I will agree that Abel can not be zoned easily. Especially if he has meter, he gains multiple methods to close the distance.
He also has good anti-airs, with and without meter. The main thing is to know that everything he has is situational, for example he has like 5 AA's, but the correct one must be used in each scenario.
Keeping him at an awkward range is probably your best bet for zoning.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
I would even contend Abel's footsies arent that bad. His step kick can lead to combos that do 30% of your life bar routinely. The range might not be all that great but the punishment potential is amazing. It can shut down good poking characters terrified of a step kick counter hit.
I'm not a great Abel. Probably not even a good Abel but a lot of his mixups feel like auto pilot. Plus his step kick footsie turns into a combo on hit or mixup on block. He has only cancel-able sweep in the game for more mixups. I used to think there was a really high execution barrier for his combos, but it's not very hard to do compared to other charcters including step kick and fadc rekka.
In my viewpoints, you are always in a positive risk reward when you mixup with Abel and he has very effective tools to put him in that position.
I would even contend Abel's footsies arent that bad. His step kick can lead to combos that do 30% of your life bar routinely. The range might not be all that great but the punishment potential is amazing. It can shut down good poking characters terrified of a step kick counter hit.
I'm not a great Abel. Probably not even a good Abel but a lot of his mixups feel like auto pilot. Plus his step kick footsie turns into a combo on hit or mixup on block. He has only cancel-able sweep in the game for more mixups. I used to think there was a really high execution barrier for his combos, but it's not very hard to do compared to other charcters including step kick and fadc rekka.
In my viewpoints, you are always in a positive risk reward when you mixup with Abel and he has very effective tools to put him in that position.
Sorry Sol, I'll have to disagree here. Off a blocked stepkick, you want to get out of 80% of his mixup? Backdash. It avoids TT, regular throw, tick throw, blockstring, or anything else really. To punish BD after stepkick, you have to guess that they will BD. Again, guess.
A player that knows the Abel matchup will exploit that in most mixups, there is a gaping hole that leads to painful damage for Abel. Abel can NOT cover every escape option without exposing himself to eating a ton of damage himself if he guesses wrong.
So yeah, there is no way in hell it's always positive risk/reward.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
I would even contend Abel's footsies arent that bad. His step kick can lead to combos that do 30% of your life bar routinely. The range might not be all that great but the punishment potential is amazing. It can shut down good poking characters terrified of a step kick counter hit.
I'm not a great Abel. Probably not even a good Abel but a lot of his mixups feel like auto pilot. Plus his step kick footsie turns into a combo on hit or mixup on block. He has only cancel-able sweep in the game for more mixups. I used to think there was a really high execution barrier for his combos, but it's not very hard to do compared to other charcters including step kick and fadc rekka.
In my viewpoints, you are always in a positive risk reward when you mixup with Abel and he has very effective tools to put him in that position.
Regarding mixups as autopilot, that's true until your opponent learns to backdash after a blocked step kick. Granted, it doesn't work as well for every character, but in general backdashing after a blocked step kick really kills Abels options, and forces him to pick from ones that are not in his favor. The things that beat backdash (sweep, COD, wheel kick, dash TT) all require huge risks that lose to pretty much anything an opponent would do besides backdash. When you couple this with invincible reversal moves and 3 frame jabs, a blocked step kick is really not that much of a threat to someone playing smart. For instance, did you know that a 3 frame normal will beat all of Abel's options after a blocked step kick except for normal throw and EX TT? Hell, a normal throw beats everything Abel can do off of a blocked step kick except TT.
Basically, it isn't as rosy as you make it out to be. Still an amazing mixup character though.
I wish I had the balls to use Fei Long's U2 to catch crouch teching.
You know what I hate about Fei Long? The fact that if you use U1 on a cornered opponent then they won't be cornered at the end of the ultra. I mean, it just seems completely uncalled for.
Chun's U1 juggle can be the same way (depends on which corner/height) -_-
RE Abel and step kick: Even though it has 'counters' the advantage is clearly in Abel's favor. +1 after the dash, bigger damage if he guesses right, and (unless your opponent goes balls out random with an ultra or something) you aren't going to eat anything huge.
It reminds me a lot of Ken's ex tatsu except Abel has *far* superior mixups after, doesn't require EX meter to do it, and (on some of the cast anyway) doesn't require them to be standing or land a cr.hp to make them stand.
