Isn't threat decay going to start being a thing in cataclysm? A return to "wait for five sunders" seems unlikely.
They mentioned they were thinking about it, but I don't think they've really gone through with it yet? I could be wrong though.
Personally, I hate the idea. I can manage my threat without too much difficulty by maintaining a threat buffer between myself and the tank, but with fast threat decay, that goes out the window.
I mean sure, I guess it's technically its reasonable to expect the tank not to suck, but I liked being able to still function with a shit tank.
I don't have a problem with threat the way it is now. People who aren't careful go past the tank and they die. Where is the issue that needs to be fixed, other than DK threat generation atm?
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I'm just saying some tanks have to use more abilities depending on the situation to generate threat. My paladin can basically just drop a Consecrate, shield, and then hammer and I can go make a sandwich. It has nothing to do with me being unique, just the lack of interesting protadin tanking abilities. Paladin threat is strong, almost too strong.
Isn't threat decay going to start being a thing in cataclysm? A return to "wait for five sunders" seems unlikely.
They mentioned they were thinking about it, but I don't think they've really gone through with it yet? I could be wrong though.
Personally, I hate the idea. I can manage my threat without too much difficulty by maintaining a threat buffer between myself and the tank, but with fast threat decay, that goes out the window.
I mean sure, I guess it's technically its reasonable to expect the tank not to suck, but I liked being able to still function with a shit tank.
I don't have a problem with threat the way it is now. People who aren't careful go past the tank and they die. Where is the issue that needs to be fixed, other than DK threat generation atm?
Their claim is they want tanks to always feel like their job is never done.
I don't really have a problem with a slow threat decay, where for example, over several minutes your threat would mostly disappear. I just don't want it to happen quickly.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
I thought that's why they brought tank damage up, so it wasn't just about generating threat but also dealing damage. Once I make threat I make damages.
Isn't threat decay going to start being a thing in cataclysm? A return to "wait for five sunders" seems unlikely.
They mentioned they were thinking about it, but I don't think they've really gone through with it yet? I could be wrong though.
Personally, I hate the idea. I can manage my threat without too much difficulty by maintaining a threat buffer between myself and the tank, but with fast threat decay, that goes out the window.
I mean sure, I guess it's technically its reasonable to expect the tank not to suck, but I liked being able to still function with a shit tank.
Under no circumstances whatsoever is it reasonable to expect the tank to not suck.
This is my biggest issue with the threat decay thing.
As a tank, I don't care. I don't think I'll have issues because I think I'm a pretty damn good tank.
But as dps, I do care, more often than not the tanks you get in pugs and even in guilds, tend to be not good at all. Some are passable, but many are just straight up shit. Sure, you get your good one now and then but I've known people who have gone tank spec purely so they can get gear and so they can not get benched. They have no vested interest in the actual act of tanking or the idea of tanking, they're doing it purely for either priority on gear or having less people to compete with gear.
And you get what you pay for.
So as a DPS, or I would imagine, as heals, this change is gonna be a dealbreaker for pugging heroics and whatnot if it goes in. The average tank you get via the LFD menu will not be able to maintain constant threat in any capacity whatsoever. If they cannot possibly hold threat now, if they start losing that threat it's just gonna go to shit every single pull.
I'm not a fan of balancing a game around the lowest common denominator but I really hope Blizzard looks at this idea closer because in the end it's not going to be the tank who is effected the most by the change, its the DPS and healers, and more often than not I think it's going to fuck up things more than it will keep anything interesting.
I always make sure do random with a rogue friend of mine so she can tricks the tank constantly - its the only way I can NOT pull aggro from most pug tanks. Although part of this is just stupid warlock aggro and my massive outgearing most randoms.
Threat decay is a great idea if they get the fuck away from this garbage where it's great to have 18 adds show up on a boss fight. Or, if you can only use your ranged abilities on a mob and have to out-threat healers because if you get in melee range of the item you die. Lawl now there's two of those!
