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DaemonionDaemonion Mountain ManUSARegistered User regular
edited July 2014 in Help / Advice Forum
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Daemonion on

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    T. J. Nutty Nub T. J. Nutty Nub Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I have no real experience here, but I would treat yourself as if you were sick

    start off with some soups and toast and try to work your way from there

    T. J. Nutty Nub on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    In the future, keep in mind that doing that is really awful for you. Like, stunningly, fantastically fucking awful. You increased your likelihood of getting a water- or food-borne illness if you were exposed to one considerably.

    If you're really having trouble keeping anything down, make a pot of brown rice, then give the rice to someone else and drink the water; that's about the most simple thing you can get, and most likely to keep down. Try some fruit or beans, maybe see if you can handle some clear soda like 7Up, Sprite, or Squirt.

    Thanatos on
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    FatsFats Corvallis, ORRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Daemonion wrote: »
    I'll also be seeing a doctor soon to get tested for water-borne illnesses and the like.

    This might be a factor in your diarrhea, depending on your water sources. Nothing to be done about that until you see the doctor, though. The swollen ankles may be what they call nutritional edema, which is caused by protein deficiency, or they may just be the result of trekking around for a month and then suddenly stopping. Nothing to be too concerned about, either way, assuming the swelling goes down.

    I second the small, bland meals, like you were sick. Maybe an old folk's drink, like Ensure, but the sugar might set your stomach off. Yogurt might be helpful. Until you can keep down vegetables, you might consider a vitamin supplement to rebuild your water-soluble vitamin levels.

    Fats on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Fats wrote: »
    I second the small, bland meals, like you were sick. Maybe an old folk's drink, like Ensure, but the sugar might set your stomach off. Yogurt might be helpful. Until you can keep down vegetables, you might consider a vitamin supplement to rebuild your water-soluble vitamin levels.
    I was just coming in here to edit in a suggestion for something like Ensure or a multi-vitamin.

    Thanatos on
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    ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    In the future, keep in mind that doing that is really awful for you. Like, stunningly, fantastically fucking awful. You increased your likelihood of getting a water- or food-borne illness if you were exposed to one considerably.

    Pretty sure that was the point. It's a survival course, not a live outside course.

    When you eat under 1,000 calories or so a day, you're body enters starvation mode and starts utilizing nutrients differently. Also, your stomach shrank (milk expands in your body, so a small stomach + plus expanding milk in a milkshake = vomit). Gastrointestinal distress seems to be normal when your diet changes dramatically, but I can't say I know how it reacts under extreme conditions.

    You're very likely suffering from nutrition deficiencies of some kind (protein, iron, etc.). Honestly I'd set up an appointment with a doctor or nutritionist and see what you need to do.

    Zombiemambo on
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Fats wrote: »
    I second the small, bland meals, like you were sick. Maybe an old folk's drink, like Ensure, but the sugar might set your stomach off. Yogurt might be helpful. Until you can keep down vegetables, you might consider a vitamin supplement to rebuild your water-soluble vitamin levels.
    I was just coming in here to edit in a suggestion for something like Ensure or a multi-vitamin.

    Ewwww nooo no no no.

    The Ensure is going to make him sick. It's too calorie dense.

    Ensure is intended to pack a large amount of nutrition into a small amount of liquid to assist those who need extra nutrients but have a weak appetite due to age or illness. It's not something that should be used by someone who is recovering from starvation.

    My suggestion is to avoid dairy and red meat, neither of which is particularly easy to digest. I would try to eat fruit and some poultry. Tomatoes and bananas, if you can keep them down, would be very good. Definitely see a doctor.

    I just told you to avoid dairy, and now I'm going to tell you to try yogurt because it might help get your guts back in order. Yogurt has less lactose than the milkshake you threw up, so if you pick one that isn't too sugary and don't go overboard, you should be alright.

    The helpful intestinal bacteria found in yogurt can also be had in pill form in case you can't eat the yogurt.

    Regina Fong on
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    Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited July 2010
    I can't say I have much to contribute since I'm not a survivalist or a doctor, but I'm really surprised that the course apparently didn't give you any information on how to handle this, since it must happen to pretty much everyone that takes the course or goes through a survival-type situation. It seems somewhat irresponsible of whoever ran it to not mention it at all, not even just, 'now don't go straight out to Carl's Jr. like an idiot.'

