So far as I know, noone here has said, "It's stupid and I'll post anyway"
I think most people are just saying "It's stupid"
The only legitimate complaint about our discussion that I can think of would be that we're in danger of becoming a big echo chamber in here if we go for much longer. :P
"LOL PARANOID, IT'S JUST IN GAME, NOT EVERYWHERE!!!!"
Welp.
(Which isn't far off most of the paranoia involved in the last discussion on RealID)
I was just pointing out that it's still paranoid and this in no way justifies that paranoia.
It's still just an opt-in system. You don't have to participate.
I was actually paraphrasing the people calling everyone paranoid. Reading fail.
Yes, and you were implying they were wrong. Except they weren't.
People afraid of this are still paranoid, just like they were last time we had this discussion. It's still opt-in, no matter how stupid it may be.
Around whenever Diablo III ends up launching, they'll just make it mandatory across the board I bet.
And that's when I'll stop purchasing Blizzard products.
Fucking dumb and paranoid.
Well, the question I was answering I took as a joke question, but I don't see how this is really paranoid. They role out a feature, most everyone bitches about it. They then go on to use it even more, without really doing anything to address the complaints from the first time it was put into use. My post was just taking their current behavior and following it to it's logical end.
It's similar to how usenet would do it, where each reply would go further on down. It made splitting off-topic rants really easy to prune from the rest of the thread, but was pretty hard to follow most of the time.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I've used the forums in the past....to post comments, suggestions, feedback, criticism, etc or answer other people's questions. Ain't happening anymore.
I've also used their technical support forums when I had a game-stopping bug I needed help with. I'm not really sure what I'd do if that happened again. I guess I'd try sending them email and see if they'd actually answer it.
Just occurred to me as well that using the official realm forums or official recruitment forums to get new members for your guilds will also take a beating if you don't wish to share your real name.
Well, the question I was answering I took as a joke question, but I don't see how this is really paranoid. They role out a feature, most everyone bitches about it. They then go on to use it even more, without really doing anything to address the complaints from the first time it was put into use. My post was just taking their current behavior and following it to it's logical end.
No, it's following it to it's illogical, paranoid end.
It's like people saying that the Ghost Pony will inevitably lead to Blizzard selling XP or something.
(Which isn't far off most of the paranoia involved in the last discussion on RealID)
I was just pointing out that it's still paranoid and this in no way justifies that paranoia.
It's still just an opt-in system. You don't have to participate.
I'm pretty sure being an opt-in system is still beside the point.
If your real name was suddenly obtainable anywhere in-game, it'd still be "opt-in". You still get to choose whether or not you play WoW.
I'm ignoring if they ever made that retroactively available in game, but you'd have to be pretty paranoid to think they would do that.
Except it's not and it's crazy to think it ever would be.
Again, this whole thing is tangential to the actual product itself and that's why it's not that big a deal. Millions of people play WoW without ever using the forum.
Well, at least you agree opt-in is beside the point then?
And of course it's crazy. I also thought it was crazy to think they'd reveal real names on the official forums. I was sure wow.com was making it up at first.
Can we live without the official forums? Well, of course. Most of us already do.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
This also totally shoots any attempt for testing in the foot.
See, as an alpha and beta tester, a large part of what I do is post on the forums for feedback, suggestions, and general testing stuff. Hell, some of the major threads in the Cata forums were started by myself.
Now, I'll no longer be able to do that. Also, there's the very real concern about the fact that the forums get unlocked to the public when the game enters beta - now, if I WERE to post on the alpha forums during whatever next expansion, I'll have my identity as a tester compromised in a very personal fashion.
(Which isn't far off most of the paranoia involved in the last discussion on RealID)
I was just pointing out that it's still paranoid and this in no way justifies that paranoia.
It's still just an opt-in system. You don't have to participate.
I'm pretty sure being an opt-in system is still beside the point.
If your real name was suddenly obtainable anywhere in-game, it'd still be "opt-in". You still get to choose whether or not you play WoW.
I'm ignoring if they ever made that retroactively available in game, but you'd have to be pretty paranoid to think they would do that.
Except it's not and it's crazy to think it ever would be.
Again, this whole thing is tangential to the actual product itself and that's why it's not that big a deal. Millions of people play WoW without ever using the forum.
Well, at least you agree opt-in is beside the point then?
And of course it's crazy. I also thought it was crazy to think they'd reveal real names on the official forums. I was sure wow.com was making it up at first.
Can we live without the official forums? Well, of course. Most of us already do.
Apparently one is not allowed to have an opinion over something one can choose not to partake in.
