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Murderer Ronnie Lee Gardner was executed today in Utah. Would you like to know more?
The Ender
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Not the prettiest fellow around
Mr. Gardner, 49, had opted for death via firing squad and was shot today around midnight. He himself had murdered a bartender during an armed robbery and later killed an attorney while trying to escape his trial.
You'll no doubt be shocked to hear that:
Neither of his victims sprung back to life after Mr. Gardner ceased to live. 
Information regarding Mr. Gardner's past, courtesy TheSpectre & Huffington Post:
HuffPo wrote:Born on Jan. 16, 1961, in Salt Lake City, he was one of nine children born to Ruth Lucas, a petite woman who drank while pregnant and lived to go out dancing when she wasn't.
Ruth and husband Dan Gardner, a heavy drinker who had trouble keeping a job, split when Ronnie was a toddler, leaving the boy to be mostly reared by a sister eight years older who took over for days at a time while their mother went out partying.
When Dan Gardner was around, he'd tell Ronnie he wasn't his son.
"He hit you. He was just awful," a half sibling once testified.
The family moved around Salt Lake City but always seemed to live in squalor. At age 4, Gardner contracted meningitis. Lawyers and medical experts over the years have argued whether that illness damaged Gardner's brain.
His siblings were a problem, too. Gardner has said an older brother molested him. By the time he was 6, the boy's siblings had taught him to huff gas and glue. At age 10, police investigated a report Gardner had traded a BB gun for marijuana.
Teachers judged Gardner to be hyperactive and said he needed special classes.
"He couldn't learn or he felt like he couldn't learn or he wasn't as smart as the other kids," a brother once testified. "He would get made fun of because he was in remedial classes and he got in a lot of fights over that."
Gardner shoplifted. He prowled for cars to burglarize.
As he got older, his drug use escalated to include methamphetamine, cocaine and heroin. Gardner once told a psychiatrist he would get into a cold tub before injecting meth to mitigate his reaction to the drugs so he could take more.
"I probably injected heroin 200 times," Gardner said, "maybe more."
Already familiar with life in state custody as young as age 9, by his early teens, Gardner had spent time at the Utah State Hospital in Provo and the State Industrial School in Ogden, then Utah's primary juvenile corrections facility.
And, of course, he tried to escape.
He jumped over fences and swam canals to flee the school, hiding with friends or family before police apprehended him and sent him back.
"I wouldn't stay anywhere -- anywhere
Ronnie Lee Gardner
where I had to be told what to do," Gardner has said. "If somebody let me stay at their place and didn't really boss me around and stuff, we got along fine, but as soon as the rules started coming ...I would run away."
Industrial school staffers nonetheless found Gardner to be charming and bright. Worker Stephen DeVries once testified he wanted to open a fruit stand in Jackson, Wyo., and asked Gardner to manage it.
"I had enough trust and faith in him," DeVries said.
But the plan fell through.
--
Father issues » The few men a young Gardner viewed as role models only encouraged his criminal tendencies.
Siblings said he idolized his mother's subsequent husband Bill Lucas, serving as a lookout while the man burglarized homes from Parleys Canyon to Wyoming.
Lucas stole mercury from gas meters to sell and brought it home in Mason jars. Gardner and his siblings played with the toxic gray balls, rolling them along the dirty floor.
Lucas spent 1968 in the Wyoming State Penitentiary for grand larceny.
Later, when Gardner was a young teen, a brother met Jack Statt at a bus stop and agreed to perform oral sex for $25. The brother, and eventually Gardner, ended up living with Statt, who even became Gardner's official foster parent for a few months in 1975.
Statt performed sex acts on the boys. Gardner also later admitted to psychologists that he worked as a prostitute while living with the man. Those psychologists called Statt a pedophile, but Gardner has said his time with Statt was the most stable of his life and one of the few times somebody seemed to care about him.
"Jack was a good man, and he tried to help us out," Gardner said.
Gardner's last moments:
UTAH STATE PRISON — Randy Gardner reached through the bars of a maximum-security cell and shook his little brother's hand.
Then he kissed him goodbye.
