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[MOBA DOBA] League of Legends, the seasoning it is beginning.

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Posts

  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Batmantis wrote: »
    I know Soal is probably like 2000000. And others are probably 1600+, but I want to brag a touch. Proud of my solo q'ing!
    ra.jpg

    1300s is pretty good. I'm currently at 1430 or so, top was 1450 I think.

    It slows down the higher you go.

    I'm like 19-12ish in ranked and I have basically the same rank as you (1340). Weird cause your w/l is so much better.

    I'm trying to figure out which champions to play that are good, but don't get banned every game. Right now I'm playing Shen, XZ, and Amumu, which roughly translates to "I play Amumu". How good is Taric?

    Taric is great as long as you're content with not killing too many champs. Also he can survive like a boss. Having mans chase you from one side of the map to another and surviving is pretty fun.

    Malkor on
    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Batmantis wrote: »
    I'm trying to figure out which champions to play that are good, but don't get banned every game. Right now I'm playing Shen, XZ, and Amumu, which roughly translates to "I play Amumu". How good is Taric?

    Taric is awful. Don't play him!

    Just kidding. I get jealous easy. He's a great support / tank champion, if that's your cup of tea. It is mine, so I enjoy playing him.

    Just go defensive masteries, getting Ardor (tier 5, +AP, +AS) if you can. Good items are Chalice, Nashor's Tooth, Spirit Visage, Archangel's Staff, Aegis. (In roughly that order.) Boots should almost always be Mercury's Treads.

    jdmichal on
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    Ghost in the Linkshell Item Requisitioning
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  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Oh and buy the pink skin.

    It makes people hit him more.

    Malkor on
    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • TannerMSTannerMS Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Batmantis wrote: »

    I'm like 19-12ish in ranked and I have basically the same rank as you (1340). Weird cause your w/l is so much better.

    I'm trying to figure out which champions to play that are good, but don't get banned every game. Right now I'm playing Shen, XZ, and Amumu, which roughly translates to "I play Amumu". How good is Taric?

    If you think about the rating system, this makes perfect sense. If I go 1007-1000 I'll be sitting at +7 wins with the 1000 cancelling each other out. If those 7 games got me to 1375 rating and that is where my skill level is too, then my ratio from that point on should be 50/50. Assuming people have a peak performance level (basically where they're either the best or growing at the same rate as those around them), everyone should average out to a near 50% win ratio over a long period of time. It seems as though people with the better ratios are the ones still climbing as opposed to those who're stagnant.

    This doesn't work perfectly because people come in and out of inactivity and new players join and people change to unfamiliar characters.

    tldr: Your ELO is a measure of your wins minus your losses, not your ratio.


    EDIT: Taric is fucking awesome; in my eyes he's the best pure support character in the game. I've never been big on the AP or Attack Speed stacking, but Aura Taric with a bit of late game AP is a monster.

    TannerMS on
  • Charles KinboteCharles Kinbote Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    so XZ is a lot of fun but I'm going to retire him before I start getting too dependent on his current state

    is the "all BS all the time" for AD Ezreal really the way to go? that almost seems like a snowball build, just because getting even one BS can take a little while, even with someone as good at lasthitting as Ez is

    guide my AD Ezreal

    should I be getting things that benefit my autoattack (phantom dancer, stark's fervor, etc) or really just getting AD?

    Charles Kinbote on
    www.twitter.com/amazingwarlock
  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    TannerMS wrote: »
    EDIT: Taric is fucking awesome; in my eyes he's the best pure support character in the game. I've never been big on the AP or Attack Speed stacking, but Aura Taric with a bit of late game AP is a monster.

    You don't stack attack speed. I would never recommend any AS item outside of Nashor's Tooth, and that's because it's AP and CDR fit perfectly with Taric. I think you would be surprised how much that extra AS helps. You must remember that for Taric, auto-attacks mean mana and heal cooldowns. This is vital. Nashor's Tooth is just enough AS to put him up from unbearably slow to rockin' out.

    Honestly, if you're not playing aggressively with Taric, I would argue that you're doing it wrong. And Nashor's Tooth just helps so much with that. Spirit Visage too, because every heal also heals you, and that extra 20% goes such a long way. It also boosts his self-heal to 168%, or 504 with no AP.

    jdmichal on
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    Ghost in the Linkshell Item Requisitioning
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  • NanakiNanaki Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Who said there's no denying in this game? I just played Pirate for the first time last night and he has the ability to kill off one of his OWN minions?! What the hell is the point of that? How does that raise morale?!

    That game Annie and I rocked house. One time after her tibber-stun and my ult had finished the team off, I got to thinking. Evil, evil plots ran through my head until finally I snapped and shot Tibbers just to see if i could. He insta-died!

