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Military "internship"?
VeritasVR
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I got an email on my university account for a summer program called the Platoon Leader's Class. From what the email told me, it's a training program for Marine officers also called the Officer Commision School. Normally I wouldn't bother with such things, since I am looking for an internship in engineering for the summer before my senior year.
But I kept reading. It's a 10-week summer program for college juniors, just like an internship. Room and board paid, $4000 stipend with possible tuition assistance. Now here's the kicker: no further obligation to the military after the 10-week program. People can choose to continue or go back to college (which I would obviously do). On completion, we become 2nd Lieutenants. This wouldn't interfere with my normal school schedule at all, and I'm sure this would look just as good as an internship on my resume after graduation.
I showed this to my friend, and he got the same impression I did. "This is too good to be true" because we're both pretty fit and smart. He was a high school wrestler and I'm a varsity athlete at my university. We also love playing games like Company of Heroes, Brothers in Arms, X-COM, some FPSs, and strategy games.
Here's some links I got from the email:
www.marineofficer.com
www.ocs.usmc.mil
www.tbs.usmc.mil
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/class186/index.php
I've read through a lot and the physical training is quite rigorous, but not impossible. Pre-reqs are: full-time college student, U.S. citizen, and min 2.0 GPA which we do have. This is not ROTC because it's not on campus. It's in Quantico, Va. and it's in the summer. My friend and I would go together, because his home is only 30 minutes away from the base. Our parents gave us both the green light for this, if it really has no strings attached.
My question for you guys is this: is this really too good to be true? Could there really be no further obligation to the military, because I would like to get my degree and go into R&D (maybe FOR the military, but not Iraq).
But I kept reading. It's a 10-week summer program for college juniors, just like an internship. Room and board paid, $4000 stipend with possible tuition assistance. Now here's the kicker: no further obligation to the military after the 10-week program. People can choose to continue or go back to college (which I would obviously do). On completion, we become 2nd Lieutenants. This wouldn't interfere with my normal school schedule at all, and I'm sure this would look just as good as an internship on my resume after graduation.
I showed this to my friend, and he got the same impression I did. "This is too good to be true" because we're both pretty fit and smart. He was a high school wrestler and I'm a varsity athlete at my university. We also love playing games like Company of Heroes, Brothers in Arms, X-COM, some FPSs, and strategy games.
Here's some links I got from the email:
www.marineofficer.com
www.ocs.usmc.mil
www.tbs.usmc.mil
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/class186/index.php
I've read through a lot and the physical training is quite rigorous, but not impossible. Pre-reqs are: full-time college student, U.S. citizen, and min 2.0 GPA which we do have. This is not ROTC because it's not on campus. It's in Quantico, Va. and it's in the summer. My friend and I would go together, because his home is only 30 minutes away from the base. Our parents gave us both the green light for this, if it really has no strings attached.
My question for you guys is this: is this really too good to be true? Could there really be no further obligation to the military, because I would like to get my degree and go into R&D (maybe FOR the military, but not Iraq).
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
VeritasVR on
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If you're fit, prepare to be hounded by them for a long, long time. That may not matter to you, though, and it's really just a matter of annoyance. You can ignore the phone calls or whatever you like, or just tell them "no and never" every time you answer the phone.
Just thought I'd share that with you.
Yeah, I'm a liberal too. That might present some problems, but I'll keep my mouth shut.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
Seriously, though, it sounds good...just pore over the fine print of anything you are required to sign. Anything.
Even if I was inclined to join the military (who knows?) if they were this aggressive to get me to join, it would completely sour me on it forever.
It feels good to be wanted I guess, but for what? Fodder on the front lines? Disarming IED's?
I know what you want to say: WHAT Canadian Military etc.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
In any case, still do either have someone with training in contract law look at what you sign, or be damn sure you carefully read every little bit of it first.
Good luck.
Military contracts aren't entirely readable by people without special training. That's how the military won the “try it for a year†case; the contracts contained abbreviations in small print that made no sense to anyone who wasn't familiar enough with military recruitment practices to know that those little letters meant something along the lines of “now we own you for life.â€
Tossrock: Somolia, you know Mogadishu, Blackhawk down?