"I haven't touched him in 27 years," Randy said of his younger brother, Ronnie Lee Gardner, who was executed by firing squad shortly after midnight for the murder of attorney Michael Burdell in 1985.
Randy met with his brother, who was two years younger than him, Wednesday evening after Ronnie Lee met with his children and a granddaughter.
"We were able to hug and kiss," an emotional Brandie Gardner told the Deseret News Thursday. She was just 3 years old when her dad was sentenced to die. "He said he loved me and that he was sorry. He has a lot of remorse for what he's done."
Randy said his brother was haunted by the men he killed and the pain their families suffered as a result of his actions. Ronnie Lee shot Melvyn John Otterstrom to death in 1984 while robbing the Cheers Tavern in Salt Lake City. He was appearing in court on those murder charges on April 2, 1985, when he obtained a gun smuggled to him by a female friend as part of a planned escape attempt. He shot and killed Burdell and then shot sheriff's bailiff Nick Kirk, who was unarmed. While Kirk survived the shooting, he suffered tremendous pain and his lifestyle was altered by the injuries that plagued his life until his death 11 years later.
Randy said Ronnie was particularly bothered by the pain he'd caused Jason Otterstrom, who was 3 years old when his father was murdered.
"He's just always been really, really concerned about that kid," Randy told the Deseret News.
After Ronnie Lee Gardner's commutation hearing with the Board of Pardons last week, Otterstrom went to the prison and met with the man who took his father's life.
"They spent about 45 minutes talking," Randy said. "A few days later, Jason called and told him he forgave him."
Ronnie Lee told Jason that he loved him, and Randy believes his brother wasn't just sorry about the pain he's caused, but felt genuine love for all of the families shattered by his actions.
Which is why about eight years ago, Ronnie Lee began researching organic gardening in hopes of building a place that might be a haven to troubled children like him.
"He wants us to continue working to build the farm," said Randy of Back to Basics, the organic farm that the Gardner family now hopes to build on 160 acres in Box Elder County. Ronnie Lee asked his family Wednesday night not to let his dream die, even if he did.
"I think that's what's kept Ronnie alive," Randy said. "He said to me, 'I just can't believe how many people I hurt.' "
That includes his brother, his children and his friends, as well as the loved ones of his victims.
Ronnie Lee's ability to change and begin something that might help others struggling to find their way is what Brandie will remember most about her father.
"Just his heart," she said, wiping away tears. "How much he wants to help other kids like him. I think it would be a great thing. And being able to change, especially being in an institution. Not everyone can do that."
Brandie said her mother moved to Idaho after the sensational trial and death sentence in the mid-'80s.
"I've always had a relationship with him," she said.
During the summers, she and her brother would make the trip to Utah with their mom and visit Ronnie Lee.
"I remember being really little, and I remember playing with other kids on a playground," she said.
Despite feeling bad that she didn't have the kind of dad who could come to her school functions or give her a hug on a daily basis, she overcame any resentment she had toward him or the situation by talking with him.
"I wrote him a letter and told him how I felt," she said. The two later discussed it and have been very close ever since. His belongings were given to Brandie Wednesday night, at her father's request.
His body will be donated to science.
"He didn't want us to see his dead body," said Randy. He also didn't want his family to watch the execution, although he was allowed to have his own witnesses present.
"He don't want that to be our last image," Randy said. "He don't want us to have nightmares and bad dreams."
Asked what kind of father he was, Brandie fights back tears.
"Me and my dad butt heads," she said, "but he has a good heart."
And he offered the typical fatherly advice.
"He tells me to stay out of trouble," she said. "He tells me to stay away from drugs and alcohol, that they're bad. He told me to stay in school. And 'listen to your mom'. "
Brandie said having to grow up in the shadow of her father's crimes hasn't been easy, but her father's love and personality made it easier.
"I wasn't ashamed of who he was," she said. "He told me he was very proud of who I've become, and that he wants me to continue on with my life."
Gardner's former sister-in-law and friend, Debbie, asked that the Deseret News not use her last name, but wanted people to understand that while the crimes were horrible, the man was not.