    You might try getting in contact with whoever ran it and asking their advice, and/or suggesting adding coverage of post-survival situation dietary advice to the curriculum.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
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    DaemonionDaemonion Mountain Man USARegistered User regular
    edited July 2014
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    Daemonion on
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Daemonion wrote: »
    As things get better, and as per what a doc says after a check-up, I'm assuming the way to get meat and milk and whatnot back into my diet is to start with one bite, one day at a time?

    Yes, this goes for anything that you used to eat but are now having trouble keeping down: small amounts at first, and work up slowly.

    Regina Fong on
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    Brodo FagginsBrodo Faggins Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Rice porridge, particularly the Korean kind (jook). If you live anywhere near a Koreatown, there are restaurants dedicated to it. Basically, steamed rice boild in water until it has the consistency of glue, and with some veggies added.

    Chicken noodle soup, fresh, not the canned kind.

    Fruits, shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as you don't overdo it.

    Basically, treat it like you're coming off food poisoning.

    Brodo Faggins on
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    The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Lentils, soup & rice, like everyone has already suggested, are what you want to feed yourself with right away. And yes, make sure you go and get checked-out for infection.


    ...Uh. Just out of curiosity, what is the purpose of a 'survival course'? Just recreation?

    The Ender on
    With Love and Courage
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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I can't say I have much to contribute since I'm not a survivalist or a doctor, but I'm really surprised that the course apparently didn't give you any information on how to handle this, since it must happen to pretty much everyone that takes the course or goes through a survival-type situation. It seems somewhat irresponsible of whoever ran it to not mention it at all, not even just, 'now don't go straight out to Carl's Jr. like an idiot.'

    You might try getting in contact with whoever ran it and asking their advice, and/or suggesting adding coverage of post-survival situation dietary advice to the curriculum.

    Definitely do this, because it seems damned near criminally negligent to be operating this kind of survival course and not provide some literature telling people how to reacclimate their bodies to a real diet.

    Like Ender, I'd also like to know the purpose of this outing. I just can't imagine that forced marches on starvation level rations are high on anyones bucket list...

    see317 on
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    ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited July 2010
    I have some experience with working my way back up to a normal diet, and I think probably one of the biggest things you can do, aside from carefully choosing what you eat, is to take small bites and chew very, very carefully. VERY carefully. It makes pretty much everything at least a little easier to digest, and gives your body time to adjust to the fact that you are getting ready to cram food into it.

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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    DaemonionDaemonion Mountain Man USARegistered User regular
    edited July 2014
    [edit]

    Daemonion on
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    ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited July 2010
    I know someone who did iBike in several different countries (Mali, for example) for similar reasons, and she described the appeal of those challenges. I can't say I haven't thought about it, and someday I would really like to do at least one such trip just for the experience, but also to prove to myself that I can.

    While I doubt I'd attempt the exact sort of thing you did, I'd love to hear about your experiences with it.

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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    November FifthNovember Fifth Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    BRAT(TY) & CRAM

    Bananas
    Rice
    Applesauce
    Toast
    +
    Tea
    Yogurt

    Cereal
    Rice
    Applesauce
    Milk

    November Fifth on
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    TrillianTrillian Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Nonfat sour cream can ride out even the worst gastric storm.
    Try that.

    Trillian on

    They cast a shadow like a sundial in the morning light. It was half past 10.
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    TrillianTrillian Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Also swollen ankles? Yeesh!
    You need electrolytes and quicklike.
    Get some gatorate, or mix up a pinch of sugar and salt in a glass of water, and drink it often, and stay moving around. Fluid building up in your ankles is a bad thing, because it means either your blood is too watery or your heart is giving out, but by the sounds of things you're probably sodium deficient.

    Trillian on

    They cast a shadow like a sundial in the morning light. It was half past 10.
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    DaemonionDaemonion Mountain Man USARegistered User regular
    edited July 2014
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    Daemonion on
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    TrillianTrillian Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Daemonion wrote: »
    Applesauce, nice.

    Any recommendations on particular types of teas? Also, should I BRAT(TY) for a bit and then CRAM? I ask only because of the milk, as others have put me under the impression that milk is a late-game addition.

    Is having all the sugar in Gatorade alright, or should I use Emergen-C, rehydration salts, etc instead?

    Yep, glucose is the only fuel that feeds your brain, and that eats up a lot of power.
    If you're worried, cut it half/half with water for the first bit. It's only clear fluid.

    It was probably the fat in the milkshake that made you hurl as fat causes increased stomach activity and enzyme production that you would not at all be accustomed to right now. Try skim milk if you're not otherwise lactose intolerant, or stay off it for awhile, since there's no rule that says you'd have any enzymes to deal with the lactose right now after so much energy conservation and starvation.

