Paul was a no-brainer. He's as much a Tekken mascot as Kazuya or Heihachi are. A few friends will be happy that Xiaoyu's in. I'm not holding my breath, but I wouldn't mind Christie/Eddy being on the roster. With my luck though, they'll give us Elena instead, if they're going to put in any capoeira-style fighters.
There's also a low-quality recording of Seth explaining the gem system from NYCC. Posted below.
They're giving away exclusive gems as pre-order bonuses. Seems safer to assume that gems will be part of some special vs mode. At least, hopefully they are.
A full, comprehensive list of all the various mechanics and uses for super meters has been put into video format from NYCC. This video also goes much more in depth about the gem system.
There's a surprising amount of uses for super meter and just "extras" that it almost seems like too much. I'm all for options in my matches, but definitely gone are the simpler days of fighting games.
Dang, this game looks pretty sweet. But I suck large quantities of ass at fighting games, any word on a "simple" control scheme ala MvC3?
From what I played at Gamescom the controls are already simpler than SF4, there's no FADCing and the combos feel more like target combos. Some commands, like the piano lightning legs for Chun Li, were simplified into QCF kick.
From my PoV, the gameplay mechanics is what will make this game hard (maybe read this as: interesting) to play.
I'm not sure I understand what counter means in Street Fighter. I thought it was just an indicator that you hit your opponent while they were trying to attack.
A counter hit means pretty much the same as what it means in every other fighting game.
It's a property that's usually applied when an attack interrupts another (but not always, some games have dash counters, step counters, and Virtua Fighter has major and minor counters), and it gives the attack special properties. They almost always do more damage and give more advantage frames (meaning they can allow combos that a normal attack wouldn't), but will sometimes completely change the way the move works, by adding a stun or a knockdown or a launch. This mechanic is very prominent in 3d fighters, where often most attack strings won't even combo unless it's a counter hit (natural combo vs natural combo on counter, or nc vs ncc), and since there's not really anything like a block string on offence, being able to hit confirm things like that is very important.
This sort of mechanic has been used before. In Soulcalibur if a player soul charged then their next attack would become a counter hit (on top of any soul charge properties it might gain). Same with Tekken's power-up thing.
As a side note, Virtua Fighter's system of major and minor counters is a little strange at first. It has normal counters for when a player interrupts the initial frames of another player's attack with one of their own, and this is a called a major counter. It works like counter hits do in other fighting games. But it also has a secondary counter hit property for when a player hits another during their recovery frames. This is a minor counter, and doesn't carry the same weight as a major counter hit, but can still give a player advantages. I've always liked that system. It often feels strange that there's such a distinct cut-off point for when the defender can get their counter hit. As soon as they block anything, or the moves attack animations are done, they're out of luck. Or maybe it's because I've been playing characters that have really terrible natural combos the last couple of years.
Soul Charge lvl 1 gave you counterhits, lvl 2 gave you guard crushes, and lvl 3 gave you unblockables, all depending on the character's moves, and charging to certain levels also allows access to secret soul charge moves while they're still charged.
In 2D fighters though a counterhit usually only means more frames of advantage and more damage.
The gem system sounds awesome. I know it's the internet and all, but I really wish people would stop complaining about it. This is a new game, it's not sf and it's not tekken. Gems hopefully won't break the game, and if they do, players can always just not equip them. The whole situation feels too much like, "Final Destination, no items, fox only" type of stuff. We should at least wait for the game to come out before we pass judgement.
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The gem system itself could be fun, or complicate the mechanics even more. I'll reserve judgement until I see more. The "some gems are DLC" is pretty lame though, especially the pre-order & collector's edition exclusives, unless they amount to stuff like on activation Lili's butler follows you on screen throwing money in the air when you hit the opponent. :P
The problem I have with gems is that it puts extra strain on tournament organizers and streamers. Any gems that aren't unlocked from the get go won't be allowed due to finding enough machines with all the right unlocks/DLC. And can you imagine gem selection? Button checks still take up a ton of time on your average stream, gemming could end up taking longer than a match.
I don't share the pessimism about the gem system. Overall, if I had to say what company can put out a good fighting game, it's Capcom.
Although I can see it boiling down to people min-maxing their characters.
The thing I'm thinking about now, if I had to be sceptical:
Will the gem system make the game impossible to balance for Ono and his team?
