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Peter's Cartoons and Daily Drawings
PeterAndCompany
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Hey folks. Been awhile since I last made a thread (about a year or two) so I figured I'd jump in again and throw down some stuff I've been working on. Some of this is more recent than others -- since it's been so long since I posted -- but I still thought I'd share to get some critiques on the direction I'm taking things.
With Peter & Company, I wanted to try and speed things up a bit with the production of each page. One of the suggestions I was given at my 45-hour grad review was to focus more on the spot blacks, putting more emphasis on the line art of the pages instead of relying on the grayscale shading. I decided to give it a shot, and actually have found that it sped up the production time quite a bit. I end up inking for an additional hour or so, but not having to add Photoshop shading also helps me keep the comic in a more traditional feel, which I like.
For comparison purposes, an older page vs. a more recent one (spoiler'd for size):
I'm pretty happy with the straight black & white, but it's hardly set in stone as to the final look. Any critiques or thoughts on how to improve things are absolutely welcome!
For Ademar, admittedly most of the work I've done has been in the scripting/writing area, since I had all the conceptual work done for awhile now. I've decided to use Ustream broadcasts to start cranking out art again for the series, and the first few pieces were turnarounds and sketches for the main characters, refining costumes and whatnot.
"Sullivan," an expendable villain who doesn't make it past the first issue:
Costume/character refinement for Emperor Ademar:
For his costume, I wanted to really push the "Embrace of nature" that is pretty much the theme of their entire society (the castle is a massive treehouse, homes are built out of plants and earth, etc.), so I incorporated living plant life into Ademar's robe. His crown is also an arrangement of roots and branches in the style of a set of antlers. Here's a turnaround:
Lily and Buckley haven't changed too much since most people last saw them in my previous posts (unless you missed the part where I completely slimmed down the characters in several key areas, particularly with Lily). Their turnarounds are coming along pretty well, but I still have some work to do with them:
Lily, looking like a Ninja Turtle:
Buckley, kinda casually-posed:
Lily's shoulders and balance look a bit off, so I'll be fixing that before I ink. There's also a back pose to Buckley's (I usually do side, 3/4, front and back) which hasn't been inked yet. Additionally there's also a turnaround that is 75% inked for Advisor Kimodo, which I just haven't had a chance to scan in yet. I'll add that to a later post.
Lastly, I've started up a daily drawing webshow through Ustream. Originally I was just broadcasting every Sunday for the production of each P&C page, but I decided to push it up to a daily thing just to get myself into a regular drawing habit. The site linked in my sig is the main hub for the show if anyone's interested in checking it out sometime. I have schedules set up a week in advance with topics that will be covered, and I let the viewers sway the direction of the show each time. The majority of what I end up drawing are requests from people in the chat room. It's a freakin' blast, and keeps me motivated when I have someone constantly looking over my shoulder.
I'll try to keep this thread updated each evening as I produce more work on the webshow (along with updating the actual site as well). So expect to see more from me on a regular basis for a change.
With Peter & Company, I wanted to try and speed things up a bit with the production of each page. One of the suggestions I was given at my 45-hour grad review was to focus more on the spot blacks, putting more emphasis on the line art of the pages instead of relying on the grayscale shading. I decided to give it a shot, and actually have found that it sped up the production time quite a bit. I end up inking for an additional hour or so, but not having to add Photoshop shading also helps me keep the comic in a more traditional feel, which I like.
For comparison purposes, an older page vs. a more recent one (spoiler'd for size):
I'm pretty happy with the straight black & white, but it's hardly set in stone as to the final look. Any critiques or thoughts on how to improve things are absolutely welcome!
For Ademar, admittedly most of the work I've done has been in the scripting/writing area, since I had all the conceptual work done for awhile now. I've decided to use Ustream broadcasts to start cranking out art again for the series, and the first few pieces were turnarounds and sketches for the main characters, refining costumes and whatnot.
