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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I just heard a rumor that SC2 will be in my hands in 25 days. Holy shit!

    MNC Dover on
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  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Lemming wrote: »
    You guys I just realized today that the only black people in Starcraft are SCVs and rocket black people

    You have to go back to the beginning, man. If you go re-read the Starcraft 1 manual, in the backstory it's very implicit that the Terrans in the Koprulu Sector were originally convicts, loaded onto colonization ships. So, while you're trying to troll via race card, you failed to recognize the obvious implications:

    In the future, most criminals are white.

    Houn on
  • kaleeditykaleedity Sometimes science is more art than science Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Houn wrote: »
    Lemming wrote: »
    You guys I just realized today that the only black people in Starcraft are SCVs and rocket black people

    You have to go back to the beginning, man. If you go re-read the Starcraft 1 manual, in the backstory it's very implicit that the Terrans in the Koprulu Sector were originally convicts, loaded onto colonization ships. So, while you're trying to troll via race card, you failed to recognize the obvious implications:

    In the future, most criminals are white.

    also southern

    kaleedity on
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    kaleedity wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    Lemming wrote: »
    You guys I just realized today that the only black people in Starcraft are SCVs and rocket black people

    You have to go back to the beginning, man. If you go re-read the Starcraft 1 manual, in the backstory it's very implicit that the Terrans in the Koprulu Sector were originally convicts, loaded onto colonization ships. So, while you're trying to troll via race card, you failed to recognize the obvious implications:

    In the future, most criminals are white.

    also southern

    Well, some things never change.

    Houn on
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Houn wrote: »
    kaleedity wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    Lemming wrote: »
    You guys I just realized today that the only black people in Starcraft are SCVs and rocket black people

    You have to go back to the beginning, man. If you go re-read the Starcraft 1 manual, in the backstory it's very implicit that the Terrans in the Koprulu Sector were originally convicts, loaded onto colonization ships. So, while you're trying to troll via race card, you failed to recognize the obvious implications:

    In the future, most criminals are white.

    also southern

    Well, some things never change.

    War, for instance.

    Rend on
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    beta... I need sc2 beta... it can't be much longer

    Jars on
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Rend wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    kaleedity wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    Lemming wrote: »
    You guys I just realized today that the only black people in Starcraft are SCVs and rocket black people

    You have to go back to the beginning, man. If you go re-read the Starcraft 1 manual, in the backstory it's very implicit that the Terrans in the Koprulu Sector were originally convicts, loaded onto colonization ships. So, while you're trying to troll via race card, you failed to recognize the obvious implications:

    In the future, most criminals are white.

    also southern

    Well, some things never change.

    War, for instance.

    This is more important than that, Rend.

    Houn on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWjSiXoh1qI

    I wonder if ripped sprites would get a map pulled?

    Zek on
  • LurkLurk Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Zek wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWjSiXoh1qI

    I wonder if ripped sprites would get a map pulled?

    I wonder if ripped sprites would result in there being a literal SC1 map.

    Lurk on
    415429-1.png?1281464977
  • LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Lurk wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWjSiXoh1qI

    I wonder if ripped sprites would get a map pulled?

    I wonder if ripped sprites would result in there being a literal SC1 map.


    T minus to porno map packs...(and I can't wait)

    Lilnoobs on
  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Lilnoobs wrote: »

    T minus to porno map packs...(and I can't wait)

    And everyone will see you playing them in your game history!

    Mvrck on
  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I really have to wonder

    with the crazy stuff some people do/are doing with the map editor, do they do it just because it's freakin starcraft and cool as hell, or is it simply a really good platform for building games?

    Beef Avenger on
    Steam ID
    PSN: Robo_Wizard1
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Every time I see the title to this thread,

    every time

    I get "This ain't a scene it's a goddamn arms race" instantly stuck in my head.



    Also, someone in the last Day9 daily suggested banelings against a 2-gate zealot rush. I experimented with that in YABOT and against the Starcrack Ai which is obsessed with 2-gating...


    Man, it is risky as hell as my macro was dead as shit for a lot of the game, but once I managed to get hydras and macro up a bit I went from "OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT" and living and dying on a good baneling explosion to a 200 army and like 5 expansions so fast.

