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Pre Fight Debate Thread: Brackets 27 & 28

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    Peeps ChickenPeeps Chicken Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    robosagogo wrote:
    Even if they don't, someone with a rocket launcher and EMP weaponry is bound to helicopter in immediately.

    I love the image of an EMP weapon mounted on a helicopter.

    "Dammit, why do all our helicopters keep crashing?!"

    Peeps Chicken on
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    Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    robosagogo wrote:
    Majidah wrote:
    The nuke scenario is pretty unlikely. Los Alamos isn't a nuclear lanuch facility, it's more of a nuclear repair and R&D facillity. They don't have nukes lying around armed ready to go off. Besides Doom never said the place was cleared, I'm pretty sure the security forces aren't just gonna let either contestant waltz into a lab and set off a nuke (assuming they even knew how to make it go).

    I think TM's only chance is his grim logic attack.

    ps. Does anyone but me see that Doom has set up the bracket to virtually garuntee himself a final two slot? Now that's what I call genius-level intellect.

    That's what I was thinking too. If it's staffed, they'll sooner go after Nimrod than Taskmaster, especially since he has an image inducer. Eventually everyone who is deployable would go after Nimrod.

    Nimrod would himself have to self-destruct because decimating the security forces of the US government would leave it weakened against a mutant uprising and being attacked by a Sentinel (even if the Sentinel was only defending itself against security forces) would probably ensure that the Sentinel program as a whole gets scrapped. Both circumvent the Days of the Future Past, at least for that particular timeline.



    Remember that Nimrod will always do whatever is most likely to destroy all mutants, even if it means losing the tourney.

    I doubt that small arms fire can hurt nimrod.

    In New-Xmen someone took a big chunk out of him with an RPG. That still counts as small arms fire.

    Mai-Kero on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Ultimately, I think Nimrod loses because there are more important things to him than winning.

    robosagogo on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    robosagogo wrote:
    Even if they don't, someone with a rocket launcher and EMP weaponry is bound to helicopter in immediately.

    I love the image of an EMP weapon mounted on a helicopter.

    "Dammit, why do all our helicopters keep crashing?!"

    It's not the EMPs, seeing as helicopters can, y'know

    kind of hover down

    Spectre-x on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Crayon wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    I'm voting against Nimrod.

    Because of Karma.

    From when he somehow beat Zoom? Without any possibility being there of that happening?

    Wha-pow, it comes right back at him so hard he ceases to exist.

    Trust me, it's science.

    Science.

    You're the bitchiest man in existence. I hope your vag bleeds for 2 weeks.

    You just can't compete with my science!

    Spectre-x on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Marathon wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    I'm voting against Nimrod.

    Because of Karma.

    From when he somehow beat Zoom? Without any possibility being there of that happening?

    Wha-pow, it comes right back at him so hard he ceases to exist.

    Trust me, it's science.

    Science.

    It's good to know you're not bitter. It would be a bit sad to carry a grudge like that for the better part of two months. Im proud to see your above that sort of childish behavior.

    You've been sniping at him nearly every time he posts, so that's a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black, isn't it?

    If he would post something other than snarky, whiny little comments every time he has anything to say it might actually be easier to debate with him. As it stands about a third of his posts have any sort of substance. The rest is just bitching and moaning over how Zoom lost or some other sort of complaint that wont ever change no matter how hard he rails against the systetm.

    Sure I snipe at him, but he has been doing it far longer and to many more people. So while you call it the pot calling the kettle black, I consider it more an example of Karma with which he is suddenly now so interested in.

    Marathon on
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    ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2007
    you mean science which he is now so suddenly interested in


    [spoiler:d39167c54b]science, in which he is now so interested[/spoiler:d39167c54b]

    Servo on
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    JCMJCM Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    What? Taskmaster winning?

    Wait, Taskmaster defeated Iron Man? Thats the arguement?

    Juggernaut has defeated the entire X-Men, has faced the whole avengers and fought Hulk, and still got bitchslapped by Nimrod.

