Saw it last night, and thought it was a pretty spiffy little action/sci-fi/horror flick. Two severed spines up.
One question/quibble:
So doctor boy sees some weird-ass alien plant, and recognizes the species? Does this imply that the Predators populated this planet with plant species from Earth, or are we supposed to believe that the same species of plants just happened to evolve on completely separate planets? Or are we just not supposed to think about it too hard?
This bugged me as well. Don't think about it too hard.
I got the impression they seeded the planet with plants from multiple planets. Just so happens that one was a plant from Earth.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
So was he really a doctor? I mean for all we know he made that up and he just knows his neurotoxic plants...
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
Just got back, and I agree with the 3/5 assessment from above; good, but not great.
Pros:
- Clean plotting. No overly convoluted mess about building Antarctic pyramids or other silly shit. Just people vs. monsters.
- Competent acting. Decent actors delivering believable dialogue. It shouldn't be so rare to be worthy of regard, but there you go.
- Pacing.* The first 2/3rds of this flick rollicked on extremely tightly, planning its reveals at exciting moments.
- In-camera effects. Hooray for abundant in-camera effects!
- Fishburn. Terrific character work with very little time to do it in.
- Score. Almost as good as mid-70s John Williams. Had a very Planet of the Apes vibe.
Cons:
- The "Doctor" subplot. Why would the doctor know what that plant was? Why would he reveal himself to be a murderer (and try to prove it) right before he and Isabel were about to (presumably) die? The doctor character was an utter literary crutch from a writing POV; all he was there for was to provide motivation for plot points and tension. He wasn't a character, he was a prop, and a clumsily used one at that.
- Photography. Look, I know good camerawork costs a lot of money, but this isn't some little indie film shot in a Williamsburg basement on B&W. Proper photography adds depth and provides a sense of spatial relationships. In a movie filled with little besides mid-distance shots, you could never tell how far the characters had traveled or how big or small a space they were in.
- Photography, pt II. Also, if you're shooting an exterior, find an exterior to shoot on. Way too often it was too obvious that the action was happening on a soundstage, turning "Predators" into "Predators: Live on Broadway!"
- Post-effects. Because the in-camera work was so good, the photoshopped stuff looked so much worse in comparison. Nothing about the CGI "dogs" looked real or had any weight at all. Same goes for many of the "green blood" effects.
- Fishburn. What a wasted character.
- Pacing and Plotting. The 3rd act begins to unravel at the very start, when Noland makes the strange decision to kill everyone to steal their guns. This happens approximately 5 minutes after the audience learns that Noland is experienced at killing Predators, knows where to find their ship, and has been on the planet for many years. I have trouble believing that "let's kill them and steal their guns" was the better plan than "let's work with this team of trained and armed warriors to get that ship and go home." It hits another bump when the Yakuza decides to homage himself to death and swordfight the Predator tracking them. Again, "you guys run away while I fight the monster and buy time" isn't really a better plan than "I'll attack the monster and then you guys with guns can blow him the fuck up and we'll all survive." On top of that, the lighting in that fight scene was terrible. From there, we get into Topher Grace's aforementioned reveal, and then we're treated to a ROTK-style triple ending. First Royce escapes in the ship, Isabel gets murdered, and the doctor is left for Predator fodder. But no! One predator fights another, and then Royce returns, saving Isabel, killing the doctor, and beheading the last Predator with what looked like the jawbone of a mule. Fade to black. But no again! We see the morning after, and more victims and dogs are parachuting down, in a pointless and downbeat ending to an otherwise decent movie.
All in all, there was a good movie lurking within this film, but it really just felt like the script needed a couple more passes, plus some better photography. I hate to see shitty films, and this was not that, but it's also frustrating to see decent films not achieve more when they easily and obviously could. The passion was there, the cast was there, the concept was there; what was missing was some directorial and screenwriting fundamentals. Such a shame.
So was he really a doctor? I mean for all we know he made that up and he just knows his neurotoxic plants...
We he doesn't have to be say a pediatrician or something . He's most likely a surgeon, Dentist or anesthesiologist who decided he liked cutting for the hell of it. He probably used Novocaine for a while but wanted the victim to be awake AND feel it which lead him to learn about natural toxins he could use.
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Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
I didn't have much problem with the plant thing. Nobody reacted in a "We do not recognise these plants at all", so it was a hunting world modelled on earth. This raises other questions about what was in the boxes, I admit.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
My theory about it is that they put the animals on the planet to see if the humans they drop can deal with them. I guess the animals serve as a way of shifting out those humans worthy of hunting from those who aren't. If you're killed by Mr Spikey dog are you really worth the predators interest to hunt in the first place?