"We hated what Ronnie had done," she said. "But we loved Ronnie. … When someone you love kills someone else, it crushes your heart. We carried that burden with us."
Still, she said standing by Ronnie Lee was the only option for those who knew him best.
"It's easy to reach out to people that are nice normal people," she said. "I've never known the bad side of Ronnie. I've only known the positive side of Ronnie. He encourages me, counsels me, helps me — and he's never once forgotten my birthday."
She believes the culture in prison made him more callous.
"When Ronnie first went to prison, it was either you're going to be a survivor or you're going to be a victim," she said. "And he was a survivor."
When she struggled with how much people hated Gardner, he advised her to find a way to love them.
"He told me, 'Hate just breeds hatred,' " she said. ' "If the people I love, love me, then I'm OK.' "
His parting words to her as she cried about his impending execution were, "Don't mourn my death — celebrate my freedom."
And freedom, Randy said with a smile, is something his brother had always wanted.
Gardner's execution:
They placed the barrels of their rifles through a slot in the wall and aimed at the target above Gardner's heart. Four of the rifles were loaded with a single live bullet. The fifth contained an "ineffective" round – which unlike a blank gives the same recoil as a live bullet; that way none of the five executioners could know whether or not they had delivered the fatal shot.
Nine journalists from local TV channels and newspapers described what happened next. At 12.15am, when the countdown reached two, a very loud eruption of noise signalled the discharge of the guns. The target had holes in it and began to turn a darker colour.
At the point of impact Gardner clenched his fist and his left arm convulsed, rising up and down, then up and down again. He continued rubbing his thumb and finger together for so long that some of the reporters thought he was still alive and wondered if the firing squad would have to reload.
Then, two minutes after the gunfire, the doctor came in and lifted the hood. Gardner's face was revealed, looking ashen, and his head was slumped backwards. He was pronounced dead at 12.17am.
"It was cleaner than I expected," said Sheryl Worsley of the local news station KSL. "But he moved and that bothers me. It mirrors the last couple of weeks – he was fighting to stay alive."
Once the doctor had confirmed that Gardner's 49 years of life were at an end, the news was put out. This being the 21st century, even in Utah, the prison authorities made the grim announcement via Twitter.
"We found out that the executioners were given a countdown but that for some unexplained reason they had decided in advance that they would all fire at the penultimate number.
Five. Four. Three.
And on the count of two they opened fire."
"He's free now," his sister Diane said. "He's not in pain any more, he's not locked up, he's up there with the rest of his family."
In the run-up to his execution, Gardner did not try to protest his innocence. Instead he told the authorities of his broken childhood and pleaded with them to take that in mitigation.
He reminded them that aged two he was found wandering the streets alone severely malnourished and dressed only in a nappy. At five, he was sexually abused by an older sister and her friend. At six he was sniffing glue. By 10 he was addicted to hard drugs, and by 14 he was being put out to work as a prostitute by a paedophile who was allowed to become his foster parent.
When his daughter Brandie asked him recently why in April he chose the firing squad rather than the more conventional lethal injection method, he said: "I lived by the gun, I murdered with a gun, I will die by the gun."
In the last few years Gardner worked with his brother Randy to set up a project for abused children. With Randy's money, supplemented by a little Gardner had saved selling craftworks he made in prison, they bought a plot of land in northern Utah where they planned to teach troubled kids how to farm.
It would be organic, Gardner insisted, because he was convinced that chemicals in food were killing people. He told Brandie that if the farm could help just one child who was on the wrong path and save them from his fate, then it would all have been worth it.
Death via firing squad is obviously something atypical in the United States and will be phased out of the system entirely in a few years (there's only a few inmates left in Utah that have the option of opting for death via firing squad), though - obviously - execution via lethal injection is still considered an acceptable punishment to hammer down on violent criminals in some states.
I'm not sure how pro death penalty or not the board is, but I'm firmly opposed to it. The state has gained nothing for Mr. Gardner's death and it makes laws prohibiting murder seem farcical when the entity imposing those laws sees itself as above them.
