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Pre Fight Debate Thread: Brackets 27 & 28

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Posts

  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I've said this a thousand times and it continues to be discounted. Taskmaster would not be killed by Nimrod because he is not stupid enough to simply open fire on someone with Nimrod's prowess. However, Taskmaster could never win this fight alone or without an extensive plan. He just lacks the physical power and credentials to prove to be effective. He could of course run away and come back later with help to defeat Nimrod, sure. However that is not the case. Taskmaster realizes he is outclassed and simply leaves. Nimrod wins by fucking logic.

    DasUberEdward on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User
    edited January 2007
    JCM wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:
    X-Force36p18.jpg
    1) Again, for the 100th time, that Nimrod is a modern-day Nimrod. Made in the present time. Old technology. An anonamility. You keep on missing that point.

    THIS IS THE REAL NIMROD.
    585px-Nimrodcross.PNG

    He's not old technology. He's a rebuilt Nimrod from the future inhabited by that very same Nimrod's artificial consciousness.

    X-Force36p17.jpg

    Notice the references to his "original body". This is the same Nimrod as the one that was destroyed, arising again after downloading his programming into the military cyber-net so it could once again inhabit a Sentinel body through the Sentinel program.

    A "modern-day" Nimrod is impossible because Nimrod is too advanced for modern technologies to build. All Nimrods are future-tech, even if one version was made in the present through pieced together future-tech.
    2) Taskmaster isnt Cable, nor knows a quarter of Cable just said. Show me one page where he speaks something on the mutant cause...
    60 years before the original?
    Programming?
    25 years of killing?
    Full-mutant-scale warfere (THAT DID HAPPEN IN NIMROD`s FUTURE TIMELINE).

    All these are facts. Cable knows it all, from past to future. You´d have to think us stupid to make us believe that Taskmaster knows that. As I said before, Cable DIDNT LIE. Cable to him THE TRUTH about his future. Not popcorn movie BS that FUTURE Nimrod would laugh at before blowing TAsky away.

    Actually, it's not Cable but rather a female scientist who asks Nimrod to calculate the loss of human life that would result from his existence (see the bottom panel of the first image you quoted) and ultimately convinces him to shut himself down. She knows nothing about time travel and is not, herself, even a mutant. All she did was build her own Nimrod only to see its programming overwritten by that of the original Nimrod who then proceeded to use its own knowledge to upgrade its body and fight mutants using its own methods.

    This woman, like Taskmaster, has none of Cable's knowledge that you seem to think is so integral. Rather, all she did was make a crude Nimrod imitation that was swiftly overtaken by the mind of the original Nimrod. Afterwards, all she did to stop Nimrod was point out the obvious contradiction inherent in killing humans in the process of protecting humans.
    3) That Nimrod´s programming was written by who?

    This is Nimrod's original programming, not programming created by present day humans.



    And the Taskmaster redesign has appeared in the UDON mini, throughout the entirety of the Agent X series, and more recently in Cable & Deadpool.

    The bumbling Taskmaster who lost to butler appeared in a short arc in Moon Knight (written by someone who admitted he knew nothing about Taskmaster) while the one who lost to Hawkeye and Antman (Antman both made and has defeated Ultron, so he isn't as weak as you portray him) appeared in only one issue.

    The majority of Taskmaster's most recent appearances reflect the character initially presented in the UDON mini.

    robosagogo on
  • JCMJCM Registered User
    edited January 2007
    A "modern-day" Nimrod is impossible because Nimrod is too advanced for modern technologies to build. All Nimrods are future-tech, even if one version was made in the present through pieced together future-tech.

    Thats why its not as strong as the original Nimrod, depending too much on firepower. And funny how you claim its not complex for taskmaster, but its complex for the world?
    Actually, it's not Cable but rather a female scientist who asks Nimrod to calculate the loss of human life that would result from his existence (see the bottom panel of the first image you quoted) and ultimately convinces him to shut himself down. She knows nothing about time travel and is not, herself, even a mutant. All she did was build her own Nimrod only to see its


    Really? I guess the grey haired guy is a female scientist, and another one just drives the point in. And again, all said are things that Taskmaster knows squat about.