    Curiousity killed the tibbers! (I LOVE cheesey jokes, sorry :))

    Nanaki on
    Let's look death in the face and say, "Whatever, man!"
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    jdmichal wrote: »
    TannerMS wrote: »
    EDIT: Taric is fucking awesome; in my eyes he's the best pure support character in the game. I've never been big on the AP or Attack Speed stacking, but Aura Taric with a bit of late game AP is a monster.

    You don't stack attack speed. I would never recommend any AS item outside of Nashor's Tooth, and that's because it's AP and CDR fit perfectly with Taric. I think you would be surprised how much that extra AS helps. You must remember that for Taric, auto-attacks mean mana and heal cooldowns. This is vital. Nashor's Tooth is just enough AS to put him up from unbearably slow to rockin' out.

    Honestly, if you're not playing aggressively with Taric, I would argue that you're doing it wrong. And Nashor's Tooth just helps so much with that. Spirit Visage too, because every heal also heals you, and that extra 20% goes such a long way. It also boosts his self-heal to 168%, or 504 with no AP.

    BTW, is it just me, or is spirit visage vastly underrated? MR, CR and Regen boosts+cheap?

    schuss on
  • TannerMSTannerMS Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    so XZ is a lot of fun but I'm going to retire him before I start getting too dependent on his current state

    is the "all BS all the time" for AD Ezreal really the way to go? that almost seems like a snowball build, just because getting even one BS can take a little while, even with someone as good at lasthitting as Ez is

    guide my AD Ezreal

    should I be getting things that benefit my autoattack (phantom dancer, stark's fervor, etc) or really just getting AD?

    I've never played Ezrael, but all the ones that have given me issues were stacking AD or AP.

    If you're worried about the high item cost of that first BF sword, use items like Brutalizer, Sheen (Activates and applies on 1 Q shot), a Pickaxe (could go into IE later I suppose), and Elixers of Fortitude. Solo Lizard as early as possible (Lizard slow and DoT applies on your Q). A bit of mana regen probably couldn't hurt, but I feel like it's something of a crutch for people who can't manage their mana, especially for AD Ez.

    TannerMS on
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I just realized Starcraft II is coming out. How much is that going to kill the population in LoL I wonder.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Why is the Woad Ashe skin so expensive? And why don't they put youtube vids of the skins in action up or something, rather than like one static picture.

    975 isn't expensive at all. You can complain when the skin you want costs 1850 like my coveted Firefighter Tristana skin.

    Lucascraft on
  • TannerMSTannerMS Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    jdmichal wrote: »

    Honestly, if you're not playing aggressively with Taric, I would argue that you're doing it wrong. And Nashor's Tooth just helps so much with that. Spirit Visage too, because every heal also heals you, and that extra 20% goes such a long way. It also boosts his self-heal to 168%, or 504 with no AP.

    We might be having a disconnect over what aggressive play is, but Taric himself isn't doing anything by being aggressive. If his laning partner is pushing hard, he should too; but if his partner is more reserved, he's just asking to eat harrassment since he has no real way to threaten people. You can only be as aggressive as your allies because you aren't a threat by yourself.

    That being said, nothing against Nashor's, but you'd be surprised how many guides there are out there advocating full Attack Speed or Mejai's -> RoA -> Zhonya's builds.

    TannerMS on
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Nanaki wrote: »
    Who said there's no denying in this game? I just played Pirate for the first time last night and he has the ability to kill off one of his OWN minions?! What the hell is the point of that? How does that raise morale?!

    That game Annie and I rocked house. One time after her tibber-stun and my ult had finished the team off, I got to thinking. Evil, evil plots ran through my head until finally I snapped and shot Tibbers just to see if i could. He insta-died!

    Curiousity killed the tibbers! (I LOVE cheesey jokes, sorry :))

    It's a play on the "the beating will continue until moral improves" sentiment. Shoot one guy and everyone fights harder so that they aren't shot :P And it will instakill any friendly minion regardless of health, though it is hilarious that it works on friendly champion pets.

    Tag on
    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
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    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
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  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    so XZ is a lot of fun but I'm going to retire him before I start getting too dependent on his current state

    is the "all BS all the time" for AD Ezreal really the way to go? that almost seems like a snowball build, just because getting even one BS can take a little while, even with someone as good at lasthitting as Ez is

    guide my AD Ezreal

    should I be getting things that benefit my autoattack (phantom dancer, stark's fervor, etc) or really just getting AD?

    May I direct you to...
    Melkster wrote: »
    Best Ezreal strategy:

    Get one of each B.F. Sword item.
    2vv2v0g.jpg

    Seriously, though, in that game I built one of each B.F. sword item just for funsies. I normally don't do that.

