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Simple Chemistry question [new question, 11pm EST]

urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old ManRegistered User regular
edited June 2010 in Help / Advice Forum
I'm working on a practice exam. I've got the answers to the practice but this one doesn't make sense:

Which of the following substances might be ionic?

a. HCl
b. NaCl
c. CH3Cl
d. NCl3
e. H2O

Now the answer is b, and the book says stuff about the cation and anions. Which says Na is +, and Cl is -. But what about HCl? Is Hydrogen that one "exception" to the rule? I thought H was +, so HCl should form the same ionic bond, right?

=======================

I'm stuck on another. I can't seem to find any information about this in the book or his slides, but he's got it on the practice exam. This makes me worry.

It says:

The predicted product of the reaction of Li and N2 is:

a. LiN
b. Li2N
c. Li3N
d. Li2N2
e. Li2N3

The answer is C, but I don't know why. I N has -3 charge, and Li has +1. Which means you need 3 Li to make it balance with N... But how do you go from N2 to nothing?

I'm worried about this one because there are 4 of these questions in a row. The next one makes less sense to me, since one is a transition metal.

The predicted product of the reaction of Al and O2 is: Al2O3 How does that make sense??

urahonky on

Posts

  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Its been a long while since I took chemistry, but couldn't you get better guesses by checking the electronegativities?

    Al_wat on
  • urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    The wha? I was checking to see if they were balanced, if that's what you mean. But an ionic bond was two elements I thought. So CH3Cl is out. And the rest weren't balanced.

    urahonky on
  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Again I might be wrong since its been so long since I took chem...

    But each type of atom has an "electronegativity" value, and you can use these to figure out if a compound will be ionic or will have covalent bonds.

    Since I've forgotten how I'm searching google so I can maybe give you better advice.

    Al_wat on
  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Ok. I found a good resource.
    What is electronegativity

    Definition

    Electronegativity is a measure of the tendency of an atom to attract a bonding pair of electrons.

    The Pauling scale is the most commonly used. Fluorine (the most electronegative element) is assigned a value of 4.0, and values range down to caesium and francium which are the least electronegative at 0.7.

    Summary

    *

    No electronegativity difference between two atoms leads to a pure non-polar covalent bond.
    *

    A small electronegativity difference leads to a polar covalent bond.
    *

    A large electronegativity difference leads to an ionic bond.

    You can find tables with electronegativity values pretty easily. Also the actual link has diagrams and stuff to explain it better.

    Does this make it any easier or is this total gibberish to you? Seems like unless you have been taught to memorize if certain compounds are ionic or not, you should at least have heard of this before.

    Al_wat on
  • urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Ah hah! I missed this phrase:

    "Ionic bonds occur between a metal and non-metal." Which would make HCl wrong. I guess that's the easiest way to tell?

    urahonky on
  • urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Ah yeah that doesn't make sense to me. This is General Chemistry 1, and we're only on chapter 2 so far. :P

    urahonky on
  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Ahh ok. Well, you will definitely hear of electronegativity, probably soon.

    And honestly, based on the amount of chem I have taken in my life, albeit like ~5+ years ago, I should know the answer for sure but... i would think HCl would be ionic as well, but it might be because its an acid and there is some funky stuff that goes along with that which makes it not ionic. Or not as ionic.

    However NaCl would be MORE ionic, so would be the correct answer to the question.

    Al_wat on
  • urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Ahh yeah I guess that makes sense. :) Thanks for the heads up Al_wat, cheers!

    urahonky on
  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    no problem man!

    Al_wat on
  • Butler For Life #1Butler For Life #1 Twinning is WinningRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    As Al-wat said, this will all make a bit more sense once you hear about electronegativity.

    I could give you a brief explanation, if you want.

    Butler For Life #1 on
  • urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    No worries. Just studying for an exam tomorrow. Once I take the exam I forget everything that I studied. :P I'll learn it when it comes to it.

    I hate gen-ed classes so much.

    urahonky on
  • Butler For Life #1Butler For Life #1 Twinning is WinningRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Good luck on your exam!

    Butler For Life #1 on
  • urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Thanks! Few more hours then I have to go to bed. The problem is I have a class before it, and the class is 3 hours of French. So I'm sure that'll warp anything I've studied.

    urahonky on
  • urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Had to update. Hopefully you guys haven't gone to bed yet. I wish his powerpoint slides weren't so very useless.

    urahonky on
  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    H-Cl has a heavily polarised covalent bond, rather than an ionic bond. Hydrogen is an odd duck, yeah.

    ronya on
    aRkpc.gif
  • CauldCauld Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    N2 is simply the molecular form of N (since its a gas), whereas Li can be only 1 atom, since its a metal.