    Nimrod also, according to wiki
    faced the combined forces of the X-Men and the Hellfire Club. Nimrod proved himself a powerful threat, killing Black Rook Friedrich Von Roehm, causing Harry Leland's fatal heart attack, nearly killing Nightcrawler, and badly injuring Rogue and Sebastian Shaw.

    Sebastian Shaw, aint he the guy who gets stronger as you punch him? Rogue got beaten too? Now Taskmaster? Nimrod would eat him for his robotic lunch

    Really, the Taskmaster has as much chance of beating Nimrod as Bambi has of defeating Godzilla

    JCM on
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    Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Have you ever had a baby deer kick you?

    Clearly not.

    Caveman Paws on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Nimrod didn't even beat Juggernaut. He incapacitated him with a sound, and even that shouldn't have worked.

    And there are ways to beat people other than brute force. If it was just a matter of "Who's strongest?", we could have just had a poll.

    robosagogo on
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    ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2007
    right right, this nuke that taskmaster could set off and then...survive because...immune...to...


    explosions?

    Servo on
    newsigs.jpg
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I'm now arguing that Taskmaster only has to make it so the goal of winning the tournament becomes overridden by the primary objective of eliminating all the mutants.

    That or the paradox thing.

    robosagogo on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2007
    This is the most recent Nimrod, who did get beaten by a paradox.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2007
    After gathering information about our timeline, Nimrod eventually changed his prime directive from the extermination of all mutants, having determined that such widespread destruction was not necessary in this era.

    Servo on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Servo wrote:
    After gathering information about our timeline, Nimrod eventually changed his prime directive from the extermination of all mutants, having determined that such widespread destruction was not necessary in this era.

    change it to "eliminating outlaw mutants like the X-Men", then.

    When did Nimrod get beaten by a paradox? If it's happened before, then his odds have dropped significantly.

    robosagogo on
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    ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2007
    he can change it himself, is the point

    he's really pretty unlikely to suddenly start listening to taskmaster's pleas that mutants should be slaughtered before him in this deathmatch contest that they've been in for some time now


    i mean nimrod used to have a human cover identity. he's perfectly capable of rational decision-making

    Servo on
    newsigs.jpg
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Servo wrote:
    he can change it himself, is the point

    he's really pretty unlikely to suddenly start listening to taskmaster's pleas that mutants should be slaughtered before him in this deathmatch contest that they've been in for some time now


    i mean nimrod used to have a human cover identity. he's perfectly capable of rational decision-making

    But he only changed his primary objective when it made sense too. If it makes sense for him to kill himself, he'll do it without hesitation. Sentinels kill themselves all the time when it makes sense to. They have no instinct for self-preservation.

    Like I said, the government is going to attack Nimrod simply for being on the base. Faced with killing them and effectively preventing the Sentinel program from ever reaching the point where Nimrods can be made and simply letting them off him or even offing himself, he'll opt for the latter because it furthers the goal he chose for himself.

    Faced with killing Taskmaster or letting him live to be a proponent of mutant registration, which he would be very good at since he has the potential to be the most influential and powerful leader of all time and overshadow anything Nimrod could do, he'd let Taskmaster live. Taskmaster might not seriously do that, but if he can mimic a person's voice well enough to fool voice recognition then he can feign sincerity just as well.

    And, of course, the paradox thing.



    None of these are really copouts but are instead somewhat crafty attempts to capitalize on the weaknesses inherent in being a fucking robot, much like using magic against Superman or putting the Hulk in a spelling bee capitalizes on their own respective, inherent vulnerabilities.

    robosagogo on
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    RonnieWooWoo!RonnieWooWoo! Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I think the best Taskmaster can do here is a double KO if he somehow manages to not only find, but is able to detonate, a nuclear weapon. Which is pretty damn unlikely anyway.

    RonnieWooWoo! on
    Woo!
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    The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Spectre-x wrote:
    I'm voting against Nimrod.

    Because of Karma.

    From when he somehow beat Zoom? Without any possibility being there of that happening?

    Wha-pow, it comes right back at him so hard he ceases to exist.

    Trust me, it's science.

    Science.

    See. Spectre and I disagree massively like last round.

    Then, this round?

    I'm all with him. Albeit for different reasons. But still.

    Fuck Nimrod.