OR is it a mechanism by which Capcom will be able to tell players to balance the game on their own? "So you think Hakan is underpowered? Add these speed gems and he's right up there." Which, of course, doesn't really fly because every character has the same gems. This also openes up "counter picking" gems before every match. I also know I'm jumping to conclusions here, we'll see.
We all know how much Capcom, Ono, and Seth respect the tournament scene. They aren't going to make anything that will legitimately destroy the game. I think by this point, they understand what they are doing and are taking all of peoples worries into consideration.
It's more likely that they both don't really care, but still realize that since it's a Capcom fighting game people will play it regardless of quality, as has always been the case.
It's more likely that they both don't really care, but still realize that since it's a Capcom fighting game people will play it regardless of quality, as has always been the case.
That's too cynical IMO. You can't pour your life into somethings like this and not care. The game will be good. If the game gets broken by any of the game mechanics, I'm sure the effect will be toned down post release. That is, if Capcom has learned that post release support pays off. I really hope the suits over there realise they have a potential e-sport on their hands, not just any random game.
That's too cynical IMO. You can't pour your life into somethings like this and not care. The game will be good. If the game gets broken by any of the game mechanics, I'm sure the effect will be toned down post release. That is, if Capcom has learned that post release support pays off. I really hope the suits over there realise they have a potential e-sport on their hands, not just any random game.
They might not want every game to be tournament viable, though.
A game lasting many years is not necessarily a good thing when you want people to buy the next big thing.
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Not to mention MvC3 was obviously rushed, I mean it had a lot of the problems the original SF4 had.
Why so many people were mad about UMvC3 when it was first announced.
We'll see with this one though. They seem to be putting more work into it.
Not to mention MvC3 was obviously rushed, I mean it had a lot of the problems the original SF4 had.
Why so many people were mad about UMvC3 when it was first announced.
We'll see with this one though. They seem to be putting more work into it.
The next best thing might never come though. And I mean that the public that plays fighting games, and keeps playing them, isn't that big. Capcom has had a hard time realising that people are none to happy paying for a game that's hardly more than an expansion to the previous one. As was the case with SSF4 and, obviously, UMvC3. So they have to bolt on stuff to make the package seem more valuable, even though it wasn't really needed.
If games seem rushed I'm always inclined to think that they ran out of development budget and not because the publisher wanted a money grab. There's a big difference there. And I think we should be glad that MvC3 was successful enough to warrant a follow-up.
It would be more in Capcom's interest, at least in my opinion, to adopt the "platform" strategy where they could sell a game and build on it with DLC or expansions, but keep let the core game keep its value. I don't think they'll get there with SFxT because of Capcom being a Japanese based company and the importance of arcades, even though arcades should be able to update their software too, right?
I was taking the e-sports angle on this because Blizzard seems to be able to make things happen for Starcraft 2. If you had to ask them about the next best thing for Starcraft. They'd propably answer: "The next best thing is this expansion we have coming soon and everyone will buy it because they love the core game, and they won't be excluded from playing even if they don't." If you started asking about when to expect Starcraft 3, aka the classic next big thing, they'd want to know under which rock you have been living.
Seth Killian has already said they they built a new engine from the ground up for SFxT, so I hope they kept the internet in mind while building it. Seeing AE, I'm hopefull.
You can say what you want, but Capcom has a history of doing the absolute minimum for their games and tourney players still eating them up. It doesn't matter. The game has to be a new level of awful, like Capcom Fighting Jam, for it to really get ignored. And I bet that if tourneys had been a bit bigger at the time then people would have still played that. People kept playing overwhelmingly broken games like Street Fighter Alpha 3 after everyone knew they were broken trash, because it's a 2d Capcom game, so why not? Capcom shoved out 3 sequels to X-men vs Street Fighter, and each one of them had the exact same broken stuff that the last game had. Street Fighter 4's tutorial content is a joke. Marvel vs Capcom 3's online stuff is so half-baked that it's probably still frozen in the middle. They've never bothered to do something as simple as making button binds not retarded, which is why you still see Street Fighter 4 button checks in every tourney.
Cynical? Very. I'd never deny that. But there's plenty of precedence.
I like the fact that it would make mirror matches potentially more interesting... but, yeah, the other stuff isn't quite as awesome.
I suck at throw techs, plain and simple. Having an option to have the cpu tech for me is NOT A GOOD IDEA. It will become a horrible crutch for some and they won't be able to adapt to other fighting games.