(Which isn't far off most of the paranoia involved in the last discussion on RealID)
I was just pointing out that it's still paranoid and this in no way justifies that paranoia.
It's still just an opt-in system. You don't have to participate.
I'm pretty sure being an opt-in system is still beside the point.
If your real name was suddenly obtainable anywhere in-game, it'd still be "opt-in". You still get to choose whether or not you play WoW.
I'm ignoring if they ever made that retroactively available in game, but you'd have to be pretty paranoid to think they would do that.
Except it's not and it's crazy to think it ever would be.
Again, this whole thing is tangential to the actual product itself and that's why it's not that big a deal. Millions of people play WoW without ever using the forum.
Well, at least you agree opt-in is beside the point then?
And of course it's crazy. I also thought it was crazy to think they'd reveal real names on the official forums. I was sure wow.com was making it up at first.
Can we live without the official forums? Well, of course. Most of us already do.
Apparently one is not allowed to have an opinion over something one can choose not to partake in.
You can have your opinion, you just need to confirm it with Shryke first.
This also totally shoots any attempt for testing in the foot.
See, as an alpha and beta tester, a large part of what I do is post on the forums for feedback, suggestions, and general testing stuff. Hell, some of the major threads in the Cata forums were started by myself.
Now, I'll no longer be able to do that. Also, there's the very real concern about the fact that the forums get unlocked to the public when the game enters beta - now, if I WERE to post on the alpha forums during whatever next expansion, I'll have my identity as a tester compromised in a very personal fashion.
Yeah, I was in the alpha too and I posted a lot about bugs I encountered, newly implemented features and quests. It's extremely encouraged by Blizzard and other testers and the forums were by far the best place to look for information since the NDA was up. Unfortunately, future feedback will likely tank because of this. As much as I tried to help out on the alpha forums and how useful I know they are, I likely won't be posting any feedback of any kind once these changes go live.
I think Blizzard is about to see what roughly 50% of their userbase being angry can do. One of three things will happen:
1) Nothing, blizzard users will roll over and take it
2) There'll be a huge PR hit, and they'll stop this before it hits use
3) They'll lose a huge amounts of sales as people get pissed off about the user of their name, or the fact that they can no longer get help for things that are broken and can't get ahold of people on the phone.
I see a middle value of #'s 1+3 happening if #2 doesn't happen.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
This also totally shoots any attempt for testing in the foot.
See, as an alpha and beta tester, a large part of what I do is post on the forums for feedback, suggestions, and general testing stuff. Hell, some of the major threads in the Cata forums were started by myself.
Now, I'll no longer be able to do that. Also, there's the very real concern about the fact that the forums get unlocked to the public when the game enters beta - now, if I WERE to post on the alpha forums during whatever next expansion, I'll have my identity as a tester compromised in a very personal fashion.
Yeah, I was in the alpha too and I posted a lot about bugs I encountered, newly implemented features and quests. It's extremely encouraged by Blizzard and other testers and the forums were by far the best place to look for information since the NDA was up. Unfortunately, future feedback will likely tank because of this. As much as I tried to help out on the alpha forums and how useful I know they are, I likely won't be posting any feedback of any kind once these changes go live.
I'll bet you a thousand dollars there are enough other people willing to take your spot and use their real name however. I don't see that being a concern of Blizzards.
Gnutson on
Erai - Operative <--Imperial Double Agent--> Sniper - Eari
SW:Tor - Tao - Kryatt Dragon Server
I don't know why, instead of forcing an instance visit, they don't place graveyards more intelligently. Or at the very least, instead of an arrow pointing to your corpse, show the route you need to take. With all the caves and underwater grottos and other nooks and crannies in the 3D space, showing me where my corpse is tells me jack shit if it's underground, and I've forgotten where the cave was. Point me to the entrance instead.
They could also just do away with stupid corpse runs altogether, kind of like they did with the rez timer. Nothing is being accomplished by making me run back to the instance outside of wasting my time. Just port me to the entrance and be done with it. Or put me in a small waiting room for 30 seconds if there's some real balance issue. But giving me an arrow to my corpse, only for me to fly into the side of a wall when I try to follow it just smacks of stupid design.
It's kind of like Tigole is still working on WoW behind the scenes or something.
This is way better than that. Dingbats who never played during vanilla not knowing where stuff is drive me crazy. But more importantly than that, this will act as a random dungeon filter. Hate BRD? Never go there. Maraudon? Same. Sunken Temple? You bet.