    Ezreal's item build needs to be pretty fluid, though I always start out the same:

    - Sapphire Crystal
    - Once you hit ~1300 gold, go back and grab Sheen, Boots, and a Sight Ward or two.

    From there, you have a few choices. I usually start stacking B.F. Swords unless there's a better reason to do something different. Sometimes I get a Brutalizer, though IMO the CDR is not effectively used on Ezreal. Sometimes I get a Phage if I think I need the health. Sometimes I even build a Trinity Force. Sometimes I'll rush a Bloodthirster more quickly for the Lifesteal. Sometimes I need quicker boots so I'll go for them. Once or twice I've even built a Banshee's veil.

    Melkster on
  • BatmantisBatmantis Registered User
    edited July 2010
    jdmichal wrote: »
    Batmantis wrote: »
    I'm trying to figure out which champions to play that are good, but don't get banned every game. Right now I'm playing Shen, XZ, and Amumu, which roughly translates to "I play Amumu". How good is Taric?

    Taric is awful. Don't play him!

    Just kidding. I get jealous easy. He's a great support / tank champion, if that's your cup of tea. It is mine, so I enjoy playing him.

    Just go defensive masteries, getting Ardor (tier 5, +AP, +AS) if you can. Good items are Chalice, Nashor's Tooth, Spirit Visage, Archangel's Staff, Aegis. (In roughly that order.) Boots should almost always be Mercury's Treads.

    Thanks for the tips. Nashor and Spirit Visage are really good on him. I love playing top tier.

    Edit: What masteries are best? I'm currently 21/9/0.

    Batmantis on
    Play with me people!
    LOL: Batmantis
    MTGO: Batmantis88
  • SlicerSlicer Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Kennen ftw for potential mass-stuns and general splash nastiness.

    So Nidalee's free. Any tips on how to build her?

    Just gonna quote a previous post I made about Nidalee because I'm lazy!
    Slicer wrote: »
    I usually go with magic pen marks, and for masteries I go 9/0/21, picking flash and clairvoyance for spotting and escaping from ganks.

    I start out with a Sapphire Crystal and I try not to teleport back to base until I can upgrade it to a Sheen and get Boots of Mobility. After that I like to get a Rylai's for more health and the slow is pretty handy as it affects cougar abilities along with her javelin and traps. Then it's usually a tossup between upgrading the Sheen to Lichbane or getting a Rageblade first, I usually think of how much I want the bonus movespeed and MR from Lichbane when making my choice. After that it depends on how the game is going, if I need more survivability I'll get a Banshee's and if not I usually pick up a Gunblade if the game goes on long enough.

    Slicer on
  • Charles KinboteCharles Kinbote Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Melkster wrote: »
    so XZ is a lot of fun but I'm going to retire him before I start getting too dependent on his current state

    is the "all BS all the time" for AD Ezreal really the way to go? that almost seems like a snowball build, just because getting even one BS can take a little while, even with someone as good at lasthitting as Ez is

    guide my AD Ezreal

    should I be getting things that benefit my autoattack (phantom dancer, stark's fervor, etc) or really just getting AD?

    May I direct you to...
    Melkster wrote: »
    Best Ezreal strategy:

    Get one of each B.F. Sword item.
    2vv2v0g.jpg

    Seriously, though, in that game I built one of each B.F. sword item just for funsies. I normally don't do that.

    Ezreal's item build needs to be pretty fluid, though I always start out the same:

    - Sapphire Crystal
    - Once you hit ~1300 gold, go back and grab Sheen, Boots, and a Sight Ward or two.

    From there, you have a few choices. I usually start stacking B.F. Swords unless there's a better reason to do something different. Sometimes I get a Brutalizer, though IMO the CDR is not effectively used on Ezreal. Sometimes I get a Phage if I think I need the health. Sometimes I even build a Trinity Force. Sometimes I'll rush a Bloodthirster more quickly for the Lifesteal. Sometimes I need quicker boots so I'll go for them. Once or twice I've even built a Banshee's veil.

    well no offense but this doesn't really help me much because I don't know under what circumstances I'd buy these different things

    also, is AP ez with lich's bane as bad as everyone says, or what is the story there

    Charles Kinbote on
    www.twitter.com/amazingwarlock
  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    TannerMS wrote: »
    jdmichal wrote: »

    Honestly, if you're not playing aggressively with Taric, I would argue that you're doing it wrong. And Nashor's Tooth just helps so much with that. Spirit Visage too, because every heal also heals you, and that extra 20% goes such a long way. It also boosts his self-heal to 168%, or 504 with no AP.

