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Innappropriate contact in a relationship: What should qualify as abuse?
Sipex
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
While helping someone on the H/A boards the folks there got in a bit of an arguement over domestic abuse.
In our situation, a small woman is pushed by her boyfriend after he gets pissed off and storms away to calm down. She tries to console him but he just tells her to go away, he needs his space. He does this 12 times before she tries to hug him and he shoves her away. After he has calmed down he still justifies his shove stating "You kept pestering me and I asked you to go away."
To put some twists on it, we've also discussed other variants. What if the roles were reversed and a petite woman shoved a man? Does the source of anger matter in this case?
Part of the discussion, where she kept bugging him has been argued as battery. Does this matter? Both battery and assault are illegal.
This is not a shot at the OP for the originating thread. We are glad she came to a conclusion. This is simply something a few of the posters were...rather passionate about.
In our situation, a small woman is pushed by her boyfriend after he gets pissed off and storms away to calm down. She tries to console him but he just tells her to go away, he needs his space. He does this 12 times before she tries to hug him and he shoves her away. After he has calmed down he still justifies his shove stating "You kept pestering me and I asked you to go away."
To put some twists on it, we've also discussed other variants. What if the roles were reversed and a petite woman shoved a man? Does the source of anger matter in this case?
Part of the discussion, where she kept bugging him has been argued as battery. Does this matter? Both battery and assault are illegal.
This is not a shot at the OP for the originating thread. We are glad she came to a conclusion. This is simply something a few of the posters were...rather passionate about.
Sipex on
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Pushing someone away is a justified response to unwanted physical touching.
We're excluding this part. We're assuming a new couple who we know nothing about except what I posted. No outside factors besides what you presume yourself.
Obviously, if he shoved her tremendously hard, motive no longer plays a factor, because he needs to learn his own strength before being able to interact with people...
Look at it this way, if I stretch in my bed and accidently punch my girl in the face, that isnt abuse. If i playfully punch my girl in the arm and she laughs it isnt abuse. If I playfully punch my girl in the arm and she gets legit hurt a bit, id still say, no abuse.
I know a playful punch and an angry shove to seperate are different, but the point is, in both cases, no harm was intended. Its hard to justify abuse if the actual harm was an accident.
I'm not sure a hug from your significant other could really be classified as an 'assault' either.
"Officer! My husband... hugged me! TAKE HIM AWAY."
He has my sympathies
To clarify, the bugging part was battery, the assault was the push.
No one was arguing a hug was assault.
I dunno man, have you never been pissed off and wanted space?
I have a nephew who kept trying to pick up my cat, my cat groaned and yelped angrily, eventually he stared hissing, and finally, he bit his hand.
I blame the kid, not the cat.
Unwanted hugging can be assault. Try hugging a girl you don't know unexpectedly next time you're out at a club or pub. Call your lawyer first, though.
*edit* Possibly I mean battery above... The lines are blurry in my head.
"What are you in for?"
"Rape and attempted rape. You?"
"I'm the Son of Sam, man. I killed a shitload of people."
"Oh yeah. Hey, who's that dude in the corner?"
"Hey man, what'd you do?"
"..."
"Hey, what, you think you're too bad for us? Fuck you, man!"
"I... hugged my wife. And she didn't want me to."
"OH SHIT GUARDS! GUUUUAAAAAAARRRRDDDSSSS!"
"I'M BUGGING OUT MAN"
Unwanted touching < pushing < hitting < stabbing
Unwanted touching does not justify pushing anymore than it justifies stabbing.
This is not a random stranger hug, they are in an active relationship
Not a courteous thing to do, maybe, but abuse? Nooooope.
Hrmm. Ok.
I don't know if bugging or a hug from your significant other in an attempt to comfort could EVER hold up in court as 'battery'. It seems to me that this is the very definition of making a mountain out of a mole hill.
That being said. Not cut and dry.
But when you start chiming up with OMG BATTERY you're also being silly.
Give each other space when it's requested. If a shove happens, let the space / time be had, and when things are better, work it out.