    The Muffin Man on
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    DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    There is no way that Taskmaster can take down Nimrod physically. Paradox, possible. Nimrod just not being able to kill Taskmaster to further his mutant agenda is possible. But the nuke scenarios just aren't fathomable.

    DasUberEdward on
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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I really think that his only hope is that energy projection thingie. I mean, it only takes one burst of super speed and some fake wolvie claws to the face to win this thing.

    I think Nimrod will probably win. The slim chance Taskmaster has isn't in some crazy looped logic, but a ballsy first move that ends the match instantly. If he misses that shot he's done for.

    Langly on
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    Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    If Nimrod really can't attack humans then Taskmaster walks away with the win. But I doubt that DOOM will allow it to be that easy, so I assume that Nimrod will attempt to take Tasky out. That being said there is a very slim chance TM can pull off a win here.

    Then there is the "fuck Nimrod" movment that I feel has a very good point.

    I'm torn.

    Caveman Paws on
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    MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Langly wrote:
    I really think that his only hope is that energy projection thingie. I mean, it only takes one burst of super speed and some fake wolvie claws to the face to win this thing.

    I think Nimrod will probably win. The slim chance Taskmaster has isn't in some crazy looped logic, but a ballsy first move that ends the match instantly. If he misses that shot he's done for.

    Double speed does not mean he moves at mach 5. A normal human is not that fast. Nimrod HAS to be faster by now (all the adapting).

    Also, I am sorry, I hate this Taskmaster double speed shit. How are you both a "normal human" and you can move twice as fast as a human? That sounds like a metahuman power to me...perhaps even a mutant ability ;)

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I think the double speed thing doesn't count as a mutant power because it hurts him physically when he does it. He can't do it long or his heart will give out. The drawback disqualifies it as a mutant power..maybe.

    Marathon on
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    MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Marathon wrote:
    I think the double speed thing doesn't count as a mutant power because it hurts him physically when he does it. He can't do it long or his heart will give out. The drawback disqualifies it as a mutant power..maybe.

    Guido (Strong Guy fron Xfactor) had a heart attack because his body couldn't handle his mutant power (absorbing Kinetic Energy).

    Come to think of it...does anyone else have Photographic Reflexes? If not that would make it an abnormal ability...you know, a mutation ;)

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    JCMJCM Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    There is no way that Taskmaster can take down Nimrod physically. Paradox, possible. Nimrod just not being able to kill Taskmaster to further his mutant agenda is possible. But the nuke scenarios just aren't fathomable.

    Ive noticed no scenarios here are plausible.

    -Taskmaster activates nukes then runs to bunker!!! Why would Nimrod not follow him?

    -Taskmaster commits suicide and blows himself up!! Nimrod teleports away. :wink:

    -Paradox babble! That was Cable, like one of the most powerful telepaths, from the future, who knew everything on Nimrod and the whole future thing, and used the paradox thingy.

    -Taskmaster would confuse Nimrod! Best hardware from the future, super-computer and all. I´d say Nimrod can outsmart Taskmaster (but not Cable :wink: )

    -Chi/Kung-fu/skillz!! Nimrod would bitchslap him. Like he bitchslapped the ENTIRE Xmen and Hellfire Club, and the Avengers, and Juggernaut. And he regenerates.

    And the Paradox thing, are we really thinking that Taskmaster would know everything that Cable knows? Taskmaster is no match for Cable, and even Cable couldnt defeat Nimrod physically.

    JCM on
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    MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    JCM wrote:
    There is no way that Taskmaster can take down Nimrod physically. Paradox, possible. Nimrod just not being able to kill Taskmaster to further his mutant agenda is possible. But the nuke scenarios just aren't fathomable.

    Ive noticed no scenarios here are plausible.

    -Taskmaster activates nukes then runs to bunker!!! Why would Nimrod not follow him?

    -Taskmaster commits suicide and blows himself up!! Nimrod teleports away. :wink:

    -Paradox babble! That was Cable, like one of the most powerful telepaths, from the future, who knew everything on Nimrod and the whole future thing, and used the paradox thingy.