(EDIT) also, fei long's antique controller motions is the worst design decision ever. On that note, anyone else really hate how it's called the "tiger knee motion" when Sagat's tiger knee no longer uses that fucking motion?
Chun's U1 juggle can be the same way (depends on which corner/height) -_-
RE Abel and step kick: Even though it has 'counters' the advantage is clearly in Abel's favor. +1 after the dash, bigger damage if he guesses right, and (unless your opponent goes balls out random with an ultra or something) you aren't going to eat anything huge.
It reminds me a lot of Ken's ex tatsu except Abel has *far* superior mixups after, doesn't require EX meter to do it, and (on some of the cast anyway) doesn't require them to be standing or land a cr.hp to make them stand.
(EDIT) also, fei long's antique controller motions is the worst design decision ever. On that note, anyone else really hate how it's called the "tiger knee motion" when Sagat's tiger knee no longer uses that fucking motion?
I still maintain that backdashing gets you out of every good option that he has off of a blocked step kick, and that his other options leave him wide open to eating huge damage.
Take Ken and Balrog for instance. They block a step kick and then can use a 3 frame normal that can hit confirm into ultra. Honda gets EX Headbutt and EX splash. Ryu, jab into shoryu into ultra. Pretty much every character that I can think off has really good ways to do damage if they have meter and block a step kick. If they have been backdashing and force the Abel to account for that, his mixups are extremely diminished. +1 is not a huge advantage when your quickest normal is 4 frames of activation.
Internet ate my post, so I'll just state that I agree with Boceifus on this. If you play someone legitimately good that knows the Abel matchup well, all of a sudden, his mixups don't seem that great.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Backdashing out of abel's step kick is like backdashing out of bison's scissor loop or meaty mk xx scissors - it forces them to put a whole new array of options in the front of their mind. It makes that attack method much less impressive.
However, getting the timing down for backdashing out of safe pressure like that is tricky and easy to screw up in the heat of battle.
Hell, from the latest tier list most of the A tier doesn't land their ultra much: Guile, Akuma, Dictator, Cammy, E. Honda.
Guile's U2 is fantastic. It's comboable, it's a zoning tool, and it's guaranteed chip after a knockdown for much of the cast. Cammy also gets her ultra off in a combo fairly often.
Wow. Just wow a lot of misunderstanding about Able and math it seems. Hiryu and Boceifus have said it already but people seem to still be confused. After blocked step kick in many matches Able is at a disadvantage
What to do when you block Able's step kick
-BD
Beats: All remotely smart options. TT, EX TT, Block, Grab, footsie. Even small backdashes work fine here and in a way are more dangerous. Cody for example can BD and he is still close enough to punish with a cMP, Hk Ruffian FADC U1
Looses: Guess specials and ultras. But usually if the Able is doing this either they are really desperate or the opp is really easy to read.
Jump Back:
Beats: All remotely smart options. Basically the same things as above. Depending on whos jump it also beats certain strengths of guess COD and Wheel Kick.
Looses to: Guess specials of the correct strength and guess ultras. Or guess jump forward + FP. Same thing here though. Either the Able is desperate or the opp is mad easy to read
SRK:
Beats: Every damn thing when done right basically. Especially if it is a three frame. If its four or higher its not as easy but it still works for SRKs that have any kind of invulnerability. It will beat all pokes, all specials and if done as a reversal will beat breathless too since reversals armor break. And in some cases will go over you if you guess Soulless letting them punish your recovery
Looses: To block and guess super and maybe, have to test, EX roll if the SRK is 4 frames or slower.
Reg Grab
Beats: All pokes, and specials except for one
Looses: To reg TT only. Hell even if Able N jumps most characters can whiff reg Grab and punish him on the way down
Teleport:
Beats: Most everything
Looses: Bait and punish strats. Also depending on the port depennds on how you punish.
So aside from the character specific, SRK and teleport every character in the game has three really great options after blocking step kick. BD, jump back or reg grab. And I didnt even get into stuff like EX Psycho crusher, Headbutt ect.
Also I think I saw someone say his AA wasnt great. Thats crazy. For starters he has a normal AA for basically any situation. You just have to know how to use em. And if you have meter you can use EX Falling Sky. Which nets you an untechable KD and leads to his set ups. Able's AA is better than a good chunk of the cast.
Able is good in this game but most people act like he is OP or that he has all these advantageous situations and he doesn't.
