The issue is that not every game needs 60fps. More than a few will do just fine as long as it says above 25. And besides, even games that would benefit from 60+ would still see a relatively small group of players for whom it was even remotely important.
Consistency is far more important than actually hitting 60, in my opinion.
I'll barely notice if a game is running at 30 FPS, but I will if it alternates between 30 and 45.
I do wonder if the average observer will be able to tell the difference between current-gen and next-gen graphics.
Kinect: Fuck it, let's not even pretend we are trying to appeal to those who already own a 360.
Is this a criticism? Or just a pointlessly snarky 'stating the obvious truth'?
Putting out a peripheral 5 years into a console's lifespan that doesn't have any attraction to the 40 million people that already own that console makes sense to you?
Huh.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Kinect: Fuck it, let's not even pretend we are trying to appeal to those who already own a 360.
Is this a criticism? Or just a pointlessly snarky 'stating the obvious truth'?
Putting out a peripheral 5 years into a console's lifespan that doesn't have any attraction to the 40 million people that already own that console makes sense to you?
Huh.
Yes?
I mean, this isn't hard to see. They're using Kinect to try and sell 360s to people that don't have them. That's obvious.
If they wanted to sweeten the pot for people who already own the 360, they wouldn't use motion control, something very few core 360 owners have ever asked for, to do it.
The issue is that not every game needs 60fps. More than a few will do just fine as long as it says above 25. And besides, even games that would benefit from 60+ would still see a relatively small group of players for whom it was even remotely important.
Consistency is far more important than actually hitting 60, in my opinion.
I'll barely notice if a game is running at 30 FPS, but I will if it alternates between 30 and 45.
I do wonder if the average observer will be able to tell the difference between current-gen and next-gen graphics.
Yes.
Though be aware, you're about to be met with a wave of anecdotes along the line of 'my friend can't tell the difference between a VHS and Blueray!'
The issue is that not every game needs 60fps. More than a few will do just fine as long as it says above 25. And besides, even games that would benefit from 60+ would still see a relatively small group of players for whom it was even remotely important.
Consistency is far more important than actually hitting 60, in my opinion.
I'll barely notice if a game is running at 30 FPS, but I will if it alternates between 30 and 45.
I do wonder if the average observer will be able to tell the difference between current-gen and next-gen graphics.
Yes.
Though be aware, you're about to be met with a wave of anecdotes along the line of 'my friend can't tell the difference between a VHS and Blueray!'
My friend can't tell the difference between cave paintings and Botticelli.
Kinect: Fuck it, let's not even pretend we are trying to appeal to those who already own a 360.
Is this a criticism? Or just a pointlessly snarky 'stating the obvious truth'?
Putting out a peripheral 5 years into a console's lifespan that doesn't have any attraction to the 40 million people that already own that console makes sense to you?
Huh.
Yes?
I mean, this isn't hard to see. They're using Kinect to try and sell 360s to people that don't have them. That's obvious.
If they wanted to sweeten the pot for people who already own the 360, they wouldn't use motion control, something very few core 360 owners have ever asked for, to do it.
Well, just because Kinect can't be sold to people that own a 360 doesn't mean they can sell it to people that don't have a 360.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Well, just because Kinect can't be sold to people that own a 360 doesn't mean they can sell it to people that don't have a 360.
Well, no, not necessarily. But if you sell a product one way and Group A buys it, and you want Group B to buy it, a good jumping off point would be to sell that product in some way different than the way that failed to attract Group B.
Will Kinect be successful in that regard? I've got my doubts, but it's obvious that's what they're going for.
Well, just because Kinect can't be sold to people that own a 360 doesn't mean they can sell it to people that don't have a 360.
Well, no, not necessarily. But if you sell a product one way and Group A buys it, and you want Group B to buy it, a good jumping off point would be to sell that product in some way different than the way that failed to attract Group B.
Will Kinect be successful in that regard? I've got my doubts, but it's obvious that's what they're going for.
Of course the missing part of the equation is a price that won't cause casuals to scamper off like deer catching a glimpse of something threatening.