A small person shoving a much larger person is almost completely non-threatening and doesn't really work.
A large person shoving a much smaller person - shoving, that is, pushing sharply and with lots of force - is dangerous, threatening/intimidating, an act of violence.
It's largely about being responsible and aware when it comes to your own strength and size when dealing with others.
It doesn't matter which gender is which. A large and strong person shoving someone smaller is abusive. Pushing a petite girl or a child or a skinny/small guy or an old person is violent. It is more difficult to judge when the size difference is smaller, and it varies by the exact situation - how hard was it, etc. But shoving someone out of anger when you're substantially stronger or larger is abusive, I'd say.
It seems pretty cut and dry to me. People can be jackasses, does that make them criminals? Sometimes, yes, if they are disturbing the peace or actively hurting someone.
If this guy had called the cops on his girlfriend for hugging him, he would have been laughed at and arrested if he'd used a 911 emergency line.
Yeah, man, I was just grabbing some fine titty. Sure it was inappropriate, but how dare that chick slap me, right? It's practically murder.
It's true, it's less threatening if a small person shoves a large person but that doesn't take into context emotional damage. An act of violence, even a completely ineffective act of violence can still have emotional scarring.
Now, it's still hard to argue that a weak, ineffectual shove can have this sort of effect but in the context of the law, a shove is a shove just like a light nick with a knife because you can't use it effectively is the same as a full blown stab (as long as they can prove you were actually trying to use it)
A guy hitting a girl is domestic abuse!
A girl hitting a guy is adorable!
...Is anyone arguing that?
I wouldn't apply it to an entire subforum. But there are people on this forum who would apply a double-standard and proceed to backpeddle out of it.
Most people overreact in H/A threads.
That aside, I still don't think that it warrants a battery or even assault accusation. If it causes discomfort and is chronic, you don't have to stay with someone. If it's "he hugs me before pushing me or punching me", it's criminal.
A genuine hug from somebody you are in a relationship with is not a crime, nor will it ever be.
The touching/communication can escalate to anything on both parties and one individual does not want any of it.
Leave the person alone when they say to. Do not try to interperate as something else or expect to know the person so well you think they are using reverse psychology on you.
The sex or size should have nothing to do with it. A statement has been made by an individule who has the right to have it.
This was brought up actually. Some members have choice views on it but the general consensus seemed to be "It would be the same."
Well of course they would say that, when that was brought up
I feel that in general if someone is in your personal space touching you after you have asked them not to repeatedly you can use the necessary force to remove them.
But this situation is just completely fucked because the girl is completely in the wrong for ignoring him 12 times and the guy is in the wrong for touching the person he is in a relationship with. They both fucked up bad.
But that also depends on lots of particulars and various things. Case by case basis is still the best way to go for this sort of thing.
If it gets to that stage where you dearly want to hit your partner, and you think that you are justified, just break up, your relationship is screwed beyond repair.
Size is irrelevant to abuse. A smaller person shoving a larger one is still as much an act of violence as the larger one.
There is no way to remove someone from grabbing you that couldn't be construed in a warped mind as "excessively violent" or "abuse." Pushing, grabbing their arms, what have you.
Thats all nice, but not the situation we're discussing.
The letter of the law might not change, but you really think that an unwanted hug while in a relationship with them doesn't have a different bandwidth of socially acceptable recourse?
One further had He made the H/A thread about how it made him feel like he was some sort of rapist or something most would still tell him to "Man up" or similar.
I don't think the shove is the proper way to deal with this situation but I also know what qualifies as a shove can vary wildly by person. I have bumped into some one walking by in the mall and been accused of shoving them for example.
So maybe it depends on the amount of force applied and intention?
That said, intention is often minimal when it comes to law. Saying "But I didn't mean to kill her, honest!" is simply the difference between Murder and Manslaughter
Its a goddamn HUG. Oh no! Maybe, gently remove yourself from their grasp. Or sit there and 'suffer' from the hug of your loved one that just wants you to feel better.
How so?