Yeah, this was exactly my thought when they first dropped the info on this poorly-conceived system. Just discover the easiest/shortest/least awful dungeons for your current level bracket, then "random" queue and get the shorter wait time and bonus rewards rather than queue for a specific instance.
This is totally boneheaded and I'm wondering why Blizzard apparently hasn't thought this through or if they have something they haven't told us that's going to prevent you from cheesing it like this.
Edit: Also, depending on how they've implemented the DF grouping/dungeon picking system, this seems like it would make it a lot harder for the system to form groups. Does it pick everyone and then try to find a dungeon they can all go to? What if there's no appropriate dungeon that all five people have discovered? Or does the system secretly assign the dungeon to one person and then assemble the group from there? Still, the pool of available people is reduced by this.
I think Blizzard is about to see what roughly 50% of their userbase being angry can do. One of three things will happen:
1) Nothing, blizzard users will roll over and take it
2) There'll be a huge PR hit, and they'll stop this before it hits use
3) They'll lose a huge amounts of sales as people get pissed off about the user of their name, or the fact that they can no longer get help for things that are broken and can't get ahold of people on the phone.
I see a middle value of #'s 1+3 happening if #2 doesn't happen.
I'm having a hard time predicting what will happen. I mostly just expect use of the official forums to go down a lot, without too much change to actual sales.
The effect on their testing forums is a bit worrying for their own sake though, since that's where Blizzard (and their products) would actually feel a negative effect.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Yeah but the quality starts going down when you start replacing people. Usually people concerned about their identities are really good at picking up tiny details. For good reason. Douchy McFuckerpants may not notice small thigns about the link he's about to click and give out his bank account information to. But he sure does want to play the game before it's released!
Eventually with enough bad quality and tests and bad releases/patches it'll probably bring their income down a whole .08%.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Not sure if this is reflective of what's going to be on live or not, but in terms of instances and having to visit the entrances thereof, when I made my human, I didn't have to visit the entrance of ragefire chasm or wailing caverns to run the dungeons. They were already unlocked in the queue.
There are also quests that lead you to the entrance of the harder to find dungeons, like Deadmines and Blackfathom Deeps. They're also much better about putting outposts and flight paths closer to the dungeon entrances. So as long as you follow the natural quest progression, unlocking the dungeons is entirely a non-issue
There are also quests that lead you to the entrance of the harder to find dungeons, like Deadmines and Blackfathom Deeps. They're also much better about putting outposts and flight paths closer to the dungeon entrances. So as long as you follow the natural quest progression, unlocking the dungeons is entirely a non-issue
That's cool with me!
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Apparently he's pissed off that he can't charge for Call of Duty multiplayer as a separate service.
If it would've worked, Valve would've done it back in the day with Counter-Strike. People that play those games pretty much play them because they don't have to pay. If they started to have to pay to play those games, they'd probably just stop rather than paying another fee on top of it.
I'm wondering if this has to do with a shift of ages from people who used to play all those games 10 years ago. I know I would've have paid to play them, I couldn't have even if I wanted to. But now that I have disposable income, and it seems the game community is dominated by people in my age group, it makes me wonder.
It also makes me want to hatefuck him.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Not sure if this is reflective of what's going to be on live or not, but in terms of instances and having to visit the entrances thereof, when I made my human, I didn't have to visit the entrance of ragefire chasm or wailing caverns to run the dungeons. They were already unlocked in the queue.
There are also quests that lead you to the entrance of the harder to find dungeons, like Deadmines and Blackfathom Deeps. They're also much better about putting outposts and flight paths closer to the dungeon entrances. So as long as you follow the natural quest progression, unlocking the dungeons is entirely a non-issue
But then there are people like me who just started playing two weeks ago and are using the friend system.
I'm level 58 and I haven't left Ogrimmar since I hit 15. If I don't have someone to guide me back in it can be a pain in the ass.
Not sure if this is reflective of what's going to be on live or not, but in terms of instances and having to visit the entrances thereof, when I made my human, I didn't have to visit the entrance of ragefire chasm or wailing caverns to run the dungeons. They were already unlocked in the queue.
There are also quests that lead you to the entrance of the harder to find dungeons, like Deadmines and Blackfathom Deeps. They're also much better about putting outposts and flight paths closer to the dungeon entrances. So as long as you follow the natural quest progression, unlocking the dungeons is entirely a non-issue
But then there are people like me who just started playing two weeks ago and are using the friend system.
I'm level 58 and I haven't left Ogrimmar since I hit 15. If I don't have someone to guide me back in it can be a pain in the ass.
Yes, and I would bet you Blizzard is not happy with this at all.