Hell, from the latest tier list most of the A tier doesn't land their ultra much: Guile, Akuma, Dictator, Cammy, E. Honda.
Guile's U2 is fantastic. It's comboable, it's a zoning tool, and it's guaranteed chip after a knockdown for much of the cast. Cammy also gets her ultra off in a combo fairly often.
Eh its not always if they can combo them. Certain ultras shut down other options which is enough. Bison's new ultra stops any kind of fireball save for maybe Guile. Demon can be used to puinsh some stuff but in general Akuma is scary because of the shear number of options he has and the dmg he can dish out. Cammy juggles into U1 just fine and despite all the hate counter Ultras work in some match ups as well. Chun is also considered 1st and she has no problem landing any of her ultras. Honda does crazy damage without landing ultra and his grab cant be jumped out of after the flash. There plenty of set ups for it and his Headbutt ultra also helps versus fireballs.
Chun's U1 juggle can be the same way (depends on which corner/height) -_-
RE Abel and step kick: Even though it has 'counters' the advantage is clearly in Abel's favor. +1 after the dash, bigger damage if he guesses right, and (unless your opponent goes balls out random with an ultra or something) you aren't going to eat anything huge.
It reminds me a lot of Ken's ex tatsu except Abel has *far* superior mixups after, doesn't require EX meter to do it, and (on some of the cast anyway) doesn't require them to be standing or land a cr.hp to make them stand.
(EDIT) also, fei long's antique controller motions is the worst design decision ever. On that note, anyone else really hate how it's called the "tiger knee motion" when Sagat's tiger knee no longer uses that fucking motion?
I still maintain that backdashing gets you out of every good option that he has off of a blocked step kick, and that his other options leave him wide open to eating huge damage.
Take Ken and Balrog for instance. They block a step kick and then can use a 3 frame normal that can hit confirm into ultra. Honda gets EX Headbutt and EX splash. Ryu, jab into shoryu into ultra. Pretty much every character that I can think off has really good ways to do damage if they have meter and block a step kick. If they have been backdashing and force the Abel to account for that, his mixups are extremely diminished. +1 is not a huge advantage when your quickest normal is 4 frames of activation.
3 frame normal loses to abel's f+mk dash -> regular throw. You're +1, throws are 3 frames startup. Anyone who's jabbing you out of a step kick is taking a gamble that you're going to do a slow normal or non-EX TT. Throws lead to more mixups.
Honda EX headbutt = Abel baits this with a short roll. Risky as fuck, but if the honda player is ex headbutting every stepkick, roll it then Ultra 1. Yes it works. EX Splash is a free anything if you bait it. CR.fp -> U1... whatever.
I'm not saying his step kick is the GOD DAMN BATMAN of Street Fighter but you're seriously discounting one of the best command normals (easily top 3, if not #1) in the game.
Bison's u2 doesn't really shut down fireballs unless you're at pretty close range or really obviously buffering.
This one dude's Bison we play does. His execution is fast as fuck though.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
3 frame normal loses to abel's f+mk dash -> regular throw. You're +1, throws are 3 frames startup. Anyone who's jabbing you out of a step kick is taking a gamble that you're going to do a slow normal or non-EX TT. Throws lead to more mixups.
Honda EX headbutt = Abel baits this with a short roll. Risky as fuck, but if the honda player is ex headbutting every stepkick, roll it then Ultra 1. Yes it works. EX Splash is a free anything if you bait it. CR.fp -> U1... whatever.
I'm not saying his step kick is the GOD DAMN BATMAN of Street Fighter but you're seriously discounting one of the best command normals (easily top 3, if not #1) in the game.[/QUOTE]
I agree step kick is a great command normal its best use if counter footsie more so than dashing after blocked step kick.
Also not to be rude but the opponents reg grab will beat any of your options after blocked step kick save for reg TT. You may be plus a frame but Able has no three frame poke. All his stuff is four frames meaning frame perfect execution has you poking at the same time they are grabbing. Which means you get grabbed because of grabs beating pokes at close range. Though if you catch them trying to tech hooray for TT. But as said above they can just jump back and avoid the guess all together.
For Honda Able has basically a 100% in his favor of attack if he lands a back throw on Honda. He can OS cross up jump in with EX roll or LK roll. EX roll beats all of Hondas options and means free ultra punish. LK roll looses to EX butt drop but allows for more punishment options if Able doesnt have ultra.