Don't more soldiers look more like the right than the left?
In fact soldiers are encouraged to look more like Brody does. I believe there's a minimum and maximum weight muscle or no.
You have weight standards, but if you go over weight, they take measurements to grade your bodyfat scale on an incredibly outdated system.
Some people just ain't built like Brody, like myself. 36" waist, 50" chest. I weighed in at 179 at basic at a staggering 5 foot 9 inches. I gained 10 pounds and lost an inch around my waist. My body frame is fucking stout, and the tape is made for people like myself.
I'm currently sitting at 230 lbs, with the same amount of bodyfat as I had when I graduated basic. I will never pass my weight standard, ever.
Saw it last night, and thought it was a pretty spiffy little action/sci-fi/horror flick. Two severed spines up.
One question/quibble:
So doctor boy sees some weird-ass alien plant, and recognizes the species? Does this imply that the Predators populated this planet with plant species from Earth, or are we supposed to believe that the same species of plants just happened to evolve on completely separate planets? Or are we just not supposed to think about it too hard?
This bugged me as well. Don't think about it too hard.
I got the impression they seeded the planet with plants from multiple planets. Just so happens that one was a plant from Earth.
Maybe my memory is fuzzy, but that
plant had some massive glands (poison sacks) on it. My first thought was it was poisonous, until Oleg was about to touch it. Then I thought it would nibble his hand off.
Saw it last night, and thought it was a pretty spiffy little action/sci-fi/horror flick. Two severed spines up.
One question/quibble:
So doctor boy sees some weird-ass alien plant, and recognizes the species? Does this imply that the Predators populated this planet with plant species from Earth, or are we supposed to believe that the same species of plants just happened to evolve on completely separate planets? Or are we just not supposed to think about it too hard?
This bugged me as well. Don't think about it too hard.
I got the impression they seeded the planet with plants from multiple planets. Just so happens that one was a plant from Earth.
Maybe my memory is fuzzy, but that
plant had some massive glands (poison sacks) on it. My first thought was it was poisonous, until Oleg was about to touch it. Then I thought it would nibble his hand off.
This to, like I said, it looked dangerous already, using what he knows from Earth its easy to take a stab (heyo) that it features similar characteristics.
My theory about it is that they put the animals on the planet to see if the humans they drop can deal with them. I guess the animals serve as a way of shifting out those humans worthy of hunting from those who aren't. If you're killed by Mr Spikey dog are you really worth the predators interest to hunt in the first place?
I just regarded it as the Predator equivalent of the British fox hunt.
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TrippyJingMoses supposes his toeses are roses.But Moses supposes erroneously.Registered Userregular
- Post-effects. Because the in-camera work was so good, the photoshopped stuff looked so much worse in comparison. Nothing about the CGI "dogs" looked real or had any weight at all. Same goes for many of the "green blood" effects.
I would like to point out that the green blood was made in all the movies with a mixture of glowstick fluid and KY jelly. The glow was not added later.
I would like to point out that the green blood was made in all the movies with a mixture of glowstick fluid and KY jelly. The glow was not added later.
That is brilliant, if true.
Mojo_Jojo on
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
I would like to point out that the green blood was made in all the movies with a mixture of glowstick fluid and KY jelly. The glow was not added later.
That is brilliant, if true.
The glow was likely digitally enhanced though. Nyah.
I would like to point out that the green blood was made in all the movies with a mixture of glowstick fluid and KY jelly. The glow was not added later.
That is brilliant, if true.
The glow was likely digitally enhanced though. Nyah.
I'm gonna have me some fun. I'm gonna have me some fun.
There was talk earlier about Mac's freaking out in Predator--when he starts wheezing this song, that was my favorite part. Thinking about it, Bill Duke probably put out the best acting in that show.
My theory about it is that they put the animals on the planet to see if the humans they drop can deal with them. I guess the animals serve as a way of shifting out those humans worthy of hunting from those who aren't. If you're killed by Mr Spikey dog are you really worth the predators interest to hunt in the first place?
I just regarded it as the Predator equivalent of the British fox hunt.
Didn't one of the characters actually make that exact analogy?
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I would like to point out that the green blood was made in all the movies with a mixture of glowstick fluid and KY jelly. The glow was not added later.
That is brilliant, if true.
It is true, and it is awesome and it is annoying as hell to work around. That shit gets everywhere and is sooooo hard to clean off of cameras.
Oh I love internets, everyone acts like they know so goddamn much. Of course any effect worth anything is enhanced digitally.