    -Taskmaster would confuse Nimrod! Best hardware from the future, super-computer and all. I´d say he can outsmart Taskmaster

    -Chi/Kung-fu/skillz!! Nimrod would bitchslap him.

    And the Paradox thing, are we really thinking that Taskmaster would know everything that Cable knows?

    Sure, he watched a video of Cable...as people around here seem to point out, that means Taskmaster is now just like him :roll:

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    NogsNogs Crap, crap, mega crap. Crap, crap, mega crap.Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Monkeydrye wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    I think the double speed thing doesn't count as a mutant power because it hurts him physically when he does it. He can't do it long or his heart will give out. The drawback disqualifies it as a mutant power..maybe.

    Guido (Strong Guy fron Xfactor) had a heart attack because his body couldn't handle his mutant power (absorbing Kinetic Energy).

    Come to think of it...does anyone else have Photographic Reflexes? If not that would make it an abnormal ability...you know, a mutation ;)

    Doesn't Echo have Photographic Reflexes? Only, she's...you know..deaf.

    Nogs on
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    JCMJCM Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    He can copy actions, NOT know everything someone knows, as also said earlier in this thread-
    " This ability enables him to watch another person's physical movements and duplicate them without practice as long as it is physically possible for an ordinary human to accomplish.

    Nothing on him sucking the knowledge off Cable, and I dont remember Candid Camera recording Cable´s talk with Nimrod for Taskmaster to TIVO for reference.

    Taskmaster doesnt know anything about Nimrod´s future, for him to know the whole logic thing would require fiction worthy of making it seem plausible that Bambi can defeat Godzilla.

    As much as Nimrod sucks as a character, Taskmaster looses.

    Bomb? Nimrod can detect weapons around, and will easily teleport.
    One-to-one? Wolverine lost together with the Xmen against Nimrod, who defeated the Avengers and the Hellfireclub and Juggy too. Taskmaster cant win.
    Weapons? Nimrod can teleport, adapt and regenerate, and blow TM apart.

    There´s no plausible way that Taskmaster would win.

    JCM on
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    MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Oh, I agree. I think people here equate "watching someone fight" as "do everything they do". Again, just because you know how to move like someone, doesn't mean you have their knowledge, wisdom, or experience.

    I think it would be cool for him to fight someone who is say, Double Jointed. And they do all these moves that he can't bend right to do, so when he tries to copy them he hurts himself ;)

    BTW, Nimrod wins.

    And for those voting against Nimrod because they hate him, SHUT UP. I hate him too. I wanted his lame ass to lose back when we was fighting people that could actually beat him. Now he is fighting someone whose ass he should own...so guess what, he does.

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Monkeydrye wrote:
    I think it would be cool for him to fight someone who is say, Double Jointed. And they do all these moves that he can't bend right to do, so when he tries to copy them he hurts himself ;)

    I think it would be funny to watch him fight Mr. Fantastic.

    Marathon on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Listen guy, a logical paradox is still a fucking logical paradox. It doesn't matter where you come from.

    Spectre-x on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    How would a logical paradox work in a fight like this?

    Is Taskmaster going to get a chance to say "Just hold on there Nimrod, I got a quick question for you." He could, but then he's going to get a face full of lazer.

    Marathon on
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    MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Listen guy, a logical paradox is still a fucking logical paradox. It doesn't matter where you come from.

    It's also lame. If it always worked, all robots would get beat in 5 seconds. Ultron would not be a threat, Doombots would be easy to find and beat, Vision would get blown up 10x more than he already does.

    I mean, come on...in the future, how hard would it be to code some lines that say "If someone says a statement that makes your circuits hurt, delete that statement from memory and ignore that statement in the future".

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    JCMJCM Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Listen guy, a logical paradox is still a fucking logical paradox. It doesn't matter where you come from.

    Nope-


    Wiki-
    It deactivated itself when Cable convinced it that its existence could cause a paradox and damage the timestream.

    Now, does Taskmaster know squat about timestreams at all? I said, the logical paradox worked because Cable knew exatcly what to tell Nimrod, because he knew Nimord, knew Nimrod´s future and knew what wuold cause Nimrod to give up.

    Taskmaters knows nothing of that. Taskmaster looses.