I agree step kick is a great command normal its best use if counter footsie more so than dashing after blocked step kick.
It's got a lot of uses, neither of those things are bad. Step kick confirm combos are crazy damaging but I think you guys are seriously discounting the mind game of a blocked step kick. Yeah, it's not an instant victory for Abel but no frame advantage move (ken's ex tatsu, chun's SBK, etc) are. There's a mixup where your opponent can guess right and escape it, or even reversal you and punish. The thing is, guessing wrong against Abel *HURTS LIKE A BITCH*. Guessing wrong against Ken or Chun Li? Maybe a 200-250 damage combo at best (more if ultra/FADC is used).
Also not to be rude but the opponents reg grab will beat any of your options after blocked step kick save for reg TT.
I don't like your use of the word 'beat'. Beat implies that you take the advantage away from Abel. Abel can tech the grab or go for his own throw. Now you're both neutral, nothing really gained or lost. Abel can jump/dash back your throw attempt. Nothing gained, nothing lost. If Abel is constantly trying to follow up step kicks with normals, throwing makes sense. But it's a gamble like anything else. How sure are you that he's not going to TT? The worst thing in the world is getting untechable knockdown by Abel.
You may be plus a frame but Able has no three frame poke.
There is never a situation EVER where being at frame advantage is a bad thing. It's why it's called frame ADVANTAGE :P Again, that doesn't make it an instant win scenario but it does increase your options.
(EDIT) Also, short backdashes are bad against Abel. Cody trying to back Abel's f+mk will be air reset by a standing fp (first hit whiffs, second hits). Same with all the short backdashers (honda, fei, etc). You want the long range backdashes like chun li, gen, etc.
Bison's u2 doesn't really shut down fireballs unless you're at pretty close range or really obviously buffering.
This one dude's Bison we play does. His execution is fast as fuck though.
At full screen you have to predict or be buffering the ultra to catch ryu. It takes a long time for u2 to get over there. I think he's probably predicting the fireball.
I'll probably be getting the AfroDojo stream going again this Thursday. I've had some stuff going on that's prevented me from making it out for a while, but should be bringing it back again this week.
I agree step kick is a great command normal its best use if counter footsie more so than dashing after blocked step kick.
It's got a lot of uses, neither of those things are bad. Step kick confirm combos are crazy damaging but I think you guys are seriously discounting the mind game of a blocked step kick. Yeah, it's not an instant victory for Abel but no frame advantage move (ken's ex tatsu, chun's SBK, etc) are. There's a mixup where your opponent can guess right and escape it, or even reversal you and punish. The thing is, guessing wrong against Abel *HURTS LIKE A BITCH*. Guessing wrong against Ken or Chun Li? Maybe a 200-250 damage combo at best (more if ultra/FADC is used).
Also not to be rude but the opponents reg grab will beat any of your options after blocked step kick save for reg TT.
I don't like your use of the word 'beat'. Beat implies that you take the advantage away from Abel. Abel can tech the grab or go for his own throw. Now you're both neutral, nothing really gained or lost. Abel can jump/dash back your throw attempt. Nothing gained, nothing lost. If Abel is constantly trying to follow up step kicks with normals, throwing makes sense. But it's a gamble like anything else. How sure are you that he's not going to TT? The worst thing in the world is getting untechable knockdown by Abel.
You may be plus a frame but Able has no three frame poke.
There is never a situation EVER where being at frame advantage is a bad thing. It's why it's called frame ADVANTAGE :P Again, that doesn't make it an instant win scenario but it does increase your options.
(EDIT) Also, short backdashes are bad against Abel. Cody trying to back Abel's f+mk will be air reset by a standing fp (first hit whiffs, second hits). Same with all the short backdashers (honda, fei, etc). You want the long range backdashes like chun li, gen, etc.
This is gonna look kind of weird cause I suck with multi quotes but here goes.