The real disparity that goes on between high and low players is skill, execution, and knowledge. No gem is going to be able to remedy that outside of Lol X-factor level 3 levels of ridiculousness.
I like the fact that it would make mirror matches potentially more interesting... but, yeah, the other stuff isn't quite as awesome.
I suck at throw techs, plain and simple. Having an option to have the cpu tech for me is NOT A GOOD IDEA. It will become a horrible crutch for some and they won't be able to adapt to other fighting games.
The real disparity that goes on between high and low players is skill, execution, and knowledge. No gem is going to be able to remedy that outside of Lol X-factor level 3 levels of ridiculousness.
What if you need to tech 5 throws before the auto-tech gem becomes active?
If the game becomes tournament game, they could always ban gems, or force people to use the same gems. Wait and see. Isn't there any more (accurate) info out there?
I like the fact that it would make mirror matches potentially more interesting... but, yeah, the other stuff isn't quite as awesome.
I suck at throw techs, plain and simple. Having an option to have the cpu tech for me is NOT A GOOD IDEA. It will become a horrible crutch for some and they won't be able to adapt to other fighting games.
The real disparity that goes on between high and low players is skill, execution, and knowledge. No gem is going to be able to remedy that outside of Lol X-factor level 3 levels of ridiculousness.
What if you need to tech 5 throws before the auto-tech gem becomes active?
If the game becomes tournament game, they could always ban gems, or force people to use the same gems. Wait and see. Isn't there any more (accurate) info out there?
It will definitely depend on how much the gems affect the gameplay.
At the very least a list of which gems will be available would need to be part of the tournament announcement, since the pre-order or DLC ones might not be.
If everything that changes the game starts getting denounced we're heading into "No gems, no ultras, Ryu only, final destination" territory.
What if you need to tech 5 throws before the auto-tech gem becomes active?
If the game becomes tournament game, they could always ban gems, or force people to use the same gems. Wait and see. Isn't there any more (accurate) info out there?
I think we already know it uses meter to activate. Whether it has an additional cooldown on it, who knows.
The game seems VERY meter intensive, so using it might be an automatic negative for a high level player.
But, find two characters who aren't meter intensive?
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Why wouldn't Zafina be in the game? She's freaking awesome.
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There's also a low-quality recording of Seth explaining the gem system from NYCC. Posted below.
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There's a surprising amount of uses for super meter and just "extras" that it almost seems like too much. I'm all for options in my matches, but definitely gone are the simpler days of fighting games.
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Woohoo! I'm already thinking about what characters my team will have.
From what I played at Gamescom the controls are already simpler than SF4, there's no FADCing and the combos feel more like target combos. Some commands, like the piano lightning legs for Chun Li, were simplified into QCF kick.
From my PoV, the gameplay mechanics is what will make this game hard (maybe read this as: interesting) to play.
It's a property that's usually applied when an attack interrupts another (but not always, some games have dash counters, step counters, and Virtua Fighter has major and minor counters), and it gives the attack special properties. They almost always do more damage and give more advantage frames (meaning they can allow combos that a normal attack wouldn't), but will sometimes completely change the way the move works, by adding a stun or a knockdown or a launch. This mechanic is very prominent in 3d fighters, where often most attack strings won't even combo unless it's a counter hit (natural combo vs natural combo on counter, or nc vs ncc), and since there's not really anything like a block string on offence, being able to hit confirm things like that is very important.
This sort of mechanic has been used before. In Soulcalibur if a player soul charged then their next attack would become a counter hit (on top of any soul charge properties it might gain). Same with Tekken's power-up thing.
As a side note, Virtua Fighter's system of major and minor counters is a little strange at first. It has normal counters for when a player interrupts the initial frames of another player's attack with one of their own, and this is a called a major counter. It works like counter hits do in other fighting games. But it also has a secondary counter hit property for when a player hits another during their recovery frames. This is a minor counter, and doesn't carry the same weight as a major counter hit, but can still give a player advantages. I've always liked that system. It often feels strange that there's such a distinct cut-off point for when the defender can get their counter hit. As soon as they block anything, or the moves attack animations are done, they're out of luck. Or maybe it's because I've been playing characters that have really terrible natural combos the last couple of years.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
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god damn.
In 2D fighters though a counterhit usually only means more frames of advantage and more damage.
