I never put too much stock in APM, although it is kinda interesting to see it in replays now. I was in Diamond and would often beat people with ~2x my APM (I would be around 50).
I would watch their perspectives in the replay and they would just be clicking like 8 times for a unit to move to one spot. Then they would do this ridiculous click-spamming at the beginning when nothing was happening. Somehow their redundant commands wouldn't save them when my army came over and started raping their base.
The beta needs to get back soon, because my SC2 craving is starting to become intense.
it is hard not to be doing 50 apm when you have two bases going
Yea 50 APM is bad. I currently have about 100-130 and I SUCK (low level Diamond).
To give examples (mind you I have replays sitting around of all these guys to check)
HuK: 250-310 APM
CatZ: 175-200
Joseki: 320-350
Artosis: 170-200
This game requires insane APM. For all the ppl screaming about DoW2 your insane. DoW2 requires like 90 APM tops. How do I know? Well Lord Lokgar is part of my team and is one of the best DoW2 players out there so I can just ask him these things.
Yeah, I mean just watch some high level games of DoW2 and it's pretty apparent right from the start that it doesn't require nearly as much APM. There just isn't the sheer volume of micro going on in the style of gameplay promoted by DoW2.
If you have a G15 keyboard you could probably make a key V and also start a 40 second timer that plays a sound at the end of the timer.
I don't have one of them, but I assume that's within its abilities.
I just bought a g110 and the only macro I've made is one that selects a manually made group of queens and insta-cycles through all the hatches and spawns larva. As to how useful this will be in game situations, we'll see.
I currently have about 100-130 and I SUCK (low level [highest rank there is])
I really feel like they should do something about this. There are several kinds of crystals, come on.
Or people can stop being silly geese and whining about how they suck in comparison to the best players in the world. As time goes on the league divisions will get better anyway.
I never put too much stock in APM, although it is kinda interesting to see it in replays now. I was in Diamond and would often beat people with ~2x my APM (I would be around 50).
I would watch their perspectives in the replay and they would just be clicking like 8 times for a unit to move to one spot. Then they would do this ridiculous click-spamming at the beginning when nothing was happening. Somehow their redundant commands wouldn't save them when my army came over and started raping their base.
The beta needs to get back soon, because my SC2 craving is starting to become intense.
I agree with you. Even when you watch pro replays you see tons and tons of redudnant clicking. I mean there is definitely a threshold somewhere, I'd personally guess around 100 APM is needed, but like 300? I mean really thats just overkill.
CasedOut on
0
ZarathustraEckUbermenschnow with stripes!Registered Userregular
I never put too much stock in APM, although it is kinda interesting to see it in replays now. I was in Diamond and would often beat people with ~2x my APM (I would be around 50).
I would watch their perspectives in the replay and they would just be clicking like 8 times for a unit to move to one spot. Then they would do this ridiculous click-spamming at the beginning when nothing was happening. Somehow their redundant commands wouldn't save them when my army came over and started raping their base.
The beta needs to get back soon, because my SC2 craving is starting to become intense.
I agree with you. Even when you watch pro replays you see tons and tons of redudnant clicking. I mean there is definitely a threshold somewhere, I'd personally guess around 100 APM is needed, but like 300? I mean really thats just overkill.
That's the thing that gets me. People are tooting their APM vuzuvelas and pointing out the huge APM of the professionals... and then you watch a replay and see a TON of redundant clicks.
Those who defend the overclicking say things like, "oh, the pros warm up. They click all over to keep their hands moving." That's all well and good, but it throws any mean APM out the window for a game. Show me what their APM is like in combat, during heavy micromanagement, and then we'll talk. But until then, I hold that the useless clicks skew numbers.
Maybe I should start touting my low APM, and how I manage to scout with only 1/10th of the clicks the pros use?
but you can't deny that they do more stuff than you in a similar timespan
i'm not tooting an apm vuvuzela, just pointing out that while apm isn't the end-all, be-all, you still need to be aware that you should be trying to maximize your actions that you are performing at any given moment
(and yes pros do warm up in the beginning, but if you go into something like minute 20 of a match and look at all of the different expos and watch as they almost never miss a production cycle, you can see where apm really helps)
(although for the vast majority of players quality strategery and fundamentals will carry you far)
I never put too much stock in APM, although it is kinda interesting to see it in replays now. I was in Diamond and would often beat people with ~2x my APM (I would be around 50).
