Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
I'm leaving this here because it fit. Wasn't obvious to me until Batwoman #0
The end of the comic, which has Bruce tracking Kate Kane and Batwoman to prove they are one and the same, Bruce comments that Kate has the thing he can never teach her-a hole in herself created by crime that can never be filled.
The hole in things, you could say.
Reading RIP, the Return, all the B&R Hurt swan songs and everything else, it was never boiled down so simply and clearly here: Dr. Hurt is, or was, the embodiment of that 'hole' in Bruce Wayne. It sounds so obvious now, but until reading issue 0 of an unrelated comic, I'd never made the connection that Hurt is the personification of Batman's core character trait.
Of course, revealing that other people could experience the same thing might seem to make Dr. Hurt less special, but he's a personal demon, after all.
The backup for Detective Comics Annual about the origin of the French Batman Inc candidate was amazing, great arc, and a really cool take on the idea of a Paris hero.
Unfortunately, the other 40 story pages don't live up to the same praise
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited December 2010
yeah I really like Nightrunner
I'm nervous about Batman Inc. introducing all of these characters because there's no way they'll all get series
I just hope Batman Inc. sticks so we can get Batman later just going on random adventures with these guys across the globe, exploring their little facets of the DCU and their rogues galleries and stuff
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
I'm waiting for die Fledermaus and Batmanuel to show up, leading to the Tick people suing.
Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
I suspect this internet thing is going to be a late game plot point that will be there for five seconds to do one thing and then be gone again. I hope.
I dunno, I like the idea of giving Barbara a place where she can be a physical force again, and dress up as Batgirl/Batwoman/Lady Batman. But that page was so abrupt and weird that I'm not sure where Morrison will go with it.
But in a world where the Calculator can go into people's computers and blow their heads up, a digital crimefighter isn't so far-fetched.
Was Barbara ever a good fighter? I know she can hold her own, but she's not in the same league as Cassandra Cain, Shiva, and Dinah Lance. There was this one issue of Batgirl where Cassie trained with a holographic Barbara pre-killing joke. Cassie took it down in seconds. And then she did it again, faster, and again and again and again.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
Batgirl Year One showed her to be rather good with impromptu stuff. But overall she was probably the weakest of all the Bat-family characters in terms of fighting skills. Stephanie would probably be second to last.
TexiKen on
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited December 2010
see to me, Stephanie could be a better fighter than Tim with the right training
Batgirl Year One showed her to be rather good with impromptu stuff. But overall she was probably the weakest of all the Bat-family characters in terms of fighting skills. Stephanie would probably be second to last.
Well, Barbara was primarily Batgirl during that whole Silver Age Batman period, where everyone was kind of bumbling. Post-Crisis, I don't think her career as Batgirl was supposed to be especially long, so I'd say her weakness was more a lack of experience, than ability.
Worth noting is that she's stated she's a better fighter now than she used to be, so she'd presumably be a much more capable crimefighter nowadays.
Also, I got the Alex Ross/Chip Kidd "Rough Justice" book from the library, and there's an interesting bit in there about a proposal he and Dini put together, for a new Barbara Gordon book. It involved having her dipped in a Lazarus Pit to heal her legs, which would also result in a mental break, turning her into a "darker, more compromised hero."
While I hate the latter part of that idea, I wouldn't really argue with the first part. It bugs the shit out of me that people can regularly come back from the dead, but certain conditions (HIV, paraplegia, cancer) are serious, and thus permanent, even in the face of magic and superscience.
Didn't she make a point out of the fact that while she could have her legs fixed through random supetech etc she wouldn't until that option was available to regular people? I thought that was a thing for her (which is pretty cool).
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited December 2010
yeah
I mean, it was news all over that Gotham's Police Commissioner's daughter was shot and paralyzed by the joker
she can't really just be like "uhhh I got better!"
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
Tim is being subsidized by that billionaire playboy, he flaunts his money left and right opening up Neon Knights night clubs. He flies Superman out to his birthday parties to light the candles with his heat vision. Babs is just a working class librarian, she can't compete with that (and Gordon knows his daughter was Batgirl, just like he knows Dick is Batman now and that Bruce was Batman, it's too nice of a plot point to not make it so. Especially after No Man's Land where it's hard to explain away her watchtower being taken over and Nightwing saving her).