    We might be having a disconnect over what aggressive play is, but Taric himself isn't doing anything by being aggressive. If his laning partner is pushing hard, he should too; but if his partner is more reserved, he's just asking to eat harrassment since he has no real way to threaten people. You can only be as aggressive as your allies because you aren't a threat by yourself.

    That being said, nothing against Nashor's, but you'd be surprised how many guides there are out there advocating full Attack Speed or Mejai's -> RoA -> Zhonya's builds.

    You should play a game with me. The laning phase is all about Taric Dazzling and being in your face. I mid against Ashe and win. There is no such thing as harassment, because I will heal it all back almost instantaneously, and to little detriment since I am auto-attacking all the time. Some lane combinations I will be forced to be more defensive, but I hate hate hate doing so, because it's like Tristana having to tower hug early game. You know it's going to screw you later.

    TLDR: If you're afraid of harassment as Taric, I don't know what to tell ya.
    Batmantis wrote: »
    Thanks for the tips. Nashor and Spirit Visage are really good on him. I love playing top tier.

    Edit: What masteries are best? I'm currently 21/9/0.

    I always go defensive masteries with Taric. Ardor and the extra HP is just so good for him, and he must be able to survive in the middle of the fray. I'm only level 21, so I go straight down one tree right now. I would probably mix utility with the defense tree for the MPs, as that is by far my most limiting factor.

    Runes are magic pen red, mp/5 yellow, and cdr blue, with health quints.

    jdmichal on
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    SC2: KillerCodeMk | LoL: KillerCodeMonky | FFXIV: Shea Demvas (Sargantas)
    Ghost in the Linkshell Item Requisitioning
    Let me know you are from PA, otherwise I will likely ignore you.
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Melkster wrote: »
    so XZ is a lot of fun but I'm going to retire him before I start getting too dependent on his current state

    is the "all BS all the time" for AD Ezreal really the way to go? that almost seems like a snowball build, just because getting even one BS can take a little while, even with someone as good at lasthitting as Ez is

    guide my AD Ezreal

    should I be getting things that benefit my autoattack (phantom dancer, stark's fervor, etc) or really just getting AD?

    May I direct you to...
    Melkster wrote: »
    Best Ezreal strategy:

    Get one of each B.F. Sword item.
    2vv2v0g.jpg

    Seriously, though, in that game I built one of each B.F. sword item just for funsies. I normally don't do that.

    Ezreal's item build needs to be pretty fluid, though I always start out the same:

    - Sapphire Crystal
    - Once you hit ~1300 gold, go back and grab Sheen, Boots, and a Sight Ward or two.

    From there, you have a few choices. I usually start stacking B.F. Swords unless there's a better reason to do something different. Sometimes I get a Brutalizer, though IMO the CDR is not effectively used on Ezreal. Sometimes I get a Phage if I think I need the health. Sometimes I even build a Trinity Force. Sometimes I'll rush a Bloodthirster more quickly for the Lifesteal. Sometimes I need quicker boots so I'll go for them. Once or twice I've even built a Banshee's veil.

    well no offense but this doesn't really help me much because I don't know under what circumstances I'd buy these different things

    also, is AP ez with lich's bane as bad as everyone says, or what is the story there

    are you running/dying because you can't survive a burst? Phage for health
    Are you doing ok, but constantly low health? Thirster
    Are you being outmaneuvered? Quicker Boots
    Is the enemy team mostly casters? Banshee's

    The game is all about situational awareness and adapting to the playstyles of both your team and theirs.

    schuss on
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Melkster wrote: »
    so XZ is a lot of fun but I'm going to retire him before I start getting too dependent on his current state

    is the "all BS all the time" for AD Ezreal really the way to go? that almost seems like a snowball build, just because getting even one BS can take a little while, even with someone as good at lasthitting as Ez is

    guide my AD Ezreal

    should I be getting things that benefit my autoattack (phantom dancer, stark's fervor, etc) or really just getting AD?

    May I direct you to...
    Melkster wrote: »
    Best Ezreal strategy:

    Get one of each B.F. Sword item.
    2vv2v0g.jpg

    Seriously, though, in that game I built one of each B.F. sword item just for funsies. I normally don't do that.

    Ezreal's item build needs to be pretty fluid, though I always start out the same:

    - Sapphire Crystal
    - Once you hit ~1300 gold, go back and grab Sheen, Boots, and a Sight Ward or two.