    This woman, like Taskmaster, has none of Cable's knowledge that you seem to think is so integral. Rather, all she did was make a crude Nimrod imitation that was swiftly overtaken by the mind of the original Nimrod. Afterwards, all she did to stop Nimrod was point out the obvious contradiction inherent in killing humans in the process of protecting humans.

    Wow, funny how youve just ignored everything Cable said, and jumped straight to the panel where she says something. What did she say? the time the real Nimrod was supposed to appear. Oh wait, and guess what, the woman knows enough to BUILD AN ADVANCED sentinel, something even you cant pull out of your arse that Taskmaster can do.

    No not only Taskmaster has to guess, he has to give an argumenet as solid and based on facts as the argument put forth by a time-traveller AND a scientist who manages to build an advanced sentinel.

    Even less chance for Tasky.
    This is Nimrod's original programming, not programming created by present day humans.

    BS again. Nimrod´s programming is adaptable to the enviroment. Thats why in his first goddam story he changed his directives from
    a) killing all mutants to
    b) killing dangerous mutants to
    c) killing criminals.

    Oh, and you do know that Nimrod is a mass-produced Sentinel in the future right? Its just one that happened to come here. :wink:
    And the Taskmaster redesign has appeared in the UDON mini, throughout the entirety of the Agent X series, and more recently in Cable & Deadpool.

    The bumbling Taskmaster who lost to butler appeared in a short arc in Moon Knight (written by someone who admitted he knew nothing about Taskmaster) while the one who lost to Hawkeye and Antman (Antman both made and has defeated Ultron, so he isn't as weak as you portray him) appeared in only one issue.


    One issue?

    Riiight, lets ignore him-
    brutally beaten by Spider-woman,
    taken in by FBI agents,
    whopped by Jocatsa,
    loosing entire organisation to AntMan and Hawkeye.
    etc, face it, Taskmaster´s history is like thi

    s- Almost defeats the "new avengers" but gets his arse kicked by Jocasta, 20+ years of being a looser, oops, Udon series and for a few years he´s cool again, now he´s back to being a looser (butler, girlfiriend and Deadpool beating him). The "awesome" Taskmaster only existed for a few years, bookended by decades of suck. An anomality.

    His histoy is decades of being a looser -> awesome for a short time->looser again. And if the Deapool fight is any indicatiion, all signs lead to looser. And the voting thread here´s reflecting that too. :wink:

    JCM on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    The next tournament should just be Nimrod vs. Taskmaster vs. Zoom

    The debate would rage for months.

    Marathon on
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    JCM wrote:
    A "modern-day" Nimrod is impossible because Nimrod is too advanced for modern technologies to build. All Nimrods are future-tech, even if one version was made in the present through pieced together future-tech.

    Thats why its not as strong as the original Nimrod, depending too much on firepower. And funny how you claim its not complex for taskmaster, but its complex for the world?
    Actually, it's not Cable but rather a female scientist who asks Nimrod to calculate the loss of human life that would result from his existence (see the bottom panel of the first image you quoted) and ultimately convinces him to shut himself down. She knows nothing about time travel and is not, herself, even a mutant. All she did was build her own Nimrod only to see its


    Really? I guess the grey haired guy is a female scientist, and another one just drives the point in. And again, all said are things that Taskmaster knows squat about.

    This woman, like Taskmaster, has none of Cable's knowledge that you seem to think is so integral. Rather, all she did was make a crude Nimrod imitation that was swiftly overtaken by the mind of the original Nimrod. Afterwards, all she did to stop Nimrod was point out the obvious contradiction inherent in killing humans in the process of protecting humans.

