kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
Saw a decent use of a proxy pylon near a terran's walled ramp -- protoss player walked a stalker or zealot up to the ramp and started warping in units behind the wall.
I simply poke the ramp mostly. All the terrans so far have done a mostly infantry centric build, so the important part to know is whether they favor marines or marauders. And well, which addons I can see. I used to suicide a probe for this, but poking in with stalkers is actually pretty safe, can almost always get away without dying, and sometimes annoy them a bit.
And sometimes they don't wall of course. I generally go for a pretty early observer as well, get a lot of information from that. I'm only in silver though, so maybe a proper banshee rush hits before that.
I'm really hating terran's right now, even when I have a huge advantage, I just can't push them. The only unit that seems to work at all against them is Hyrda's, like, tons of hydras. But you lose so many of them to tanks that it gets too expensive, then you don't have any cash to build a pushing force, they can just crush your ground army. If you go air, almost all of their units still do well in AA, just pump more marines and get some thors.... not to mention missle turrets
I also have played terran like 10 straight games, all of them the same... I have a huge eco advantage, but just cannot bust them. I'd mass brood lords, but... you can't do that, because you go through sooo much cash just trying to stay even with their unending unstoppable forces
Here's a question/suggestion for all the zerg out there: in ZvP, why don't more of you go muta first, instead of hydras? Most z seem to be doing a pretty fast lair now, which is good, but why don't you go spire first?
Is it for fear of phoenixes? It seems to me that you should want to prompt the P to stargate tech and then immediately tech-switch to hydras; the fast mutaharass should do good unless they have blink or phoenixes, and all you really need is to delay colossi or storm long enough for your first pack of hydras to end the game.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
Do not play TvT on the Destination remake. It might seriously be the most boring map ever. That is all.
It is the strongest map
Also for you good stream guys please to critiquing!
Sorry for being very boring but I am/was very intimidated by all of you and had never played that map before~ so I was scared shitless
This ranking system is fucking terrible. Me and my friend are like rank 20 silver 2v2, and the last 5 games we have been put against high ranking diamon players that have played over 100 games.
So I was playing 4v4 about 30 matches or so total....after all my placement matches I placed into silver. After last game it promoted me to Platinum. Now my W/L ratio isn't that good with 4v4 as I have gotten quite a few noobs who seem to want to learn playing Starcraft for the first time in 4v4s. Currently I'm at 12/26 W/L. Thought it was weird how it promoted me 2 levels like that. Anybody else have that happen to them?
I think the system really just needs more time to sort itself out.
I was a bit confused when I went 4 - 1 with a team and placed bronze though.
Maybe it was because I probe rushed against a team of double random?
We still won the game even though I got wiped out pretty early. 2 2 base zergs vs my 1 basing terran ally.
I simply poke the ramp mostly. All the terrans so far have done a mostly infantry centric build, so the important part to know is whether they favor marines or marauders. And well, which addons I can see. I used to suicide a probe for this, but poking in with stalkers is actually pretty safe, can almost always get away without dying, and sometimes annoy them a bit.
And sometimes they don't wall of course. I generally go for a pretty early observer as well, get a lot of information from that. I'm only in silver though, so maybe a proper banshee rush hits before that.
watching day9, stalkers are really fast units
do stalkers still go in front of zealots when you attack move as one large control group?
This ranking system is fucking terrible. Me and my friend are like rank 20 silver 2v2, and the last 5 games we have been put against high ranking diamon players that have played over 100 games.
Yeah THATS FUN
That's just a bug, obviously it's not the intended design of the system.
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kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
I simply poke the ramp mostly. All the terrans so far have done a mostly infantry centric build, so the important part to know is whether they favor marines or marauders. And well, which addons I can see. I used to suicide a probe for this, but poking in with stalkers is actually pretty safe, can almost always get away without dying, and sometimes annoy them a bit.
And sometimes they don't wall of course. I generally go for a pretty early observer as well, get a lot of information from that. I'm only in silver though, so maybe a proper banshee rush hits before that.
watching day9, stalkers are really fast units
do stalkers still go in front of zealots when you attack move as one large control group?