Like the guy who says we shot on sound stages too much. Were you there? Because I was, and only one exterior shot is on stages. One. You may pretend to know things about photography and filmmaking at this level, but you don't. I have problems with the movie too, but they're real problems not I'm trying to sound smart for the interwebz problems.
First Predators is still the best, but this one is pretty solid and much better than the other shit.
My theory about it is that they put the animals on the planet to see if the humans they drop can deal with them. I guess the animals serve as a way of shifting out those humans worthy of hunting from those who aren't. If you're killed by Mr Spikey dog are you really worth the predators interest to hunt in the first place?
I just regarded it as the Predator equivalent of the British fox hunt.
Didn't one of the characters actually make that exact analogy?
So if all predators hunt who builds their ships and crap?
Do they have Predator accountants and Predator risk analysts and Predator hookers somewhere?
I like the interpretation that the Predators we see are the Red Necks of the species and the rest are just normal office suit wearing aliens.
Perhaps they wear human skull jewelry and this is the equivilent of our diamond trade and hunting hobbies mixed into one
Although you know this fits. They strung up the
other sort of predator
so they're probably racist too. Their spaceship probably has a "Klaxon IV South Will Rise Again!" bumper sticker with their equivalent of a confederate flag as the background
The Jock Predators bully the nerd Predators and then one day they show up and shoulder-cannon the school and Predator Thompson insists that all these space bloodsports are making their children violent while others blame their parents for being off flaying a team of special forces instead of watching their son
ftfy
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I would like to point out that the green blood was made in all the movies with a mixture of glowstick fluid and KY jelly. The glow was not added later.
That is brilliant, if true.
It is true, and it is awesome and it is annoying as hell to work around. That shit gets everywhere and is sooooo hard to clean off of cameras.
Oh I love internets, everyone acts like they know so goddamn much. Of course any effect worth anything is enhanced digitally.
Like the guy who says we shot on sound stages too much. Were you there? Because I was, and only one exterior shot is on stages. One. You may pretend to know things about photography and filmmaking at this level, but you don't. I have problems with the movie too, but they're real problems not I'm trying to sound smart for the interwebz problems.
First Predators is still the best, but this one is pretty solid and much better than the other shit.
Okay. So what's worse: shooting on stages and having it look that way, or shooting on location and having it still look like it was shot on a stage? I'm sorry, but the blocking and framing and rudimentary angles taken make many parts of the film look smallish and cheap.
What, Troublemaker couldn't rent a crane? The original Predator had better photography. This one had better effects and acting and score. You can't win 'em all, but you still did a pretty good job. I'll definitely be referring this film to others, but that doesn't prevent me from acknowledging the film's shortcomings.
For what it's worth, I never got the soundstagey feeling from all of the outdoor shots that I did from movies like, say, Jurassic Park 3. I didn't really have a problem with any of the cinematography; it did what it had to and that worked well enough for me. The one shot that did bug me was the super shakey cam they used in the very beginning of the movie, with Brody arriving on the planet.
This to, like I said, it looked dangerous already, using what he knows from Earth its easy to take a stab (heyo) that it features similar characteristics.
If it helps you guys any, the Doc definitely describes the plant by species. I'd be willing to bet that the plant doesn't actually exist on Earth, but for the purposes of the movie it did.
For what it's worth I never got the soundstagey feeling from all of the outdoor shots like I did from movies like, say, Jurassic Park 3. I didn't really have a problem with any of the cinematography; it did what it had to and that worked well enough for me.
This to, like I said, it looked dangerous already, using what he knows from Earth its easy to take a stab (heyo) that it features similar characteristics.
If it helps you guys any, the Doc definitely describes the plant by species. I'd be willing to bet that the pant doesn't actually exist on Earth, but for the purposes of the movie it did.
He could have made that species name up completely. Who's gonna call him on it?
My theory about it is that they put the animals on the planet to see if the humans they drop can deal with them. I guess the animals serve as a way of shifting out those humans worthy of hunting from those who aren't. If you're killed by Mr Spikey dog are you really worth the predators interest to hunt in the first place?
I just regarded it as the Predator equivalent of the British fox hunt.
Didn't one of the characters actually make that exact analogy?
They compared it to flushing out game.
I think it's a amusing when audiences try to rationalize what basically comes down to lazy writing.
They just wanted to show us something we'd never seen before, hence throwing in Predadogs and Super Black Predators when classic predators would've sufficed. Hence setting this in an alien jungle, even though an Earth one would've served about the same purpose. Hence giving us three predators even though that didn't seem to have made them any more lethal or mysterious, and if anything detracted from this theme.
He could have made that species name up completely. Who's gonna call him on it?
when they were first talking about it, I kind of got the same feeling, but they never followed up on it so that seems less likely to me. Especially considering he was right about it being an instantly paralyzing neurotoxin.