    Wow, funny how youve just ignored everything Cable said, and jumped straight to the panel where she says something. What did she say? the time the real Nimrod was supposed to appear. Oh wait, and guess what, the woman knows enough to BUILD AN ADVANCED sentinel, something even you cant pull out of your arse that Taskmaster can do.

    No not only Taskmaster has to guess, he has to give an argumenet as solid and based on facts as the argument put forth by a time-traveller AND a scientist who manages to build an advanced sentinel.

    Even less chance for Tasky.
    This is Nimrod's original programming, not programming created by present day humans.

    BS again. Nimrod´s programming is adaptable to the enviroment. Thats why in his first goddam story he changed his directives from
    a) killing all mutants to
    b) killing dangerous mutants to
    c) killing criminals.

    Oh, and you do know that Nimrod is a mass-produced Sentinel in the future right? Its just one that happened to come here. :wink:
    And the Taskmaster redesign has appeared in the UDON mini, throughout the entirety of the Agent X series, and more recently in Cable & Deadpool.

    The bumbling Taskmaster who lost to butler appeared in a short arc in Moon Knight (written by someone who admitted he knew nothing about Taskmaster) while the one who lost to Hawkeye and Antman (Antman both made and has defeated Ultron, so he isn't as weak as you portray him) appeared in only one issue.


    One issue?

    Riiight, lets ignore him-
    brutally beaten by Spider-woman,
    taken in by FBI agents,
    whopped by Jocatsa,
    loosing entire organisation to AntMan and Hawkeye.
    etc, face it, Taskmaster´s history is like thi

    s- Almost defeats the "new avengers" but gets his arse kicked by Jocasta, 20+ years of being a looser, oops, Udon series and for a few years he´s cool again, now he´s back to being a looser (butler, girlfiriend and Deadpool beating him). The "awesome" Taskmaster only existed for a few years, bookended by decades of suck. An anomality.

    His histoy is decades of being a looser -> awesome for a short time->looser again. And if the Deapool fight is any indicatiion, all signs lead to looser. And the voting thread here´s reflecting that too. :wink:
    I think you're looking for "loser."

    And Jocasta is what, female Ultron with less durable materials? She could probably kick nimrod's ass too.

    I could write a story of Nimrod being obliterated by some random guy with a handgun, and then after it say that I never read stories where Nimrod was awesome, does that mean we should constantly quote that event? That's exactly what happened with Moon Knight, in case you missed the part where the interview was linked to with the writer that admitted it.

    Mai-Kero on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    First of all, goddamnit it is spelled loser. The debate is irritating enough without the typos, let alone minimal knowledge of the character other than every fight he has lost, really doesn't help out.

    And seriously, stating a precedent of someone losing to female Ultron as a sign of being a loser?

    If only Daredevil and his stick were around...

    Or, to be more in character, Pym and a stick being around...

    Secondly:
    Marathon wrote:
    The next tournament should just be Nimrod vs. Taskmaster vs. Zoom

    The debate would rage for months.

    Forgot to add Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Boy Blue, and Deadpool.

    The debate, it would be, eternal.

    The Lovely Bastard on
    7656367.jpg
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User
    edited January 2007
    JCM wrote:
    Thats why its not as strong as the original Nimrod, depending too much on firepower. And funny how you claim its not complex for taskmaster, but its complex for the world?

    I said it's not as complex, mentally, as Taskmaster. The human mind is geared towards self-preservation and can't easily be talked into suicide. Nimrod, while more complex mechanically such that he is a self-repairing robot with constantly improving weapons systems, ultimately has a simplistic mind that can be manipulated by one scientist with a hypothetical situation in mind.
    Really? I guess the grey haired guy is a female scientist, and another one just drives the point in. And again, all said are things that Taskmaster knows squat about.

    Cable only pointed out how Nimrod was originally made in a time period wherein most of the humans were already dead and civilian casualties were less of a concern. His future knowledge added color to his argument, but ultimately all he said was that a Nimrod in the past was likely to kill humans in spite of a prime directive to protect all humans. That point, the IMPORTANT POINT, would be true even if Nimrod didn't come from the future.