    Edit: If you were to write the chemical equation it would be 6Li +N2 -> 2Li3N

    Cauld on
  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    urahonky wrote: »
    I'm working on a practice exam. I've got the answers to the practice but this one doesn't make sense:

    Which of the following substances might be ionic?

    a. HCl
    b. NaCl
    c. CH3Cl
    d. NCl3
    e. H2O

    Now the answer is b, and the book says stuff about the cation and anions. Which says Na is +, and Cl is -. But what about HCl? Is Hydrogen that one "exception" to the rule? I thought H was +, so HCl should form the same ionic bond, right?

    =======================

    I'm stuck on another. I can't seem to find any information about this in the book or his slides, but he's got it on the practice exam. This makes me worry.

    It says:

    The predicted product of the reaction of Li and N2 is:

    a. LiN
    b. Li2N
    c. Li3N
    d. Li2N2
    e. Li2N3

    The answer is C, but I don't know why. I N has -3 charge, and Li has +1. Which means you need 3 Li to make it balance with N... But how do you go from N2 to nothing?

    I'm worried about this one because there are 4 of these questions in a row. The next one makes less sense to me, since one is a transition metal.

    The predicted product of the reaction of Al and O2 is: Al2O3 How does that make sense??

    It says N2 because the molecular form of pure nitrogen is N2. So: N2. If you want to be picky and balance both sides, it would be 2 Li3N.

    Aluminum oxide is a tricky one. At a gen-ed level you might be able to get away with waving your hands and saying that aluminium is a cation with +3 charge and oxygen an anion with -2 charge and therefore we have an ionic bond of 4Al + 3O2 -> 2 Al2O3. But technically speaking this is wholly wrong and aluminum oxide has a strongly covalent character.

    ronya on
    aRkpc.gif
  • urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    So would Oxygen gain an atom every time, but Nitrogen loses one every time? I don't see the correlation on how you figure that out.

    urahonky on
  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Oxygen is -2, and aluminium +3, so the only way to balance it is +6 and -6. So Al2O3.

    Lithium and nitrogen can be balanced with +3 and -3.

    It's basically a big game of making both sides add up to a whole number at this level. :P Find the lowest common multiple of the two charges.

    ronya on
    aRkpc.gif
  • urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    So how did you know Al is +3? I thought Metals were random?

    http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~imamura/122/images/periodic_table.gif

    Al looks very light blue, are those special cases? I can't seem to find a name other than "metals".

    urahonky on
  • DibsDibs Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Metals are a bit tricky. It's been a while for me, but I think it has something to do with the orbitals/valence electrons. It will be covered in later chapters.

    If that's wrong I apologize - I just have most of the common metals memorized (Zn2+, Fe 2+/3+, etc.)

    Dibs on
  • DibsDibs Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
  • urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Ahhh okay I see now. Sweet. I hope this helps me on the exam!! I need some sleep now though. It's been a long, long day.

    urahonky on
  • urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Bookmarked. I'll look at it before going to French. Thanks!

    urahonky on
  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    (yeah, this is why I said that what I said was technically wrong)

    Think about it like this. Consider this table: the periodic table stretched out. You can see that the lathanides and actinides which are usually pulled out to a lower section are analagous to the transition metals for the higher periods. Likewise, you can imagine also removing the transition groups to form a periodic table that might look like this in the first three periods:

    smalltable.png

    At this point we handwave a lot and say that aluminum can be counted from the left (so to speak) which suggests a +3 charge.

    Further down the periodic table the metals do indeed start becoming weirder; aluminum itself does have +1 and +2 oxidation states (for that matter, even sodium and magnesium have a number of oxidation states). But +3 is the most stable one. The first few periods tend to have simpler behaviors.

    ronya on
    aRkpc.gif
  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I'm probably skipping ahead a bit, but what happens is that each atom in a molecule tries to achieve a state most resembling the electron count of a noble gas. So Nitrogen shares 3 bonds because that gives it access to 3 extra electrons (gets to 8, Neon), and Chlorine shares 1 bond for 1 extra (Gets to 18 Argon).

    Now if the atoms are all on the rightside of the periodic table, chances are it's a valence bond (electrons are shared evenly), but if it's a mix between left and right the sharing it's probably an ionic bond (the electrons are shared unevenly).

    Hydrogen is a special case, because in this (very simplified) explanation, it can lose or gain 1 electron to bond either way (And can thus be both ionic or valence very easily).

    Deep down the periodic table these rules tend to break down a bit.

    SanderJK on
    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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