Not sure if this is reflective of what's going to be on live or not, but in terms of instances and having to visit the entrances thereof, when I made my human, I didn't have to visit the entrance of ragefire chasm or wailing caverns to run the dungeons. They were already unlocked in the queue.
There are also quests that lead you to the entrance of the harder to find dungeons, like Deadmines and Blackfathom Deeps. They're also much better about putting outposts and flight paths closer to the dungeon entrances. So as long as you follow the natural quest progression, unlocking the dungeons is entirely a non-issue
But then there are people like me who just started playing two weeks ago and are using the friend system.
I'm level 58 and I haven't left Ogrimmar since I hit 15. If I don't have someone to guide me back in it can be a pain in the ass.
Yes, and I would bet you Blizzard is not happy with this at all.
Not happy that people are using the tools and systems Blizzard themselves provided?
Not happy that people are using the tools and systems Blizzard themselves provided?
Not happy that people are using them as a substitute for world exploration. I'm sure Blizzard intended the dungeon finder to be used in conjunction with questing and exploration, but the road to hell and all that...
I think we covered all the ways it would actually hurt Blizzard, and all the things people actually use the forums for that they might avoid doing now. I'm not sure if there's anything left to say right now. :P
Not happy that people are using them as a substitute for world exploration
The classic world is a very generic and boring place even to new folks. I can't really blame people for wanting to have as little to do with it as possible.
L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
I actually used to post a ton on the General Forums. Late at night it was good times. We'd even get the blues into it and everything. I remember we had a thread where all of us were trying to summon a certain GM, and he posted once saying 'hi' or something, and the thing hit the thread limit within an hour. It was awesome. But most of those people are gone, and I don't do it much any more. And as of right now, I just deleted the bookmark and closed the tab. I think it's mostly just one of those things where it was coming a long time for me, and I just needed and excuse to use it. I really don't look forward to seeing the real names of the people I posted with. It, to me, is like melding RL with IRC. You know everyone by their handle, but you don't want to know anything about them IRL.
And I've found out that the supposed 14 year old girl who was trying to get me to RealID 'her' is a 19 year old basement dwelling dude, which I partially suspected. I was also expecting some 45+ year old basement dwelling neckbeard goose. I still don't want anything to do with that person, regardless of age or gender.
The having-to-visit-instances-to-random-them thing is just stupid. My mage is my sixth character to reach 70. I know where the instances are, and I don't see how it has anything to do with my appreciation of them.
Just lemme random my fuckin' instances and don't force me to ride all the way to Bumfuck, Egypt just so I can run an instances for a level or two and so you can keep your self-satisfied smirk because you've maintained some kind of nebulous lore context.
Posts
Well, the question I was answering I took as a joke question, but I don't see how this is really paranoid. They role out a feature, most everyone bitches about it. They then go on to use it even more, without really doing anything to address the complaints from the first time it was put into use. My post was just taking their current behavior and following it to it's logical end.
Uhh, Livejournal is the only one I can think of, if I'm even thinking of the right thing
Oh god, the Slashdot system? I mean, I love tech news as much as the next guy but their comments are unreadable.
Oh well, maybe the silver lining is nobody will ever search out anybody's real name because no one will want to wade through that unreadable dreck.
I've also used their technical support forums when I had a game-stopping bug I needed help with. I'm not really sure what I'd do if that happened again. I guess I'd try sending them email and see if they'd actually answer it.
No, it's following it to it's illogical, paranoid end.
It's like people saying that the Ghost Pony will inevitably lead to Blizzard selling XP or something.
Well, at least you agree opt-in is beside the point then?
And of course it's crazy. I also thought it was crazy to think they'd reveal real names on the official forums. I was sure wow.com was making it up at first.
Can we live without the official forums? Well, of course. Most of us already do.
See, as an alpha and beta tester, a large part of what I do is post on the forums for feedback, suggestions, and general testing stuff. Hell, some of the major threads in the Cata forums were started by myself.
Now, I'll no longer be able to do that. Also, there's the very real concern about the fact that the forums get unlocked to the public when the game enters beta - now, if I WERE to post on the alpha forums during whatever next expansion, I'll have my identity as a tester compromised in a very personal fashion.
Apparently one is not allowed to have an opinion over something one can choose not to partake in.
You can have your opinion, you just need to confirm it with Shryke first.
Yeah, I was in the alpha too and I posted a lot about bugs I encountered, newly implemented features and quests. It's extremely encouraged by Blizzard and other testers and the forums were by far the best place to look for information since the NDA was up. Unfortunately, future feedback will likely tank because of this. As much as I tried to help out on the alpha forums and how useful I know they are, I likely won't be posting any feedback of any kind once these changes go live.