    Even if he'd been designed from scratch in modern time, he'd still be a danger to humanity and still have to shut himself down to protect humanity.
    Wow, funny how youve just ignored everything Cable said, and jumped straight to the panel where she says something. What did she say? the time the real Nimrod was supposed to appear. Oh wait, and guess what, the woman knows enough to BUILD AN ADVANCED sentinel, something even you cant pull out of your arse that Taskmaster can do.

    No not only Taskmaster has to guess, he has to give an argumenet as solid and based on facts as the argument put forth by a time-traveller AND a scientist who manages to build an advanced sentinel.

    Even less chance for Tasky.

    The woman shows that you don't NEED knowledge of the future and time travel, like Cable, to understand the contradiction inherent in a protector of humans that kills humans.

    She didn't build Nimrod either. They were researching a Nimrod model when Nimrod activated itself after the original Nimrod's consciousness overtook. Nimrod then altered itself, creating weapons systems beyond what anyone in the present could make. At the point where she's talking to Nimrod, she can't even begin to understand Nimrod's design because it's so far beyond present technology. Since she doesn't understand time travel either, she's knows as much as Taskmaster would at this point.

    And the woman's argument isn't based on facts. Cable and her have GUESSED that a Nimrod in modern time would kill lots of humans. They have no proof that it would. That's why Nimrod had to prove it to himself, and he had to consider the guess and see if he could prove its truth because all Nimrods seem designed to accept all conversational input even as they try to kill you.

    BS again. Nimrod´s programming is adaptable to the enviroment. Thats why in his first goddam story he changed his directives from
    a) killing all mutants to
    b) killing dangerous mutants to
    c) killing criminals.

    Oh, and you do know that Nimrod is a mass-produced Sentinel in the future right? Its just one that happened to come here. :wink:

    Did you even read the first Nimrod story, or are you guessing? You haven't offered any explanations as to what Nimrod was adapting to when he changed his directives.

    In any case, the Nimrod who is competing (the most recent one) is only interested in killing all mutants. Without anything to convince him to change from his primary directive, it won't change.
    One issue?

    Riiight, lets ignore him-
    brutally beaten by Spider-woman,
    taken in by FBI agents,
    whopped by Jocatsa,
    loosing entire organisation to AntMan and Hawkeye.
    etc, face it, Taskmaster´s history is like thi

    s- Almost defeats the "new avengers" but gets his arse kicked by Jocasta, 20+ years of being a looser, oops, Udon series and for a few years he´s cool again, now he´s back to being a looser (butler, girlfiriend and Deadpool beating him). The "awesome" Taskmaster only existed for a few years, bookended by decades of suck. An anomality.

    His histoy is decades of being a looser -> awesome for a short time->looser again. And if the Deapool fight is any indicatiion, all signs lead to looser. And the voting thread here´s reflecting that too. :wink:

    The Taskmaster who was nominated was the "awesome" Taskmaster, and you can't really offer all the times he has lost as proof that he sucks when you don't know the context of his losses. Jocasta beat Ultron, you know, and Ultron isn't a "looser".

    And anomality isn't a word.





    Additionally, Taskmaster has a 100% shot at victory if he recognizes that he can't beat Nimrod, finds a phone, calls Deadpool (who is still friends with Taskmaster, as much as mercenaries can be friends), asks him for Cable's number, and then asks Cable how to beat Nimrod.

    Taskmaster would think to contact Cable because news broadcasts have shown Nimrod fighting various X-people and losing (showing Nimrod can be beaten, at least by people like the X-Men, X-Force, excetera, and X-People therefore know HOW to beat him), Cable has gone on record as saying that he is from the future (like Nimrod) and gave numerous interviews at the beginning of Cable & Deadpool likely citing his history, Cable is the only X-Person Taskmaster could conceivably contact, and Taskmaster knows that any mutant in the world would be willing to help even him if it meant deactivating a Sentinel.