I would watch their perspectives in the replay and they would just be clicking like 8 times for a unit to move to one spot. Then they would do this ridiculous click-spamming at the beginning when nothing was happening. Somehow their redundant commands wouldn't save them when my army came over and started raping their base.
The beta needs to get back soon, because my SC2 craving is starting to become intense.
I agree with you. Even when you watch pro replays you see tons and tons of redudnant clicking. I mean there is definitely a threshold somewhere, I'd personally guess around 100 APM is needed, but like 300? I mean really thats just overkill.
That's the thing that gets me. People are tooting their APM vuzuvelas and pointing out the huge APM of the professionals... and then you watch a replay and see a TON of redundant clicks.
Those who defend the overclicking say things like, "oh, the pros warm up. They click all over to keep their hands moving." That's all well and good, but it throws any mean APM out the window for a game. Show me what their APM is like in combat, during heavy micromanagement, and then we'll talk. But until then, I hold that the useless clicks skew numbers.
Maybe I should start touting my low APM, and how I manage to scout with only 1/10th of the clicks the pros use?
I'm at work so can't load up youtube but check out things like boxer's battlecruiser lockdown or 'most storms ever' and think about the micro-management that goes into that
There is a reason high APM is touted, yes a lot of it is early filler and warming up to keep averages, but when 2 pro-koreans go at it with 200/200 armies, it shows.
Also, I don't know about you guys, but I think I'm most excited for the new campaign. I haven't had a good single player RTS campaign in ages.
I really enjoyed the campaign for Company of Heroes / Opposing Fronts. But yeah, it looks like they're ramping things up quite a bit for this one. I like the Wing Commander style between mission activity hub.
subedii on
0
ZarathustraEckUbermenschnow with stripes!Registered Userregular
I never put too much stock in APM, although it is kinda interesting to see it in replays now. I was in Diamond and would often beat people with ~2x my APM (I would be around 50).
I would watch their perspectives in the replay and they would just be clicking like 8 times for a unit to move to one spot. Then they would do this ridiculous click-spamming at the beginning when nothing was happening. Somehow their redundant commands wouldn't save them when my army came over and started raping their base.
The beta needs to get back soon, because my SC2 craving is starting to become intense.
I agree with you. Even when you watch pro replays you see tons and tons of redudnant clicking. I mean there is definitely a threshold somewhere, I'd personally guess around 100 APM is needed, but like 300? I mean really thats just overkill.
That's the thing that gets me. People are tooting their APM vuzuvelas and pointing out the huge APM of the professionals... and then you watch a replay and see a TON of redundant clicks.
Those who defend the overclicking say things like, "oh, the pros warm up. They click all over to keep their hands moving." That's all well and good, but it throws any mean APM out the window for a game. Show me what their APM is like in combat, during heavy micromanagement, and then we'll talk. But until then, I hold that the useless clicks skew numbers.
Maybe I should start touting my low APM, and how I manage to scout with only 1/10th of the clicks the pros use?
I'm at work so can't load up youtube but check out things like boxer's battlecruiser lockdown or 'most storms ever' and think about the micro-management that goes into that
There is a reason high APM is touted, yes a lot of it is early filler and warming up to keep averages, but when 2 pro-koreans go at it with 200/200 armies, it shows.
Oh, I'm not saying APM is useless, nor am I saying the pros aren't better than I *snicker*. I'm just saying I put way more faith in the actual in-battle APM than any average that includes a ton of extra clicks just for the sake of clicking. I mean, I could gain a ton of APM by rerouting my mining rally point 80 times between each worker produced and clicking another 80 every time I want a scout to change directions. That would increase my mean APM. It would also be pointless.
I never put too much stock in APM, although it is kinda interesting to see it in replays now. I was in Diamond and would often beat people with ~2x my APM (I would be around 50).