    Oh and-

    Like present-day Sentinels, Nimrod can draw upon devices and systems within his robotic body in order to cope with or neutralize an opponent's superhuman power once he has determined the nature of that power.

    And we´ve already estalblished that his scanners do that fast 2 pages back.

    EDIT: Another take on Cabel´s Arguement-
    Later on, a copy of Nimrod's program that he had downloaded into the government's intranet reconstructed himself when scientists developed advanced enough circuitry, but was convinced by Cable that his presence in our time would destroy more humans than if he was created in the future, causing his mission to fail, whereupon the Nimrod copy deactivated himself.

    And the best?

    The original Nimrod (along with Master Mold) has since returned in the form of Bastion, granted to him by the Siege Perilous.

    The original Nimrod is back. No arguements will work on this one. :wink:

    JCM on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007

    Nope-


    Wiki-
    It deactivated itself when Cable convinced it that its existence could cause a paradox and damage the timestream.

    Now, does Taskmaster know squat about timestreams at all? I said, the logical paradox worked because Cable knew exatcly what to tell Nimrod, because he knew Nimord, knew Nimrod´s future and knew what wuold cause Nimrod to give up.

    Taskmaters knows nothing of that. Taskmaster looses.

    Oh and

    Like present-day Sentinels, Nimrod can draw upon devices and systems within his robotic body in order to cope with or neutralize an opponent's superhuman power once he has determined the nature of that power.

    And we´ve already estalblished that his scanners do that fast 2 pages back.

    1. Everyone who's watched tv knows you can beat robots with paradoxes. You don't need to be from the future like Cable.

    2. Taskmaster doesn't have powers. If Nimrod scans him for them under the assumption that he does, after seeing T move and coming to that conclusion, he'll spend forever scanning him and never stop.

    robosagogo on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    But knowing nothing about Nimrod and his origin how would Taskmaster create a paradox that would be effective?

    Also, my previous question. How would he ask him that question without being killed before he could finish the sentence?

    Marathon on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Marathon wrote:
    But knowing nothing about Nimrod and his origin how would Taskmaster create a paradox that would be effective?

    Also, my previous question. How would he ask him that question without being killed before he could finish the sentence?

    It could be any paradox, rather being restricted to that specific one. Then again, all Taskmaster needs to know is that Nimrod is a robot from the future (which he clearly is). Time travel paradoxes are common knowledge.

    And Nimrod doesn't have selective hearing. Robots wouldn't need that. Taskmaster could just say it as he dodges, and Nimrod would be forced to hear and process the information. But you can't process a paradoxical statement, so he dies.

    robosagogo on
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    JCMJCM Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Wait, so the top computer from the future cant scan fast? :roll:
    He scans for powers and abilities. Unless the Taskmaster´s power are magical, Nimrod will have it classified in a bink, and know how to neutralize/counteract it.

    And the Nimrod that as defeated was one that had built itself, not the original one which is back. Taskmaster knows squat about Nimrod´s time to arguement anything.

    Taskmaster looses.

    And badly.

    All sources back it up.

    http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/n/nimrodii.htm
    http://www.mutanthigh.com/nimrod.html
    It could be any paradox, rather being restricted to that specific one

    Nope

    Why are you using the word paradox? Cable convinced Nimrod (a self-built modern-day one that is long gone) using his knowledge of that Nimrod´s creation (which he oversaw) that his exsitence NOW in the PRESENT could cause a time paradox (which Cbale knows how to explain)

    Taskmaster is stuck with facing the Original Nimrod which is back, and knows nothing of his creation, nor anything about the timestream enough to ebat a Super-computer.

    Game over.

    JCM on
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    PbPb Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    robosagogo wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    But knowing nothing about Nimrod and his origin how would Taskmaster create a paradox that would be effective?

    Also, my previous question. How would he ask him that question without being killed before he could finish the sentence?

    It could be any paradox, rather being restricted to that specific one. Then again, all Taskmaster needs to know is that Nimrod is a robot from the future (which he clearly is). Time travel paradoxes are common knowledge.

    He did not lose to a random paradox, he lost to one that specifically dealt with his primary programming and mission.

    Pb on
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