Well, just because Kinect can't be sold to people that own a 360 doesn't mean they can sell it to people that don't have a 360.
Well, no, not necessarily. But if you sell a product one way and Group A buys it, and you want Group B to buy it, a good jumping off point would be to sell that product in some way different than the way that failed to attract Group B.
Will Kinect be successful in that regard? I've got my doubts, but it's obvious that's what they're going for.
Of course the missing part of the equation is a price that won't cause casuals to scamper off like deer catching a glimpse of something threatening.
Microsoft needs a price that causes casuals to be run over like deer catching a glimpse of a huge truck. Basically, I am saying it needs to be 599 dollars.
Yah as soon as you wave off existing 360 owners that means you have the little problem of getting people to buy a console + the price of Kinect. That seems kinda difficult when Kinect by itself is rumoured to only be $50 cheaper than a Wii.
Dritz on
There I was, 3DS: 2621-2671-9899 (Ekera), Wii U: LostCrescendo
Well, just because Kinect can't be sold to people that own a 360 doesn't mean they can sell it to people that don't have a 360.
Well, no, not necessarily. But if you sell a product one way and Group A buys it, and you want Group B to buy it, a good jumping off point would be to sell that product in some way different than the way that failed to attract Group B.
Will Kinect be successful in that regard? I've got my doubts, but it's obvious that's what they're going for.
Of course the missing part of the equation is a price that won't cause casuals to scamper off like deer catching a glimpse of something threatening.
They are also missing an online system that makes sense to someone not going to play hours of Halo/CoD every day or even every week. Oh and non-motion games that appeal to a broad audience.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
They are also missing an online system that makes sense to someone not going to play hours of Halo/CoD every day or even every week. Oh and non-motion games that appeal to a broad audience.
Are...are you serious? You think casuals care about online? Really?
And there's plenty on non-motion games that would appeal to a broad audience on the 360. They just don't have Mario characters.
It's like rational thought has just vanished. This is what that PA comic was about, that judging by core gamers' reactions to Kinect, it's like the device itself instills hate directly into the gamer.
Well, just because Kinect can't be sold to people that own a 360 doesn't mean they can sell it to people that don't have a 360.
Well, no, not necessarily. But if you sell a product one way and Group A buys it, and you want Group B to buy it, a good jumping off point would be to sell that product in some way different than the way that failed to attract Group B.
Will Kinect be successful in that regard? I've got my doubts, but it's obvious that's what they're going for.
Of course the missing part of the equation is a price that won't cause casuals to scamper off like deer catching a glimpse of something threatening.
Microsoft is hoping the price acts like the headlights of a car.
Yah as soon as you wave off existing 360 owners that means you have the little problem of getting people to buy a console + the price of Kinect. That seems kinda difficult when Kinect by itself is rumoured to only be $50 cheaper than a Wii.
There is the rumored 300 dollar bundle. I don't know if it is rumored to have a game or not. It is still 100 dollars more expensive than the Wii. Arguing that something offers more "value" hasn't really worked with casuals in the past. I doubt casuals calculate the price out much other than possibly price of online (though they probably don't care too much about this), price of a game if one is not included, and the base price for the hardware required to play the games. Arguing that you have to pay extra for an extra wiimote is like arguing you need to pay extra for a hard disk drive for the 360. True, but I doubt they care even if they do end up buying one for $texas.
Well, just because Kinect can't be sold to people that own a 360 doesn't mean they can sell it to people that don't have a 360.
Well, no, not necessarily. But if you sell a product one way and Group A buys it, and you want Group B to buy it, a good jumping off point would be to sell that product in some way different than the way that failed to attract Group B.
Will Kinect be successful in that regard? I've got my doubts, but it's obvious that's what they're going for.
Of course the missing part of the equation is a price that won't cause casuals to scamper off like deer catching a glimpse of something threatening.
Microsoft is hoping the price acts like the headlights of a car.
Great idiots think alike.