1:Step Kick: No doubt its not bad to dash after blocked step kick. Hell I do it all the time but I think people overvalue the "mix up" that comes after. And yes guessing wrong against able does hurt and leads to more set ups. But the opp guessing right hurts him too. As an example you step kick dash TT. Opp (Say Cody) does a n Jump. You will eat 402 with no meter. Also this is assuming they dont just BD or jump out
2. "Beat" Well you do take the advantage away from him. In two different ways
-Lets say you and Able both reg grab. Its a tech and space is reset. Resetting the space is what the opp wants. It lets them get the space they need to run their tricks. Like Chun poking or say Rose frame traps
-Also that grab beats more then it looses to by far. It looses to TT (and to crazy shit like guess ultra, super ect) But it will beat all of his ground pokes and any other special he does. Mathematically he is at a disadvantage if the opp does a reg grab after blocked step kick. Its actually best for Able himself to teg grab after blocked step kick.
3. Frames: Plus frames is not bad no. But its not really plus frames either. Its actually neutral because of Able's lack of three frame poke. Is this good for Able yeah its fine cause he has some options that beat opps stuff and some options that loose. But in general his stuff looses to more things than it beats. As I mentioned above his best option is a reg back grab. If the opp does any poke they get thrown into perfect safe jump & OS range. If the grab you tech which resets space, which sucks for you but at least you dont loose life. If they n jump you have time to recover from the grab and sFP them either as a trade or clean hit. Clean hit means roll mix ups. Same thing works if they try to cross up jump you. But BD and Jump Back are basically free
Back dashes: Yeah sHP second hit will hit some of them my bad on that. But its space dependent and if your Able and you land a block step kick, especially if they are crouching, there is no need to try the sHP cause it whifs on crouchers. If you try a crouching poke they can BD and either retaliate clean or have frame advantage.
Bison's u2 doesn't really shut down fireballs unless you're at pretty close range or really obviously buffering.
This one dude's Bison we play does. His execution is fast as fuck though.
At full screen you have to predict or be buffering the ultra to catch ryu. It takes a long time for u2 to get over there. I think he's probably predicting the fireball.
Naw Hiryu is talking from closer than full screen. He means in actual footsie. Including right outside sHK range. The player he is referring to isnt the only one. Most of the Bisons we play either here or when traveling can do it well. But I dont play a FB character so its all good for me. Or as good as it can be versus Bison.
God fucking damn it, I was quite contemplating picking up Ibuki after being bored of Dudley, but thinking her learning curve was on par with C.Viper, I'd simply throw my DS3 at the wall in frustration. And now here comes this video, taunting me to try her :x
Severin, are you the same Severin that beat Mike Z. At that BB tourney a few weeks ago? If so, damn that was a painful set to watch. Great lambda play bro!
Blank, you know I love me some stepkick, but I just don't have anywhere near the confidence in a blocked step kick as you. He doesn't put you into a hard 50/50 after a blocked step kick, but it also isn't a disadvantage for Abel. Overall, it's his weakest mixup oppurtunity IMO, especially with the magic he can work off of untechable KDs.
Overall I think the issue is that Abel mains know all the ways he can be screwed off a blocked step kick, but that doesn't change it's potential or diminish usefulness. It's like breathless, once you calm down and know how to avoid it the ultra loses a lot of luster.
Severin, are you the same Severin that beat Mike Z. At that BB tourney a few weeks ago? If so, damn that was a painful set to watch. Great lambda play bro!
Blank, you know I love me some stepkick, but I just don't have anywhere near the confidence in a blocked step kick as you. He doesn't put you into a hard 50/50 after a blocked step kick, but it also isn't a disadvantage for Abel. Overall, it's his weakest mixup oppurtunity IMO, especially with the magic he can work off of untechable KDs.
Overall I think the issue is that Abel mains know all the ways he can be screwed off a blocked step kick, but that doesn't change it's potential or diminish usefulness. It's like breathless, once you calm down and know how to avoid it the ultra loses a lot of luster.
Nope that wasnt me. Surprised to hear someone else go by my old family name like that though. I dont play Blaz though. Want to but when I try it makes my SF game go down the toilet.
God fucking damn it, I was quite contemplating picking up Ibuki after being bored of Dudley, but thinking her learning curve was on par with C.Viper, I'd simply throw my DS3 at the wall in frustration. And now here comes this video, taunting me to try her :x
Oh SSF4PC, you can't be released fast enough.
You can see Gamerbee "waking up" to the matchup a bit in the second round, which to me is pretty impressive.
Posts
He also has good anti-airs, with and without meter. The main thing is to know that everything he has is situational, for example he has like 5 AA's, but the correct one must be used in each scenario.
Keeping him at an awkward range is probably your best bet for zoning.
