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Slightly awkward ex-boyfriend situation.
Marmoset
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Hey, H/A.
So honestly, this is a really stupid situation and not even that dramatic, but I wanted to get the hive-mind's opinion. My ex and I broke up three years ago, and it was pretty messy. We spent the next two years basically avoiding each other, although we had mutual friends. Now in the past 6-8 months or so, we've started talking on AIM again, and aside from a couple of blow-ups, it's been fairly... "civil," and I have no issue with being in a group when he's around. But here's the thing. He is way too eager to become close friends with me again (at least that's the impression I get from our conversations and what my friends have been telling me, i.e. that he's "obsessed" with me), and I don't want this at all, because honestly? I just don't like him. I have too many bad memories from our relationship, I don't think he's a very likeable person, and even three years later, he still pulls the same controlling, passive-aggressive, incredibly annoying stuff at me that he did when we were dating. Now, you may ask, "if you don't like him, why do you talk to him?" and... I'm not sure if I can answer that. I guess I don't mind having a civil, un-awkward relationship with him (and some of the conversations we have can be pleasant. We dated for a really long time, and sometimes it's helpful to talk to someone who's known me so well.), but definitely not to the extent that he does. I'm just confused as to where and how to draw the line.
Anyway, here's the immediate problem. His birthday is in a couple of days, and he invited me to his house. Number one, I'm not sure if I should even go or not. I'd like to, because all my other friends will be there, and it could be fun. Number two, he's been "demanding" that I get him a present. Kind of in a jokey way, but I can tell he means it (he did the same thing last year, too). Now normally, I always get gifts for my friends, and I've been raised not to show up empty-handed to a birthday party. But in this case, I just don't know what to do. I feel like if I get him something, it'll be code for "yay, we're friends again!" and my current boyfriend will think it's questionable, my parents will think it's questionable... (they all think I'm better off just staying away, period, and don't understand why I even talk to him). Oh, and just to add a detail... HE'S been getting me presents even since we broke up, by creepily driving to my house the night of my birthday and leaving something in my car. Yeah, a little weird. This year, the year we started talking again, he stepped it up and actually politely came to my door and gave me a gift.
So it's a pretty clear cut Miss Manners situation, in other words. Should I just go and get him a completely impersonal $10 gift card, or something? Should I not even go? How do I proceed with this whole "being friendly with an ex" situation, when he clearly hasn't gotten over our relationship?
So honestly, this is a really stupid situation and not even that dramatic, but I wanted to get the hive-mind's opinion. My ex and I broke up three years ago, and it was pretty messy. We spent the next two years basically avoiding each other, although we had mutual friends. Now in the past 6-8 months or so, we've started talking on AIM again, and aside from a couple of blow-ups, it's been fairly... "civil," and I have no issue with being in a group when he's around. But here's the thing. He is way too eager to become close friends with me again (at least that's the impression I get from our conversations and what my friends have been telling me, i.e. that he's "obsessed" with me), and I don't want this at all, because honestly? I just don't like him. I have too many bad memories from our relationship, I don't think he's a very likeable person, and even three years later, he still pulls the same controlling, passive-aggressive, incredibly annoying stuff at me that he did when we were dating. Now, you may ask, "if you don't like him, why do you talk to him?" and... I'm not sure if I can answer that. I guess I don't mind having a civil, un-awkward relationship with him (and some of the conversations we have can be pleasant. We dated for a really long time, and sometimes it's helpful to talk to someone who's known me so well.), but definitely not to the extent that he does. I'm just confused as to where and how to draw the line.
Anyway, here's the immediate problem. His birthday is in a couple of days, and he invited me to his house. Number one, I'm not sure if I should even go or not. I'd like to, because all my other friends will be there, and it could be fun. Number two, he's been "demanding" that I get him a present. Kind of in a jokey way, but I can tell he means it (he did the same thing last year, too). Now normally, I always get gifts for my friends, and I've been raised not to show up empty-handed to a birthday party. But in this case, I just don't know what to do. I feel like if I get him something, it'll be code for "yay, we're friends again!" and my current boyfriend will think it's questionable, my parents will think it's questionable... (they all think I'm better off just staying away, period, and don't understand why I even talk to him). Oh, and just to add a detail... HE'S been getting me presents even since we broke up, by creepily driving to my house the night of my birthday and leaving something in my car. Yeah, a little weird. This year, the year we started talking again, he stepped it up and actually politely came to my door and gave me a gift.