I'm really hating terran's right now, even when I have a huge advantage, I just can't push them. The only unit that seems to work at all against them is Hyrda's, like, tons of hydras. But you lose so many of them to tanks that it gets too expensive, then you don't have any cash to build a pushing force, they can just crush your ground army. If you go air, almost all of their units still do well in AA, just pump more marines and get some thors.... not to mention missle turrets
I also have played terran like 10 straight games, all of them the same... I have a huge eco advantage, but just cannot bust them. I'd mass brood lords, but... you can't do that, because you go through sooo much cash just trying to stay even with their unending unstoppable forces
Right there with you. It would help if there were more maps where there wasn't a ramp into the main; as it is, a competent terran player can build missile turrets along his outer edge evenly spaced that will kill an OL before it gets in, and 4-6 tanks plus infantry at the ramp is basically unbreakable.
This ranking system is fucking terrible. Me and my friend are like rank 20 silver 2v2, and the last 5 games we have been put against high ranking diamon players that have played over 100 games.
Yeah THATS FUN
That's just a bug, obviously it's not the intended design of the system.
I see it as battle.net 2.0 just trying to keep the fun in check.
Oh you won a couple games in a row? TIME TO GET SHIT ON FUCKER
in which case he has wasted a ton of minerals on turrets and tanks aren't exactly mobile. he shouldn't have map control in that situation unless you already handed the game to him
Hydras beat everything. Though you did kill like a million of them with those colossi. I'm still not entirely sure the corrupters were worth it, but I guess they helped take out those damn colossi, especially the one on the high ground in that final attack. By the end though, I had taken my natural, the middle again, the 6 o'clock natural, and was about to take the 6 o'clock main. I basically from my main and natural was just pumping hydras as fast as larva would spawn and be vomited.
Also, no one can beat the strategy of taking out the Mensk statue before attacking.
Edit: I was EightyEight, in case there was confusion.
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pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
in which case he has wasted a ton of minerals on turrets and tanks aren't exactly mobile. he shouldn't have map control in that situation unless you already handed the game to him
Yeah, he doesn't have map control, so you control the map, gain a huge economic advantage, mass up mutas, and hydras untill you can't mass them anyjmore, and then they are all gone in 30 seconds in any battle
then you do the same thing, because they only have two bases, they can't possibly be ready for another round... rinse repeat
I'm not saying it's unbeatable, but it feels unbeatable to me. I just haven't been able to find a good terran busting mix, it seems that you really need to tech to brood lords
Hydras beat everything. Though you did kill like a million of them with those colossi. I'm still not entirely sure the corrupters were worth it, but I guess they helped take out those damn colossi, especially the one on the high ground in that final attack. By the end though, I had taken my natural, the middle again, the 6 o'clock natural, and was about to take the 6 o'clock main. I basically from my main and natural was just pumping hydras as fast as larva would spawn and be vomited.
Also, no one can beat the strategy of taking out the Mensk statue before attacking.
Edit: I was EightyEight, in case there was confusion.
Honestly I think my mistake was not getting HT when I saw you going for hydras. Just seeing how a half dozen HT ate through an entire army of Thors/MMM/Tanks in the last game I played, I think I tend to underestimate how effective Psionic Storm is.
I'm really hating terran's right now, even when I have a huge advantage, I just can't push them. The only unit that seems to work at all against them is Hyrda's, like, tons of hydras. But you lose so many of them to tanks that it gets too expensive, then you don't have any cash to build a pushing force, they can just crush your ground army. If you go air, almost all of their units still do well in AA, just pump more marines and get some thors.... not to mention missle turrets
I also have played terran like 10 straight games, all of them the same... I have a huge eco advantage, but just cannot bust them. I'd mass brood lords, but... you can't do that, because you go through sooo much cash just trying to stay even with their unending unstoppable forces
Right there with you. It would help if there were more maps where there wasn't a ramp into the main; as it is, a competent terran player can build missile turrets along his outer edge evenly spaced that will kill an OL before it gets in, and 4-6 tanks plus infantry at the ramp is basically unbreakable.
Research overlord speed and drop, load up your big army of roach/hydra/ling/whatever, drop into his base and see the terran shit himself. Just be sure to have a bunch of sacrificial overlords go in ahead of your loaded overlords so they soak up most of the damage. This is even more devastating if you have ultralisks getting dropped onto his stuff.