Current preorder prices for the games at various online retailers are 60 dollars. I wonder if MS is stupid enough to charge that for their games.
And there's plenty on non-motion games that would appeal to a broad audience on the 360. They just don't have Mario characters.
.....
....okay, I'll bite. What games are on the 360 now that would appeal to non-gamers that are the target audience of Kinect? Besides Uno (yes) and Lips (haha ).
And there's plenty on non-motion games that would appeal to a broad audience on the 360. They just don't have Mario characters.
.....
....okay, I'll bite. What games are on the 360 now that would appeal to non-gamers that are the target audience of Kinect? Besides Uno and Lips.
Rock Band, Guitar Hero, Viva Pinata, Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts, Sonic and Sega Racing, The Bigs, Sega Tennis, Backyard Football, a half-dozen Lego games, CSI games, DDR games, a dozen XBLA games, countless licensed games that sell depressingly well, etc.
There's a lot of stuff on the 360 that would appeal to a broad audience. You can say there's not enough exclusive stuff, but that's what they're trying to do with Kinect.
And there's plenty on non-motion games that would appeal to a broad audience on the 360. They just don't have Mario characters.
.....
....okay, I'll bite. What games are on the 360 now that would appeal to non-gamers that are the target audience of Kinect? Besides Uno (yes) and Lips (haha ).
And there's plenty on non-motion games that would appeal to a broad audience on the 360. They just don't have Mario characters.
.....
....okay, I'll bite. What games are on the 360 now that would appeal to non-gamers that are the target audience of Kinect? Besides Uno (yes) and Lips (haha ).
There are a decent number of XBLA games that would (ex: Hexic, Catan, etc) but otherwise, yeah, no one would buy a 360 just for those.
And there's plenty on non-motion games that would appeal to a broad audience on the 360. They just don't have Mario characters.
.....
....okay, I'll bite. What games are on the 360 now that would appeal to non-gamers that are the target audience of Kinect? Besides Uno (yes) and Lips (haha ).
Arguably too complex for Kinect's target audience.
Sonic and Sega Racing, The Bigs, Sega Tennis, Backyard Football, a half-dozen Lego games, CSI games, DDR games
Available on the cheaper Wii.
a dozen XBLA games
Well, that was vague.
There's a lot of stuff on the 360 that would appeal to a broad audience. You can say there's not enough exclusive stuff, but that's what they're trying to do with Kinect.
Yes, exactly! Unfortunately, this casual-friendly experience that's available nowhere else apparently costs far, far too much for casuals to pay.
So during a wrap-up article on E3, IGN mentioned that during the Circque du Soleil thing that mspencer is trying to forget about, somehow Microsoft snuck into journalist hotel rooms and put Kinect ads on their bathroom mirrors.
A little Google searching shows that the claim is apparently true:
Is it just me, or is there a set amount of batshit crazy in the industry, and when one company (Sony) starts shedding some of it, another company (in this case, Microsoft) has to absorb it?
Anywho, the Kinect looks increasingly like a project that started off with the best intentions, and the idea that motion controls + hd console = gangbusters. A console with the casual attracting power of the Wii, and the hardware to provide for the best hardcore games.
I think at some point between last E3 and this E3, Microsoft realized the tech just isn't going to be at where it needs to be, so they just said screw it: make it for casuals only, finish whatever launch software we have for it, and send it out to flounder.
Yes, exactly! Unfortunately, this casual-friendly experience that's available nowhere else apparently costs far, far too much for casuals to pay.
The original Wii cost $250 + $40-60 for each extra controller. I don't think a $300 Arcade + Kinect bundle or a $350 new black 360 + Kinect bundle is far, far too much for casuals.
Is it just me, or is there a set amount of batshit crazy in the industry, and when one company (Sony) starts shedding some of it, another company (in this case, Microsoft) has to absorb it?
We need a shitty company to absorb the batshit crazy. We had the Phantom last generation.
Couscous on
0
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Yes, exactly! Unfortunately, this casual-friendly experience that's available nowhere else apparently costs far, far too much for casuals to pay.
