Treating mental illness and sociopaths everywhere is a noble goal but not a realistic one. Once we've accomplished that and created a utopian society, then maybe we can all reveal our identities.
Zek on
0
MaratastikJust call me Mara, please!Registered Userregular
I personally don't give two shits whether or not someone knows my name.
I actually prefer it, if I had to choose.
Yes, I wouldn't care if people knew my name either if was limited to just my name. Problem is it opens up more information than that. Did you not read what happened to Bashiok? This is why I'm against a system like this.
So you're fine with people knowing you're name. What about:
Your address?
Your phone number?
Where you work/go to school?
Wife's name?
Childrens' name?
Where you're children go to school?
You can get all that with just a name. Also, I would be fine with some people on these forums knowing any of this about me. But I don't want this information accessible to anyone with a computer and internet.
So why do I care about realID? Why don't I just not use the Blizzard forums? Well I won't use the blizzard forums because of this. I care because as someone else mentioned this sets a precedent. We decide we're fine with blizzard doing it so other companies/sites do it. Alright it's all good. After all if you have a problem with it just don't go to those sited that do it. Well before you know it ISP's/government may decide it's a good idea to have your ID permanently attached to you on the internet. Now everything you post/do online can be traced back to your real identity. If anyone thinks this last scenario is a GOOD idea, then I challenge you to post everything about yourself right here that the bnet forums found out about Bashiok. Cause it's a GOOD idea right.
As far as the actual game is concerned, I don't care. You control who sees you're realID and only your facebook friends will see your starcraft activity. This is fine. My problem is when you no longer have control over who has access to your info like Bnet forums.
I'm also reminded of stories of when the anime Shin Seiki Evangelion first got a US distribution.
Basically some fans were not happy with the controvertial ending most people weren't happy with. So they decided to stalk the head of the US publisher(ADV I think) and to beg him to change the ending.
Thankfully it wasn't violent. But basically, people are stupid and can't be trusted.
... Ooooor we could kick and scream and threaten the bottom line of these idiot companies until they drop the policy and we get our freedom back?
You might as well have been arguing that the British set up these amazing colonies and its their right to tax whatever they want. Its the direction commerce is taking and we should all just accept it and adapt or be wash away with the paddling wheel of progress.
No, it's not like that at all. Not even kind of like that.
Kicking and screaming will be all you do. Nothing will come of it at all. Do you realize that all of this has already occurred? Do you realize that the privacy and freedom you say are being taken away by blizzard are artifacts of a lost age? You don't have them. Maybe you did before or maybe you didn't, who knows? But you don't anymore, and that's not the fault of RealID. It's because cyberspace is becoming the same as real life.
The more it becomes like real life the more we have to treat it like real life. I don't see you objecting to not being able to be anonymous when you walk into a department store. They have security cameras, you can be identified with them. Do you know that a mediocre investigator can tell where you've been pretty much EVER exactly when you were there, with not a whole lot of effort? That's how real life is. It's just the direction the world is moving.
Yes, Rend, but Security in every form throughout history has always been about Reasonable Deterrent. If someone is truly motivated and possesses the necessary skillset, they will overcome any security measures taken. However, you can take steps to limit the potential risk.
I have an important document. I could lock it in a box with a padlock; anyone with a crowbar can defeat my security. I could lock it in a safe; a safecracker or demolitionist can defeat it. I could keep it in a bank deposit box. Now, it takes a dedicated team to infiltrate the bank and the vault. With every methodology, there is risk, but it is up to me to decide how important my document is, and how much I should limit that risk. The guy with the crowbar cannot break into the bank.
Tie this back into RealID. Obviously, there are people that can probably find my real identity and stalk me. RealID is just the Padlock scenario again, anyone with a crowbar can get in on the action. RealID increases the risk, and avoiding it does not eliminate the risk. Security is not a binary system, it's a gradation, and it's up to you to determine where you are comfortable sitting on that scale.
RealID is "optional" for now, in that I don't have to use it for friends lists and am perfectly fine to not post on their forums. My question is, do I really trust Blizzard to keep it that way, or do I expect it to creep into other aspects of the game? Will I wake up one day to find my RealID used in the upcoming chatrooms? Will they start embedding RealIDs into Replays, or Maps I author? What about older posts on the B.net forums, will they be retroactively altered to RealID at some point? What RealID is today may not be what RealID is tomorrow, and that why I hesitate. What I am comfortable with today may change into something I am not comfortable with tomorrow, and I may not get the chance to opt out.
That is the question that needs to be asked, and the answer will be different for each of us.
Houn on
0
kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
since I don't want details from my professional life to be known to the people I socialize with in my free time (and vice versa) I suppose my only choice is to stop using stuff I guess
actually, I don't think I could be stalked so easily. My facebook is completely detached from everything else, with an extremely small overlap in the posters here that know me personally. It would be much easier to find me if there was a google-able source that could place my handle with my actual name. This Blizzard policy would basically break what privacy I've tried to make for myself.
So essentially your argument is because people could stalk you maybe while you're using an alias, why not just use your real name so that...you can be...stalked/harassed easier?