Plus, why should tank threat be any different than anyone elses' threat? Healer and dps threat should decay as well. If a DPS isn't attacking that 3rd guy over there, their threat should dwindle just as fast as the 2nd tank in the fight if he's not doing anything.
Which pretty much makes threat decay a pointless gimmick at that point. Kind of like putting vehicle fights into a game a la Malygos.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Threat decay is a great idea if they get the fuck away from this garbage where it's great to have 18 adds show up on a boss fight. Or, if you can only use your ranged abilities on a mob and have to out-threat healers because if you get in melee range of the item you die. Lawl now there's two of those!
Plus, why should tank threat be any different than anyone elses' threat? Healer and dps threat should decay as well. If a DPS isn't attacking that 3rd guy over there, their threat should dwindle just as fast as the 2nd tank in the fight if he's not doing anything.
Which pretty much makes threat decay a pointless gimmick at that point. Kind of like putting vehicle fights into a game a la Malygos.
It's not a gimmick at all. You seem to be misunderstanding the idea.
Threat Decay means that the tank must, over the course of whatever the decay period is (say, 60 seconds), generate more threat then the DPS. And he has to KEEP doing this every decay period.
So, to use 60 seconds, every minute the tank must generate more threat across that minute then the DPS do.
All it means is that the tanks can no longer get so far ahead in threat that, by halfway through the fight, they can just fart around and do nothing because their lead is insurmountable.
I guess you run with a bunch of dps that don't do shit or a bunch of dk tanks that spam IT.
The threat lead I usually end up with could be overcome within about 10 seconds of me not doing anything. It hasn't really been like that since vanilla wow.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Threat decay is a great idea if they get the fuck away from this garbage where it's great to have 18 adds show up on a boss fight. Or, if you can only use your ranged abilities on a mob and have to out-threat healers because if you get in melee range of the item you die. Lawl now there's two of those!
Plus, why should tank threat be any different than anyone elses' threat? Healer and dps threat should decay as well. If a DPS isn't attacking that 3rd guy over there, their threat should dwindle just as fast as the 2nd tank in the fight if he's not doing anything.
Which pretty much makes threat decay a pointless gimmick at that point. Kind of like putting vehicle fights into a game a la Malygos.
It's not a gimmick at all. You seem to be misunderstanding the idea.
Threat Decay means that the tank must, over the course of whatever the decay period is (say, 60 seconds), generate more threat then the DPS. And he has to KEEP doing this every decay period.
So, to use 60 seconds, every minute the tank must generate more threat across that minute then the DPS do.
All it means is that the tanks can no longer get so far ahead in threat that, by halfway through the fight, they can just fart around and do nothing because their lead is insurmountable.
My question is: When does this ever happen?
Early in a raid tier tanks can usually put out the threat required to hold aggro well for most progression fights. But typically, and particularly near the end of raid tiers and xpacks, dps scales so high so fast that it actually becomes a significant challenge to hold threat on dps race fights. On technical fights it's not as much of an issue but then there's often more important shit going on than worrying about the fine numbers of threat. That's where things like MD and TotT come in to the picture, and their plan with those is to make them temporary threat boosts that have the bonus threat fall off after a period of time so they're not a long term solution. I can think of several fights, in ICC, that if there was no MD or TotT it would turn into "wait for the tank to get aggro before we can do shit" again.
I can't think of any time in WotLK that there was actually a situation where a tank could get so high in threat they didn't need to worry about it for the rest of the fight. That just straight up didn't happen and doesn't happen. I guess if you take a full 264/277 tank into Naxx where everyone else is in heroic blues you might run into that but that'd be a fucking stupid thing to balance around.
It is a gimmick and just one more thing a tank really shouldn't have to worry about on top of already having to worry about threat to begin with. Only bad tanks every just "stop" anyway, and again, you shouldn't balance around the lowest common denominator; particularly with such a crucial role and a role that so many people are so bad at.