The original Wii cost $250 + $40-60 for each extra controller. I don't think a $300 Arcade + Kinect bundle or a $350 new black 360 + Kinect bundle is far, far too much for casuals.
...which would have been fine if it came out when the Wii first launched, but the Wii is now $200, with motion plus and two games. The bar has moved.
Yes, exactly! Unfortunately, this casual-friendly experience that's available nowhere else apparently costs far, far too much for casuals to pay.
The original Wii cost $250 + $40-60 for each extra controller. I don't think a $300 Arcade + Kinect bundle or a $350 new black 360 + Kinect bundle is far, far too much for casuals.
Do casuals actually think like that? Hell, do people here even really think like that outside of console warz?
Couscous on
0
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
So during a wrap-up article on E3, IGN mentioned that during the Circque du Soleil thing that mspencer is trying to forget about, somehow Microsoft snuck into journalist hotel rooms and put Kinect ads on their bathroom mirrors.
A little Google searching shows that the claim is apparently true:
Is it just me, or is there a set amount of batshit crazy in the industry, and when one company (Sony) starts shedding some of it, another company (in this case, Microsoft) has to absorb it?
Anywho, the Kinect looks increasingly like a project that started off with the best intentions, and the idea that motion controls + hd console = gangbusters. A console with the casual attracting power of the Wii, and the hardware to provide for the best hardcore games.
I think at some point between last E3 and this E3, Microsoft realized the tech just isn't going to be at where it needs to be, so they just said screw it: make it for casuals only, finish whatever launch software we have for it, and send it out to flounder.
Don't forget when Yamauchi retired and Sony started going off about working multiple jobs to pay for PS3, etc. :P
Yes, exactly! Unfortunately, this casual-friendly experience that's available nowhere else apparently costs far, far too much for casuals to pay.
The original Wii cost $250 + $40-60 for each extra controller. I don't think a $300 Arcade + Kinect bundle or a $350 new black 360 + Kinect bundle is far, far too much for casuals.
Historically $300 has been the "early adopter" price for consoles with sales increasing as the price goes below $200.
Anyway the problem for Kinect is that it doesn't have games that can make the splash that the Wii's games made, it just has games that are like the Wii's games.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Posts
Is this a criticism? Or just a pointlessly snarky 'stating the obvious truth'?
Given that Microsoft said there would be less-casual Kinect games available before E3, a little snark is warranted.
I'll barely notice if a game is running at 30 FPS, but I will if it alternates between 30 and 45.
I do wonder if the average observer will be able to tell the difference between current-gen and next-gen graphics.
Putting out a peripheral 5 years into a console's lifespan that doesn't have any attraction to the 40 million people that already own that console makes sense to you?
Huh.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Yes?
I mean, this isn't hard to see. They're using Kinect to try and sell 360s to people that don't have them. That's obvious.
If they wanted to sweeten the pot for people who already own the 360, they wouldn't use motion control, something very few core 360 owners have ever asked for, to do it.
Yes.
Though be aware, you're about to be met with a wave of anecdotes along the line of 'my friend can't tell the difference between a VHS and Blueray!'
My friend can't tell the difference between cave paintings and Botticelli.
Well, just because Kinect can't be sold to people that own a 360 doesn't mean they can sell it to people that don't have a 360.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
If it's one of us, then yes. If not, then quite possibly no.
Well, no, not necessarily. But if you sell a product one way and Group A buys it, and you want Group B to buy it, a good jumping off point would be to sell that product in some way different than the way that failed to attract Group B.
Will Kinect be successful in that regard? I've got my doubts, but it's obvious that's what they're going for.
Of course the missing part of the equation is a price that won't cause casuals to scamper off like deer catching a glimpse of something threatening.
Microsoft needs a price that causes casuals to be run over like deer catching a glimpse of a huge truck. Basically, I am saying it needs to be 599 dollars.
They are also missing an online system that makes sense to someone not going to play hours of Halo/CoD every day or even every week. Oh and non-motion games that appeal to a broad audience.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Are...are you serious? You think casuals care about online? Really?