On the subject of Lazarus Pits, I was sad that in Action Comics Annual #13 that
Luthor didn't go bald in post-Infinite Crisis continuity by being dipped in the pit after Ra's killed him for essentially pressing the button that said "do not touch"
I mean, it was news all over that Gotham's Police Commissioner's daughter was shot and paralyzed by the joker
she can't really just be like "uhhh I got better!"
People do recover from paralysis. It's not common, but it happens. Though the cause is usually less traumatic than a bullet.
Still, I'm railing less against superheroes not getting super-cures, but normal people not getting them.
Like, why can't Cyborg or Steel come up with a line of prosthetics, which would be available to the public? Or mechanical eyes for the blind? I understand that there's the concern of distancing the DC Universe too much from our world, but when people build robots that can steal superheroes' powers, or actual artificial intelligence, it just comes off as silly. Sillier, anyway.
I mean, it was news all over that Gotham's Police Commissioner's daughter was shot and paralyzed by the joker
she can't really just be like "uhhh I got better!"
People do recover from paralysis. It's not common, but it happens. Though the cause is usually less traumatic than a bullet.
Still, I'm railing less against superheroes not getting super-cures, but normal people not getting them.
Like, why can't Cyborg or Steel come up with a line of prosthetics, which would be available to the public? Or mechanical eyes for the blind? I understand that there's the concern of distancing the DC Universe too much from our world, but when people build robots that can steal superheroes' powers, or actual artificial intelligence, it just comes off as silly. Sillier, anyway.
This is something which Morrison did really well in All-Star Superman.
And I agree the DC Universe should have Superheroes who have solved the energy crisis and are working to counter Global Warming etc, that would be cool.
In simplest terms, the short term benefits of a story where mundane problems are solved with super-science and magic are outweighed by the longterm benefits of being able to draw upon mundane problems for your stories.
Plus, improved medical technology diminishes the stakes of battles or forces the writers to raise the stakes to compensate, which makes things ridiculous (as in Invincible, where super-healing means that every fight now has to result in a disemboweling.)
In simplest terms, the short term benefits of a story where mundane problems are solved with super-science and magic are outweighed by the longterm benefits of being able to draw upon mundane problems for your stories.
Plus, improved medical technology diminishes the stakes of battles or forces the writers to raise the stakes to compensate, which makes things ridiculous (as in Invincible, where super-healing means that every fight now has to result in a disemboweling.)
But a clever writer can take advantage of that.
It's not easier, but it is better. If better was easier then everyone would write great comics and they don't.
I don't like to apologise for writers, and I respect intelligence and daring as writing qualities.
Damn the torpedoes. Put that super-science into your books, step the Marvel or DC or whatever universe forward.
Every page spent on figuring out how to deal with the new status quo takes pages away from the stories that the writers really want to write, though. While some may have brilliant ways to cope with a change like that without sacrificing time they'd otherwise use on their own ideas, I think most would simply regard it as one more chore that comes with writing characters within a shared universe.
And it's not "better." At best, it's just a more sensible representation of a world that is predicated on concepts and characters that make no sense at any level. Whether or not it's an improvement depends on the quality of writing, and I think there's enough evidence showing the effects of editorial mandates to indicate that line-wide changes generally don't result in an improvement.
Take the SHRA as an example of an attempt to depict a foreseeable consequence of elements in the environment, just like what you're describing is a foreseeable consequence of all the healing crap out there. While the need for legislation to deal with all the heroes and crap was perfectly reasonable and some good stories resulted, it's not as though having to figure out where characters like Moon Knight and The Runaways stood in the post-SHRA world did anything to improve their stories. All it did was force periphery titles, which are usually in their own little world, to come down to Earth for several issues and rehash the same Pro & Con debate already featured in every other book at the time.
Every page spent on figuring out how to deal with the new status quo takes pages away from the stories that the writers really want to write, though. While some may have brilliant ways to cope with a change like that without sacrificing time they'd otherwise use on their own ideas, I think most would simply regard it as one more chore that comes with writing characters within a shared universe.
And it's not "better." At best, it's just a more sensible representation of a world that is predicated on concepts and characters that make no sense at any level.