1) Nothing, blizzard users will roll over and take it
2) There'll be a huge PR hit, and they'll stop this before it hits use
3) They'll lose a huge amounts of sales as people get pissed off about the user of their name, or the fact that they can no longer get help for things that are broken and can't get ahold of people on the phone.
I see a middle value of #'s 1+3 happening if #2 doesn't happen.
I'll bet you a thousand dollars there are enough other people willing to take your spot and use their real name however. I don't see that being a concern of Blizzards.
SW:Tor - Tao - Kryatt Dragon Server
Except when they put facebook on the 360 they didn't force me to turn my gamertag to my real name.
Yeah, this was exactly my thought when they first dropped the info on this poorly-conceived system. Just discover the easiest/shortest/least awful dungeons for your current level bracket, then "random" queue and get the shorter wait time and bonus rewards rather than queue for a specific instance.
This is totally boneheaded and I'm wondering why Blizzard apparently hasn't thought this through or if they have something they haven't told us that's going to prevent you from cheesing it like this.
Edit: Also, depending on how they've implemented the DF grouping/dungeon picking system, this seems like it would make it a lot harder for the system to form groups. Does it pick everyone and then try to find a dungeon they can all go to? What if there's no appropriate dungeon that all five people have discovered? Or does the system secretly assign the dungeon to one person and then assemble the group from there? Still, the pool of available people is reduced by this.
herp derp
I'm having a hard time predicting what will happen. I mostly just expect use of the official forums to go down a lot, without too much change to actual sales.
The effect on their testing forums is a bit worrying for their own sake though, since that's where Blizzard (and their products) would actually feel a negative effect.
Eventually with enough bad quality and tests and bad releases/patches it'll probably bring their income down a whole .08%.
http://gamepolitics.com/2010/07/06/bobby-kotick-frustrated-xbox-live-biz-model
Apparently he's pissed off that he can't charge for Call of Duty multiplayer as a separate service.
There are also quests that lead you to the entrance of the harder to find dungeons, like Deadmines and Blackfathom Deeps. They're also much better about putting outposts and flight paths closer to the dungeon entrances. So as long as you follow the natural quest progression, unlocking the dungeons is entirely a non-issue
"Koooootiiiiiiiick!!!"
That's cool with me!
Every time Bobby Kotick is stopped from doing something horrible an angel kitten gets it's wings.
I mean I'll never post again so I don't care. Too bad the forums will probably die.
If it would've worked, Valve would've done it back in the day with Counter-Strike. People that play those games pretty much play them because they don't have to pay. If they started to have to pay to play those games, they'd probably just stop rather than paying another fee on top of it.
I'm wondering if this has to do with a shift of ages from people who used to play all those games 10 years ago. I know I would've have paid to play them, I couldn't have even if I wanted to. But now that I have disposable income, and it seems the game community is dominated by people in my age group, it makes me wonder.
It also makes me want to hatefuck him.
But then there are people like me who just started playing two weeks ago and are using the friend system.
I'm level 58 and I haven't left Ogrimmar since I hit 15. If I don't have someone to guide me back in it can be a pain in the ass.
Can we still discuss it without bitching?
Yes, and I would bet you Blizzard is not happy with this at all.
It is when it's the same shit as way back when RealID got announced in the first place.
Not happy that people are using the tools and systems Blizzard themselves provided?
Not happy that people are using them as a substitute for world exploration. I'm sure Blizzard intended the dungeon finder to be used in conjunction with questing and exploration, but the road to hell and all that...
I think we covered all the ways it would actually hurt Blizzard, and all the things people actually use the forums for that they might avoid doing now. I'm not sure if there's anything left to say right now. :P
Other than the "olols paranoia", and the bit with "but it's opt-in", I don't agree.
But I think we covered everything else now anyway.
The classic world is a very generic and boring place even to new folks. I can't really blame people for wanting to have as little to do with it as possible.
Addon RealID security leak allows anyone to see your real life name even if they are not your RealID friend
Only use trusted addons.
And I've found out that the supposed 14 year old girl who was trying to get me to RealID 'her' is a 19 year old basement dwelling dude, which I partially suspected. I was also expecting some 45+ year old basement dwelling neckbeard goose. I still don't want anything to do with that person, regardless of age or gender.
Just lemme random my fuckin' instances and don't force me to ride all the way to Bumfuck, Egypt just so I can run an instances for a level or two and so you can keep your self-satisfied smirk because you've maintained some kind of nebulous lore context.