And there's plenty on non-motion games that would appeal to a broad audience on the 360. They just don't have Mario characters.
It's like rational thought has just vanished. This is what that PA comic was about, that judging by core gamers' reactions to Kinect, it's like the device itself instills hate directly into the gamer.
Microsoft is hoping the price acts like the headlights of a car.
There is the rumored 300 dollar bundle. I don't know if it is rumored to have a game or not. It is still 100 dollars more expensive than the Wii. Arguing that something offers more "value" hasn't really worked with casuals in the past. I doubt casuals calculate the price out much other than possibly price of online (though they probably don't care too much about this), price of a game if one is not included, and the base price for the hardware required to play the games. Arguing that you have to pay extra for an extra wiimote is like arguing you need to pay extra for a hard disk drive for the 360. True, but I doubt they care even if they do end up buying one for $texas.
Great idiots think alike.
Current preorder prices for the games at various online retailers are 60 dollars. I wonder if MS is stupid enough to charge that for their games.
.....
....okay, I'll bite. What games are on the 360 now that would appeal to non-gamers that are the target audience of Kinect? Besides Uno and Lips.
Wait, what EA trap?
Also I don't own a PC so Steam would have been out of the question.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
Well I can't believe that they would really be dumb enough not to include a pack-in or to charge full price for Kinect games.
That's why I'm not 100% sure that they won't change the price.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
No, even worse.
Edit: Okay seriously someone said EA Trap is there something I should know before ordering this thing?
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
A ROCK BAND NON-BUYER!!! (dramatic sting)
You really make it too easy sometimes.
It's who I am.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
Rock Band, Guitar Hero, Viva Pinata, Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts, Sonic and Sega Racing, The Bigs, Sega Tennis, Backyard Football, a half-dozen Lego games, CSI games, DDR games, a dozen XBLA games, countless licensed games that sell depressingly well, etc.
There's a lot of stuff on the 360 that would appeal to a broad audience. You can say there's not enough exclusive stuff, but that's what they're trying to do with Kinect.
You're In the Movies
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
There are a decent number of XBLA games that would (ex: Hexic, Catan, etc) but otherwise, yeah, no one would buy a 360 just for those.
This deserves the laughing man.
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
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Add me!
Available on the cheaper Wii.
Arguably too complex for Kinect's target audience.
Available on the cheaper Wii.
Well, that was vague.
Yes, exactly! Unfortunately, this casual-friendly experience that's available nowhere else apparently costs far, far too much for casuals to pay.
Is it just me, or is there a set amount of batshit crazy in the industry, and when one company (Sony) starts shedding some of it, another company (in this case, Microsoft) has to absorb it?
Anywho, the Kinect looks increasingly like a project that started off with the best intentions, and the idea that motion controls + hd console = gangbusters. A console with the casual attracting power of the Wii, and the hardware to provide for the best hardcore games.
I think at some point between last E3 and this E3, Microsoft realized the tech just isn't going to be at where it needs to be, so they just said screw it: make it for casuals only, finish whatever launch software we have for it, and send it out to flounder.
One of the preorder things for the online retailer did mention a pack in game, but that might have just been them assuming MS wasn't retarded.
The original Wii cost $250 + $40-60 for each extra controller. I don't think a $300 Arcade + Kinect bundle or a $350 new black 360 + Kinect bundle is far, far too much for casuals.
Wired goes through several 3DS games.
Me want now!
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
...which would have been fine if it came out when the Wii first launched, but the Wii is now $200, with motion plus and two games. The bar has moved.
Do casuals actually think like that? Hell, do people here even really think like that outside of console warz?
Don't forget when Yamauchi retired and Sony started going off about working multiple jobs to pay for PS3, etc. :P
Historically $300 has been the "early adopter" price for consoles with sales increasing as the price goes below $200.
Anyway the problem for Kinect is that it doesn't have games that can make the splash that the Wii's games made, it just has games that are like the Wii's games.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)