"Sullivan," an expendable villain who doesn't make it past the first issue:
Costume/character refinement for Emperor Ademar:
For his costume, I wanted to really push the "Embrace of nature" that is pretty much the theme of their entire society (the castle is a massive treehouse, homes are built out of plants and earth, etc.), so I incorporated living plant life into Ademar's robe. His crown is also an arrangement of roots and branches in the style of a set of antlers. Here's a turnaround:
Lily and Buckley haven't changed too much since most people last saw them in my previous posts (unless you missed the part where I completely slimmed down the characters in several key areas, particularly with Lily). Their turnarounds are coming along pretty well, but I still have some work to do with them:
Lily, looking like a Ninja Turtle:
Buckley, kinda casually-posed:
Lily's shoulders and balance look a bit off, so I'll be fixing that before I ink. There's also a back pose to Buckley's (I usually do side, 3/4, front and back) which hasn't been inked yet. Additionally there's also a turnaround that is 75% inked for Advisor Kimodo, which I just haven't had a chance to scan in yet. I'll add that to a later post.
Lastly, I've started up a daily drawing webshow through Ustream. Originally I was just broadcasting every Sunday for the production of each P&C page, but I decided to push it up to a daily thing just to get myself into a regular drawing habit. The site linked in my sig is the main hub for the show if anyone's interested in checking it out sometime. I have schedules set up a week in advance with topics that will be covered, and I let the viewers sway the direction of the show each time. The majority of what I end up drawing are requests from people in the chat room. It's a freakin' blast, and keeps me motivated when I have someone constantly looking over my shoulder.
I'll try to keep this thread updated each evening as I produce more work on the webshow (along with updating the actual site as well). So expect to see more from me on a regular basis for a change.
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I don't really buy the emperors costume. I think it's a little odd that he's wearing fur. The twigs/branches don't scream royalty to me. Couldn't any peasant grab some shrubbery and wrap it around themselves? I would think he would be wearing something rare/precious, even if it has to be something organic. Like some rare flowers or feathers, something that wouldn't be accessible to a normal being.
your inking has improved, but for form and stuff, i mean... look at the duck in panel 4, look at how long those arms would have to be
look at him again down in the second last panel... what the hell is going on with his eyes?
the foot on the bunny turnaround is awkward and flat
this stuff honestly, and not trying to hurt your feelings here i'm being honest and hopefully helpful... looks exactly like the stuff you were posting 2 years ago.
i think that if you seriously want to improve you need to make a conscious effort to work on your construction, silhouette and proportions of your character work.
A lot of this IS on the same level skill-wise as the last time I posted. As I mentioned in the chat thread, most of what I've been working on the past year or so has just been a focus on cranking out new material rather than consciously pushing myself to improve on weaker areas. Granted that I should always be doing that, but I had reached a point where I just felt I needed to get stuff done, so I've been working on writing the scripts and getting myself to a place where I can get started on the grind.
This also is my attempt at getting back to where I was before; I'm on the tail end of recovering from a health problem that has kept me from being able to draw for the past three months. Whenever this happens (as it has several times in the past decade), I always find myself having to play catch-up in terms of my artistic stability. Only just this past weekend I was finally able to hold a brush steady enough to ink a solid line. Looking at the anatomy on the turnarounds I can see all kinds of flaws and crap (I intentionally didn't scan the original sketch of Lily's turnaround pose because it was just so awful), and it frustrates the hell out of me, yes.
So you're not hurting my feelings, not in the least. I know I've always had a problem with spongey anatomy and whatnot. It's something I've had to work past, and I know it still plagues me a bit (particularly with P&C, where in my head I'm thinking "cartoony = rubbery," which is my old way of thinking and really shouldn't be the case). Then it always gets worse when I'm unable to draw for months on end. I really should use this daily drawing schedule to start working more on fixing this underlying problem and see where my art goes from there.
(on a related note, I also need to break out of the mentality of thinking that I can ONLY either work on new material, or work to improve trouble areas -- it's entirely possible to do both at the same time. It's about time I start producing the first pages of Ademar, but at the same time I want the anatomy to be fixed... maybe I'll just start running with it and see how things go.)
Also: Seth's eyes in the second-to-last panel were actually just an inking error on my part. In the pencils they were looking the same direction. If I ink something wrong I'll typically just leave it in unless it's a massive spill/smudge.
I like your designs though... If I have time, I hope you won't mind if I do a little tweaking with them. I'll post them later tonight if I can.
Wanna draw humanoids with animal heads? Grab a copy of Blacksad, if you haven't already (some of Adenar's head poses make me think you might have seen this before), and study the helloutofit. That goes for EVERYONE. (Naw, but it's a fun series; basically a noir comic with humans with gorgeously drawn animal heads). You might have to search a bit, but if there's a big comic book store that knows their stuff near you, they could probably tell you where to find it. At least one of the volumes is in English.