    Khavall on
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I really have to wonder

    with the crazy stuff some people do/are doing with the map editor, do they do it just because it's freakin starcraft and cool as hell, or is it simply a really good platform for building games?

    Both.

    Corehealer on
    488W936.png
  • TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Khavall wrote: »
    Every time I see the title to this thread,

    every time

    I get "This ain't a scene it's a goddamn arms race" instantly stuck in my head.



    Also, someone in the last Day9 daily suggested banelings against a 2-gate zealot rush. I experimented with that in YABOT and against the Starcrack Ai which is obsessed with 2-gating...


    Man, it is risky as hell as my macro was dead as shit for a lot of the game, but once I managed to get hydras and macro up a bit I went from "OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT" and living and dying on a good baneling explosion to a 200 army and like 5 expansions so fast.

    I can imagine baneling/speedling being great for 2 gate/4 gate protoss because, with good micro, you have a strong counter to Zealots and you have a strong counter to Stalkers/Sentries.

    I really think banelings are going to be one of the most important units for Zerg once people really have a chance to dig into Zerg strategies because they are so effective against a wide range of things, I really want the beta to come back so that I can get some real practice with a baneling drop build I have been working on.

    Trus on
    qFN53.png
  • TalithTalith 変態という名の紳士 Miami, FLRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Baneling drops are my nightmare scenario. It's a vision that has haunted me for so long.

    I know it can happen. I can picture it being devastating. Yet it never comes. Why doesn't it come?

    Talith on
    7244qyoka3pp.gif
  • KambingKambing Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's relatively expensive as far as drops go:

    100/100 for overlord speed
    200/200 for overlord drops
    50/0 for each zergling so 4x50/4x0 = 200/0 for a full overlord
    25/25 for each baneling so 4x25/4x25 = 100/100 for a full overlord

    Not to mention the overlord drop upgrade is an agonizing 130 seconds of build time. It's a lot of setup when you could break in with speedlings, drop lings, nydus worm, or mass more units.

    All that being said, I'm excited to try out the roach/baneling drop TvP drop build I've been working on against bots. >_<

    Kambing on
    @TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
  • MovitzMovitz Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    The baneling bombs TLO used in one of the later Day9 dailies were fairly delicious.

    Movitz on
  • _Debaser__Debaser_ Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's rather painful to have to watch this thread drop to the second or third pages day in and day out. I really hope the beta comes back this week. I miss my infestors...

    _Debaser_ on
    steam_sig.png
  • EzekielEzekiel Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Kambing wrote: »
    It's relatively expensive as far as drops go:

    100/100 for overlord speed
    200/200 for overlord drops
    50/0 for each zergling so 4x50/4x0 = 200/0 for a full overlord
    25/25 for each baneling so 4x25/4x25 = 100/100 for a full overlord

    Not to mention the overlord drop upgrade is an agonizing 130 seconds of build time. It's a lot of setup when you could break in with speedlings, drop, lings nydus worm, or mass more units.

    All that being said, I'm excited to try out the roach/baneling drop TvP drop build I've been working on against bots. >_<

    Don't forget lair is required as well.

    And why would the thread stay up when beta comes out? Fuck posting I'll be playing.

    Ezekiel on
    428475-1.png
    I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Trus wrote: »
    Khavall wrote: »
    Every time I see the title to this thread,

    every time

    I get "This ain't a scene it's a goddamn arms race" instantly stuck in my head.



    Also, someone in the last Day9 daily suggested banelings against a 2-gate zealot rush. I experimented with that in YABOT and against the Starcrack Ai which is obsessed with 2-gating...


    Man, it is risky as hell as my macro was dead as shit for a lot of the game, but once I managed to get hydras and macro up a bit I went from "OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT" and living and dying on a good baneling explosion to a 200 army and like 5 expansions so fast.

    I can imagine baneling/speedling being great for 2 gate/4 gate protoss because, with good micro, you have a strong counter to Zealots and you have a strong counter to Stalkers/Sentries.

    I really think banelings are going to be one of the most important units for Zerg once people really have a chance to dig into Zerg strategies because they are so effective against a wide range of things, I really want the beta to come back so that I can get some real practice with a baneling drop build I have been working on.