I would argue that right now it is better. We have gone through many stories with the big two characters, it would be nice for them to actually change things in the Universes, shake things up a bit. It gives new opprtunities and those pages shouldn't be seen as taking away from other stuff but instead a chance to do something different.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited December 2010
Wow, I was shocked that Batman did something that horrible to Death Man.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
0
Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
I just read Batman Inc. #2
I just want more.
Like, Now.
I was just a little disappointed that Mr. Unknown's Batsuit was so identical to Bruce's. But not really.
Bri:
I didn't even see it at first. Stuck in a safe and then shot into deep space? So, is he, like, just forever hemorrhaging in an abandoned satellite?
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0
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
Batman Inc:
I loved the use of Japanese sound effects on the last page.
And Jiro's girlfriend's reaction to being attacked by a guy with a skull for a head.
And the fact that aqua-lady was half superhero, half idol.
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited December 2010
It was really great.
Can you picture DC getting a Japanese writing crew and putting out a Batman book in Japan?
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
0
Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
Ha!
They can barely cater to people in America!
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited December 2010
Never let it be said that DC would miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
Damnit, what movie was that from? Gonna be scratching my head all night on that one.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
0
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
Golda Meir said it, so maybe it was in Munich?
I do think it would be rather fun if DC published one manga volume of Batman Japan in the traditional format. Grant Morrison writes it, pick an upcoming artist to have fun with it. I'd actually like to see one-shots of the various Batmen around the world published in a traditional (insert country here) format. We already have Cornell producing great stuff with Knight & Squire, keep up the trend.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
Is Knight and Squire doing well in the UK?
I kind of wondered if it's enjoyed there, or if it's got more of an outsider's appeal.
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0
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
Don't know if it's doing well or not, Solar and Wildcat should tell us. It better be doing well.
Don't know if it's doing well or not, Solar and Wildcat should tell us. It better be doing well.
Eh
Guy I know down at forbidden planet says that it hasn't been overly popular because it isn't a portrayal of England people can get behind. I can understand that really because it is very Southern in terms of it's content and I live in the North, and also it's a bit cutesy. I mean sure it's lots of fun and comics with a sense of light-hearted humour are always welcome to me but reading about a parody of England isn't massively interesting. I mean, we have seen it and done it ourselves before.
Apparantly people have been picking it up because of the Batman and Robin connection though.
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0
Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
I was wondering if that might be the case. I mean, it seems pretty amusing to me, but I don't know how I'd take to it if I was from the UK.
I was just a little disappointed that Mr. Unknown's Batsuit was so identical to Bruce's. But not really.
Me, too. Especially since
Nightrunner got his own specially designed suit in Batman Annual.
It's Nightwing-chic, which makes sense. They even played up the similarities by having Dick train him, with Nightrunner noting "this Batman's quicker, more fluid. like me"
Posts
The end of the comic, which has Bruce tracking Kate Kane and Batwoman to prove they are one and the same, Bruce comments that Kate has the thing he can never teach her-a hole in herself created by crime that can never be filled.
The hole in things, you could say.
Reading RIP, the Return, all the B&R Hurt swan songs and everything else, it was never boiled down so simply and clearly here: Dr. Hurt is, or was, the embodiment of that 'hole' in Bruce Wayne. It sounds so obvious now, but until reading issue 0 of an unrelated comic, I'd never made the connection that Hurt is the personification of Batman's core character trait.
Of course, revealing that other people could experience the same thing might seem to make Dr. Hurt less special, but he's a personal demon, after all.
Unfortunately, the other 40 story pages don't live up to the same praise
I'm nervous about Batman Inc. introducing all of these characters because there's no way they'll all get series
...unless they're webseries...
...on Internet 3.0...
And weapons and vehicles no one else has access to.
.. I don't think Batman really knows much about the internet.
Tumblr Twitter
Tumblr Twitter
But in a world where the Calculator can go into people's computers and blow their heads up, a digital crimefighter isn't so far-fetched.
Tumblr Twitter
Tim just has a better drive than her
It's because her mom's still alive. You can't go the distance with an umbilical cord holding you back.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Worth noting is that she's stated she's a better fighter now than she used to be, so she'd presumably be a much more capable crimefighter nowadays.
Also, I got the Alex Ross/Chip Kidd "Rough Justice" book from the library, and there's an interesting bit in there about a proposal he and Dini put together, for a new Barbara Gordon book. It involved having her dipped in a Lazarus Pit to heal her legs, which would also result in a mental break, turning her into a "darker, more compromised hero."