    From there, you have a few choices. I usually start stacking B.F. Swords unless there's a better reason to do something different. Sometimes I get a Brutalizer, though IMO the CDR is not effectively used on Ezreal. Sometimes I get a Phage if I think I need the health. Sometimes I even build a Trinity Force. Sometimes I'll rush a Bloodthirster more quickly for the Lifesteal. Sometimes I need quicker boots so I'll go for them. Once or twice I've even built a Banshee's veil.

    well no offense but this doesn't really help me much because I don't know under what circumstances I'd buy these different things

    Ezreal isn't like a handful of other characters where you always want to get X every single game regardless of context. You'll have to think up some strategic reasons for picking item X over item Y, given the situation you're in.

    Example: If you find that you're lacking in survivability and your blink isn't giving you the mobility you need, that might be a good reason to get the Phage instead of a B.F. Sword because Phage increases your health by a substantial amount and slows your target.

    What I should have stated more explicitly is that Attack Damage is the most important damage-dealing stat on Ezreal. Items with on-hit effects, such as Sheen, Phage or Trinity Force, are good because Mystic Shot applies on-hit effects. With Sheen, when you hit with Mystic Shot, it will add 80% of your base damage to that Mystic Shot - which is a massive damage boost for a very early, low cost item. That's why most good Ezreal players go for Sheen quickly.

    In most games, I've found that I've been fine getting straight damage items like B.F. Swords, as I said. However, in some games you'll want to build more defensive items - such as a Banshee's Veil. I can't just tell you what to get. Go look up those items I've mentioned and then, during the game, you'll have to think about which one is appropriate to use. If you're lacking in survivability because they have highly mobile carries (like Kassadin, perhaps), then getting a Banshee's Veil might be advantageous. If you're fine with your survivability, then that's when you want to stack damage items. If you're lacking on Armor Penetration runes, you might get better use out of a Brutalizer, which gives you Armor Penetration. And so on. You have to use your brain, and though we can give you advice, you'll need to be the one making those strategic decisions.

    To answer your original question most directly, Attack Speed is not a valuable stat for items on Ezreal, and you should avoid items that have it. Critical Strike is also a sub-optimal stat for items on Ezreal (Mystic Shot cannot crit), so you should avoid items that have it too. Attack Damage scales very well with Mystic Shot, so as far as pure damage goes, get Attack Damage.

    Hopefully that is some better guidance for you.

    Melkster on
  • Charles KinboteCharles Kinbote Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    thanks dudes

    I guess my main problem was that I didn't know that Sheen immediately procced, so I was rushing Sword of the Occult or Brutalizer for a first goal and then building straight AD stuff from there

    with Sheen I bet my damage will take a serious hike

    Charles Kinbote on
    www.twitter.com/amazingwarlock
  • DkarrdeDkarrde Registered User
    edited July 2010
    thanks dudes

    I guess my main problem was that I didn't know that Sheen immediately procced, so I was rushing Sword of the Occult or Brutalizer for a first goal and then building straight AD stuff from there

    with Sheen I bet my damage will take a serious hike

    It's the same thing as with Gangplank's Parrrley. Because the buff occurs when a spell is cast, you gain the buff as soon as you cast Parrrley/Mystic Shot, and then it immediately applies when the projectile impacts because both of these abilities apply on-hit effects. It's kind of a quirk in the mechanic, but apparently an intended one since they never removed it.

    Keep in mind that the buff from Sheen/Trinity Force is not total damage -- it's base damage. So it adds 80%/130% of your base damage to your next attack, not including any items or whatnot. It's still a good boost, but don't overestimate what it does.

    The last thing to remember is that with both of these items, "can only occur once every three seconds" actually means "can only occur twice every six seconds", more or less. They issued a clarification that Sheen and Triforce can "stock" 1 charge in reserve, so that you can use the 1 reserve proc, and then the next ability within 3 seconds will also proc the item effect. After that, though, you'll need to wait for it to reload, so to speak.

    Dkarrde on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Charles KinboteCharles Kinbote Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    so...can someone explain to me why, if Sheen only adds base damage, Lich Bane AP builds are not good for Ez? if it's just a matter of damage (and it sounds like it really is all about rushing AD), one could get a lot of AP much quicker than AD and be doing absolutely insane Mystic Shot damage. Also, AP items have Mana, Mp5 and MR, all of which seems more useful to a mystic-shot-spamming Ez than the sorts of things on AD items (say, AS, LS or CDR)

    I'm having a hard time seeing how AD items (which are typically more expensive compared to the same amount of AP) yield higher damage Mystic Shots after the ten- or fifteen-minute mark in games, to say nothing of the bonuses to Essence Flux and Trueshot Barrage

    Charles Kinbote on
    www.twitter.com/amazingwarlock
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So, yeah... I played a game with a guy that wouldn't upgrade items. He's wait until he could buy a big item outright before buying it at all. And bought a Doran's shield as his fourth item.