    Yeah I loved it when I pulled it off right. The problem is that while countering with Roaches gives you a nice consistent army, with banelings it's a lot riskier. If you get a good shot off with them they're devastating, I killed something like 8-9 massed zealots with two of them in one game, and the speedlings took out the rest, which was awesome. The other side of the coin though was if I had a really shitty baneling attack I was totally fucked. The other cool thing about it was that while teching to baneling speed, I needed to get a lair anyways, and then popping a hydra den down was nothing, so transitioning to mass hydra/speedling/baneling was super easy.

    The only problem is how ridiculously micro-intensive it can be, since 4-5 banelings killing one zealot fucks you over something fierce.

    Khavall on
  • piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I think a good baneling transition relies on two things: that just a splash of three or four banelings at a time mixed into a swarm of zerglings can be of great benefit, and that your zerglings can make the change anywhere; you don't have to start with a squad of banelings and go, "these are my banelings and these are my zerglings, and that's it!"

    piL on
  • TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    Kambing wrote: »
    It's relatively expensive as far as drops go:

    100/100 for overlord speed
    200/200 for overlord drops
    50/0 for each zergling so 4x50/4x0 = 200/0 for a full overlord
    25/25 for each baneling so 4x25/4x25 = 100/100 for a full overlord

    Not to mention the overlord drop upgrade is an agonizing 130 seconds of build time. It's a lot of setup when you could break in with speedlings, drop, lings nydus worm, or mass more units.

    All that being said, I'm excited to try out the roach/baneling drop TvP drop build I've been working on against bots. >_<

    Don't forget lair is required as well.

    And why would the thread stay up when beta comes out? Fuck posting I'll be playing.

    You can basically remove the costs for Overlord speed, Lair, and the zerglings since you should be getting OL speed anyway, you have to get a lair, and you'll have excess minerals, zerg's always do. Overlords carry 6 banelings so thats 150/150 or roughly the cost of a mutalisk and a roach.

    200/200 is a bit of a price for overlord drops but the added mobility as well as the fact that Nydus worms are 100/100 each makes it easier to swallow.

    Trus on
    qFN53.png
  • EzekielEzekiel Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's that 200 gas for the drop tech. Painful. Though that's true about OL speed. ESPECIALLY with the relationship between them and creep tumors. Mind was blown when I found out about that.

    Ezekiel on
    428475-1.png
    I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
  • _Debaser__Debaser_ Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    It's that 200 gas for the drop tech. Painful. Though that's true about OL speed. ESPECIALLY with the relationship between them and creep tumors. Mind was blown when I found out about that.

    While I'm definitely more fond of nydus networks over doom drops, I feel it all boils down to viability. If the other guy has his base fully scoped out with missile turrets and supply depots, it's going to be tough to sneak the nydus in there long enough to actually get units out.

    Doom drops on the other hand can be quick and dirty in the right situations. Plus if you're playing zerg right and expanding all over the map, you're going to eventually get to a point where gas is accruing at ridiculous speeds. Generally this wouldn't be until the third base is fully saturated though.

    _Debaser_ on
    steam_sig.png
  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I'm hoping to see nydus worms used more when the beta come back. Less all in hit or miss attacks, and more for simple map control or hit and run attacks

    Beef Avenger on
    Steam ID
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  • TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I'm hoping to see nydus worms used more when the beta come back. Less all in hit or miss attacks, and more for simple map control or hit and run attacks

    I have seen a couple videos of pros using Nydus worms as ways to quickly reinforce expansions but I think the 100/100 per worm is going to be prohibitive in using worms to quickly attack expansions, etc.

    Trus on
    qFN53.png
  • RivulentRivulent Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I <3 nydus worms, but the clear benefit that overlord drops have over nydus is, if played right, overlord drops give the opponent MUCH less time to get back to their base and defend. Also, the nydus tend to unload units rather slowly (and will auto-stop if you dont assign a rally point for exiting units, causing 12 or so units to surround the nydus)... which can be particularly painful if you are dropping lots of small units (zlings, blings).