So it's a pretty clear cut Miss Manners situation, in other words. Should I just go and get him a completely impersonal $10 gift card, or something? Should I not even go? How do I proceed with this whole "being friendly with an ex" situation, when he clearly hasn't gotten over our relationship?
Marmoset on
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https://medium.com/@alascii
I personally wouldn't go, because it seems he's crossed a line that you're just not comfortable with and he needs to realize that. Have you talked to him about his gift leaving? You can be friendly, just not friends. What do you want out of the situation?
leave your 'friendship' with him on a purely 'if he's at a gathering of my friends, whatever' but don't talk to him one on one anymore, don't go to his birthday parties so long as he has a weird fixation on you, and (I'm going to reiterate here) don't accept anymore presents from him period.
he drops one off in your car? take it to his house and leave it in his mailbox. start rolling up your car windows, and if he comes to the door with it, tell him 'not to be rude, but no thank you'. then close the door if he tries to object.
where you and he are going with this is all a very bad idea.
This is going to lead to him showing up on her doorstep without a doubt.
The safe way to do this (if you don't want to show up empty-handed) is to pool gifts with your friends. That way the gift won't be personalized
The venomous way to do this is to invite your boyfriend alone too. The really evil option is to give him a gift and say you and your boyfriend got it for him. Present your boyfriend to him and that'll set off a very nice pyschcological boarder. The really, really evil option is to then make out with your boyfriend right in frount of his face.
Roll up your car windows/lock your car, don't feel obligated to go to his party or give him a present, and please just stop talking to him. It really sounds like he feels your friendly interest may become more than that, and like Bel says, that is going nowhere good
You used the word yourself, 'obsessed'. Its not a good word. It doesn't make for good relationships on any side of the line of friend and intimate.
You would do better just to not talk to him ever again, and quietly rebuff his advances.
https://medium.com/@alascii
You don't owe him ANYTHING. He gives you gifts because that gives him leverage to use in manipulating you - because you give gifts and you have been taught to value giving things as a virtuous behavior.
So, my advice:
- You don't have to be friendly with him, just because he's pushing friendship on you. If your friends pull the "aww, he's just being nice" thing, then they're not terribly good friends (IMO and in my own painful experience); you have the option of saying "Yeah, well, I've moved on and don't want to revisit all that."
- Don't accept any more gifts. Period. Even if you have to lock your car or conspicuously leave it on the top of the trash when the garbage men come.
- If you want to be polite and civil, send him a text message wishing him happy birthday. You are not obligated to get him a gift.
- Do NOT respond to him on IM. Even if you have to change your screenname or use a different IM client. He's pushing the boundary between friendly ex and stalker.
And the most important thing is the important people in your life now. If your boyfriend isn't comfortable with this guy's attention towards you, if you're not comfortable with the situation and if your parents are urging caution, these are clear warning signs that this is NOT a good dynamic.
Sometimes being a nice person means being nice to yourself and not dealing with the foolish silly abusive geese of the world. And passive aggressive behaviour that makes you feel bad about yourself, question your actions, and behave in a fashion that you aren't comfortable with (giving gifts to creepy ex's, for example), is, in fact, a kind of abuse. No, he's not beating you and then bringing you roses (or vice versa), but emotional abuse is equally awful in the end.
My suggestion regarding the birthday party? Thank him for the invitation, but do not commit to going. Go on a date with your boyfriend, or go to dinner with the BF and your parents. You do not owe him an explanation regarding why you didn't show up.
Of course, that's terribly rude and probably wouldn't improve the situation at all. Just the first thing that came to mind.
Nylonathetep actually has a decent idea in the 'gift-pool with friends.' That way he's not slighted, but he knows you aren't interested enough to get him a personalized gift. Either way, don't go on your own, you should probably bring your current boyfriend with you to drive the point home that you're not available.
Don't give him attention, simply be polite. And whatever you do, don't accept more gifts from him.