TWITTER TWATS
I'm not a great Abel. Probably not even a good Abel but a lot of his mixups feel like auto pilot. Plus his step kick footsie turns into a combo on hit or mixup on block. He has only cancel-able sweep in the game for more mixups. I used to think there was a really high execution barrier for his combos, but it's not very hard to do compared to other charcters including step kick and fadc rekka.
In my viewpoints, you are always in a positive risk reward when you mixup with Abel and he has very effective tools to put him in that position.
Sorry Sol, I'll have to disagree here. Off a blocked stepkick, you want to get out of 80% of his mixup? Backdash. It avoids TT, regular throw, tick throw, blockstring, or anything else really. To punish BD after stepkick, you have to guess that they will BD. Again, guess.
A player that knows the Abel matchup will exploit that in most mixups, there is a gaping hole that leads to painful damage for Abel. Abel can NOT cover every escape option without exposing himself to eating a ton of damage himself if he guesses wrong.
So yeah, there is no way in hell it's always positive risk/reward.
Regarding mixups as autopilot, that's true until your opponent learns to backdash after a blocked step kick. Granted, it doesn't work as well for every character, but in general backdashing after a blocked step kick really kills Abels options, and forces him to pick from ones that are not in his favor. The things that beat backdash (sweep, COD, wheel kick, dash TT) all require huge risks that lose to pretty much anything an opponent would do besides backdash. When you couple this with invincible reversal moves and 3 frame jabs, a blocked step kick is really not that much of a threat to someone playing smart. For instance, did you know that a 3 frame normal will beat all of Abel's options after a blocked step kick except for normal throw and EX TT? Hell, a normal throw beats everything Abel can do off of a blocked step kick except TT.
Basically, it isn't as rosy as you make it out to be. Still an amazing mixup character though.
EDIT: Damn you Hiryu for beating me to it!!!
XBL / GFWL: Boceifus
You know what I hate about Fei Long? The fact that if you use U1 on a cornered opponent then they won't be cornered at the end of the ultra. I mean, it just seems completely uncalled for.
XBL / GFWL: Boceifus
RE Abel and step kick: Even though it has 'counters' the advantage is clearly in Abel's favor. +1 after the dash, bigger damage if he guesses right, and (unless your opponent goes balls out random with an ultra or something) you aren't going to eat anything huge.
It reminds me a lot of Ken's ex tatsu except Abel has *far* superior mixups after, doesn't require EX meter to do it, and (on some of the cast anyway) doesn't require them to be standing or land a cr.hp to make them stand.
(EDIT) also, fei long's antique controller motions is the worst design decision ever. On that note, anyone else really hate how it's called the "tiger knee motion" when Sagat's tiger knee no longer uses that fucking motion?
I still maintain that backdashing gets you out of every good option that he has off of a blocked step kick, and that his other options leave him wide open to eating huge damage.
Take Ken and Balrog for instance. They block a step kick and then can use a 3 frame normal that can hit confirm into ultra. Honda gets EX Headbutt and EX splash. Ryu, jab into shoryu into ultra. Pretty much every character that I can think off has really good ways to do damage if they have meter and block a step kick. If they have been backdashing and force the Abel to account for that, his mixups are extremely diminished. +1 is not a huge advantage when your quickest normal is 4 frames of activation.
XBL / GFWL: Boceifus
In two more matches Gamerbee would have learned the Ibuki match up and owned him.
However, getting the timing down for backdashing out of safe pressure like that is tricky and easy to screw up in the heat of battle.
What to do when you block Able's step kick
-BD
Beats: All remotely smart options. TT, EX TT, Block, Grab, footsie. Even small backdashes work fine here and in a way are more dangerous. Cody for example can BD and he is still close enough to punish with a cMP, Hk Ruffian FADC U1
Looses: Guess specials and ultras. But usually if the Able is doing this either they are really desperate or the opp is really easy to read.
Jump Back:
Beats: All remotely smart options. Basically the same things as above. Depending on whos jump it also beats certain strengths of guess COD and Wheel Kick.
Looses to: Guess specials of the correct strength and guess ultras. Or guess jump forward + FP. Same thing here though. Either the Able is desperate or the opp is mad easy to read
SRK:
Beats: Every damn thing when done right basically. Especially if it is a three frame. If its four or higher its not as easy but it still works for SRKs that have any kind of invulnerability. It will beat all pokes, all specials and if done as a reversal will beat breathless too since reversals armor break. And in some cases will go over you if you guess Soulless letting them punish your recovery
Looses: To block and guess super and maybe, have to test, EX roll if the SRK is 4 frames or slower.