I would watch their perspectives in the replay and they would just be clicking like 8 times for a unit to move to one spot. Then they would do this ridiculous click-spamming at the beginning when nothing was happening. Somehow their redundant commands wouldn't save them when my army came over and started raping their base.
The beta needs to get back soon, because my SC2 craving is starting to become intense.
I agree with you. Even when you watch pro replays you see tons and tons of redudnant clicking. I mean there is definitely a threshold somewhere, I'd personally guess around 100 APM is needed, but like 300? I mean really thats just overkill.
That's the thing that gets me. People are tooting their APM vuzuvelas and pointing out the huge APM of the professionals... and then you watch a replay and see a TON of redundant clicks.
Those who defend the overclicking say things like, "oh, the pros warm up. They click all over to keep their hands moving." That's all well and good, but it throws any mean APM out the window for a game. Show me what their APM is like in combat, during heavy micromanagement, and then we'll talk. But until then, I hold that the useless clicks skew numbers.
Maybe I should start touting my low APM, and how I manage to scout with only 1/10th of the clicks the pros use?
I'm at work so can't load up youtube but check out things like boxer's battlecruiser lockdown or 'most storms ever' and think about the micro-management that goes into that
There is a reason high APM is touted, yes a lot of it is early filler and warming up to keep averages, but when 2 pro-koreans go at it with 200/200 armies, it shows.
Oh, I'm not saying APM is useless, nor am I saying the pros aren't better than I *snicker*. I'm just saying I put way more faith in the actual in-battle APM than any average that includes a ton of extra clicks just for the sake of clicking. I mean, I could gain a ton of APM by rerouting my mining rally point 80 times between each worker produced and clicking another 80 every time I want a scout to change directions. That would increase my mean APM. It would also be pointless.
Again, high APM is taken as an indicator of skill as it shows that you can keep up a consistent and very quick pace. This APM is generally what's used to gauge how good a player is at macro and micro. If they were only to go through their high APM in battles then the average would be far lower and coaches and observers wouldn't know what a player's potential or actual quickness would be.
I never put too much stock in APM, although it is kinda interesting to see it in replays now. I was in Diamond and would often beat people with ~2x my APM (I would be around 50).
I would watch their perspectives in the replay and they would just be clicking like 8 times for a unit to move to one spot. Then they would do this ridiculous click-spamming at the beginning when nothing was happening. Somehow their redundant commands wouldn't save them when my army came over and started raping their base.
The beta needs to get back soon, because my SC2 craving is starting to become intense.
I agree with you. Even when you watch pro replays you see tons and tons of redudnant clicking. I mean there is definitely a threshold somewhere, I'd personally guess around 100 APM is needed, but like 300? I mean really thats just overkill.
That's the thing that gets me. People are tooting their APM vuzuvelas and pointing out the huge APM of the professionals... and then you watch a replay and see a TON of redundant clicks.
Those who defend the overclicking say things like, "oh, the pros warm up. They click all over to keep their hands moving." That's all well and good, but it throws any mean APM out the window for a game. Show me what their APM is like in combat, during heavy micromanagement, and then we'll talk. But until then, I hold that the useless clicks skew numbers.
Maybe I should start touting my low APM, and how I manage to scout with only 1/10th of the clicks the pros use?
I'm at work so can't load up youtube but check out things like boxer's battlecruiser lockdown or 'most storms ever' and think about the micro-management that goes into that
There is a reason high APM is touted, yes a lot of it is early filler and warming up to keep averages, but when 2 pro-koreans go at it with 200/200 armies, it shows.
Oh, I'm not saying APM is useless, nor am I saying the pros aren't better than I *snicker*. I'm just saying I put way more faith in the actual in-battle APM than any average that includes a ton of extra clicks just for the sake of clicking. I mean, I could gain a ton of APM by rerouting my mining rally point 80 times between each worker produced and clicking another 80 every time I want a scout to change directions. That would increase my mean APM. It would also be pointless.
Again, high APM is taken as an indicator of skill as it shows that you can keep up a consistent and very quick pace. This APM is generally what's used to gauge how good a player is at macro and micro. If they were only to go through their high APM in battles then the average would be far lower so coaches and observers wouldn't know what their potential is.