As for maps with ramps, you gotta remember that without chokes or ramps it would be impossible for terran or protoss to defend against early fast ling run by. This is why maps like scrap station is such a zerg favored map, large ramps that require a lot of buildings to effectively wall off, and long rush distance allowing the zerg to easily secure the natural expansion.
This is even more devastating if you have ultralisks getting dropped onto his stuff
I hope when the game ships all my friends are still there. I've literally added everyone on the PA friend list. Having to type them all in again will suck!
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I feel about Psionic storm like I feel about Banelings. It's so goddamn risky. If you storm right and the Zerg doesn't micro, then like, super perfect. If the storm doesn't hit then you spent a billion minerals for a pretty visual.
I've actually never run into HT though, so I don't even know what I would've done to counter that.
I hope when the game ships all my friends are still there. I've literally added everyone on the PA friend list. Having to type them all in again will suck!
It will be fun to type all the names with the new random numbers after we all have to remake our characters.
I hope when the game ships all my friends are still there. I've literally added everyone on the PA friend list. Having to type them all in again will suck!
I hope when the game ships all my friends are still there. I've literally added everyone on the PA friend list. Having to type them all in again will suck!
But then you decline the invite to the lobby. =(
Say what? I had a lobby request? If it was just now, I'm sorry. I have to get some sleep!
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Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
I'm really hating terran's right now, even when I have a huge advantage, I just can't push them. The only unit that seems to work at all against them is Hyrda's, like, tons of hydras. But you lose so many of them to tanks that it gets too expensive, then you don't have any cash to build a pushing force, they can just crush your ground army. If you go air, almost all of their units still do well in AA, just pump more marines and get some thors.... not to mention missle turrets
I also have played terran like 10 straight games, all of them the same... I have a huge eco advantage, but just cannot bust them. I'd mass brood lords, but... you can't do that, because you go through sooo much cash just trying to stay even with their unending unstoppable forces
Right there with you. It would help if there were more maps where there wasn't a ramp into the main; as it is, a competent terran player can build missile turrets along his outer edge evenly spaced that will kill an OL before it gets in, and 4-6 tanks plus infantry at the ramp is basically unbreakable.
Research overlord speed and drop, load up your big army of roach/hydra/ling/whatever, drop into his base and see the terran shit himself. Just be sure to have a bunch of sacrificial overlords go in ahead of your loaded overlords so they soak up most of the damage. This is even more devastating if you have ultralisks getting dropped onto his stuff.
As for maps with ramps, you gotta remember that without chokes or ramps it would be impossible for terran or protoss to defend against early fast ling run by. This is why maps like scrap station is such a zerg favored map, large ramps that require a lot of buildings to effectively wall off, and long rush distance allowing the zerg to easily secure the natural expansion.
This is even more devastating if you have ultralisks getting dropped onto his stuff
Tight chokes (as on Kulas Ravine) feel much better balanced than ramps. Ramps just fuck ranged units.
I tried a flat choke on a map I made with a highground nat nearby. Didn't work.
Everyone learnt in two games how to abuse the highground natural to pin people in their main.
Also after I go get lunch with a friend I am about to embark on a best of 21 series against a different friend.
This could take hours.
This ranking system is fucking terrible. Me and my friend are like rank 20 silver 2v2, and the last 5 games we have been put against high ranking diamon players that have played over 100 games.
Yeah THATS FUN
That's just a bug, obviously it's not the intended design of the system.
I see it as battle.net 2.0 just trying to keep the fun in check.
Oh you won a couple games in a row? TIME TO GET SHIT ON FUCKER
There's only so many people in the beta, and it's geared more towards finding you a game relatively quickly rather than making you wait forever just to have a super even match
I'm sure it'll work better after release when there is a larger player base
Me and my friend placed high gold due to only playing clowns in the placement. Now to play a fuckload of losing games until we get down to low silver, where we should be. It's going to be like working, on my free time
I swear to god I'm going to throw all my matches when I get around to play 1on1, this shit is not fine with me.
I'm guessing that by day 4-5 or so of the release the placements will be more correct in putting you where you belong though. So I'll file this under another one of those minor beta nuisances.
[EDIT] Oooh, I just remembered why I actually came in here before I started whining. Would you fine people please give me some good SC2 replay sites? Preferably where some high level replays can be found. I really really suck at this game right now and need to watch good people play. I need to see how people counter stuff.