For the record, I like the Emperor's fashion sense.
I actually prefer the art in your comic strips to these stiff turnarounds; maybe it's because they are outside of any story context. Your version of Sullivan's pose (I didn't do anything wrong) has some acting stuff in it that's better than mine, I think, but you just need to simplify your shapes. Draw using only straight lines if you have to, but don't worry about inking until you have your roughs down because obviously inking is something you're already good at.
-Place your feet properly on the ground.
-Make every line count.
-Simplify your shapes.
-Be conscious of the "flow" of energy through the drawing.
Drew in Ademar's anatomy because it was hard to tell what was going on under his clothes. Maybe you can avoid this step once you've figured out how he's put together, but again, you should concentrate on the basics before the details.
You're stuff has a lot of character in it though, which is very good, so make your technique worthy of the drawing's personality. Hope the visuals help explain what I can't say in words...
I'm definitely a fan of Blacksad. I have the first two books already, and the third just was released in a hardcover collection (with the other two in one big volume. I'm trying to find it in stores, but I may just have to buy it online. I freakin' love the series, it's some of the best animal character artwork in recent years.
And wow... thanks so much for the visuals, man. That is a HUGE help. I realize I haven't been thinking about the central action line of each pose (and looking at what I'm about to post below, I realize that's already a critique I expect to get again with these...). I'll try focusing the entire pose around it and see how that turns out with the other characters. I LOVE the look you gave Ademar, but admittedly I'm trying to make the series lean more towards a realistic style (again, inspired by Blacksad, which isn't very cartoony), which might explain why the poses in the turnarounds are more static. I think I need to make it more of a happy medium and should probably let up on the realism just a bit. It might not fit the art style as well as I'd hoped.
So yes! More sketches from tonight's show. I'm starting a redesign of the P&C cast page, since all the artwork on there is over five years old. I also have a cool idea in mind for a layout for that section, so this will be my recurring project for the next couple weeks. Here are the first three:
Peter (cat) and Seth (duck):
Iggy (gecko) and Skin (snake):
Whitney (cat, Peter's love interest):
Altogether I have 10 images total I'll be drawing, inking, and coloring over the next couple weeks. I plan on doing more sketches over the next couple days.
Thanks so much again for the written/visual help, Jack. That seriously will help put me on track with things.
10 minutes on google looking up kenjitsu or kendo will get you at least an inkling of understanding. Pay attention to their hands/arms, their feet, and their backs.
A katana is a 'loaded' weapon. People expect to see the wielder to be a master swordsmen, both in skills and attitude. Which means you have to know how to portray that at least to some degree. Even if your readers can't identify exactly whats wrong with your poses, they will be able to tell that SOMETHING is wrong, because they don't evoke the same calm, centered, calculated and precise poses and movements theyve seen in every samurai movie/comic/videogame ever made.
http://eddieble.deviantart.com/
I'm not pushing aside your advice at all; I definitely see what you're saying with it and understand how important it is to make these things authentic. If I hadn't done "basic research" with as long as I've been drawing Ademar, I'd have no business even trying to attempt this stuff. Hell, I have a bookshelf full of volumes on asian weaponry/fighting techniques and an $800 daito for reference. I can draw a more traditional samurai pose for her if you'd like to see how she looks when she actually knows what to do with it (which would be much later on down the line in terms of the story, so I'd likely draw her older as well).
Eddie: It's more like "the disease I've been fighting for the past ten years." Ended up in the hospital with a seizure and another fight with pancreatitis, went through crap with meds I had been on for a couple years that were kicking my ass (but are completely gone and out of my system now, thank God), and found myself yet again unable to even draw a decent sketch let alone get any finished inking done. Par for the course for me every couple years, it seems.
My suggestion is to slow down. Take the time with one character to really work on all the parts. Draw the construction, then do it again but then actually sketch on it so you can see the parts layered and seperate. something more like this Level of carefulness and not just faint lines. I mean, turn around are supposed to really give you that strong reference to refer back to, not just be a pretty drawing.