And in terms of his birthday, you guys are probably right, too. It'd be best just to stay away (and uh, yeah, I already said I'd go. >.> But I can always say I'm not going). The reason I wanted to was because all my friends would be there and it'd be fun times, but it's probably not worth it. I just hate that it's "all or nothing" - either I talk to him online and go to his house and be his friend - or I completely cut him off, again.
You are absolutely right. This is what he's been doing, and the situation, in a nutshell. When we talk online, he always slips in these little compliments, and I understand that it's all mostly a bid to get me to be "nice" to him back.
And that's why it's all or nothing. It's the safest thing for you and your sanity. He can't manipulate you if you're not talking to him.
I know I'd be right pissed.
My ex-husband does a lot of these behaviors too, and you have to understand that it's a power thing - he's trying to get you in his debt, to make you feel bad for not being nicer, and to force you to be part of his life again.
So here's what you do: you tell him no more gifts/texts/visits, you block him on MSN/chat, you tell your other friends that "Yeah I know I said I'd go, but I have a date with my awesome boyfriend instead. I'll hang out with you later!" and then actually go out somewhere with your boyfriend.
If you really actually do want him as a friend, and you're not just trying to strip him of his obnoxious qualities so he can be an ideal emotional crutch, then I would recommend you get him an impersonal inexpensive gift, but not go to the party yourself.
Have a friend deliver it and attach a note saying something to the effect of "Sorry I couldn't make it today. Have a wonderful birthday and I'm glad we're friends again!"
Basically be nice and friendly; extend the olive branch. But make it patently clear that you are only thinking of friendship and act as if anything more doesn't even exist in your reality.
If you want him to turn into a friend, you have to repeatedly communicate that that is all you see in him - not just verbally, but in terms of how you act around him and the kinds of behavior you accept from him - and give him the time and space to accept or reject that prospect as he chooses. If he truly has been pining for you this whole time, accept that friendship may not be something he can handle with you.
You're uncomfortable with the situation, so you need to cut him off. Block him from IM and do not accept anything from him any longer. For situations where you can't simply ignore him, you simply must tell him "I'm sorry X, but I'm not comfortable talking about/doing this with you at this time". You don't need to explain yourself beyond that.
If he freaks out or otherwise doesn't get the message after that, then he's a certified nutcase and you need to seriously consider shutting him out of your life altogether.
He wants you back and if you don't want to be with him in a romantic relationship then you should not enable him. He is the type that won't allow you to be "just friends".
I agree with Belruel here, except that leaving something in his mailbox is a federal offense. Don't do that.
Edit: If you live in the States
There will be plenty of opportunities to hang out with all your friends on other occasions
I've been friends with ex-girlfriends, and had some come to birthday parties, and if they asked me if they should bring a gift, I would always just say, "It's not necessary"
To jokingly insinuate that you'd better, but to really mean it is the height of creepiness and manipulation and I would just avoid that at all costs
- I don't want to make it hard on my friends who would have to keep us separate.
- What if my friends take his side?
- I don't want to hurt his feelings by telling him to go away.
- Some of the stuff he got me was expensive and I don't want to hurt his feelings by not taking it or seeming ungrateful.
- He'll get over it on his own eventually when he sees I'm still with my boyfriend and then I won't have to do anything.
- I don't want to have an awkward conversation.
- I owe it to him somehow.
- If he can just get over it we can be normal friends someday.
- Maybe I'm overreacting and this isn't as big a deal as it seems.
- I don't want him to think I'm the bad guy, or a bad person.
EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE FIRST TWO LISTED STEMS FROM THE FACT THAT YOU STILL CARE WHAT HE THINKS. That's natural, you dated and did lord knows what with the guy. But look, it's terribly unhealthy for you to keep seeing him, speaking with him, or accepting things from him. Sometimes you just have to use the "ignore" button. It was years ago and he's not over you. It's not your fault he's like this, but you CAN stop enabling the behavior. If you continue to do so, this could build up into something worse than "uncomfortable", and nobody wants to see it get to that point.
And you know what else? For every time you let yourself get wrapped up with talking to him again, every single time until you learn, you are eventually going to have to relive that messy break-up, all over again.