The back button? Like in MvC3? Maybe? I don't know.
I suppose the gems all activate automatically, so you won't need the start button for gem swapping like in Marvel Superheroes.
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Guess we'll finally see what the breaking point for Capcom fighting games is.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
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1. Clearly it's rude, I feel bad for the presenters.
2. I'm a rufus fan, and after his awesome trailer, he deserves more cred.
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Other than that, I think the idea is kinda neat.
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Although I can see it boiling down to people min-maxing their characters.
The thing I'm thinking about now, if I had to be sceptical:
Will the gem system make the game impossible to balance for Ono and his team?
OR is it a mechanism by which Capcom will be able to tell players to balance the game on their own? "So you think Hakan is underpowered? Add these speed gems and he's right up there." Which, of course, doesn't really fly because every character has the same gems. This also openes up "counter picking" gems before every match. I also know I'm jumping to conclusions here, we'll see.
But that's just logical think, fuck me right?
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
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That's too cynical IMO. You can't pour your life into somethings like this and not care. The game will be good. If the game gets broken by any of the game mechanics, I'm sure the effect will be toned down post release. That is, if Capcom has learned that post release support pays off. I really hope the suits over there realise they have a potential e-sport on their hands, not just any random game.
They might not want every game to be tournament viable, though.
A game lasting many years is not necessarily a good thing when you want people to buy the next big thing.
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Why so many people were mad about UMvC3 when it was first announced.
We'll see with this one though. They seem to be putting more work into it.
The next best thing might never come though. And I mean that the public that plays fighting games, and keeps playing them, isn't that big. Capcom has had a hard time realising that people are none to happy paying for a game that's hardly more than an expansion to the previous one. As was the case with SSF4 and, obviously, UMvC3. So they have to bolt on stuff to make the package seem more valuable, even though it wasn't really needed.
If games seem rushed I'm always inclined to think that they ran out of development budget and not because the publisher wanted a money grab. There's a big difference there. And I think we should be glad that MvC3 was successful enough to warrant a follow-up.
It would be more in Capcom's interest, at least in my opinion, to adopt the "platform" strategy where they could sell a game and build on it with DLC or expansions, but keep let the core game keep its value. I don't think they'll get there with SFxT because of Capcom being a Japanese based company and the importance of arcades, even though arcades should be able to update their software too, right?
I was taking the e-sports angle on this because Blizzard seems to be able to make things happen for Starcraft 2. If you had to ask them about the next best thing for Starcraft. They'd propably answer: "The next best thing is this expansion we have coming soon and everyone will buy it because they love the core game, and they won't be excluded from playing even if they don't." If you started asking about when to expect Starcraft 3, aka the classic next big thing, they'd want to know under which rock you have been living.
Seth Killian has already said they they built a new engine from the ground up for SFxT, so I hope they kept the internet in mind while building it. Seeing AE, I'm hopefull.
Cynical? Very. I'd never deny that. But there's plenty of precedence.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
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I don't really understand why. Any of these things will be good for new players, but will also be more fully exploited by pros.
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I suck at throw techs, plain and simple. Having an option to have the cpu tech for me is NOT A GOOD IDEA. It will become a horrible crutch for some and they won't be able to adapt to other fighting games.
The real disparity that goes on between high and low players is skill, execution, and knowledge. No gem is going to be able to remedy that outside of Lol X-factor level 3 levels of ridiculousness.
What if you need to tech 5 throws before the auto-tech gem becomes active?
If the game becomes tournament game, they could always ban gems, or force people to use the same gems. Wait and see. Isn't there any more (accurate) info out there?
It will definitely depend on how much the gems affect the gameplay.
At the very least a list of which gems will be available would need to be part of the tournament announcement, since the pre-order or DLC ones might not be.
If everything that changes the game starts getting denounced we're heading into "No gems, no ultras, Ryu only, final destination" territory.
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ono has gone on record and saying that they can't be disabled
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I think we already know it uses meter to activate. Whether it has an additional cooldown on it, who knows.
The game seems VERY meter intensive, so using it might be an automatic negative for a high level player.
But, find two characters who aren't meter intensive?
There's so much we don't know yet.
Can't disable, yes, but can you start the game without selecting any?
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But it might be possible to select an empty gem slot, or gems that won't work with your character, or any number of things. We don't know enough yet.
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