe seems stuck design wise, with no new variations for 5,000 years, despite having zillions of different races and cultures.

    Maybe it's just me.

    Did you or Boogdud even play Kotor?

    I don't know why people are expecting Bioware to create an innovative combat system. When did they become known for this or expected to do this?

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Pretty much.

    Kotor was just a flashy Neverwinter Nights combat system.

    I imagine ToR will be a flashy WoW version of combat.

    Nothing really wrong with that really. They are investing a shit ton of money in voice acting and narrative. I wouldn't realistically expect them to risk alienating people with a new combat system that might make it harder for casual players to get into. Therefor, the combat system shouldn't be so complex or it might be hard to draw in new players. The higher the learning curve, the harder to get new subscriptions.

    Simple, tried and true, is safer. They can innovate in the story, that's what I care mostly about anyhow. Narrative and story. If the combat is a carbon copt of WoW with a twist, so be it. WoW's combat isn't that bad anyhow.

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  • NyhtNyht Registered User regular
    edited August 2010


    Is it wrong to want something a little different? It just seems odd that aesthetically, everything in the universe seems stuck design wise, with no new variations for 5,000 years, despite having zillions of different races and cultures.

    Maybe it's just me.

    I always look at stuff like this with the following mentality:

    Necessity is the mother of all creation/invention. With as much as they have, what more do they really NEED to improve on? Heck, maybe they reached the end of the technological rainbow and things just evolved very very slowly for 5k years because of it.

    I'm personally ok with it looking the same but being 3.5k years in the past. You get to play in the star wars verse and not step on canon toes :D

    Nyht on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I don't see what's wrong with keeping the Warcraft playstyle. For an MMO, they're already being incredibly innovative with the story driven plot, cutscenes and voice acting. Had they invented a new style of combat, they'd be on the cusp of inventing an entirely new genre.

    WoW was such a big deal not because the gameplay mechanics were such a drastic change from Everquest, but because the manner of progression was so extreme. It pioneered the methods which made solo progression possible. TOR is making a similar leap not only into progression that follows an involved story, but having the progression be class specific.

    As for the aesthetic being the same, well, that's Star Wars. I admit they could add a little variety with specific models (ie every scoundrel shouldn't be wearing a vest and ever bounty hunter shouldn't be wearing full body armor with an eerily fett-esque helmet) but buildings and such being the same is just the atmosphere that goes along with the brand.

    Javen on
  • CripTonicCripTonic Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Simple, tried and true, is safer. They can innovate in the story, that's what I care mostly about anyhow. Narrative and story. If the combat is a carbon copt of WoW with a twist, so be it. WoW's combat isn't that bad anyhow.

    WoW's combat is actually probably the most fluid and well-designed of all the current MMOs available, with the lone exception being Guild Wars.

    I think emulating it will be a bigger challenge than Bioware is up to, given the somewhat shoddy combat mechanics of previous non-shooter RPG games. That said, Blizzard is starting to explore more possibilities for combat in Cataclysm (allowing some casting while moving, removing on-next-hit mechanics) so until Bioware sees how those turn out, they still might be a few steps behind.

    All of the in game stuff I've seen for TOR combat has be quite underwhelming, but WoW might also appear that way to observers who have never played it.

    CripTonic on
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  • devCharlesdevCharles Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I imagine it's hard to fanboy or be a hater regarding the combat unless you got in the beta, and even then it's still kind of a stretch. But hey, I'm admittedly optimistic about how this game will be. The fact they have their beta so far out from release leaves me hopeful that they're actually using it for more than stress tests, so even some things we may see in the leaked videos might change as it is still considered a work in progress.

    If the whole thing is still not your cuppa, there's no video game police that require you to play games when they release.


    The same can be said about GW2, really. Who knows if the videos are going to be really representative of how any of us will actually play that game.

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  • BoogdudBoogdud Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    devCharles wrote: »
    Did you or Boogdud even play Kotor?

    I don't know why people are expecting Bioware to create an innovative combat system. When did they become known for this or expected to do this?

    Yeah, I played Kotor. 7 years ago. I expected maybe a little upgrade in the combat department. It doesn't need to be 'innovative', but something at least entertaining would be good. I mean Mass Effect wasn't all that innovative but I found the combat sequences quite fun. Also, ME2 was a very good leap imo over ME in the combat.

    I guess I maybe expected too much. I didn't expect it to look exactly the same as kotor. Which it does. I suppose if that's what you were looking for you got what you wanted. So that's cool.


    Edit note: After having said that I do agree with Mild Confusion about the narrative being the primary focus and I'm fine with that. I really like what bioware does, and I'm just as interested in that part of the game as I was with combat.

    Boogdud on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Boogdud wrote: »
    devCharles wrote: »
    Did you or Boogdud even play Kotor?

    I don't know why people are expecting Bioware to create an innovative combat system. When did they become known for this or expected to do this?

    Yeah, I played Kotor. 7 years ago. I expected maybe a little upgrade in the combat department. It doesn't need to be 'innovative', but something at least entertaining would be good. I mean Mass Effect wasn't all that innovative but I found the combat sequences quite fun. Also, ME2 was a very good leap imo over ME in the combat.

    I guess I maybe expected too much. I didn't expect it to look exactly the same as kotor. Which it does. I suppose if that's what you were looking for you got what you wanted. So that's cool.