This ranking system is fucking terrible. Me and my friend are like rank 20 silver 2v2, and the last 5 games we have been put against high ranking diamon players that have played over 100 games.
Yeah THATS FUN
That's just a bug, obviously it's not the intended design of the system.
I see it as battle.net 2.0 just trying to keep the fun in check.
Oh you won a couple games in a row? TIME TO GET SHIT ON FUCKER
Weird. I seem to be having a much easier time in Silver than I did in Bronze. Currently sitting at 4th in Silver, and fully expect to place gold tonight.
Anyone know of any cool P opening builds that don't involve 4 gating or 3 gate robo? So far I find that if I don't get an ass-ton of units out the door straight away against T I get rolled by a bioball in the first 6 minutes.
Spaffy: against T, I go 3 gate robo mainly. Robo is the safe build in general. If they go mainly marauders, gateway units + immortals do just fine, if they go mainly marines you'll need colossi or storm. OTOH, if you go fast colossi you really only need two gates; two colossi kill a /lot/ of marines with any support at all.
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Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
Spaffy: against T, I go 3 gate robo mainly. Robo is the safe build in general. If they go mainly marauders, gateway units + immortals do just fine, if they go mainly marines you'll need colossi or storm. OTOH, if you go fast colossi you really only need two gates; two colossi kill a /lot/ of marines with any support at all.
Yeah, that's kind of what I end up doing. Once the robo is up and producing I get Zealot legs ASAP then improvise from there. I just find that I have to be very fast if I'm to keep up even against fairly low level players.
in which case he has wasted a ton of minerals on turrets and tanks aren't exactly mobile. he shouldn't have map control in that situation unless you already handed the game to him
Yeah, he doesn't have map control, so you control the map, gain a huge economic advantage, mass up mutas, and hydras untill you can't mass them anyjmore, and then they are all gone in 30 seconds in any battle
then you do the same thing, because they only have two bases, they can't possibly be ready for another round... rinse repeat
I'm not saying it's unbeatable, but it feels unbeatable to me. I just haven't been able to find a good terran busting mix, it seems that you really need to tech to brood lords
A few broodlords + a bunch of hydras. You start taking out stuff on the edge of his base with the broodlords while keeping the hydras nearby but out of combat. As soon as you see vikings getting near your broodlords you move them back and move forward with your hydras. Even if they keep focusing on your lords the hydras will take out the vikings in a matter of seconds.
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I simply poke the ramp mostly. All the terrans so far have done a mostly infantry centric build, so the important part to know is whether they favor marines or marauders. And well, which addons I can see. I used to suicide a probe for this, but poking in with stalkers is actually pretty safe, can almost always get away without dying, and sometimes annoy them a bit.
And sometimes they don't wall of course. I generally go for a pretty early observer as well, get a lot of information from that. I'm only in silver though, so maybe a proper banshee rush hits before that.
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Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
I also have played terran like 10 straight games, all of them the same... I have a huge eco advantage, but just cannot bust them. I'd mass brood lords, but... you can't do that, because you go through sooo much cash just trying to stay even with their unending unstoppable forces
ugh... please let me play a non-terran for once
edit: feel better, just hammered a clown
Is it for fear of phoenixes? It seems to me that you should want to prompt the P to stargate tech and then immediately tech-switch to hydras; the fast mutaharass should do good unless they have blink or phoenixes, and all you really need is to delay colossi or storm long enough for your first pack of hydras to end the game.
Do not play TvT on the Destination remake. It might seriously be the most boring map ever. That is all.
It is the strongest map
Also for you good stream guys please to critiquing!
Sorry for being very boring but I am/was very intimidated by all of you and had never played that map before~ so I was scared shitless
Yeah THATS FUN
I was a bit confused when I went 4 - 1 with a team and placed bronze though.
Maybe it was because I probe rushed against a team of double random?
We still won the game even though I got wiped out pretty early. 2 2 base zergs vs my 1 basing terran ally.
watching day9, stalkers are really fast units
do stalkers still go in front of zealots when you attack move as one large control group?
That's just a bug, obviously it's not the intended design of the system.
stalkers have a speed of 2.95, zealots are 2.25, 2.75 after the charge upgrade. reference https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aj5frpmpgU-5dFhyUWpKMDluSTRkWUxDb2ZlUFB0NGc&hl=en#gid=0
Units don't slow down when moving with other units.