But shifting a mining rally point 80 times in between workers demonstrates potential? The redundant clicks are my point.
I never put too much stock in APM, although it is kinda interesting to see it in replays now. I was in Diamond and would often beat people with ~2x my APM (I would be around 50).
I would watch their perspectives in the replay and they would just be clicking like 8 times for a unit to move to one spot. Then they would do this ridiculous click-spamming at the beginning when nothing was happening. Somehow their redundant commands wouldn't save them when my army came over and started raping their base.
The beta needs to get back soon, because my SC2 craving is starting to become intense.
I agree with you. Even when you watch pro replays you see tons and tons of redudnant clicking. I mean there is definitely a threshold somewhere, I'd personally guess around 100 APM is needed, but like 300? I mean really thats just overkill.
That's the thing that gets me. People are tooting their APM vuzuvelas and pointing out the huge APM of the professionals... and then you watch a replay and see a TON of redundant clicks.
Those who defend the overclicking say things like, "oh, the pros warm up. They click all over to keep their hands moving." That's all well and good, but it throws any mean APM out the window for a game. Show me what their APM is like in combat, during heavy micromanagement, and then we'll talk. But until then, I hold that the useless clicks skew numbers.
Maybe I should start touting my low APM, and how I manage to scout with only 1/10th of the clicks the pros use?
I'm at work so can't load up youtube but check out things like boxer's battlecruiser lockdown or 'most storms ever' and think about the micro-management that goes into that
There is a reason high APM is touted, yes a lot of it is early filler and warming up to keep averages, but when 2 pro-koreans go at it with 200/200 armies, it shows.
Oh, I'm not saying APM is useless, nor am I saying the pros aren't better than I *snicker*. I'm just saying I put way more faith in the actual in-battle APM than any average that includes a ton of extra clicks just for the sake of clicking. I mean, I could gain a ton of APM by rerouting my mining rally point 80 times between each worker produced and clicking another 80 every time I want a scout to change directions. That would increase my mean APM. It would also be pointless.
Again, high APM is taken as an indicator of skill as it shows that you can keep up a consistent and very quick pace. This APM is generally what's used to gauge how good a player is at macro and micro. If they were only to go through their high APM in battles then the average would be far lower so coaches and observers wouldn't know what their potential is.
But shifting a mining rally point 80 times in between workers demonstrates potential? The redundant clicks are my point.
I just said average APM is used as a potential, they have to keep up an average APM to be used as an indicator of what they can actually dooooooooo. It's math.
but because it's an average over the whole game, a small timeframe of spamming (before you have something like 20 food is a good guesstimate of how long some pros will spam their rally and such, and i'm even thinking that's a bit long) doesn't really equate into the big picture
sure, there are some people who spam all game long to inflate their apm, but who cares about them -- i don't think anyone is saying that if you have a higher apm than someone, you are better than that
we all know that strategy and fundamentals comes into play way larger than apm
but apm is significant enough that it should never be thrown by the wayside
I think the beginning click spamming/shift selecting while the first few drones pop out of each game is some sort of bizarre tradition. The bottom line is if you aren't capable of going beyond 10 apm at any given moment, you are going to get owned at some point. And if you are averaging over 100 apm but don't understand macro, you are going to get owned at some point.
No one at the end of any game, especially professional, is going to say "Well the guy with 20 APM average beat the guy with 200 APM, but the higher APM player is still better." And if they do they are probably immature and/or don't understand the game.
I too have beaten many people with way higher APM, leaving me to wonder, just what the hell were they doing? I've probably lost to people with less APM than me too. I'm at about 40-60 APM average in a game, but I almost always only click once on everything. It doesn't bother me, and I don't intend to inflate it.
We so need the game to come back up so we can focus our attention on how OP siege tanks are.
50 apm = someone who uses the mouse for everything
75 apm = they've discovered hotkeys, but are getting used to em
100+ = Proficiency?
Pop quiz hotshot, there's a bomb in your PC. Once you hit 150 apm, the bomb is armed. If it drops below 150...it blows up. What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO?!