Qorzm: I'm sorry, I don't follow hip-hop
So I'm pretty sure you can choose to not continue, but still have the military training that a lot of employers are looking for. If a lawyer gives this the green light, I'm going to do it. Has anyone else heard of this program or know its outcome?
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
"9. Q: May I deny or refuse my commission (or wait a period of time before accepting it) and still receive credit for completing OCS?
A: No."
I'm guessing this is saying that you need to serve at some point after the OCS, am I right? If so, forget it.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
Sounds about right. But unless you're planning to go into military or intelligence work, you aren't missing out on anything by not having OCS credit.
As far as I know, your commission is just your rank. (as in, Non-Coms. being Sgt., Cpl., Ect. and Comms. being Captain, Majory, Colonel)
Seems odd though that they would let non degree holding people become 2nd Lt., at least in Canada I know you have to have a degree from a recognized university/college to be an officer.
Unless I misread, if so, ignore this.
What caught me earlier is that you said you get the rank of 2ndLt., but I couldn't see how that was possible without having basic under your belt. This part above though - makes sense. You can't have the rank, without signing on fully with the military. You also don't get a credit for the course.
p.s. not an expert, etc. see a lawyer, etc.
I believe you misread the notice, or the notice was misleading - you have no further obligation during your college career, but you're shipped off to Basic and pretty much join up with the Marines once you're done with school.
Don't consider this at all unless you're willing to join the Marines.
Okay, thanks for that. OP, you will join the Corps at the end of college; it's basically just a program to get you started as an officer and teach you more about the military so you don't go in knowing nothing. PLC is basically OCS only it's a different training cycle and not necessarily an advantageous one at that. Make no mistake, it's a contract.
Yeah so I'm not sure what's going on. I'm definitely going to talk to the recruiter, a lawyer, and hopefully some people on campus who have completed this program. As it stands there's probably a 50-50 chance there's no strings attached.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
See how many books I've read so far in 2010
-Terry Pratchett
Isn't that massively illegal? Saying anything to get one to sign up can't really be the case, can it? I would imagine if it were the case, the victimized recruits would be blabbing all over the place. (and I don't think the brass could keep a lid on it...)
I've heard the same thing about US military recruitment a lot. Over here (UK), it's actually competitive to get in, places in many units are scarce, and they try damn hard to weed out unsuitable candidates. By comparison, US recruitment seems to me to be positively unethical.
In Britain, the emphasis is on letting recruits opt out at almost any point up until the end of training or commissioning. After all, nobody wants soldiers who don't want to be in there, because they will be bad soldiers, and endanger themselves and others. In the US it seems the emphasis is on trapping people into terms of service that they cannot escape, no matter how bad it makes them at their job. It's a seriously unhealthy military system if you ask me.
Have a look at all the posts about US military recruitment on this forum, most all of them tell a similar story.
Otherwise I would do an engineering internship. I need SOMETHING before I graduate, and unfortunately internships consistants of mostly bland runner-work.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
Fucking shut the hell up if you're going to come into H/A to sit around and stare at your gut and ponder. If you want to have a nice chat go do it in a discussion forum, this is all completely off topic and does nothing to provide help or advice, and I'm pretty sure you've been warned in the past on that front.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
It's not a goddamn internship. First of all, PLC is *not* 10 weeks -- It's 5-6 weeks during your Junior year and another 5-6 weeks during your senior year. Alternately you can attend OCS (Officer's Candidate School) which is for people whom already have a degree. The training is exactly the same, but it is broken up into either two summers (PLC) or one 10-week training event. The training takes place in Quantico, VA.
Whomever said "90% sure you end up in the reserves" is 100% wrong. OSO's (Officer Selection Officers) are *not* the same as the recruiters all you fucking whine and moan about. Yes their goal is to get potential Marine officers, but it's not quite the same. During your time at PLC or OCS you can elect to drop out. I believe it's after week 4 or so, but unlike enlisted bootcamp (Yes, similiar to the shit you see in Full Metal Jacket) in which you sign a contract and are locked in, you can elect to drop-out of OCS once you realize that this isn't a summer of fun and games.