    We still won though. My biggest regret is that I didn't get to play around much with my final item or buy some armor. Second biggest regret is the 4 deaths from trying to bail out teamates who split on you. I'm slowly getting better at this game. =X
    lolwin1.png

    vagrant_winds on
    // Steam: VWinds // LoL: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
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  • DkarrdeDkarrde Registered User
    edited July 2010
    so...can someone explain to me why, if Sheen only adds base damage, Lich Bane AP builds are not good for Ez? if it's just a matter of damage (and it sounds like it really is all about rushing AD), one could get a lot of AP much quicker than AD and be doing absolutely insane Mystic Shot damage. Also, AP items have Mana, Mp5 and MR, all of which seems more useful to a mystic-shot-spamming Ez than the sorts of things on AD items (say, AS, LS or CDR)

    I'm having a hard time seeing how AD items (which are typically more expensive compared to the same amount of AP) yield higher damage Mystic Shots after the ten- or fifteen-minute mark in games, to say nothing of the bonuses to Essence Flux and Trueshot Barrage

    Mystic Shot deals 120% of Ezreal's attack damage plus a rank-based modifier as physical damage -- that is to say, it has no AP scaling. The only bonus you would get to Mystic Shot with an AP build is through Lichbane, which wouldn't proc nearly often enough to come anywhere close to the damage AD Ezreal can put out with Mystic Shot + Rising Spell Force enhanced autoattacks (he gains 15% attack speed for 6 seconds, stacking 5 times up to 75% IAS, whenever he casts a spell), with or without Tri-force.

    Essence Flux has an AP ratio of .6, and Trueshot Barrage a ratio of .7. They're just not comparable to Mystic Shot's 1.2 AD ratio against a single target, even if you were to include the high-cooldown Arcane Shift's damage (.75 ratio) as well. AP Ezreal will not come anywhere near AD Ezreal's sustained damage.

    Frankly, I think they drastically overnerfed AP Ezreal, because he doesn't really compete at all, even with Trueshot Barrage.

    Dkarrde on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Charles KinboteCharles Kinbote Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Dkarrde wrote: »
    so...can someone explain to me why, if Sheen only adds base damage, Lich Bane AP builds are not good for Ez? if it's just a matter of damage (and it sounds like it really is all about rushing AD), one could get a lot of AP much quicker than AD and be doing absolutely insane Mystic Shot damage. Also, AP items have Mana, Mp5 and MR, all of which seems more useful to a mystic-shot-spamming Ez than the sorts of things on AD items (say, AS, LS or CDR)

    I'm having a hard time seeing how AD items (which are typically more expensive compared to the same amount of AP) yield higher damage Mystic Shots after the ten- or fifteen-minute mark in games, to say nothing of the bonuses to Essence Flux and Trueshot Barrage

    Mystic Shot deals 120% of Ezreal's attack damage plus a rank-based modifier as physical damage -- that is to say, it has no AP scaling. The only bonus you would get to Mystic Shot with an AP build is through Lichbane, which wouldn't proc nearly often enough to come anywhere close to the damage AD Ezreal can put out with Mystic Shot + Rising Spell Force enhanced autoattacks (he gains 15% attack speed for 6 seconds, stacking 5 times up to 75% IAS, whenever he casts a spell), with or without Tri-force.

    Essence Flux has an AP ratio of .6, and Trueshot Barrage a ratio of .7. They're just not comparable to Mystic Shot's 1.2 AD ratio against a single target, even if you were to include the high-cooldown Arcane Shift's damage (.75 ratio) as well. AP Ezreal will not come anywhere near AD Ezreal's sustained damage.

    Frankly, I think they drastically overnerfed AP Ezreal, because he doesn't really compete at all, even with Trueshot Barrage.

    I mean, Lich Bane is what I was talking about...

    can it only proc once every three seconds too? I didn't see that in the tooltip

    I feel like there's something of a double standard here because people say "oh, no, you won't autoattack as Ez, you'll really just be spamming mystic shot, don't bother getting crit or much ls" and then turn around and say "you can't go AP, your autoattacks will suffer!" but I'm probably misunderstanding the situation

    Charles Kinbote on
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  • TannerMSTannerMS Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I mean, Lich Bane is what I was talking about...

    can it only proc once every three seconds too? I didn't see that in the tooltip

    I feel like there's something of a double standard here because people say "oh, no, you won't autoattack as Ez, you'll really just be spamming mystic shot, don't bother getting crit or much ls" and then turn around and say "you can't go AP, your autoattacks will suffer!" but I'm probably misunderstanding the situation

    Lich Bane does have the 3s restriction on its procs (Or maybe it doesn't and everything I've ever known is wrong, but as a frequent user, I'm fairly sure). AD applies to Mystic Shot and auto-attacks, LS and Crit only apply to auto-attacks. Every time you use Q, you're wasting the gold you spent on Crit or Life Steal. It's simply inefficient to invest significant amounts of gold in Crit/LS when so much of your damage comes from something that only scales with AD.