Also, ask the average person how to change their privacy settings on facebook, or do anything remotely like that. Chances are they won't be able to do it without a guiding hand
No, my argument is that you don't have privacy. You just think you do. RealID doesn't take away anything you still have, or have had for a long time.
The solution to this problem isn't to prevent RealID, it's to adapt to NOT HAVING PRIVACY. If those facebook people need help? We should give them help. That's what they need, not for us to try futilely to stunt the advancement of cyberspace on their behalf.
I still don't see why I should be buying this assumption that the internet is inevitably marching away from privacy and towards some weird cybernetic Cheers.
I see it as an arms race. One side attempts new tracking systems, the other invents things like proxies and Tor. All you're doing is arguing that the people on the side of freedom should lay down their arms and surrender to the overpowering will of our corporate overlords because, well dammit dey took 'er vidya games
I personally don't give two shits whether or not someone knows my name.
I actually prefer it, if I had to choose.
Yes, I wouldn't care if people knew my name either if was limited to just my name. Problem is it opens up more information than that. Did you not read what happened to Bashiok? This is why I'm against a system like this.
So you're fine with people knowing you're name. What about:
Your address?
Your phone number?
Where you work/go to school?
Wife's name?
Childrens' name?
Where you're children go to school?
You can get all that with just a name. Also, I would be fine with some people on these forums knowing any of this about me. But I don't want this information accessible to anyone with a computer and internet.
So why do I care about realID? Why don't I just not use the Blizzard forums? Well I won't use the blizzard forums because of this. I care because as someone else mentioned this sets a precedent. We decide we're fine with blizzard doing it so other companies/sites do it. Alright it's all good. After all if you have a problem with it just don't go to those sited that do it. Well before you know it ISP's/government may decide it's a good idea to have your ID permanently attached to you on the internet. Now everything you post/do online can be traced back to your real identity. If anyone thinks this last scenario is a GOOD idea, then I challenge you to post everything about yourself right here that the bnet forums found out about Bashiok. Cause it's a GOOD idea right.
As far as the actual game is concerned, I don't care. You control who sees you're realID and only your facebook friends will see your starcraft activity. This is fine. My problem is when you no longer have control over who has access to your info like Bnet forums.
I might be a little different because I want people to know my name and contact information.
Yes, Rend, but Security in every form throughout history has always been about Reasonable Deterrent. If someone is truly motivated and possesses the necessary skillset, they will overcome any security measures taken. However, you can take steps to limit the potential risk.
I have an important document. I could lock it in a box with a padlock; anyone with a crowbar can defeat my security. I could lock it in a safe; a safecracker or demolitionist can defeat it. I could keep it in a bank deposit box. Now, it takes a dedicated team to infiltrate the bank and the vault. With every methodology, there is risk, but it is up to me to decide how important my document is, and how much I should limit that risk. The guy with the crowbar cannot break into the bank.
Tie this back into RealID. Obviously, there are people that can probably find my real identity and stalk me. RealID is just the Padlock scenario again, anyone with a crowbar can get in on the action. RealID increases the risk, and avoiding it does not eliminate the risk. Security is not a binary system, it's a gradation, and it's up to you to determine where you are comfortable sitting on that scale.
RealID is "optional" for now, in that I don't have to use it for friends lists and am perfectly fine to not post on their forums. My question is, do I really trust Blizzard to keep it that way, or do I expect it to creep into other aspects of the game? Will I wake up one day to find my RealID used in the upcoming chatrooms? Will they start embedding RealIDs into Replays, or Maps I author? What about older posts on the B.net forums, will they be retroactively altered to RealID at some point? What RealID is today may not be what RealID is tomorrow, and that why I hesitate. What I am comfortable with today may change into something I am not comfortable with tomorrow, and I may not get the chance to opt out.
That is the question that needs to be asked, and the answer will be different for each of us.
I agree with this completely.
And I am not all for RealID, because I don't know if enough of the population knows how to replace their padlocks with safes. I think that until we're ready for that, it's probably not the best idea. Because everyone can have a crowbar.
But the reality of the situation is that safes are quickly straying from the default, that's all I'm saying. I'm saying that learning how to buy a safe right now is a better investment than trying to outlaw padlocks.
I personally don't give two shits whether or not someone knows my name.
I actually prefer it, if I had to choose.
Yes, I wouldn't care if people knew my name either if was limited to just my name. Problem is it opens up more information than that. Did you not read what happened to Bashiok? This is why I'm against a system like this.
So you're fine with people knowing you're name. What about:
Your address?
Your phone number?
Where you work/go to school?
Wife's name?
Childrens' name?
Where you're children go to school?
You can get all that with just a name. Also, I would be fine with some people on these forums knowing any of this about me. But I don't want this information accessible to anyone with a computer and internet.
So why do I care about realID? Why don't I just not use the Blizzard forums? Well I won't use the blizzard forums because of this. I care because as someone else mentioned this sets a precedent. We decide we're fine with blizzard doing it so other companies/sites do it. Alright it's all good. After all if you have a problem with it just don't go to those sited that do it. Well before you know it ISP's/government may decide it's a good idea to have your ID permanently attached to you on the internet. Now everything you post/do online can be traced back to your real identity. If anyone thinks this last scenario is a GOOD idea, then I challenge you to post everything about yourself right here that the bnet forums found out about Bashiok. Cause it's a GOOD idea right.