You're feet need planting, and also more confident structure. It just doesn't seem like you are seeing them through. Your eyes feel flat on the head, rather than convex and sunken in. And your cloth folds seem uninformed, especially this last batch of pants.
And here's hoping your health gets better. It sucks having to deal with physical stuff when trying to get art out of your head onto paper/computer/whatever.
As I scrolled down I became less enthused by each successive image. I think a lot of your problems stem from being unconvincing at rendering these animals as humans, but I'm sure your working on that.
Those are some really nice drawovers AJ. Really nice.
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Just some quick clarification here: pages 2-4 take place inside the castle, which also is overgrown with various plant life -- grass and dirt flooring, trees and moss lining the walls amidst architectural structures, etc. This will be hard to tell at first since this scene also takes place at night (during a thunderstorm), but it will become clearer since later scenes give a clearer view of the interiors.
I've been keeping in mind the concept of portraying these characters with a much more exaggerated action line to make their poses more animated and less static/boring. I'm always going to be working on my anatomy and portrayal of these characters, and I really think it will improve just as I continue to draw them more and more. Right now I'm happy enough with where I'm at skill-wise to break out of development limbo and start producing the pages of the comic. I know it's not perfect yet, but no one said you had to be the best before you should start cranking out material. So by all means, please keep telling me where to improve. I need to know these things.
(also, @McGibs: hopefully these few pages help clarify my reason for not making Lily's fighting stance a traditional Kendo/Samurai pose. She really has a long way to go in the comic before she gains the confidence to fight properly with a sword.)
I'll be inking and finishing these pages in ink wash/watercolors after this point (sort of keeping them in an assembly line) to test my speed with producing a finished product. This hopefully will let me get a rough estimate on a release date for the first issue of the comic.
when i think "threatening pose" i definitely don't think "hands down in front of crotch"
up in a choking pose, or just extended and looming over her would read as more threatening
as it is, i am definitely having a hard time imagining anyone holding their hands down at crotch/side-level while yelling in someone's face
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If it's really that big of a deal I can redraw it to include his hands (or adjust the forearms to be more towards his belly/chest, though if you follow the lines his hands right now are more towards his knees than his crotch) just to dissuade any perverse misinterpretations, although really I think it moreso just depends on the mind of viewer. You can twist anything into something sexual.
As for the attacker's pose, I think narrativly it would flow better if his arms were raised aggresivly. It implies him weakening over time, starting off strong, yelling in her face, then finally succumbing to the wound.
Right now, it reads like he's already quit, then coming back up to strong, then weakening again. It's a legit sequence, but I don't think it's as suspenseful or interesting to the reader.
Few nitpicks: Bear guy's left arm in page3 panel3 is reaaaaly long. Also, most of the hands are overly detailed, making them look wrinkled and old. Don't draw in the knuckles and tendons and pads, theyre much too defined.
With the second page, I think I will rework the arm positioning a bit. I see what you mean about the slight hiccup in the mood, even if it is more realistic to have the initial shock of being stabbed (and THAT honestly makes more sense for changing it than "he looks like he's grabbing his crotch"). I can raise his arms up in a threatening pose and still convey that he's in a crap-ton of pain. I'll probably rescan just that panel once it's fixed to make sure everything's good before I ink it.
Also, I forgot to mention it (in case anyone was wondering): Lily's word balloons are going to remain empty in the fourth page. I want to convey her trembling while breathing heavily.
This is kind of odd. If I was reading a graphic novel and came across that, I would assume a publishing/printing error or something, especially with how normal the word balloons look. I think a "pant" sound effect would work fine, even though it's sort of cartoony.
Yeah. I was considering making the word balloons somewhat transparent (or darkening them with ink wash) to show that they're not intended to hold words. I'll mess around with it and see if I can make it read a bit better.
And yep, I saw that tangent as well recently. I'll fix the trees on the inset panel to break it before I do the inking.
But anyways, I like what you've done here storyboard wise, it seems to hit all the right spots. However, to me, it seems like the beginning would have more tension if there was a page buildup before she stabs old crotchy, because you just start reading the comic and shit has already happened that might have been cool to actually see happen.
Othewise I really like what I see so far.
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I think your expressions are going the right direction, but you dont seem to have control over the dimension in their faces. I think it could be easily fixed by laying down more thoughtful lines of construction. Her eyes are going up and down and spreading apart, but not adhering to a structure. It'll help the believability of your exaggeration to have a more solid build up.