Reg Grab
Beats: All pokes, and specials except for one
Looses: To reg TT only. Hell even if Able N jumps most characters can whiff reg Grab and punish him on the way down
Teleport:
Beats: Most everything
Looses: Bait and punish strats. Also depending on the port depennds on how you punish.
So aside from the character specific, SRK and teleport every character in the game has three really great options after blocking step kick. BD, jump back or reg grab. And I didnt even get into stuff like EX Psycho crusher, Headbutt ect.
Also I think I saw someone say his AA wasnt great. Thats crazy. For starters he has a normal AA for basically any situation. You just have to know how to use em. And if you have meter you can use EX Falling Sky. Which nets you an untechable KD and leads to his set ups. Able's AA is better than a good chunk of the cast.
Able is good in this game but most people act like he is OP or that he has all these advantageous situations and he doesn't.
Eh its not always if they can combo them. Certain ultras shut down other options which is enough. Bison's new ultra stops any kind of fireball save for maybe Guile. Demon can be used to puinsh some stuff but in general Akuma is scary because of the shear number of options he has and the dmg he can dish out. Cammy juggles into U1 just fine and despite all the hate counter Ultras work in some match ups as well. Chun is also considered 1st and she has no problem landing any of her ultras. Honda does crazy damage without landing ultra and his grab cant be jumped out of after the flash. There plenty of set ups for it and his Headbutt ultra also helps versus fireballs.
3 frame normal loses to abel's f+mk dash -> regular throw. You're +1, throws are 3 frames startup. Anyone who's jabbing you out of a step kick is taking a gamble that you're going to do a slow normal or non-EX TT. Throws lead to more mixups.
Honda EX headbutt = Abel baits this with a short roll. Risky as fuck, but if the honda player is ex headbutting every stepkick, roll it then Ultra 1. Yes it works. EX Splash is a free anything if you bait it. CR.fp -> U1... whatever.
I'm not saying his step kick is the GOD DAMN BATMAN of Street Fighter but you're seriously discounting one of the best command normals (easily top 3, if not #1) in the game.
This one dude's Bison we play does. His execution is fast as fuck though.
3 frame normal loses to abel's f+mk dash -> regular throw. You're +1, throws are 3 frames startup. Anyone who's jabbing you out of a step kick is taking a gamble that you're going to do a slow normal or non-EX TT. Throws lead to more mixups.
Honda EX headbutt = Abel baits this with a short roll. Risky as fuck, but if the honda player is ex headbutting every stepkick, roll it then Ultra 1. Yes it works. EX Splash is a free anything if you bait it. CR.fp -> U1... whatever.
I'm not saying his step kick is the GOD DAMN BATMAN of Street Fighter but you're seriously discounting one of the best command normals (easily top 3, if not #1) in the game.[/QUOTE]
I agree step kick is a great command normal its best use if counter footsie more so than dashing after blocked step kick.
Also not to be rude but the opponents reg grab will beat any of your options after blocked step kick save for reg TT. You may be plus a frame but Able has no three frame poke. All his stuff is four frames meaning frame perfect execution has you poking at the same time they are grabbing. Which means you get grabbed because of grabs beating pokes at close range. Though if you catch them trying to tech hooray for TT. But as said above they can just jump back and avoid the guess all together.
For Honda Able has basically a 100% in his favor of attack if he lands a back throw on Honda. He can OS cross up jump in with EX roll or LK roll. EX roll beats all of Hondas options and means free ultra punish. LK roll looses to EX butt drop but allows for more punishment options if Able doesnt have ultra.
It's got a lot of uses, neither of those things are bad. Step kick confirm combos are crazy damaging but I think you guys are seriously discounting the mind game of a blocked step kick. Yeah, it's not an instant victory for Abel but no frame advantage move (ken's ex tatsu, chun's SBK, etc) are. There's a mixup where your opponent can guess right and escape it, or even reversal you and punish. The thing is, guessing wrong against Abel *HURTS LIKE A BITCH*. Guessing wrong against Ken or Chun Li? Maybe a 200-250 damage combo at best (more if ultra/FADC is used).