As far as the actual game is concerned, I don't care. You control who sees you're realID and only your facebook friends will see your starcraft activity. This is fine. My problem is when you no longer have control over who has access to your info like Bnet forums.
So you're getting upset about something that might happen. Got'cha
So essentially your argument is because people could stalk you maybe while you're using an alias, why not just use your real name so that...you can be...stalked/harassed easier?
Also, ask the average person how to change their privacy settings on facebook, or do anything remotely like that. Chances are they won't be able to do it without a guiding hand
No, my argument is that you don't have privacy. You just think you do. RealID doesn't take away anything you still have, or have had for a long time.
The solution to this problem isn't to prevent RealID, it's to adapt to NOT HAVING PRIVACY. If those facebook people need help? We should give them help. That's what they need, not for us to try futilely to stunt the advancement of cyberspace on their behalf.
I still don't see why I should be buying this assumption that the internet is inevitably marching away from privacy and towards some weird cybernetic Cheers.
I see it as an arms race. One side attempts new tracking systems, the other invents things like proxies and Tor. All you're doing is arguing that the people on the side of freedom should lay down their arms and surrender to the overpowering will of our corporate overlords because, well dammit dey took 'er vidya games
No, that's not what I'm trying to get at. You will always be able to have anonymity. It will just get harder, that's all. The anonymity of the average person, however, will absolutely inevitably go down as time goes on. I am for the existence of anonymity. I'm not sure I am for the widespread use of it or not, but I do know that every single thing you do on the internet is logged, and can be traced back to you geographically, unless you take significant steps to stop that. That's just reality.
If you want to keep your anonymity, you need to learn how. There will always be ways, but like in real life, those ways are going to become less and less mainstream as time goes on.
But a safe in this situation is to NOT USE THE FORUMS. That's just stupid.
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
0
MaratastikJust call me Mara, please!Registered Userregular
First of all, Bashiok could have easily had that happen to him without posting his real name. I bet some of you screwballs could tell me everything about MY life from my profile here. In fact, I bet if I created an alt and registered just to post once in this thread, you could STILL do that. That's the nature of the internet. The name doesn't make it possible, just easier, and even then only by a little bit is my guess.
The bottom line is that anonymity will always be possible, but it will get more and more difficult as time goes on. That's just something we need to accept as internet users- our anonymity will not be here forever. By the looks of things, it won't even be here for long. Complaining about it will get us NOWHERE, and fast. Protesting will get us nowhere. With the spread and advancement of technology, there is literally NO WAY we can reverse this process.
The only option available to us is to change the way we use the internet. We need to ensure that any information we really need hidden is actually hidden. Cannot be found. We need to ensure that we have good security habits online, that we use good practices when we're in the internet. We need to protect ourselves in cyberspace as well as we protect ourselves in real life. Because, honestly? Real life and cyberspace are getting pretty much indistinguishable nowadays.
And we need to get used to the fact that all of our information is accessible to anyone who is really determined. All of you naysayers, I could stalk you if I wanted. Anyone could. Anyone could stalk anyone. Do you have a cell phone? You obviously use a computer. There are a million ways to find someone, and RealID is only the latest, not even the best. This is simply the sign of a new age- we can either accept it and adapt, or be washed over with fear and lose ourselves in the tide.
I'm well aware of this and I agree with you, but I have to side with how Houn summed it up. While any determined person with the skill and know how can find out who I am there's still
Your average employer who won't go beyond a google/facebook search
Your average internet creep who doesn't know how.
I don't need to make the above's job any easier for them.
I don't thinking anyone is talking about outlawing padlocks. I was merely stating that I'm not sure if I'm going to lay down money on a game that I may eventually feel uncomfortable having an account with. Kotick's attitude and public quotes are already enough to put Blactivision "On Notice", so hell yeah I'm hesitant. Which is a kick in the pants because I was really looking forward to this.
ATM, I'll still be picking it up. We'll see what other news comes out in the next few weeks, and what comes from the next beta (if any).
Yes, Rend, but Security in every form throughout history has always been about Reasonable Deterrent. If someone is truly motivated and possesses the necessary skillset, they will overcome any security measures taken. However, you can take steps to limit the potential risk.
I have an important document. I could lock it in a box with a padlock; anyone with a crowbar can defeat my security. I could lock it in a safe; a safecracker or demolitionist can defeat it. I could keep it in a bank deposit box. Now, it takes a dedicated team to infiltrate the bank and the vault. With every methodology, there is risk, but it is up to me to decide how important my document is, and how much I should limit that risk. The guy with the crowbar cannot break into the bank.
Tie this back into RealID. Obviously, there are people that can probably find my real identity and stalk me. RealID is just the Padlock scenario again, anyone with a crowbar can get in on the action. RealID increases the risk, and avoiding it does not eliminate the risk. Security is not a binary system, it's a gradation, and it's up to you to determine where you are comfortable sitting on that scale.