About him not even being a doctor, that's possible, too. I thought it strange that despite everyone's injuries he never thinks to treat anyone for anything. The only thing he really know is the position of important arteries which could easily be a side effect of his other hobbies.
I think it's a amusing when audiences try to rationalize what basically comes down to lazy writing.
They just wanted to show us something we'd never seen before, hence throwing in Predadogs and Super Black Predators when classic predators would've sufficed. Hence setting this in an alien jungle, even though an Earth one would've served about the same purpose. Hence giving us three predators even though that didn't seem to have made them any more lethal or mysterious, and if anything detracted from this theme.
I'm unsure why would just assume it's lazy writing when it's just as likely to be what the movie says it is. They're using "dogs" to flesh out their behavior. That makes perfect sense to me, and helps nail in the feeling that the Predators don't care about these humans past being interesting game.
He could have made that species name up completely. Who's gonna call him on it?
when they were first talking about it, I kind of got the same feeling, but they never followed up on it so that seems less likely to me. Especially considering he was right about it being an instantly paralyzing neurotoxin.
About him not even being a doctor, that's possible, too. I thought it strange that despite everyone's injuries he never thinks to treat anyone for anything. The only thing he really know is the position of important arteries which could easily be a side effect of his other hobbies.
For what it's worth, I never got the soundstagey feeling from all of the outdoor shots that I did from movies like, say, Jurassic Park 3.
To be honest, the original Predator seemed to have a way more convincing jungle. The new one was actually less intimidating by comparison, despite being on another planet. Remember the dogs scene? Open area with a few trees in between? Yeah, that doesn't exactly scream "dense rainforest where something could be hiding anywhere." They really should've just cut that scene out.
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In fact soldiers are encouraged to look more like Brody does. I believe there's a minimum and maximum weight muscle or no.
Pros:
- Clean plotting. No overly convoluted mess about building Antarctic pyramids or other silly shit. Just people vs. monsters.
- Competent acting. Decent actors delivering believable dialogue. It shouldn't be so rare to be worthy of regard, but there you go.
- Pacing.* The first 2/3rds of this flick rollicked on extremely tightly, planning its reveals at exciting moments.
- In-camera effects. Hooray for abundant in-camera effects!
- Fishburn. Terrific character work with very little time to do it in.
- Score. Almost as good as mid-70s John Williams. Had a very Planet of the Apes vibe.
Cons:
- The "Doctor" subplot. Why would the doctor know what that plant was? Why would he reveal himself to be a murderer (and try to prove it) right before he and Isabel were about to (presumably) die? The doctor character was an utter literary crutch from a writing POV; all he was there for was to provide motivation for plot points and tension. He wasn't a character, he was a prop, and a clumsily used one at that.
- Photography. Look, I know good camerawork costs a lot of money, but this isn't some little indie film shot in a Williamsburg basement on B&W. Proper photography adds depth and provides a sense of spatial relationships. In a movie filled with little besides mid-distance shots, you could never tell how far the characters had traveled or how big or small a space they were in.
- Photography, pt II. Also, if you're shooting an exterior, find an exterior to shoot on. Way too often it was too obvious that the action was happening on a soundstage, turning "Predators" into "Predators: Live on Broadway!"
- Post-effects. Because the in-camera work was so good, the photoshopped stuff looked so much worse in comparison. Nothing about the CGI "dogs" looked real or had any weight at all. Same goes for many of the "green blood" effects.
- Fishburn. What a wasted character.
- Pacing and Plotting. The 3rd act begins to unravel at the very start, when Noland makes the strange decision to kill everyone to steal their guns. This happens approximately 5 minutes after the audience learns that Noland is experienced at killing Predators, knows where to find their ship, and has been on the planet for many years. I have trouble believing that "let's kill them and steal their guns" was the better plan than "let's work with this team of trained and armed warriors to get that ship and go home." It hits another bump when the Yakuza decides to homage himself to death and swordfight the Predator tracking them. Again, "you guys run away while I fight the monster and buy time" isn't really a better plan than "I'll attack the monster and then you guys with guns can blow him the fuck up and we'll all survive." On top of that, the lighting in that fight scene was terrible. From there, we get into Topher Grace's aforementioned reveal, and then we're treated to a ROTK-style triple ending. First Royce escapes in the ship, Isabel gets murdered, and the doctor is left for Predator fodder. But no! One predator fights another, and then Royce returns, saving Isabel, killing the doctor, and beheading the last Predator with what looked like the jawbone of a mule. Fade to black. But no again! We see the morning after, and more victims and dogs are parachuting down, in a pointless and downbeat ending to an otherwise decent movie.