With Love and Courage
The Ender on
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HOWEVER.
I'm anti-25 year stays on death row. I personally feel that if you make it past 10 years your sentence should be commuted to life in prison. At the same time, the appeals process for death row inmates needs to be revamped to make the process quicker and easier on everyone. But I do not know enough about the law to come up with an idea on how to do that, it's just a thought.
They should have put him down on the spot.
Easy, the tax payer doesn't need to keep paying for his worthless ass in jail.
If it took twenty five years though that is just crazy, needs to be done much quicker otherwise they might as well stay locked up.
And that makes it all the more important for it to be abolished, emotion can be a dangerous thing.
I'm not really going to lose any sleep over this particular case though, the guy was obviously guilty. I'm more concerned about how the death penalty fits into a culture of prosecution and is too often used as a punishment not for dangerous criminals, but for poor criminals without access to good lawyers.
Cost isn't a point in favor of the death penalty, killing someone is very expensive. You could make it cheaper, I suppose, by removing appeals and reviews and by making it less humane but then you've kind of set yourself up for having a pretty terrible implementation of the death penalty.
I only half-mean that statement, for the record.
The death penalty is a very fucking weird thing for me to decide on. On the one hand, it is idealistic that we not have to use it, and it brings more consistency to "pro-life" positions, etc. On the other hand, some people are really goddamn terrible murderous fucks and it would give me peace of mind knowing they got what's coming to them. But my peace of mind isn't always what's best.
So, I don't know. :?
Edit - Oh God, PotatoNinja
I don't understand this mentality.
I mean, you get that killing a murderer does nothing for the victim's next of kin, right? I mean, maybe there's some brief moment of ecstasy right after the retribution has been doled-out, but after that fades away the world is just as empty without Ronnie Lee Gardner being a part of it.
1. The person has intentionally comitted a henious crime and shows no remorse
2. We know 100% for certain we have the right person
3. Because of #2, no need for an appeals process that would cost more than life in prison.
So in other words, I'm anti-death penalty in the real world.
Which is the point.
Anyway.
I'm pro death penalty, but with stipulations. Largely the evidence against someone has to be infallible. I'm not talking about some Mumia type of shenanigans, but serious and undeniable proof.
And only then if the execution can take place in a manner in which it costs less and uses less court time than a simple life sentence would entail.
Otherwise the cost and risk that you can put an innocent man to death is too high.
Yeah, pretty much!
Blood lust masquerading as justice.
Oh, I'm not exactly shedding tears over the loss of Gardner either - I just don't think any modern state should be in the business of executing people. It's momentarily satisfying for everyone to see sinister people meet grisly fates, but after it's done nothing has been fixed. There's just one more dead body to cart off.
The problem is that this involves establishing a new body of justice that has the power to determine a crime is "proved well enough" to strip the criminal of his right to the appeals process.
Presumably, you wouldn't be able to appeal any decisions by this super-court, that would sort of defeat the whole purpose.
I don't like that idea one bit.
edit: Oh hey, missed your edit.
I feel crimes like treason, should have always carry the death penalty, ditto with aiding the enemy. I don't think people should rot in jail either. Execute them within the year. This isn't about revenge, it's because these crimes are especially damaging to our nation. I also think the military should retain the ability to execute people.
Outside of that, get rid of it. It doesn't really accomplish anything. However I would say a prisoner should be able to choose between life in prison or death. If you want to die, you should have the right to go as you choose.
Yeah. I don't deny at all that it's completely unattainable.
As mentioned in [chat] though, I was listening to Lars Larson last night and pretty much everything he used to justify the death penalty was pretty heinous.
In fact, most families of victims nowadays prefer life imprisonment over the death penalty, and some even actively campaign against the execution of the killers, like Jeffrey Hill.
One of my favorite quotes:
Death penalty is also more expensive. It needs to be, or you can guarantee the execution of innocent people will occur at a substantially higher rate than it already does, and I will give you 1:1 odds that we are already executing innocent people.
Prisoners very rarely escape from prison. We're talking approaching 0% of the time. So the "must ensure it never happens again" argument is also disingenuous.