RealID is "optional" for now, in that I don't have to use it for friends lists and am perfectly fine to not post on their forums. My question is, do I really trust Blizzard to keep it that way, or do I expect it to creep into other aspects of the game? Will I wake up one day to find my RealID used in the upcoming chatrooms? Will they start embedding RealIDs into Replays, or Maps I author? What about older posts on the B.net forums, will they be retroactively altered to RealID at some point? What RealID is today may not be what RealID is tomorrow, and that why I hesitate. What I am comfortable with today may change into something I am not comfortable with tomorrow, and I may not get the chance to opt out.
That is the question that needs to be asked, and the answer will be different for each of us.
I agree with this completely.
And I am not all for RealID, because I don't know if enough of the population knows how to replace their padlocks with safes. I think that until we're ready for that, it's probably not the best idea. Because everyone can have a crowbar.
But the reality of the situation is that safes are quickly straying from the default, that's all I'm saying. I'm saying that learning how to buy a safe right now is a better investment than trying to outlaw padlocks.
And we should be doing both. Increase your anonymity as much as possible and at the same time fight tooth and nail with these companies that feel entitled to whore out our information.
Giving up one inch of ground in this area is a mistake.
Not to mention that all I've heard mentioned here are vague warnings about crazy people. You know what the real danger is? THIEVES. They already infest WoW like genital lice, there's no need to give them more fuel and make their lives easier.
SparserLogic on
0
MaratastikJust call me Mara, please!Registered Userregular
I personally don't give two shits whether or not someone knows my name.
I actually prefer it, if I had to choose.
Yes, I wouldn't care if people knew my name either if was limited to just my name. Problem is it opens up more information than that. Did you not read what happened to Bashiok? This is why I'm against a system like this.
So you're fine with people knowing you're name. What about:
Your address?
Your phone number?
Where you work/go to school?
Wife's name?
Childrens' name?
Where you're children go to school?
You can get all that with just a name. Also, I would be fine with some people on these forums knowing any of this about me. But I don't want this information accessible to anyone with a computer and internet.
So why do I care about realID? Why don't I just not use the Blizzard forums? Well I won't use the blizzard forums because of this. I care because as someone else mentioned this sets a precedent. We decide we're fine with blizzard doing it so other companies/sites do it. Alright it's all good. After all if you have a problem with it just don't go to those sited that do it. Well before you know it ISP's/government may decide it's a good idea to have your ID permanently attached to you on the internet. Now everything you post/do online can be traced back to your real identity. If anyone thinks this last scenario is a GOOD idea, then I challenge you to post everything about yourself right here that the bnet forums found out about Bashiok. Cause it's a GOOD idea right.
As far as the actual game is concerned, I don't care. You control who sees you're realID and only your facebook friends will see your starcraft activity. This is fine. My problem is when you no longer have control over who has access to your info like Bnet forums.
So you're getting upset about something that might happen. Got'cha
I knew someone would say this. And yes, I am. Yes, I actually consider how things like this might set precedents for the future. And yes, I know everything I posted is extremely hypothetical. But things like this always start small and innocous before snowballing beyond hope of stopping. If I knew right now 100% that a realID type system would never spread beyond Blizzard's own forums, then I wouldn't care in the slightest.
Not to mention that all I've heard mentioned here are vague warnings about crazy people. You know what the real danger is? THIEVES. They already infest WoW like genital lice, there's no need to give them more fuel and make their lives easier.
This right here is precisely why I disagree with RealID at this point in time. Though by how I talk you might not think it, I really don't think that now is the time for RealID to be giving out this information.
That is precisely why I am speaking the way I do about getting ready. If this sort of thing catches us off guard we will lose everything. And while fighting it may or may not be something I agree with, I'm not sure yet, the battle might be won or lost. I just really don't want people to log on one day and find out that not only is the battle lost, but that they were a casualty.
Yes, Rend, but Security in every form throughout history has always been about Reasonable Deterrent. If someone is truly motivated and possesses the necessary skillset, they will overcome any security measures taken. However, you can take steps to limit the potential risk.
I have an important document. I could lock it in a box with a padlock; anyone with a crowbar can defeat my security. I could lock it in a safe; a safecracker or demolitionist can defeat it. I could keep it in a bank deposit box. Now, it takes a dedicated team to infiltrate the bank and the vault. With every methodology, there is risk, but it is up to me to decide how important my document is, and how much I should limit that risk. The guy with the crowbar cannot break into the bank.
Tie this back into RealID. Obviously, there are people that can probably find my real identity and stalk me. RealID is just the Padlock scenario again, anyone with a crowbar can get in on the action. RealID increases the risk, and avoiding it does not eliminate the risk. Security is not a binary system, it's a gradation, and it's up to you to determine where you are comfortable sitting on that scale.
RealID is "optional" for now, in that I don't have to use it for friends lists and am perfectly fine to not post on their forums. My question is, do I really trust Blizzard to keep it that way, or do I expect it to creep into other aspects of the game? Will I wake up one day to find my RealID used in the upcoming chatrooms? Will they start embedding RealIDs into Replays, or Maps I author? What about older posts on the B.net forums, will they be retroactively altered to RealID at some point? What RealID is today may not be what RealID is tomorrow, and that why I hesitate. What I am comfortable with today may change into something I am not comfortable with tomorrow, and I may not get the chance to opt out.