    Edit note: After having said that I do agree with Mild Confusion about the narrative being the primary focus and I'm fine with that. I really like what bioware does, and I'm just as interested in that part of the game as I was with combat.

    If you thought an MMO was going to have combat as real time as Mass Effect 2 then you thought wrong, plain and simple. GW2 is supposedly going to do this, but I'll believe it when I'm playing it. The combat in the TOR videos doesn't look anything like KOTOR. KOTOR was a turn based d20 system of combat, TOR is basically WoW with no auto attack.

    I am extremely psyched about TOR, and no less so having seen the videos. It seems to me that you have a skewed perception of what combat in the genre is like. Maybe you don't play other MMOs.

    Joshmvii on
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I seem to recall a vague awareness of the state of technology, at least in KOTOR. Either in 1 or 2 I remember someone saying something like "Nothing ever changes. Every year the ships get a little faster and the guns get a little more powerful." Taken to its extreme, that kind of makes sense I guess?

    Really I don't think that's entirely Bioware's fault. The Old Republic universe existed before the games.

    That said, the changes from the prequels to the originals kind of make sense. The stormtrooper armor looks new and flashy under the Republic, but old and worn to represent the fallen-apart state things are in since the Empire.

    Terrendos on
  • BoogdudBoogdud Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    If you thought an MMO was going to have combat as real time as Mass Effect 2 then you thought wrong, plain and simple. GW2 is supposedly going to do this, but I'll believe it when I'm playing it. The combat in the TOR videos doesn't look anything like KOTOR. KOTOR was a turn based d20 system of combat, TOR is basically WoW with no auto attack.

    I am extremely psyched about TOR, and no less so having seen the videos. It seems to me that you have a skewed perception of what combat in the genre is like. Maybe you don't play other MMOs.


    Wow... Actually I was using ME as an example of bioware evolving it's combat engine, not saying I wanted combat to be like ME. Though, tbh, now that you mention it, that would indeed be awesome ;). And yes, the TOR gameplay looks like KOTOR without pausing. Or if you're hung up on it being a 'd20 system' the combat looks like anarchy online or some other generic mmo derivative combat.

    Everyone seems to be fine with the game mimicking the status quo (that being wow). I don't think it even represents that. Wow's combat is actually very fluid and visceral and the animations are always pretty well done in wow. What I'm seeing from TOR's footage isn't even in the same league. It looks stale and tired.

    Cute jab at the 'genre perception' and the 'herr derr you don't play mmos' angle.

    Not going to spend time arguing about opinions on what constitutes 'good mmo combat'. If it's good enough for you that's cool. I'm just saying it's going to take one hell of a fucking cut scene and story for me to want to slog through that combat.

    Boogdud on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    KOTOR had turn based combat where your guys would sit there and attack. There is nothing turn based about TOR. There is no auto attack, and you have to actively choose to use each attack. The two games are not even close to similar in terms of the combat.

    The animations could definitely use more work in TOR, but then again, the game isn't coming out for another 6 or 8 months, so I'm sure they'll be more polished by then. MMO combat is never going to look fun watching a video anyway though. It's all about how good it feels when you're the one inputting the commands.

    Joshmvii on
  • Agent CooperAgent Cooper Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Terrendos wrote: »
    I seem to recall a vague awareness of the state of technology, at least in KOTOR. Either in 1 or 2 I remember someone saying something like "Nothing ever changes. Every year the ships get a little faster and the guns get a little more powerful." Taken to its extreme, that kind of makes sense I guess?

    Really I don't think that's entirely Bioware's fault. The Old Republic universe existed before the games.

    That said, the changes from the prequels to the originals kind of make sense. The stormtrooper armor looks new and flashy under the Republic, but old and worn to represent the fallen-apart state things are in since the Empire.

    The old and worn stuff was the Rebellion

    Shiny and glossy and new was the Empire.

    The clone armor looks new and flashy under the Republic because it's all fucking CGI. There's no symbolism behind it.

    Agent Cooper on
  • Magic RadioMagic Radio Registered User
    edited August 2010
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Really I don't think that's entirely Bioware's fault. The Old Republic universe existed before the games.

    Bioware has a done a mighty fine job of cleaning up the utter shit that the Old Republic universe was too. Before Bioware made KOTOR, the technology of the Old Republic was more akin to D&D in space than Star Wars.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Yeah, Kotor's combat system was a d20 turn based system. It was just really prettied up, but was little more than Neverwinter Nights with lightsabers. ToR, like WoW, will be real time. There will be abilities and "spells" that are instant and can be performed while moving, ect. Only real difference that I've seen so far from videos is that there is no autoattack in ToR.

    Kotor's and ToR's combat system will be like night and day.

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  • NyhtNyht Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Yeah, Kotor's combat system was a d20 turn based system. It was just really prettied up, but was little more than Neverwinter Nights with lightsabers. ToR, like WoW, will be real time. There will be abilities and "spells" that are instant and can be performed while moving, ect. Only real difference that I've seen so far from videos is that there is no autoattack in ToR.

    Kotor's and ToR's combat system will be like night and day.

    Given the lack of auto attacks and it often being a generous portion of a lot of classes damage, I'm hoping combat might be more exciting that way. Also when it comes to pvp (even though it isnt a central focus for me), the fights might last longer.

    I'm very curious to see how no AA works out in the end.

    Nyht on
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