While I hate the latter part of that idea, I wouldn't really argue with the first part. It bugs the shit out of me that people can regularly come back from the dead, but certain conditions (HIV, paraplegia, cancer) are serious, and thus permanent, even in the face of magic and superscience.
Tumblr Twitter
I mean, it was news all over that Gotham's Police Commissioner's daughter was shot and paralyzed by the joker
she can't really just be like "uhhh I got better!"
Isn't that Tim Drake's plan, essentially?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
On the subject of Lazarus Pits, I was sad that in Action Comics Annual #13 that
Still, I'm railing less against superheroes not getting super-cures, but normal people not getting them.
Like, why can't Cyborg or Steel come up with a line of prosthetics, which would be available to the public? Or mechanical eyes for the blind? I understand that there's the concern of distancing the DC Universe too much from our world, but when people build robots that can steal superheroes' powers, or actual artificial intelligence, it just comes off as silly. Sillier, anyway.
Tumblr Twitter
So when that nice man comes to the hospital offering a cure, you just say no thank you and walk/roll/hobble away.
This is something which Morrison did really well in All-Star Superman.
And I agree the DC Universe should have Superheroes who have solved the energy crisis and are working to counter Global Warming etc, that would be cool.
Plus, improved medical technology diminishes the stakes of battles or forces the writers to raise the stakes to compensate, which makes things ridiculous (as in Invincible, where super-healing means that every fight now has to result in a disemboweling.)
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
But a clever writer can take advantage of that.
It's not easier, but it is better. If better was easier then everyone would write great comics and they don't.
I don't like to apologise for writers, and I respect intelligence and daring as writing qualities.
Damn the torpedoes. Put that super-science into your books, step the Marvel or DC or whatever universe forward.
And it's not "better." At best, it's just a more sensible representation of a world that is predicated on concepts and characters that make no sense at any level. Whether or not it's an improvement depends on the quality of writing, and I think there's enough evidence showing the effects of editorial mandates to indicate that line-wide changes generally don't result in an improvement.
Take the SHRA as an example of an attempt to depict a foreseeable consequence of elements in the environment, just like what you're describing is a foreseeable consequence of all the healing crap out there. While the need for legislation to deal with all the heroes and crap was perfectly reasonable and some good stories resulted, it's not as though having to figure out where characters like Moon Knight and The Runaways stood in the post-SHRA world did anything to improve their stories. All it did was force periphery titles, which are usually in their own little world, to come down to Earth for several issues and rehash the same Pro & Con debate already featured in every other book at the time.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
I would argue that right now it is better. We have gone through many stories with the big two characters, it would be nice for them to actually change things in the Universes, shake things up a bit. It gives new opprtunities and those pages shouldn't be seen as taking away from other stuff but instead a chance to do something different.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I just want more.
Like, Now.
Bri:
And Jiro's girlfriend's reaction to being attacked by a guy with a skull for a head.
And the fact that aqua-lady was half superhero, half idol.
And... just everything about the book, really.
Can you picture DC getting a Japanese writing crew and putting out a Batman book in Japan?
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
They can barely cater to people in America!
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I do think it would be rather fun if DC published one manga volume of Batman Japan in the traditional format. Grant Morrison writes it, pick an upcoming artist to have fun with it. I'd actually like to see one-shots of the various Batmen around the world published in a traditional (insert country here) format. We already have Cornell producing great stuff with Knight & Squire, keep up the trend.
I kind of wondered if it's enjoyed there, or if it's got more of an outsider's appeal.
Eh
Guy I know down at forbidden planet says that it hasn't been overly popular because it isn't a portrayal of England people can get behind. I can understand that really because it is very Southern in terms of it's content and I live in the North, and also it's a bit cutesy. I mean sure it's lots of fun and comics with a sense of light-hearted humour are always welcome to me but reading about a parody of England isn't massively interesting. I mean, we have seen it and done it ourselves before.
Apparantly people have been picking it up because of the Batman and Robin connection though.
They already did!
Me, too. Especially since
It's Nightwing-chic, which makes sense. They even played up the similarities by having Dick train him, with Nightrunner noting "this Batman's quicker, more fluid. like me"
and then Japanese Batman's suit is just Bruce's.