That is the question that needs to be asked, and the answer will be different for each of us.
I agree with this completely.
And I am not all for RealID, because I don't know if enough of the population knows how to replace their padlocks with safes. I think that until we're ready for that, it's probably not the best idea. Because everyone can have a crowbar.
But the reality of the situation is that safes are quickly straying from the default, that's all I'm saying. I'm saying that learning how to buy a safe right now is a better investment than trying to outlaw padlocks.
And we should be doing both. Increase your anonymity as much as possible and at the same time fight tooth and nail with these companies that feel entitled to whore out our information.
Giving up one inch of ground in this area is a mistake.
Not to mention that all I've heard mentioned here are vague warnings about crazy people. You know what the real danger is? THIEVES. They already infest WoW like genital lice, there's no need to give them more fuel and make their lives easier.
This is what the argument is about. Because this is where it starts. Ok so we use real names tied to accounts for boards, why not do that for entire games? Why not all games? Why not require it to log onto the internet at all? You don't have something to hide do you??
And this is omitting the whole idea of companies like Activision wanting to link up all your information into neat little packages for datamining and selling to advertisers
In the long scheme of things, it's easier to just keep things anonymous then try to shift everyone into protecting their information under lock and key.
Yes, Rend, but Security in every form throughout history has always been about Reasonable Deterrent. If someone is truly motivated and possesses the necessary skillset, they will overcome any security measures taken. However, you can take steps to limit the potential risk.
I have an important document. I could lock it in a box with a padlock; anyone with a crowbar can defeat my security. I could lock it in a safe; a safecracker or demolitionist can defeat it. I could keep it in a bank deposit box. Now, it takes a dedicated team to infiltrate the bank and the vault. With every methodology, there is risk, but it is up to me to decide how important my document is, and how much I should limit that risk. The guy with the crowbar cannot break into the bank.
Tie this back into RealID. Obviously, there are people that can probably find my real identity and stalk me. RealID is just the Padlock scenario again, anyone with a crowbar can get in on the action. RealID increases the risk, and avoiding it does not eliminate the risk. Security is not a binary system, it's a gradation, and it's up to you to determine where you are comfortable sitting on that scale.
RealID is "optional" for now, in that I don't have to use it for friends lists and am perfectly fine to not post on their forums. My question is, do I really trust Blizzard to keep it that way, or do I expect it to creep into other aspects of the game? Will I wake up one day to find my RealID used in the upcoming chatrooms? Will they start embedding RealIDs into Replays, or Maps I author? What about older posts on the B.net forums, will they be retroactively altered to RealID at some point? What RealID is today may not be what RealID is tomorrow, and that why I hesitate. What I am comfortable with today may change into something I am not comfortable with tomorrow, and I may not get the chance to opt out.
That is the question that needs to be asked, and the answer will be different for each of us.
I agree with this completely.
And I am not all for RealID, because I don't know if enough of the population knows how to replace their padlocks with safes. I think that until we're ready for that, it's probably not the best idea. Because everyone can have a crowbar.
But the reality of the situation is that safes are quickly straying from the default, that's all I'm saying. I'm saying that learning how to buy a safe right now is a better investment than trying to outlaw padlocks.
And we should be doing both. Increase your anonymity as much as possible and at the same time fight tooth and nail with these companies that feel entitled to whore out our information.
Giving up one inch of ground in this area is a mistake.
Not to mention that all I've heard mentioned here are vague warnings about crazy people. You know what the real danger is? THIEVES. They already infest WoW like genital lice, there's no need to give them more fuel and make their lives easier.
This is what the argument is about. Because this is where it starts. Ok so we use real names tied to accounts for boards, why not do that for entire games? Why not all games? Why not require it to log onto the internet at all? You don't have something to hide do you??
And this is omitting the whole idea of companies like Activision wanting to link up all your information into neat little packages for datamining and selling to advertisers
"Excellent point benevolent stranger! Here, have credit cards, mother's maiden name, and social security number! Will that get me onto your social networking site so I can poke people? No? Damn, what if I gave you my wife for a night or three?"
SparserLogic on
0
MaratastikJust call me Mara, please!Registered Userregular
Not to mention that all I've heard mentioned here are vague warnings about crazy people. You know what the real danger is? THIEVES. They already infest WoW like genital lice, there's no need to give them more fuel and make their lives easier.
This right here is precisely why I disagree with RealID at this point in time. Though by how I talk you might not think it, I really don't think that now is the time for RealID to be giving out this information.
That is precisely why I am speaking the way I do about getting ready. If this sort of thing catches us off guard we will lose everything. And while fighting it may or may not be something I agree with, I'm not sure yet, the battle might be won or lost. I just really don't want people to log on one day and find out that not only is the battle lost, but that they were a casualty.