I see it as battle.net 2.0 just trying to keep the fun in check.
Oh you won a couple games in a row? TIME TO GET SHIT ON FUCKER
Hydras beat everything. Though you did kill like a million of them with those colossi. I'm still not entirely sure the corrupters were worth it, but I guess they helped take out those damn colossi, especially the one on the high ground in that final attack. By the end though, I had taken my natural, the middle again, the 6 o'clock natural, and was about to take the 6 o'clock main. I basically from my main and natural was just pumping hydras as fast as larva would spawn and be vomited.
Also, no one can beat the strategy of taking out the Mensk statue before attacking.
Edit: I was EightyEight, in case there was confusion.
abstrakt.934
Yeah, he doesn't have map control, so you control the map, gain a huge economic advantage, mass up mutas, and hydras untill you can't mass them anyjmore, and then they are all gone in 30 seconds in any battle
then you do the same thing, because they only have two bases, they can't possibly be ready for another round... rinse repeat
I'm not saying it's unbeatable, but it feels unbeatable to me. I just haven't been able to find a good terran busting mix, it seems that you really need to tech to brood lords
Honestly I think my mistake was not getting HT when I saw you going for hydras. Just seeing how a half dozen HT ate through an entire army of Thors/MMM/Tanks in the last game I played, I think I tend to underestimate how effective Psionic Storm is.
Research overlord speed and drop, load up your big army of roach/hydra/ling/whatever, drop into his base and see the terran shit himself. Just be sure to have a bunch of sacrificial overlords go in ahead of your loaded overlords so they soak up most of the damage. This is even more devastating if you have ultralisks getting dropped onto his stuff.
As for maps with ramps, you gotta remember that without chokes or ramps it would be impossible for terran or protoss to defend against early fast ling run by. This is why maps like scrap station is such a zerg favored map, large ramps that require a lot of buildings to effectively wall off, and long rush distance allowing the zerg to easily secure the natural expansion.
This is even more devastating if you have ultralisks getting dropped onto his stuff
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Anyone else have a problem with this?
AKA [PA]Ilovepandas
I've actually never run into HT though, so I don't even know what I would've done to counter that.
It will be fun to type all the names with the new random numbers after we all have to remake our characters.
But then you decline the invite to the lobby. =(
Say what? I had a lobby request? If it was just now, I'm sorry. I have to get some sleep!
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Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
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Tight chokes (as on Kulas Ravine) feel much better balanced than ramps. Ramps just fuck ranged units.
Everyone learnt in two games how to abuse the highground natural to pin people in their main.
Also after I go get lunch with a friend I am about to embark on a best of 21 series against a different friend.
This could take hours.
There's only so many people in the beta, and it's geared more towards finding you a game relatively quickly rather than making you wait forever just to have a super even match
I'm sure it'll work better after release when there is a larger player base
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
I swear to god I'm going to throw all my matches when I get around to play 1on1, this shit is not fine with me.
I'm guessing that by day 4-5 or so of the release the placements will be more correct in putting you where you belong though. So I'll file this under another one of those minor beta nuisances.
[EDIT] Oooh, I just remembered why I actually came in here before I started whining. Would you fine people please give me some good SC2 replay sites? Preferably where some high level replays can be found. I really really suck at this game right now and need to watch good people play. I need to see how people counter stuff.
i keep dropping out of team games
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Anyone know of any cool P opening builds that don't involve 4 gating or 3 gate robo? So far I find that if I don't get an ass-ton of units out the door straight away against T I get rolled by a bioball in the first 6 minutes.
Also, Void Ray rushing: It doesn't work anymore.
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Yeah, that's kind of what I end up doing. Once the robo is up and producing I get Zealot legs ASAP then improvise from there. I just find that I have to be very fast if I'm to keep up even against fairly low level players.
Steam: adamjnet
A few broodlords + a bunch of hydras. You start taking out stuff on the edge of his base with the broodlords while keeping the hydras nearby but out of combat. As soon as you see vikings getting near your broodlords you move them back and move forward with your hydras. Even if they keep focusing on your lords the hydras will take out the vikings in a matter of seconds.
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