These aren't perfect, expression wise, but I think they illustrate my point.
In the meantime, I finished painting the first page. Took me about four hours' total work time to get the ink wash and watercolors down. Altogether this means a total production time of around 8 hours for a single page. I figure if this comic becomes my full-time job sometime down the road, I'll be able to whip out an issue a little over once a month (giving myself a few off-days); but seeing as I already HAVE a full-time job, it'll probably take closer to two months. Regardless, a bimonthly publishing rate for a solo project is still pretty decent. MARK YOUR CALENDARS. hehe
Anywho, here's the page:
It did get a little muddy on the right side, but it's hard to pull off some good, solid darks with ink wash without it turning a bit gritty.
This panel is really cool because it shows that if you can keep working on your characters and their faces a little more to get them up to the same level as your environments, your stuff will really be looking great.
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While I can understand your explanation and everything, I think you should really try to push yourself to make your characters have more solid basal structures. If your underlying sketch-marks are any indication, it seems that you essentially just stick-figure your characters in, and then go straight to smaller details. It's like you're completely skipping the middle steps. Even drawing a standing human figure and maybe a dog once or twice a week (from reference) I think could end up helping you a lot (if you absorb what you're doing, of course, rather than just focusing on copying the picture).
I think that'd be often enough where it wouldn't burn you out, and you could keep it up...and because it wouldn't be an overwhelming amount of information all at once (but rather, small bits over time) I think it might stick with you even better, even through your drawing hiatuses...so you wouldn't have this whole "reverting back" issue you mentioned before. I honestly think I've learned a lot more when I've picked up small things over a long period of time, than I have in really intense, short bursts of learning (like during a single 2-week assignment in school, for instance. It's all in the repetition!
And on the subject of consistency, I personally do not like the font you're using. Or are you writing it yourself? It looks like some of the letters lean, and some don't. And it doesn't look intentional.
That watercolour page looks better than everything else you've posted. (:
You've been around the AC long enough to know that the one thing any of us find ourselves repeating the most often has to do with working on anatomy. It's redundant and not always the most fun, but it helps. Otherwise we wouldn't push it so much. (:
Your character work has a lot of expression and intent behind it, it's just the structure that's throwing everyone off. Personally I think if you're going to have one or the other, personality is preferable especially if there's a story being told, but there's no reason you can't have both. And it's not like you'll lose anything if you try to concentrate more on anatomy until you improve.
I liked the empty word balloons. I think it conveys what you're going for. What's with the krakka thoom in the last page? Did he fall over twice or something?
Why are these characters animals?
This is my number one question; why are these characters animals? Nothing I'm seeing presented really takes advantage of the fact you are using animals--nothing in way of design, personality or story. Granted, I'm not being presented with a whole lot of story at the moment, and would let that slide, but the big one for me are the character designs. Nothing takes any conscious advantage of each characters designated animal. Instead, they are all just essentially humans with animal heads.
I think that's really limiting what you are doing both from a Story standpoint and from an artistic one.
I encourage you to ask yourself this same question: why are they animals? Lily is--and correct me if I'm remembering incorrectly--a panda, but looking at her character design, there is nothing about it that says "PANDA!", nor can I really see any Story reason for her being one. Instead, she's just a slim figure with a vaguely animal face--this is why they look like furries!
As an outside observer, I think the reason you are running into such "spongy anatomy" is because of this nebulous zone you find your characters designs in. If you're going to use human anatomy, then work with human characters so you know how to fix the things you are doing incorrectly. But if you are going to use animal designs, then I highly encourage you to not only ask yourself why they are animals, and then really push those character designs to reflect the animals you've chosen. That means not just animal personalities but also reflected in their anatomy designs.
Dreamworks' stuff is really hit & miss with me, but if you look at Kung Fu Panda, I think this really embodies everything I'm saying.
Hell, even the villagers are made with this in mind: The village is populated by ducks, pigs and geese. They look meager, vulnerable and distinctly not powerful. The neat aspect of Po's character design is watching him go from fitting in visually with the villagers to fitting in strong and powerful with the Furious Five.
It's clear the Storytellers gave a lot of thought into their use of animal characters in KFP, and unless you're going to do the same with your series, I would recommend just making the characters human instead of this nebulous half-breed design you have now.