Wow, Rend. I went from thinking you were all for systems like this to realizing that you pretty much have my same viewpoint: Anonymity is good but we're pretty much screwed and there's not much we can do to stop it. I guess that's why I get a bit worked up when I see stuff like this, because this is how everything is trending and we're pretty much powerless to do anything.
Not to mention that all I've heard mentioned here are vague warnings about crazy people. You know what the real danger is? THIEVES. They already infest WoW like genital lice, there's no need to give them more fuel and make their lives easier.
This right here is precisely why I disagree with RealID at this point in time. Though by how I talk you might not think it, I really don't think that now is the time for RealID to be giving out this information.
That is precisely why I am speaking the way I do about getting ready. If this sort of thing catches us off guard we will lose everything. And while fighting it may or may not be something I agree with, I'm not sure yet, the battle might be won or lost. I just really don't want people to log on one day and find out that not only is the battle lost, but that they were a casualty.
Wow, Rend. I went from thinking you were all for systems like this to realizing that you pretty much have my same viewpoint: Anonymity is good but we're pretty much screwed and there's not much we can do to stop it. I guess that's why I get a bit worked up when I see stuff like this, because this is how everything is trending and we're pretty much powerless to do anything.
Pretty much. :P
I'm not unreasonable, and I'm not a supporter of big brother, I just see this giant wave of nonprivacy, and it's just getting deeper. I just want everyone to be ready when it hits.
That isn't true at all. I'm not sure where Rend is getting this idea that we're trending towards non-anonymity. If I deleted my facebook right now, there'd be no information about me anywhere on the internet except through banking websites or such, and I think those are beyond your typical identity thief.
Non-privacy is very much opt in with the internet, and I don't see how that will change. I will always be able to sign up for anything with a fake alias, information, etc.
That isn't true at all. I'm not sure where Rend is getting this idea that we're trending towards non-anonymity. If I deleted my facebook right now, there'd be no information about me anywhere on the internet except through banking websites or such, and I think those are beyond your typical identity thief.
Non-privacy is very much opt in with the internet, and I don't see how that will change. I will always be able to sign up for anything with a fake alias, information, etc.
You have an IP address. That's enough to literally know where you have been and what you have been doing since you got a cell phone.
Psssssst Bliz....now would be a real good time to get the servers up. Thousands of pages of angry people and valve is promising golden wrenches.
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
That isn't true at all. I'm not sure where Rend is getting this idea that we're trending towards non-anonymity. If I deleted my facebook right now, there'd be no information about me anywhere on the internet except through banking websites or such, and I think those are beyond your typical identity thief.
Non-privacy is very much opt in with the internet, and I don't see how that will change. I will always be able to sign up for anything with a fake alias, information, etc.
You have an IP address. That's enough to literally know where you have been and what you have been doing since you got a cell phone.
No, it isn't, especially not if masked or if you have a dynamic ip by default
That isn't true at all. I'm not sure where Rend is getting this idea that we're trending towards non-anonymity. If I deleted my facebook right now, there'd be no information about me anywhere on the internet except through banking websites or such, and I think those are beyond your typical identity thief.
Non-privacy is very much opt in with the internet, and I don't see how that will change. I will always be able to sign up for anything with a fake alias, information, etc.
You have an IP address. That's enough to literally know where you have been and what you have been doing since you got a cell phone.
No, it isn't, especially not if masked or if you have a dynamic ip by default
What? You mean the RIAA has been prosecuting the wrong people all this time? That's certainly not possible.
I agree that an IP doesn't equal a person because of ya know, how the internet works
We're not screwed. We're just in a rocky place right now because there's no alternatives. The barrier to entry gets lower every day, though; if the internet gets bad enough, I bet we'll see a rise in encrypted "darknets" and/or local WiFi Nets that are completely disconnected from the commercial net.
Look at everything through a wider lens. They tried to stamp out mp3, until someone came along and found a way to make money off it. We're seeing a similar shift in online video; I will not be surprised when we start seeing anonymous facebook alternatives. Battles are won and lost due to the availablity of what people want; right now, the demand for anonymity is low, because it's either off most people's radar or taken for granted. It'll get worse before people start getting wise to it, then as public sentiment shifts, we'll see a rise in anonymous alternative services to cater to that.
Don't give up; dig in and sit tight, because it'll be a hell of a show. Or, to make it more SC related, this ain't no 6 pool, son, this'll be an 8 man FFA on BGH, and everyone's turtling.
Don't give up; dig in and sit tight, because it'll be a hell of a show. Or, to make it more SC related, this ain't no 6 pool, son, this'll be an 8 man FFA on BGH, and everyone's turtling.
*slowclap*
I disagree that this is the direction we're taking, but you make excellent points.
For now, I'm content to say that is definitely a possibility, let's see where the future takes us.
Sure. BATTLE.NET IS DOWN FOR MAINTENANCE. PLEASE TRY AGAIN LATER.
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
Starcraft: anyone else like 8-pooling as Zerg? I play random, but I'll often 8-pool if I draw them. I really like it! It's not nearly as all-in as 6-pool, and can really quickly put pressure on Toss/Zerg opponents. On small maps, it even gets there before the Terran can wall in. Good times.