    Trillian on

    They cast a shadow like a sundial in the morning light. It was half past 10.
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    If you get a chance to post an update so we know you are doing OK that would be swell. Let us know how it's going, please.

    Regina Fong on
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    DekuStickDekuStick Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Outdoor courses (from how to start a fire to survival) really aren't just recreational and there are good reasons to take one. Hunters and campers go missing pretty often. Without the skills to get your ass out of there, well you're pretty screwed. A plane you're on could crash in a deep forest and granted you survive, who knows for how long. Shit happens. If you're just a city dweller and don't get out in the nature, well you're missing out on a lot and really should get out there. But remember there's no such thing as too prepared.

    I know that Daemonion is a big outdoors guy and this course will serve him well and any one else he may have with him when things go bad. This is like having your CPR certificate, it helps yourself and the others around you. Good on you for taking the 28 day course Dae, hope you're munchin' full meals soon.

    DekuStick on
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    DaemonionDaemonion Mountain Man USARegistered User regular
    edited July 2014
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    Daemonion on
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Daemonion wrote: »
    I've started putting updates in the OP for those interested.

    I'm excited that I'm keeping this food down so far ...maybe I'll start on some yogurt tomorrow after I get my results back from the lab. Still, I can only laugh at the irony of spending 28 days fantasizing about all this delicious food and, now that it is finally within reach, not being able to have any! Still, I'm super grateful I don't have to start fires and whatnot and have all this awesome nutrition available to me. Walking into a grocery store was pretty sensational.


    Ceres, I'd love to shoot you a PM later today and share some of my experience with you :)


    So, I don't want to jump the gun here, but if I end up having a parasite friend living in my gut and have to take antibiotics, won't that put my body into another kind of shock and make this process much more difficult and/or prolonged (or is that hard to determine and this point)?

    I don't believe parasitic infections are treated with antibiotics, but I'm certainly no doctor. I think antibiotics are just for bacterial infections. I do remember reading an article by a guy who had a tapeworm, and the treatment was just a single dose of medication that killed the parasite, and the rest of the article dealt with the gross but hilarious aftermath of getting the tapeworm corpse out of his pooper.

    Regina Fong on
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    GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Daemonion wrote: »
    As far as motivation for joining the course goes, I had several reasons. First, I was interested in learning the primitive skills that they taught on the course just because I think that kind of stuff is cool. Second, the prospect of attending such an immersive and physically challenging course was attractive to me (which also turned out to include great mental and emotional challenges), and I love the sense of fulfillment after finishing things like this and the things a learn about myself and whatever else comes along. If I took just the 7 or 14 day course I would have always thought about the 28 day course - and it wouldn't have had the same impact if it wasn't the hardest one I could find. Lastly, I was tired of always wondering what it'd be like to experience a survival situation or to just live in the woods with little to nothing for an extended period, so I let my curiosity lead me to this course.

    All in all, this was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, but I'm so happy I did it - not just to know what I'm physically capable of and to now be much more able to take care of myself in the wilderness, but also for the new perspectives. If anyone would be interested in hearing more I'd love for you to PM me about it.
    Dude. We'll even pay for your college.

    Anyway, stick to simple foods like fruits and nuts. Be careful before you jump to complex carbs or eat too much ruffage. With the ruffage, you don't have anything for it to clean out, so it will be rather uncomfortable. Complex carbs will also send your stomach on a bender. When you want to break into it, go for something like brown rice or rice noodles at first. Those go down easy and rice noodles are great with broth. Beans and nuts should be able to give you plenty of protein. Just chew everything well.
    Daemonion wrote: »
    So, I don't want to jump the gun here, but if I end up having a parasite friend living in my gut and have to take antibiotics, won't that put my body into another kind of shock and make this process much more difficult and/or prolonged (or is that hard to determine and this point)?
    Anti-parasitics are a different class than antibiotics, but you'll have to take it with a full stomach just like with antibiotics, or it will throw you for a loop. It's less of a "too harsh for your stomach lining" situation so much as something like Albendazole fools with glucose absorbtion. That kills the bugs, but it also can make you dizzy, have a headache, and give you blurred vision.

    However, if you put iodine drops in your canteen after you collected the water, you may well be fine. If you didn't... well, shame on you.

    GungHo on
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    DaemonionDaemonion Mountain Man USARegistered User regular
    edited July 2014
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    Daemonion on
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    DaemonionDaemonion Mountain Man USARegistered User regular
    edited July 2014
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