    TannerMS on
  • Charles KinboteCharles Kinbote Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    ok

    well

    I'll stick with AD for now but when riot gets my seriously worded letter and says that Lich Bane has no cap on procs and that all Ez's abilities have 2.0 AP scaling, I'm gonna go AP

    Charles Kinbote on
    www.twitter.com/amazingwarlock
  • nealcmnealcm Alvarian AlvarianRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Dkarrde wrote: »
    so...can someone explain to me why, if Sheen only adds base damage, Lich Bane AP builds are not good for Ez? if it's just a matter of damage (and it sounds like it really is all about rushing AD), one could get a lot of AP much quicker than AD and be doing absolutely insane Mystic Shot damage. Also, AP items have Mana, Mp5 and MR, all of which seems more useful to a mystic-shot-spamming Ez than the sorts of things on AD items (say, AS, LS or CDR)

    I'm having a hard time seeing how AD items (which are typically more expensive compared to the same amount of AP) yield higher damage Mystic Shots after the ten- or fifteen-minute mark in games, to say nothing of the bonuses to Essence Flux and Trueshot Barrage

    Mystic Shot deals 120% of Ezreal's attack damage plus a rank-based modifier as physical damage -- that is to say, it has no AP scaling. The only bonus you would get to Mystic Shot with an AP build is through Lichbane, which wouldn't proc nearly often enough to come anywhere close to the damage AD Ezreal can put out with Mystic Shot + Rising Spell Force enhanced autoattacks (he gains 15% attack speed for 6 seconds, stacking 5 times up to 75% IAS, whenever he casts a spell), with or without Tri-force.

    Essence Flux has an AP ratio of .6, and Trueshot Barrage a ratio of .7. They're just not comparable to Mystic Shot's 1.2 AD ratio against a single target, even if you were to include the high-cooldown Arcane Shift's damage (.75 ratio) as well. AP Ezreal will not come anywhere near AD Ezreal's sustained damage.

    Frankly, I think they drastically overnerfed AP Ezreal, because he doesn't really compete at all, even with Trueshot Barrage.

    they fixed the mystic shot buff, it went back to 110%

    nealcm on
    19ZUtIw.png
  • ConstrictorConstrictor The Dork Knight SuburbialandRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Nanaki wrote: »
    Who said there's no denying in this game? I just played Pirate for the first time last night and he has the ability to kill off one of his OWN minions?! What the hell is the point of that? How does that raise morale?!

    That game Annie and I rocked house. One time after her tibber-stun and my ult had finished the team off, I got to thinking. Evil, evil plots ran through my head until finally I snapped and shot Tibbers just to see if i could. He insta-died!

    Curiousity killed the tibbers! (I LOVE cheesey jokes, sorry :))

    Think about Gangplank as the captain of his minion 'crew'. He raises the morale of the rest of the crew by shooting the underperforming minion as an example to the rest. That's the old joke - "The beatings will continue until morale improves."

    Constrictor on
  • DkarrdeDkarrde Registered User
    edited July 2010
    nealcm wrote: »
    they fixed the mystic shot buff, it went back to 110%

    Mmh, I don't play him. The official site still says 120%, so that's what I was going by.

    That said, everything still holds, if slightly less severely.

    Dkarrde on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Dkarrde wrote: »
    so...can someone explain to me why, if Sheen only adds base damage, Lich Bane AP builds are not good for Ez? if it's just a matter of damage (and it sounds like it really is all about rushing AD), one could get a lot of AP much quicker than AD and be doing absolutely insane Mystic Shot damage. Also, AP items have Mana, Mp5 and MR, all of which seems more useful to a mystic-shot-spamming Ez than the sorts of things on AD items (say, AS, LS or CDR)

    I'm having a hard time seeing how AD items (which are typically more expensive compared to the same amount of AP) yield higher damage Mystic Shots after the ten- or fifteen-minute mark in games, to say nothing of the bonuses to Essence Flux and Trueshot Barrage

    Mystic Shot deals 120% of Ezreal's attack damage plus a rank-based modifier as physical damage -- that is to say, it has no AP scaling. The only bonus you would get to Mystic Shot with an AP build is through Lichbane, which wouldn't proc nearly often enough to come anywhere close to the damage AD Ezreal can put out with Mystic Shot + Rising Spell Force enhanced autoattacks (he gains 15% attack speed for 6 seconds, stacking 5 times up to 75% IAS, whenever he casts a spell), with or without Tri-force.