    Rivulent on
  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Im just in fear of the day that most zerg players realize that the significant thing about a Nydus network is the whole network part.

    Mvrck on
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    They're just too slow at popping out large armies.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • nealcmnealcm Alvarian AlvarianRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    i remember watching a video of a guy doing some ridiculous Nydus play on desert oasis (the one where the back of your bases face each other) where he would start up two in the guy's main, two outside the guy's base, and one inside the guy's expo and would never ever ever stop moving his roaches around or replacing the nyduses that were killed. the guy would bring his stalkers up to his main, the roaches unloaded in the expo. too many at both, unloaded outside of both the expo and the main and attacked from the front. then back to the main etc etc

    and i think the best part was at one point the guy decided to go straight for the zerg's base and he just nydus'd his roaches back to base.

    nealcm on
    19ZUtIw.png
  • Fry-O-FishFry-O-Fish Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    does anyone know if you can load friendly units into the nydus network if you give shared control?

    also has anyone looked into this "greentea" ai that some people are talking about over at team liquid? Apparently a couple of guys coded popular build orders into this thing so it will do stuff like reaper rush and baneling bust.

    http://sc2.nibbits.com/assets/green-tea-ai/

    Fry-O-Fish on
  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Im just in fear of the day that most zerg players realize that the significant thing about a Nydus network is the whole network part.

    yeah, that's why I think they'd be awesome for map control. Just tuck em away in corners of the map and you have a teleporting land army

    Beef Avenger on
    Steam ID
    PSN: Robo_Wizard1
  • DrakeonDrakeon Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Im just in fear of the day that most zerg players realize that the significant thing about a Nydus network is the whole network part.

    yeah, that's why I think they'd be awesome for map control. Just tuck em away in corners of the map and you have a teleporting land army

    In theory it sounds great, but like TheStig mentioned, they are far too slow at popping out large armies anywhere in a decent amount of time, especially if you're attempting to use them as mobile base harassment or defense. It takes far too long to unload 40+ hydras or roaches from a nydus network.

    Drakeon on
    PSN: Drakieon XBL: Drakieon Steam: TheDrakeon
  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Drakeon wrote: »
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Im just in fear of the day that most zerg players realize that the significant thing about a Nydus network is the whole network part.

    yeah, that's why I think they'd be awesome for map control. Just tuck em away in corners of the map and you have a teleporting land army

    In theory it sounds great, but like TheStig mentioned, they are far too slow at popping out large armies anywhere in a decent amount of time, especially if you're attempting to use them as mobile base harassment or defense. It takes far too long to unload 40+ hydras or roaches from a nydus network.

    As a guy who plays predominately mech, Nydus "seem" to spawn and unload ridiculously fast. :P

    Mvrck on
  • RivulentRivulent Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So has this thread addressed the announcement of forthcoming 3D support? 3D support in a top down RTS.... mmmm

    Rivulent on
  • DangeriskDangerisk Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Drakeon wrote: »
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Im just in fear of the day that most zerg players realize that the significant thing about a Nydus network is the whole network part.

    yeah, that's why I think they'd be awesome for map control. Just tuck em away in corners of the map and you have a teleporting land army

    In theory it sounds great, but like TheStig mentioned, they are far too slow at popping out large armies anywhere in a decent amount of time, especially if you're attempting to use them as mobile base harassment or defense. It takes far too long to unload 40+ hydras or roaches from a nydus network.

    They're plenty fast.

    Nydus canals in SC1 were ridiculously good for defense in SC1 and it's almost the exact same mechanic in SC2.

    Dangerisk on
    If what you say is true, the Shaolin and the Wu-Tang could be DANGERISK.
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    yeah it's certainly no slower than a drop, right?

    anything that's gonna fuck you up because it's unloading too slow is probably gonna take out the worm anyway.

    ... in theory. I don't think anyone actually used one on me, at least not successfully, so far

    Variable on
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  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Rivulent wrote: »
    So has this thread addressed the announcement of forthcoming 3D support? 3D support in a top down RTS.... mmmm

    More for the Galaxy Editor I would imagine.

    Mvrck on
  • iowaiowa Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    god dammit i want to nydus worm mass ling a clown so bad right now stop talking about this guys

    iowa on
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