All in all, there was a good movie lurking within this film, but it really just felt like the script needed a couple more passes, plus some better photography. I hate to see shitty films, and this was not that, but it's also frustrating to see decent films not achieve more when they easily and obviously could. The passion was there, the cast was there, the concept was there; what was missing was some directorial and screenwriting fundamentals. Such a shame.
You have weight standards, but if you go over weight, they take measurements to grade your bodyfat scale on an incredibly outdated system.
Some people just ain't built like Brody, like myself. 36" waist, 50" chest. I weighed in at 179 at basic at a staggering 5 foot 9 inches. I gained 10 pounds and lost an inch around my waist. My body frame is fucking stout, and the tape is made for people like myself.
I'm currently sitting at 230 lbs, with the same amount of bodyfat as I had when I graduated basic. I will never pass my weight standard, ever.
Maybe my memory is fuzzy, but that
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This to, like I said, it looked dangerous already, using what he knows from Earth its easy to take a stab (heyo) that it features similar characteristics.
I just regarded it as the Predator equivalent of the British fox hunt.
I would like to point out that the green blood was made in all the movies with a mixture of glowstick fluid and KY jelly. The glow was not added later.
That is brilliant, if true.
The glow was likely digitally enhanced though. Nyah.
I would assume Glowstick fluid GLOWS.
There was talk earlier about Mac's freaking out in Predator--when he starts wheezing this song, that was my favorite part. Thinking about it, Bill Duke probably put out the best acting in that show.
Didn't one of the characters actually make that exact analogy?
It is true, and it is awesome and it is annoying as hell to work around. That shit gets everywhere and is sooooo hard to clean off of cameras.
Oh I love internets, everyone acts like they know so goddamn much. Of course any effect worth anything is enhanced digitally.
Like the guy who says we shot on sound stages too much. Were you there? Because I was, and only one exterior shot is on stages. One. You may pretend to know things about photography and filmmaking at this level, but you don't. I have problems with the movie too, but they're real problems not I'm trying to sound smart for the interwebz problems.
First Predators is still the best, but this one is pretty solid and much better than the other shit.
Do they have Predator accountants and Predator risk analysts and Predator hookers somewhere?
I like the interpretation that the Predators we see are the Red Necks of the species and the rest are just normal office suit wearing aliens.
They compared it to flushing out game.
Perhaps they wear human skull jewelry and this is the equivilent of our diamond trade and hunting hobbies mixed into one
Although you know this fits. They strung up the
And Predatorette prostitutes...
ftfy
Okay. So what's worse: shooting on stages and having it look that way, or shooting on location and having it still look like it was shot on a stage? I'm sorry, but the blocking and framing and rudimentary angles taken make many parts of the film look smallish and cheap.
What, Troublemaker couldn't rent a crane? The original Predator had better photography. This one had better effects and acting and score. You can't win 'em all, but you still did a pretty good job. I'll definitely be referring this film to others, but that doesn't prevent me from acknowledging the film's shortcomings.
Also
If it helps you guys any, the Doc definitely describes the plant by species. I'd be willing to bet that the plant doesn't actually exist on Earth, but for the purposes of the movie it did.
He could have made that species name up completely. Who's gonna call him on it?
I for one don't think he was a doctor at all.
I think it's a amusing when audiences try to rationalize what basically comes down to lazy writing.
They just wanted to show us something we'd never seen before, hence throwing in Predadogs and Super Black Predators when classic predators would've sufficed. Hence setting this in an alien jungle, even though an Earth one would've served about the same purpose. Hence giving us three predators even though that didn't seem to have made them any more lethal or mysterious, and if anything detracted from this theme.
when they were first talking about it, I kind of got the same feeling, but they never followed up on it so that seems less likely to me. Especially considering he was right about it being an instantly paralyzing neurotoxin.
About him not even being a doctor, that's possible, too. I thought it strange that despite everyone's injuries he never thinks to treat anyone for anything. The only thing he really know is the position of important arteries which could easily be a side effect of his other hobbies.
edit:
I'm unsure why would just assume it's lazy writing when it's just as likely to be what the movie says it is. They're using "dogs" to flesh out their behavior. That makes perfect sense to me, and helps nail in the feeling that the Predators don't care about these humans past being interesting game.
Yup yup.
To be honest, the original Predator seemed to have a way more convincing jungle. The new one was actually less intimidating by comparison, despite being on another planet. Remember the dogs scene? Open area with a few trees in between? Yeah, that doesn't exactly scream "dense rainforest where something could be hiding anywhere." They really should've just cut that scene out.