Y'know, I get the feeling we've been down this road before.
Because we were. Four years ago. On the Gangbunch forums, when everyone took a huge collective shit all over my senior project, which consisted of eight test pages I had done of Ademar at the time.
Y'know what effect that had on me? It completely drove me from those forums and threw me into a self-doubting exodus where I was questioning my reasoning behind the designs of my own characters. I went through at LEAST a half-dozen redesigns of everything from the environments to the main cast -- even - PER YOUR SUGGESTION HERE - making them human for awhile, which 100% of the people who followed my work agreed was a horrible, horrible change. Ultimately it has come to the version it's at now, and not only am I happy with how the characters are, but I've come to a good understanding as to why it is what it is.
You want to know why they're animals? Because I want them to be. Cartoon animals have been an archetype of character design ever since the dawn of cartooning, and there doesn't always have to be some sort of plot or scientific explanation as to WHY they're animals. Something doesn't HAVE to be human if there's no logical explanation for it to be otherwise, and it's this "OMG IT'S A FURRY" mentality that people -- yourself included -- that is hurting the idea of the cartoon animal. You all have built it up to be this horrible taboo to have an anthropomorphic animal character, and it's freaking annoying.
Yes, Lily doesn't have the typical characteristics of a panda. Specifically, she's not overweight. Want to know why? Because her mother wasn't a panda, she was a rodent servant girl who worked in the castle, so she inherited that aspect from her. Yes, this is written into the story, and yes it is explained. You think it's furry? Maybe it is a little bit, but y'know what? That's likely to be my target audience, so if you really can't stand my characters being animals, then I guess I can assume you won't be reading the finished book.
Look, I'm not going to go down this road again. I went through this already four years ago and I'm not about to remind myself why I stopped posting on those forums, nor do I want that same association here. If this is going to get dragged on for another four pages with people getting into rants about "furry this" and "sexualization that" and not actually giving me critiques that I need like pretty much everyone else who has commented in this thread so far then you can just lock this thread right now and save us all the pain of witnessing another train wreck.
To everyone else, thanks so much for taking the time to offer comments and critiques -- I'll respond proper to them later tonight when I get the chance.
To use another example (and it's a movie I don't think is good, but still a good example): Cars. Pixar chose to use cars as characters. And when they did so, they implemented the typical characteristics of cars into the characters themselves - the protagonist is a race car, he's dynamic and brightly colored, and his personality reflects it. On the other hand is Mater - a rusted old tow truck. His personality also reflects his appearance and the nature of him being a car. He's old, he coughs and sputters, and - as you might imagine a talking tow truck to be - he's not very smart.
You should look at the animals you choose and see what characteristics of those animals you can implement. Perhaps design a character's personality before you choose his or her appearance?
If you want them to be animals, why do your characters designs not reflect that choice better? I'm not asking you to drop the science of interspecies genetics on me to explain away this-or-that. I agree that cartoon animals have been a long standing archetype, and without need for explanation why, because in most cases they take full advantage of the animal traits they are imbuing their character with and the "why" is answered thus.
I don't think making them human is the answer, which is also why I don't think making them human--but with animal heads--is the answer either.
Zambiemambie understands what I'm getting at, so maybe I should reparse the question to ask, "If you are going to go with animals, why are you not pushing the designs more to reflect that decision?"
With shows such as Tom & Jerry and most anything involving Mickey Mouse, I never get that vibe. It always just seems like animals doing things that animals would not usually do, while still having the basic characteristics of their real-world counterpart. That is what I think of when I hear "cartoon animals". They're basically normal animals with opposable thumbs and the ability to speak, as well as to walk on their hind legs.
That's just my opinion, though. And I still think you're a cool dude with a lot of talent, so don't take it personally.
EDIT: I left out another great example of "cartoon animals": Looney Tunes.
For example!
Blacksad is a brilliant series, and is essentially Human-Bodied-Animal-Heads, however, I would argue it's the creators mastery of anatomy that allows him to make that work. But more importantly, when posing the same question to Blacksad, all one needs to do is read Arctic Nation to understand and the choice is clear.
EDIT UNO: Good lord MKR, the Animaniacs were supposed to be dogs!??
EDIT DOS: haha, Mars.
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A dog. Like the Warner Brothers and their sister Dot.