I'm sure there are other arguments pro-death penalty but I'm also sure they are dishonest.
Would you like to address the points of
1. Innocent people being put to death, and
2. The fact that it costs far more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life
o_O
...So, like, you're familiar with the McCarthy era, right? You'd have wanted all of those folks executed?
Because those crimes are more serious then any of the others. There is also an example that needs to be set. Certain war crimes and crimes against humanity, ie genocide, should also carry the death penalty.
I'm not against the system executing people. I just think the system is flawed in many cases and runs to high of a risk executing innocent people or bungling things up. That is not acceptable. In cases of crimes against humanity, and treason, we haven't convicted an innocent person.
And if you remove the death penalty, you are basically saying that it's no different, and no worse, then far lesser crimes. Which is sick.
This is in fact the opposite of true. That would be "false."
This.
Ideally for it, in most cases pragmatically against it. If there were some incontrovertible evidence of guilt, like a video of the murder, I would likely endorse its use in that instance (assuming the case meets all the other requirements of a capital crime).
Murder != executing someone within the confines of due process.
Is the state also hypocritical for making laws against theft while at the same time imposing taxes?
You and people who think like you frighten me far more than any murderer ever could.
This is why the wait times are so long. Or, at least in part.
But if someone dies while in prison for life let's say, or just happens to die while serving whatever time they have, it's the same thing. Later found to be innocent, and it can't be taken back in the sense of making it up to them in any way. Aside from clearing their name in the records.
Life is difficult.
This is the fault of a busted system. You're guilty, out back and shot. Done and done. Of course, I'm completely against doing this for any crimes other then the ones I listed.
I'm speaking of events in our life times. We've learned from the McCarthy era and since then we've been damn good about this. I don't see a problem here. Are you saying Ames and Hansen aren't guilty? There is mountains of evidence here.
Not to me, no. Now, I mean, if he'd been shot at the scene to protect the life of the attorney, I wouldn't really care - that's defending another person via force. I don't think any sane person would be opposed to that.
But murdering him decades after the fact out of spite is ridiculous to me.
Lime'd for win value.
So yeah. Kinda tricky to support.
Well, there's already a political movement trying to validate and lionize McCarthy, and I imagine there are a couple of "he got a bad rap and was actually a pretty good guy" posters around D&D.
But in general this attitude strikes me as remarkably foolhardy. You're aware that our system failed before, but you now assume that we've "learned our lesson" and it cannot fail again?
I dunno, I'd say some people really deserve to die.
But logistically there really isn't any way to implement a fair and functional death penalty.
Why don't we ever hang out
We should hang out more
Not quite the same thing, no. We release many people from prison, sometimes decades down the line, after we discover that they are innocent. With death penalty we do not get that option, period. Sure, the wait times are long, but that's not because we want to give enough time to make sure, but because the queues are so long.
Did anybody actually get convicted of it though. He spouted a lot of bullshit and accused people of stuff but who was convicted? Answer 0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_convicted_of_treason#United_States
So despite him being a raging asshole, nobody was convicted. So show me how the system failed.
I would like to reiterate that you and people who think like you are terrifying.
Talking to people like nstf and then going out into the real world is like going from Alien to Aliens
Oh god, there are lots of them
That I would have people shot if guilty of treason or crimes against humanity? Shoot them. How many people has the US ever convicted of treason. I put the link up before, you can look through it, there aren't many... and the big boo boo McCarthy managed to get a big fat 0 convicted. So I'm rather confident that in this case the system does work to convict the right people.
I also tend to trust the Hague to convict the proper people.
In these cases, I have no issue ushering them out of the court room to the designated area, and having the firing squad take them down.
Uh, it's that it can be the same thing. Someone on death row can be taken off it. Someone still serving their time can be taken out of prison.
When the sentences are finished, the guy on death row is dead and the guy released from prison after his 30 years lost 30 years of otherwise normal life. Finding out both of them were innocent all along after that, you can't quite make it up to either of them. How do you give someone 30 years back of their life (and, let alone you can't make it up to a dead person at all)?