    Essence Flux has an AP ratio of .6, and Trueshot Barrage a ratio of .7. They're just not comparable to Mystic Shot's 1.2 AD ratio against a single target, even if you were to include the high-cooldown Arcane Shift's damage (.75 ratio) as well. AP Ezreal will not come anywhere near AD Ezreal's sustained damage.

    Frankly, I think they drastically overnerfed AP Ezreal, because he doesn't really compete at all, even with Trueshot Barrage.

    I mean, Lich Bane is what I was talking about...

    can it only proc once every three seconds too? I didn't see that in the tooltip

    I feel like there's something of a double standard here because people say "oh, no, you won't autoattack as Ez, you'll really just be spamming mystic shot, don't bother getting crit or much ls" and then turn around and say "you can't go AP, your autoattacks will suffer!" but I'm probably misunderstanding the situation

    I don't know who said that you don't autoattack as Ez, because they were wrong. You do. Alot. In the actual meat of the teamfight -- not just the harassment bit at the start or the chasing at the end -- you'll be autoattacking. You'll also be using your other abilities -- but autoattacking is a major part of that.

    It's also a major part of early game skirmishes. It's actually a major part of everything Ezreal does, except for long ranged harassment. Autoattacking is very important.

    Melkster on
  • DkarrdeDkarrde Registered User
    edited July 2010
    Melkster wrote: »
    I don't know who said that you don't autoattack as Ez, because they were wrong. You do. Alot. In the actual meat of the teamfight -- not just the harassment bit at the start or the chasing at the end -- you'll be autoattacking. You'll also be using your other abilities -- but autoattacking is a major part of that.

    It's also a major part of early game skirmishes. It's actually a major part of everything Ezreal does, except for long ranged harassment. Autoattacking is very important.

    Yeah, Ez's autoattack damage is huge when he's built AD, in part because of the 15-75% IAS boost he receives spamming his spells. The only AD character I can think of who doesn't autoattack much is Katarina, and even with her you should keep one eye open for an opportunity to take a swing.

    Dkarrde on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Charles KinboteCharles Kinbote Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    so with AD Ez, should I even build Sheen into anything? if I'm not gonna be getting AP, then Lich Bane is out, and Trinity Force is handy but that's a whole lot of money that could be spent on a whole lot more AD

    Charles Kinbote on
    www.twitter.com/amazingwarlock
  • ArmLionArmLion Registered User
    edited July 2010
    Well I finally played a few games... and even against fellow n00bs I'm extremely terrible, but I admit the game is pretty fun... don't think I'm ready to spend any money on it, but I guess the fact that I don't have to is one of the things that's coolest about it.

    ArmLion on
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    so with AD Ez, should I even build Sheen into anything? if I'm not gonna be getting AP, then Lich Bane is out, and Trinity Force is handy but that's a whole lot of money that could be spent on a whole lot more AD

    I often don't build it into anything. Instead I spend my money on fort pots, BF Swords, etc.

    Melkster on
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    ArmLion wrote: »
    Well I finally played a few games... and even against fellow n00bs I'm extremely terrible, but I admit the game is pretty fun... don't think I'm ready to spend any money on it, but I guess the fact that I don't have to is one of the things that's coolest about it.

    It's even better that way. You'll have a time to feel out characters before dropping a few bucks on skinning a favorite.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    ArmLion wrote: »
    Well I finally played a few games... and even against fellow n00bs I'm extremely terrible, but I admit the game is pretty fun... don't think I'm ready to spend any money on it, but I guess the fact that I don't have to is one of the things that's coolest about it.

    It's even better that way. You'll have a time to feel out characters before dropping a few bucks on skinning a favorite.

    So true. Also, try different types of characters. I always play a glass cannon in MMO's, so I thought I'd be good as a nuker. Turns out I'm a tank?!?

    schuss on
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Melk how do you feel about Sword of the Occult for Ez?

    Fiaryn on
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  • DkarrdeDkarrde Registered User
    edited July 2010
    so with AD Ez, should I even build Sheen into anything? if I'm not gonna be getting AP, then Lich Bane is out, and Trinity Force is handy but that's a whole lot of money that could be spent on a whole lot more AD

    That's one way to go, but Triforce provides maximum health, a big chunk of move speed, Phage's chance to snare (with Ez's high attack speed, it should proc quite often), crit chance... there's really nothing in Triforce that AD Ez wouldn't find useful. Buying a BF sword first might well have its benefits, though.

    Dkarrde on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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