I don't understand the x-pool concept. Does it just mean "you have x amount of workers, build pool/barracks/gate"?
"x-[building]" means "construct [building] once you have reached x supply. So, yeah, 8-pool means you build your spawning pool at 8/10 supply; that is, after you've built your first two workers.
I don't understand the x-pool concept. Does it just mean "you have x amount of workers, build pool/barracks/gate"?
In a case like that the number always means the amount of food you have when you build the structure. Early in games it'll mean the workers you have (since those would be your only units) but once you get into the game it'll also include the army you have.
Posts
Yes, I wouldn't care if people knew my name either if was limited to just my name. Problem is it opens up more information than that. Did you not read what happened to Bashiok? This is why I'm against a system like this.
So you're fine with people knowing you're name. What about:
Your address?
Your phone number?
Where you work/go to school?
Wife's name?
Childrens' name?
Where you're children go to school?
You can get all that with just a name. Also, I would be fine with some people on these forums knowing any of this about me. But I don't want this information accessible to anyone with a computer and internet.
So why do I care about realID? Why don't I just not use the Blizzard forums? Well I won't use the blizzard forums because of this. I care because as someone else mentioned this sets a precedent. We decide we're fine with blizzard doing it so other companies/sites do it. Alright it's all good. After all if you have a problem with it just don't go to those sited that do it. Well before you know it ISP's/government may decide it's a good idea to have your ID permanently attached to you on the internet. Now everything you post/do online can be traced back to your real identity. If anyone thinks this last scenario is a GOOD idea, then I challenge you to post everything about yourself right here that the bnet forums found out about Bashiok. Cause it's a GOOD idea right.
As far as the actual game is concerned, I don't care. You control who sees you're realID and only your facebook friends will see your starcraft activity. This is fine. My problem is when you no longer have control over who has access to your info like Bnet forums.
Basically some fans were not happy with the controvertial ending most people weren't happy with. So they decided to stalk the head of the US publisher(ADV I think) and to beg him to change the ending.
Thankfully it wasn't violent. But basically, people are stupid and can't be trusted.
FFBE: 898,311,440
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/dElementalor
No, it's not like that at all. Not even kind of like that.
Kicking and screaming will be all you do. Nothing will come of it at all. Do you realize that all of this has already occurred? Do you realize that the privacy and freedom you say are being taken away by blizzard are artifacts of a lost age? You don't have them. Maybe you did before or maybe you didn't, who knows? But you don't anymore, and that's not the fault of RealID. It's because cyberspace is becoming the same as real life.
The more it becomes like real life the more we have to treat it like real life. I don't see you objecting to not being able to be anonymous when you walk into a department store. They have security cameras, you can be identified with them. Do you know that a mediocre investigator can tell where you've been pretty much EVER exactly when you were there, with not a whole lot of effort? That's how real life is. It's just the direction the world is moving.
I have an important document. I could lock it in a box with a padlock; anyone with a crowbar can defeat my security. I could lock it in a safe; a safecracker or demolitionist can defeat it. I could keep it in a bank deposit box. Now, it takes a dedicated team to infiltrate the bank and the vault. With every methodology, there is risk, but it is up to me to decide how important my document is, and how much I should limit that risk. The guy with the crowbar cannot break into the bank.
Tie this back into RealID. Obviously, there are people that can probably find my real identity and stalk me. RealID is just the Padlock scenario again, anyone with a crowbar can get in on the action. RealID increases the risk, and avoiding it does not eliminate the risk. Security is not a binary system, it's a gradation, and it's up to you to determine where you are comfortable sitting on that scale.
RealID is "optional" for now, in that I don't have to use it for friends lists and am perfectly fine to not post on their forums. My question is, do I really trust Blizzard to keep it that way, or do I expect it to creep into other aspects of the game? Will I wake up one day to find my RealID used in the upcoming chatrooms? Will they start embedding RealIDs into Replays, or Maps I author? What about older posts on the B.net forums, will they be retroactively altered to RealID at some point? What RealID is today may not be what RealID is tomorrow, and that why I hesitate. What I am comfortable with today may change into something I am not comfortable with tomorrow, and I may not get the chance to opt out.
That is the question that needs to be asked, and the answer will be different for each of us.
actually, I don't think I could be stalked so easily. My facebook is completely detached from everything else, with an extremely small overlap in the posters here that know me personally. It would be much easier to find me if there was a google-able source that could place my handle with my actual name. This Blizzard policy would basically break what privacy I've tried to make for myself.
I still don't see why I should be buying this assumption that the internet is inevitably marching away from privacy and towards some weird cybernetic Cheers.
I see it as an arms race. One side attempts new tracking systems, the other invents things like proxies and Tor. All you're doing is arguing that the people on the side of freedom should lay down their arms and surrender to the overpowering will of our corporate overlords because, well dammit dey took 'er vidya games
I might be a little different because I want people to know my name and contact information.
Because thats how I make money.
I agree with this completely.
And I am not all for RealID, because I don't know if enough of the population knows how to replace their padlocks with safes. I think that until we're ready for that, it's probably not the best idea. Because everyone can have a crowbar.