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
Pop quiz hotshot, there's a bomb in your PC. Once you hit 150 apm, the bomb is armed. If it drops below 150...it blows up. What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO?!
Some people used to practice like that in SC1. Except it was more like 250 apm.
Dangerisk on
If what you say is true, the Shaolin and the Wu-Tang could be DANGERISK.
The Starcrack AI stuff isn't actually all too bad on the higher difficulties.
Also, you already lose if you have more than 1k minerals, it just takes 5 minutes to find out.
Hard is a mild challenge except that they all follow the exact same build routines. Insane is stupid. I'm not going to legitimately learn anything from a computer that has a 2x mine hax. It does pass the time though....
All this APM discussion is silly. APM matters but it does not. You will NOT see someone with 50 APM tearing up the pros. Than again a person with 350 APM will not necessarily beat someone with 250 APM.
The reason people spam at the beginning of the game is to keep their hands warm and be ready for when they need to go into turbo mode.
Good players spam their APM simply to stay warmed up, so they can transition into frantic combat situations more easily. It's about being better at the game. It's only the wannabe pros that place actual value in APM itself, and spam commands because they like seeing a high number in the replay.
Whilst it's extremely impressive the way that's done, watching that my brain keeps thinking "Health bars? You whippersnapper kids, in my Metal Slug we avoid getting hit!"
The Starcrack AI stuff isn't actually all too bad on the higher difficulties.
Also, you already lose if you have more than 1k minerals, it just takes 5 minutes to find out.
Hard is a mild challenge except that they all follow the exact same build routines. Insane is stupid. I'm not going to legitimately learn anything from a computer that has a 2x mine hax. It does pass the time though....
Hard actually managed to surprise me. I saw it 10-pool and expected a Speedling rush, and instead after it killed my scout it went heavy into Roach, and my hellions looked a little silly there.
Whilst it's extremely impressive the way that's done, watching that my brain keeps thinking "Health bars? You whippersnapper kids, in my Metal Slug we avoid getting hit!"
Posts
I would watch their perspectives in the replay and they would just be clicking like 8 times for a unit to move to one spot. Then they would do this ridiculous click-spamming at the beginning when nothing was happening. Somehow their redundant commands wouldn't save them when my army came over and started raping their base.
The beta needs to get back soon, because my SC2 craving is starting to become intense.
If you have a G15 keyboard you could probably make a key V and also start a 40 second timer that plays a sound at the end of the timer.
I don't have one of them, but I assume that's within its abilities.
mp3 file that makes a tone at the 40 second mark.
Insert it into your favorite mp3 player with repeat on and bind some keyboard keys to play and stop.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
Yeah, I mean just watch some high level games of DoW2 and it's pretty apparent right from the start that it doesn't require nearly as much APM. There just isn't the sheer volume of micro going on in the style of gameplay promoted by DoW2.
I just bought a g110 and the only macro I've made is one that selects a manually made group of queens and insta-cycles through all the hatches and spawns larva. As to how useful this will be in game situations, we'll see.
Or people can stop being silly geese and whining about how they suck in comparison to the best players in the world. As time goes on the league divisions will get better anyway.
I agree with you. Even when you watch pro replays you see tons and tons of redudnant clicking. I mean there is definitely a threshold somewhere, I'd personally guess around 100 APM is needed, but like 300? I mean really thats just overkill.
That's the thing that gets me. People are tooting their APM vuzuvelas and pointing out the huge APM of the professionals... and then you watch a replay and see a TON of redundant clicks.
Those who defend the overclicking say things like, "oh, the pros warm up. They click all over to keep their hands moving." That's all well and good, but it throws any mean APM out the window for a game. Show me what their APM is like in combat, during heavy micromanagement, and then we'll talk. But until then, I hold that the useless clicks skew numbers.
Maybe I should start touting my low APM, and how I manage to scout with only 1/10th of the clicks the pros use?
-Z
but you can't deny that they do more stuff than you in a similar timespan
i'm not tooting an apm vuvuzela, just pointing out that while apm isn't the end-all, be-all, you still need to be aware that you should be trying to maximize your actions that you are performing at any given moment
(and yes pros do warm up in the beginning, but if you go into something like minute 20 of a match and look at all of the different expos and watch as they almost never miss a production cycle, you can see where apm really helps)
(although for the vast majority of players quality strategery and fundamentals will carry you far)
(i've been coding in lisp)
Good decisions on when and what to click = quite helpful
Good decisions on when and what to click AND high APM = stellar
That's the way the cookie crumbles.