You dont have to be mean though, like dont make it awkward by ignoring his IMs or blocking him or anything weird. Just dont, get into the conversation with him. If he IMs you and says hi, say hi back and go back to doing whatver, dont remotely be engaged in his IMs. If he gets enough quick, clearly not interested replies from you he will probably realize your not interested, and depending on how much hes deluded himself already he will either back off or get angry.
And this, very much this:
What sucks is that for two years, I've been doing what anyone on this forum would have suggested - I ignored his emails, had him blocked on AIM, etc. I guess I just thought that would be enough time for him to stop acting like a silly goose. We started talking again because a mutual friend of ours had been having some problems, so at the time it made sense to be "allies," but since then, he's been being pretty pushy and awkward about being friends. At one point he even whined to me how I'm a bitch and it's "so obvious that I don't care about him," then kept trying to be BFFs anyway. That was a big red flag.
So you see, it can pretty much only get worse from here. He may be obsessed with you, but that's all it is. He so obviously doesn't actually care for you, or he wouldn't call you names in the first place. Continuing communication with this sort of person is entirely toxic and can do you nothing but harm. Somebody above said you should just cold-turkey stop, and at this point I pretty much agree.
Stalker. Guys like this play on guilt and the tendency for nice people to want everyone to be on good terms with them. Fuck that, you don't need to be on good terms with a stalker. Tell him you'll no longer be speaking to him or responding to texts or emails. Period. After that, document his attempts to reach you or if he leaves gifts for you. Recognize that you may well be getting a restraining order. Do not engage or respond at all.
This isn't very good advice. Any response from you gets interpreted as "so you're saying there's a chance we can get back together."
Look, your friends have themselves told you he's obsessed. It sounds like they will have your back on this. By continuing to speak with this guy, you're doing him and yourself a disservice. He's never going to be able to just be friends.
Yeah I foresee the following:
I'm not certain that all of the mutual friends are reliable allies for you. It may benefit you to become completely disinterested in any mention of the guy. For example:
Friend: The guy who's obsessed with you did thus-and-such
You: Huh. Did I tell you about the movie I saw last week?
Or something. I've been told that indifference is the only way to show guys that you truly are not interested in them. If you show any other emotion, positive or negative, it will make the guy think either "She's really into me" or "She's playing hard-to-get". And the stronger the emotion displayed, the more of a chance they think they have.
Or so I've heard.
ah, forgot about that, just throw it on his front step then.
On the other hand, if you don't want to get him if a gift, don't get him a gift. If you don't want to go to his party, call him up or send him an email and say 'I don't feel like going to your party.' If it's because he's weirding you out, say 'I just feel weird about this' or whatever you think most accurately describes your reasons for not going to the party if that's what you want to do.
That's what you should do if you really want to take control of the level of the relationship. Know what you want and what you don't want and make it clear to the both of you that you're being honest. If you want to be his friend then perform actions you'd perform with friends. If you don't, then treat him like a non-friend. Complicated social maneuvers will confuse both of you. Don't tell him you like him to smooth out the situation, don't tell him you hate him to get him off your back. Tell him you like him if you like him or you hate him if you hate him and if you really could care less, don't tell him anything. It's your subjective life, it's your subjective stance on the relationship, so it's your subjective opinion that matters in this situation.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
sorry I'm jumping in late.
This is where the train of thought needs to stop. You have a boyfriend. You're asking for trouble on many levels by renewing a friendship with someone obsessed with you. Honestly, there's a subcontext of "I want to be pursued" that you're sending out...even if you really truly don't want to be.
Cut the cord. There's a reason he's an ex. He wants more than friendship and it'll only screw you up now like it did years ago.
Honestly, all the pieces have started to come together. The "leaving gifts in my car" shenanigans really were just a bid to put me "in his debt," which is so obvious now. Ugh. I didn't think it was that clear-cut.
I guess my problem now is how to proceed with him in general. I know he's going to IM me afterwards and ask why I didn't go to his house, and I know he's going to IM me anyway just to talk, and at first it's going to be something innocent, and later he'll throw in a random compliment, or inside joke we used to have, and I'll be like =/.
Yeah. I think I should just not talk to him anymore, because two years clearly were not enough.