But the reality of the situation is that safes are quickly straying from the default, that's all I'm saying. I'm saying that learning how to buy a safe right now is a better investment than trying to outlaw padlocks.
So you're getting upset about something that might happen. Got'cha
No, that's not what I'm trying to get at. You will always be able to have anonymity. It will just get harder, that's all. The anonymity of the average person, however, will absolutely inevitably go down as time goes on. I am for the existence of anonymity. I'm not sure I am for the widespread use of it or not, but I do know that every single thing you do on the internet is logged, and can be traced back to you geographically, unless you take significant steps to stop that. That's just reality.
If you want to keep your anonymity, you need to learn how. There will always be ways, but like in real life, those ways are going to become less and less mainstream as time goes on.
I'm well aware of this and I agree with you, but I have to side with how Houn summed it up. While any determined person with the skill and know how can find out who I am there's still
Your average employer who won't go beyond a google/facebook search
Your average internet creep who doesn't know how.
I don't need to make the above's job any easier for them.
ATM, I'll still be picking it up. We'll see what other news comes out in the next few weeks, and what comes from the next beta (if any).
And we should be doing both. Increase your anonymity as much as possible and at the same time fight tooth and nail with these companies that feel entitled to whore out our information.
Giving up one inch of ground in this area is a mistake.
Not to mention that all I've heard mentioned here are vague warnings about crazy people. You know what the real danger is? THIEVES. They already infest WoW like genital lice, there's no need to give them more fuel and make their lives easier.
I knew someone would say this. And yes, I am. Yes, I actually consider how things like this might set precedents for the future. And yes, I know everything I posted is extremely hypothetical. But things like this always start small and innocous before snowballing beyond hope of stopping. If I knew right now 100% that a realID type system would never spread beyond Blizzard's own forums, then I wouldn't care in the slightest.
This right here is precisely why I disagree with RealID at this point in time. Though by how I talk you might not think it, I really don't think that now is the time for RealID to be giving out this information.
That is precisely why I am speaking the way I do about getting ready. If this sort of thing catches us off guard we will lose everything. And while fighting it may or may not be something I agree with, I'm not sure yet, the battle might be won or lost. I just really don't want people to log on one day and find out that not only is the battle lost, but that they were a casualty.
This is what the argument is about. Because this is where it starts. Ok so we use real names tied to accounts for boards, why not do that for entire games? Why not all games? Why not require it to log onto the internet at all? You don't have something to hide do you??
And this is omitting the whole idea of companies like Activision wanting to link up all your information into neat little packages for datamining and selling to advertisers
In the long scheme of things, it's easier to just keep things anonymous then try to shift everyone into protecting their information under lock and key.
"Excellent point benevolent stranger! Here, have credit cards, mother's maiden name, and social security number! Will that get me onto your social networking site so I can poke people? No? Damn, what if I gave you my wife for a night or three?"
Wow, Rend. I went from thinking you were all for systems like this to realizing that you pretty much have my same viewpoint: Anonymity is good but we're pretty much screwed and there's not much we can do to stop it. I guess that's why I get a bit worked up when I see stuff like this, because this is how everything is trending and we're pretty much powerless to do anything.
Pretty much. :P
I'm not unreasonable, and I'm not a supporter of big brother, I just see this giant wave of nonprivacy, and it's just getting deeper. I just want everyone to be ready when it hits.
Non-privacy is very much opt in with the internet, and I don't see how that will change. I will always be able to sign up for anything with a fake alias, information, etc.
You have an IP address. That's enough to literally know where you have been and what you have been doing since you got a cell phone.
No, it isn't, especially not if masked or if you have a dynamic ip by default
What? You mean the RIAA has been prosecuting the wrong people all this time? That's certainly not possible.
Look at everything through a wider lens. They tried to stamp out mp3, until someone came along and found a way to make money off it. We're seeing a similar shift in online video; I will not be surprised when we start seeing anonymous facebook alternatives. Battles are won and lost due to the availablity of what people want; right now, the demand for anonymity is low, because it's either off most people's radar or taken for granted. It'll get worse before people start getting wise to it, then as public sentiment shifts, we'll see a rise in anonymous alternative services to cater to that.
Don't give up; dig in and sit tight, because it'll be a hell of a show. Or, to make it more SC related, this ain't no 6 pool, son, this'll be an 8 man FFA on BGH, and everyone's turtling.
*slowclap*
I disagree that this is the direction we're taking, but you make excellent points.
For now, I'm content to say that is definitely a possibility, let's see where the future takes us.
look at what you've done blizzard
Sure. BATTLE.NET IS DOWN FOR MAINTENANCE. PLEASE TRY AGAIN LATER.
Touche.
Yep.
Well in that case the first sentence of my previous post was untrue. I apologize for the deception.
"x-[building]" means "construct [building] once you have reached x supply. So, yeah, 8-pool means you build your spawning pool at 8/10 supply; that is, after you've built your first two workers.
In a case like that the number always means the amount of food you have when you build the structure. Early in games it'll mean the workers you have (since those would be your only units) but once you get into the game it'll also include the army you have.