PLC and/or OCS is going to be the most physically and mentally challenging time in your life up to this point. Trying to convey it in words isn't quite plausible to someone who hasn't been there.
The guy that said "after college you go to basic"... no, well not exactly, but definitely no in the way he meant it. He meant basic, as in bootcamp, as in full metal jacket. That is for enlisted recruits. NOT officers. PLC/OCS *is* "bootcamp" for officers. It's the very preliminary training to see if you are fit to be a Marine Officer (hint: you aren't). After completing your degree and the two increments of PLC or OCS, you receive your commission. Commission has nothing to do with rank. It's the right and privilege to call yourself a Marine Officer. Your rank would be, as they said, a 2nd Lt. You would also be on an active duty contract for 8 years.
After being commissioned you attend TBS (The Basic School) which is a 6-month course that further teaches you what you need to know the basics of military combat, weaponry and leadership. During TBS your MOS (military occupational speciality; aka job) is chosen and then you attend training specific to your MOS.
The thing about officers in contrast to enlisted is if the officer doesn't want to be there, he doesn't have to. It's not quite that simple, but the Marines do *not* want their leaders to be unsure of their desires. They want men and women who are completely dedicated and sure of themselves and posses the natural leadership traits that is that of Marine Corps Officers.
Yes you get paid. While attending PLC/OCS you get active duty pay the same as E-5 (Sergeant). That's $1854 a month. You are going to receive your pay regardless if you stay in or be a bitch and back out (you).
Frankly I'd strongly suggest you *not* attempting this. This isn't your little summer camp you did with your scoutmaster....
And honestly I really doubt you'd pass the board of acceptance for even sending people to PLC/OCS. You have to *want* it and you have to pass a very competitive board of review to even be accepted for initial training. When I was applying the minimum PFT score was 275 out of 300 pts. A perfect 300-PFT is 20 deadhang pullups, 3 miles in 18 minutes, 100 crunches in 2 minutes. You can find Marine PFT charts on google if you want to know the exact breakdown.
If you accept the tuition assistance and later back-out, you have to pay it back. The $1854 a month while in training is your pay though, no strings attached.
No this would NOT look good on a resume. Especially if someone had a military background. Even more especially bad if that person was a Marine. Any Marine reading your resume and reads "I went to OCS and washed out" is going to toss your shit in the trash and treat you just like I am.
Yes you can back out and deny your commission. The "credit" they are referring to in that FAQ is probably some sort of college-credit equivalence. As stated above, the Marines do not want "iffy" people in their leadership positions so you can back out.
*sigh*
Yes, I am a Marine, so I know wtf I'm talking about.
Several college advisors have told me that this WOULD look very good on a resume, due to the fact that you didn't have just another engineering internship. You worked your ass off for 10 weeks (summer of junior --> senior year) and are a dedicated leader. However, I don't want to ever see combat, or get shipped out to Iraq, because I am against that whole thing.
The sources from this program tell me you complete all 10 weeks of training and decide THEN whether or not to continue with the Marines. What I'm not sure of is:
1) Do you get the stipend, college aid, or rank regardless of your continuation after 10 weeks?
2) Do you need to, at some point, serve? (ie, they own your soul.)
Also, my friend is technically a junior because of his credits, but only his 2nd year in college. I am technically a senior, but only my 3rd year in college. Would be both get put in the 10-week course? If not, we're not doing this.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
See how many books I've read so far in 2010
I didn't mean to make it sound impossible to get out of enlisted bootcamp. Just in contrast to PLC/OCS where you raise your hand and say "I'm done" and they discharge you. You'd get smoked for a week and then probably 2 or 3 drops before you'd ever even make it to outprocessing at MCRD.
VeritasVR:
You get paid the $1854 a month.
If you take advantage of the college aid and deny your commission, you now are in possession of a loan to the government.
No if you decline your commission you do not get your rank. Rank is reserved for those who serve, not attend PLC/OCS and quit.
When I was going through the process 2 years ago, OCS was reserved for those whom already had a college degree under their belt. PLC was for those still in college.
PLC/OCS isn't a damn internship. It's training for those interested in becoming Marine Officers.
"Several college advisors have told me that this WOULD look very good on a resume" --> Chances are they are as misinformed as yourself. If you are indeed a leader, you'd stay in and not drop out.