    It's not flashy, but it's still a win. It's also completely within Taskmaster's power and, for those of you who are so desperate for proof within canon (as if nothing that hasn't been explicitly shown in comics were impossible), is accompanied by scans showing that Cable knows how to make a Nimrod deactivate.

    robosagogo on
  • IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Yes, because the robotic death machine is going to chill for awhile while TM asks for a time-out to make some phone calls.

    Why isn't this bracket closed yet?

    Iroh on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Iroh wrote:
    Yes, because the robotic death machine is going to chill for awhile while TM asks for a time-out to make some phone calls.

    Why isn't this bracket closed yet?
    Robotic death machine decided to chill awhile while Cable called a timeout to talk to him. Nimrod battles by reacting to other people's attacks. He won't do much damage if you don't have any powers and aren't throwing bombs at him, forcing him to respond in kind. Remember the scan where he didn't try to kill X-23 until she almost killed him and didn't shock Dust and Surge until they attacked him? He could've vaporized those two like he tried to vaporize X-23 (and they would've died instead hanging on due to a healing factor), but he didn't because he's programmed against excessive force. As long as Taskmaster doesn't unnecessarily escalate things, he has enough time for a phone call.

    And you can make a phone call while dodging attacks. Taskmaster might even have a comm-link in his cowl, like most people seem too, but I'm not going to make that assumption because someone will just tell me I'm making stuff up.



    All this, of course, is only needed if you don't accept that Taskmaster would think of how to defeat Nimrod on his own.

    robosagogo on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Marathon wrote:
    The next tournament should just be Nimrod vs. Taskmaster vs. Zoom

    The debate would rage for months.

    That's not the REAL Nimrod though! It's a FAKE Nimrod because it was defeated and Nimrod is obviously unbeatable. Every fight we see him in where he is defeated is a fake Nimrod.

    He has never lost. Likewise, this is the 30th Taskmaster, because the other 29 died in fights with Nimrod off-panel.
    Forgot to add Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Boy Blue, and Deadpool.
    We also need Martian Manhunter and Despero.

    The world needs more Prof X + Superman-types.

    The Muffin Man on
  • JCMJCM Registered User
    edited January 2007
    That's not the REAL Nimrod though! It's a FAKE Nimrod because it was defeated and Nimrod is obviously unbeatable.

    Technically the real Nimrod has been tossed more times back into the timestream than girls have had sex in "sex and the city", so he is beatable. Just not by Taskmaster, by the "paradox" reasoning.

    Martian Manhunter would soo eat both for dinner.

    JCM on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Forgot to add Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Boy Blue, and Deadpool.
    We also need Martian Manhunter and Despero.

    The world needs more Prof X + Superman-types.

    Fuck, throw in Pre-HoM Scarlet Witch, Franklin Richards, and Dr. Strange.

    World neads more Deus Ex Machina as well

    The Lovely Bastard on
    7656367.jpg
  • ArcibiArcibi Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Forgot to add Elijah Snow, Ambrose Chase, Boy Blue, and Deadpool.
    We also need Martian Manhunter and Despero.

    The world needs more Prof X + Superman-types.

    Fuck, throw in Pre-HoM Scarlet Witch, Franklin Richards, and Dr. Strange.

    World neads more Deus Ex Machina as well

    And Batman

    Don't forget Batman

    Arcibi on
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  • JCMJCM Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Madrox

    Sebastian Shaw

    Hitman (DC)

    Omni-man

    Jesse Custer

    JCM on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    JCM wrote:
    Madrox

    Sebastian Shaw

    Hitman (DC)

    Omni-man

    Jesse Custer

    Is it wrong I had no idea who wrote Hitman, until I read "...specializes in killing superhumans..." and immediately thought "Oh jesus, I bet Ennis wrote it."

    The Muffin Man on
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