Also, I don't know about you guys, but I think I'm most excited for the new campaign. I haven't had a good single player RTS campaign in ages.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
I'm at work so can't load up youtube but check out things like boxer's battlecruiser lockdown or 'most storms ever' and think about the micro-management that goes into that
There is a reason high APM is touted, yes a lot of it is early filler and warming up to keep averages, but when 2 pro-koreans go at it with 200/200 armies, it shows.
I really enjoyed the campaign for Company of Heroes / Opposing Fronts. But yeah, it looks like they're ramping things up quite a bit for this one. I like the Wing Commander style between mission activity hub.
Oh, I'm not saying APM is useless, nor am I saying the pros aren't better than I *snicker*. I'm just saying I put way more faith in the actual in-battle APM than any average that includes a ton of extra clicks just for the sake of clicking. I mean, I could gain a ton of APM by rerouting my mining rally point 80 times between each worker produced and clicking another 80 every time I want a scout to change directions. That would increase my mean APM. It would also be pointless.
-Z
Again, high APM is taken as an indicator of skill as it shows that you can keep up a consistent and very quick pace. This APM is generally what's used to gauge how good a player is at macro and micro. If they were only to go through their high APM in battles then the average would be far lower and coaches and observers wouldn't know what a player's potential or actual quickness would be.
But shifting a mining rally point 80 times in between workers demonstrates potential? The redundant clicks are my point.
-Z
I just said average APM is used as a potential, they have to keep up an average APM to be used as an indicator of what they can actually dooooooooo. It's math.
but because it's an average over the whole game, a small timeframe of spamming (before you have something like 20 food is a good guesstimate of how long some pros will spam their rally and such, and i'm even thinking that's a bit long) doesn't really equate into the big picture
sure, there are some people who spam all game long to inflate their apm, but who cares about them -- i don't think anyone is saying that if you have a higher apm than someone, you are better than that
we all know that strategy and fundamentals comes into play way larger than apm
but apm is significant enough that it should never be thrown by the wayside
No one at the end of any game, especially professional, is going to say "Well the guy with 20 APM average beat the guy with 200 APM, but the higher APM player is still better." And if they do they are probably immature and/or don't understand the game.
I too have beaten many people with way higher APM, leaving me to wonder, just what the hell were they doing? I've probably lost to people with less APM than me too. I'm at about 40-60 APM average in a game, but I almost always only click once on everything. It doesn't bother me, and I don't intend to inflate it.
We so need the game to come back up so we can focus our attention on how OP siege tanks are.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
75 apm = they've discovered hotkeys, but are getting used to em
100+ = Proficiency?
Pop quiz hotshot, there's a bomb in your PC. Once you hit 150 apm, the bomb is armed. If it drops below 150...it blows up. What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO?!
because i actually love those kind of things
Also, you already lose if you have more than 1k minerals, it just takes 5 minutes to find out.
Some people used to practice like that in SC1. Except it was more like 250 apm.
Unless you're Zerg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAvZlonNTDg
And we're only in Beta!
Hard is a mild challenge except that they all follow the exact same build routines. Insane is stupid. I'm not going to legitimately learn anything from a computer that has a 2x mine hax. It does pass the time though....
The reason people spam at the beginning of the game is to keep their hands warm and be ready for when they need to go into turbo mode.
Whilst it's extremely impressive the way that's done, watching that my brain keeps thinking "Health bars? You whippersnapper kids, in my Metal Slug we avoid getting hit!"
e: There's going to be 2 player shiiiit
Hard actually managed to surprise me. I saw it 10-pool and expected a Speedling rush, and instead after it killed my scout it went heavy into Roach, and my hellions looked a little silly there.
wait.. that's a custom map someone made??? sweet jesus!
THIS SO HARD.
hopefully that gets figured out
PSN: Robo_Wizard1