Veritas, Listen to this man. You are against the war and you want to be an engineer. That's great, I'm an engineer myself, however military training is not something you do to pad your resume. OTS was a life changing experience for me, but you have to truly want to be there. Go get yourself an internship with a good company in the area. Your in Buckeye territory, which imply's your near Wright Patterson Air Force Base home of Material Command. You ought to be able to get an internship with one of the support companies in the area. If your willing to travel I can make suggestions in other cities that will not be bland runner work.
-Terry Pratchett
I also am considering that this IS the only chance I would ever have to get involved in the military, EVER. The clincher to me is the no-obligation clause and "internship-ish" stipend. I am certain it would not hurt my resume, because I am simply choosing another path after the OCS/PLC program (which is a completely acceptable choice, considering the information I received). And why would it??
The Marines in this thread telling me that I can't just makes me want to prove I can do it moreso. It's been the best feeling in the world to accomplish things people said I couldn't do. The 3-mile test though... that will be a rough one. That means run for 3-miles at 10 MPH. Right now I'm at 7.5, but I've got until the summer.
Due to this win/sorta-win summer situation for my resume, if I happen to get a good engineering internship, I will choice that over this military program. At the moment though, this is at the top. If anyone has any more information about the program, let me know.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
Its not that you cant do it physically. Its that you shouldn't do it for the reasons your posting about.
Any type of basic or OTS training will test you physically. I'm 5'10 and 220lbs when I went off to Basic Training. I wasn't in shape, but I'll be damned if I didn't work my ass off and get in shape and graduate on time, and lose 30 extra pounds to boot.
The fact remains, that you are doing this for all the wrong reasons. But hell, when/if you actually do this. It will be a life changing experience, and who knows, you might stay in.
He's right. The physical, while difficult, is doable. I can't do a 3-miler in 18 minutes. That's for a perfect PFT and beyond.
The point is, as I said, PLC/OCS is a competitive spot to get into to begin with. Even if you excel at it, you are still planning to drop out. You and your friend would thereby be taking up a spot from someone, who may not be as good as you physically and/or mentally, really wants to go and really wants to be a Marine officer. Do you really want to take up their spot when you have no intention of following through?
The reason they advertise you can "back out at any time" and "no strings attached" is the same reason you can get a free trip to Las Vegas if you attend a 3-hour "no strings attached" seminar on timeshare condos. Yes, people (like you) take advantage of the situation and reap the benefits but the real goal is for the Marines to take people (like you) who initially only go in for the benefits and possibly end up deciding to stay in.
I am not saying you aren't capable, not saying that at all. I'm saying please don't take advantage of the situation offered by the Marine Corps if your only goal is to have an exciting summer and maybe walk home with some cash. Let the guys who actually want to be a leader of Marines take that spot.
One way or another you'll still end up doing that as a first job. Better to get it over with while you're still in school.
From my personal experience (4 years in the Army) and the experiences of every other service member I've talked to in the past, recruiters very rarely (almost never) actually tell a bold-faced lie to a potential recruit. What recruiters do is omit very important details. They tell you all the positive things but leave out, or severely water down, the negative facets of military life.
@VeritasVR: I can definitely understand Demitri's point of view that you shouldn't waste somebody else's slot in this PLC program if you know you're not at all interested in joining the Marines. But on the other side of the coin I can see your interest in the program and, if it's even remotely similar to Basic Training, it would do nothing but good things for you (physical fitness, self-discipline, teamwork).
There are a few worthwhile points of view in this topic to consider but ultimately the choice is yours. You've been offered this opportunity and I personally see nothing wrong with you taking advantage of it.
Hope this was some tiny bit of help one way or the other.
I worked several internships at some very well regarded engineering firms, I never made coffee for anyone. If your goinf to persue this good luck, maybe you will decide it is the life for you, but going in with the attitude of I can leave at anytime already puts you at a disadvantage. Part of the goal of OTS/OCS is to have you react and lead under extreme pressure, they make it easy to leave so that those who make it through are people who won't take the easy way out. The mental challenge is just as important as the physical one.
-Terry Pratchett