I don't like your use of the word 'beat'. Beat implies that you take the advantage away from Abel. Abel can tech the grab or go for his own throw. Now you're both neutral, nothing really gained or lost. Abel can jump/dash back your throw attempt. Nothing gained, nothing lost. If Abel is constantly trying to follow up step kicks with normals, throwing makes sense. But it's a gamble like anything else. How sure are you that he's not going to TT? The worst thing in the world is getting untechable knockdown by Abel.
There is never a situation EVER where being at frame advantage is a bad thing. It's why it's called frame ADVANTAGE :P Again, that doesn't make it an instant win scenario but it does increase your options.
(EDIT) Also, short backdashes are bad against Abel. Cody trying to back Abel's f+mk will be air reset by a standing fp (first hit whiffs, second hits). Same with all the short backdashers (honda, fei, etc). You want the long range backdashes like chun li, gen, etc.
At full screen you have to predict or be buffering the ultra to catch ryu. It takes a long time for u2 to get over there. I think he's probably predicting the fireball.
This is gonna look kind of weird cause I suck with multi quotes but here goes.
1:Step Kick: No doubt its not bad to dash after blocked step kick. Hell I do it all the time but I think people overvalue the "mix up" that comes after. And yes guessing wrong against able does hurt and leads to more set ups. But the opp guessing right hurts him too. As an example you step kick dash TT. Opp (Say Cody) does a n Jump. You will eat 402 with no meter. Also this is assuming they dont just BD or jump out
2. "Beat" Well you do take the advantage away from him. In two different ways
-Lets say you and Able both reg grab. Its a tech and space is reset. Resetting the space is what the opp wants. It lets them get the space they need to run their tricks. Like Chun poking or say Rose frame traps
-Also that grab beats more then it looses to by far. It looses to TT (and to crazy shit like guess ultra, super ect) But it will beat all of his ground pokes and any other special he does. Mathematically he is at a disadvantage if the opp does a reg grab after blocked step kick. Its actually best for Able himself to teg grab after blocked step kick.
3. Frames: Plus frames is not bad no. But its not really plus frames either. Its actually neutral because of Able's lack of three frame poke. Is this good for Able yeah its fine cause he has some options that beat opps stuff and some options that loose. But in general his stuff looses to more things than it beats. As I mentioned above his best option is a reg back grab. If the opp does any poke they get thrown into perfect safe jump & OS range. If the grab you tech which resets space, which sucks for you but at least you dont loose life. If they n jump you have time to recover from the grab and sFP them either as a trade or clean hit. Clean hit means roll mix ups. Same thing works if they try to cross up jump you. But BD and Jump Back are basically free
Back dashes: Yeah sHP second hit will hit some of them my bad on that. But its space dependent and if your Able and you land a block step kick, especially if they are crouching, there is no need to try the sHP cause it whifs on crouchers. If you try a crouching poke they can BD and either retaliate clean or have frame advantage.
Naw Hiryu is talking from closer than full screen. He means in actual footsie. Including right outside sHK range. The player he is referring to isnt the only one. Most of the Bisons we play either here or when traveling can do it well. But I dont play a FB character so its all good for me. Or as good as it can be versus Bison.
God fucking damn it, I was quite contemplating picking up Ibuki after being bored of Dudley, but thinking her learning curve was on par with C.Viper, I'd simply throw my DS3 at the wall in frustration. And now here comes this video, taunting me to try her :x
Oh SSF4PC, you can't be released fast enough.
IMPOSSIBLE. HE IS A GENTLEMAN!
Blank, you know I love me some stepkick, but I just don't have anywhere near the confidence in a blocked step kick as you. He doesn't put you into a hard 50/50 after a blocked step kick, but it also isn't a disadvantage for Abel. Overall, it's his weakest mixup oppurtunity IMO, especially with the magic he can work off of untechable KDs.
Overall I think the issue is that Abel mains know all the ways he can be screwed off a blocked step kick, but that doesn't change it's potential or diminish usefulness. It's like breathless, once you calm down and know how to avoid it the ultra loses a lot of luster.
XBL / GFWL: Boceifus
I also miss the rose being a viable trick in his arsenal. Would've been nice to mix things up.
Nope that wasnt me. Surprised to hear someone else go by my old family name like that though. I dont play Blaz though. Want to but when I try it makes my SF game go down the toilet.
You can see Gamerbee "waking up" to the matchup a bit in the second round, which to me is pretty impressive.
That Ibuki is straight nasty though.
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