It's not a gimmick at all. You seem to be misunderstanding the idea.
Threat Decay means that the tank must, over the course of whatever the decay period is (say, 60 seconds), generate more threat then the DPS. And he has to KEEP doing this every decay period.
So, to use 60 seconds, every minute the tank must generate more threat across that minute then the DPS do.
All it means is that the tanks can no longer get so far ahead in threat that, by halfway through the fight, they can just fart around and do nothing because their lead is insurmountable.
Well, that brings up my biggest gripe.
They talk about how threat should decay "pretty rapidly". But the only time frame they give is "bigger than a few swings".
If the half life of threat is 60 seconds, that's manageable, but that really doesn't sound "rapid" either.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
I guess you run with a bunch of dps that don't do shit or a bunch of dk tanks that spam IT.
The threat lead I usually end up with could be overcome within about 10 seconds of me not doing anything. It hasn't really been like that since vanilla wow.
The only fights that this isn't true on is where all the dps has to switch targets for a significant amount of time and the tank is free to continue building a threat lead (and even then it kinda depends)
For instance, Jaraxxis - after the first mistress I generally don't have to worry about threat ever. But a fight like marrowgar for instance, yeah, we switch to bone spikes, but half the time I can just aoe and still be hitting the boss, and I'm riding the tank for threat the whole fight.
I guess you run with a bunch of dps that don't do shit or a bunch of dk tanks that spam IT.
The threat lead I usually end up with could be overcome within about 10 seconds of me not doing anything. It hasn't really been like that since vanilla wow.
The only fights that this isn't true on is where all the dps has to switch targets for a significant amount of time and the tank is free to continue building a threat lead (and even then it kinda depends)
For instance, Jaraxxis - after the first mistress I generally don't have to worry about threat ever. But a fight like marrowgar for instance, yeah, we switch to bone spikes, but half the time I can just aoe and still be hitting the boss, and I'm riding the tank for threat the whole fight.
There are only a handful of fights that it is still a thing.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Threat decay is a great idea if they get the fuck away from this garbage where it's great to have 18 adds show up on a boss fight. Or, if you can only use your ranged abilities on a mob and have to out-threat healers because if you get in melee range of the item you die. Lawl now there's two of those!
Plus, why should tank threat be any different than anyone elses' threat? Healer and dps threat should decay as well. If a DPS isn't attacking that 3rd guy over there, their threat should dwindle just as fast as the 2nd tank in the fight if he's not doing anything.
Which pretty much makes threat decay a pointless gimmick at that point. Kind of like putting vehicle fights into a game a la Malygos.
It's not a gimmick at all. You seem to be misunderstanding the idea.
Threat Decay means that the tank must, over the course of whatever the decay period is (say, 60 seconds), generate more threat then the DPS. And he has to KEEP doing this every decay period.
So, to use 60 seconds, every minute the tank must generate more threat across that minute then the DPS do.
All it means is that the tanks can no longer get so far ahead in threat that, by halfway through the fight, they can just fart around and do nothing because their lead is insurmountable.
My question is: When does this ever happen?
Early in a raid tier tanks can usually put out the threat required to hold aggro well for most progression fights. But typically, and particularly near the end of raid tiers and xpacks, dps scales so high so fast that it actually becomes a significant challenge to hold threat on dps race fights. On technical fights it's not as much of an issue but then there's often more important shit going on than worrying about the fine numbers of threat. That's where things like MD and TotT come in to the picture, and their plan with those is to make them temporary threat boosts that have the bonus threat fall off after a period of time so they're not a long term solution. I can think of several fights, in ICC, that if there was no MD or TotT it would turn into "wait for the tank to get aggro before we can do shit" again.
I can't think of any time in WotLK that there was actually a situation where a tank could get so high in threat they didn't need to worry about it for the rest of the fight. That just straight up didn't happen and doesn't happen. I guess if you take a full 264/277 tank into Naxx where everyone else is in heroic blues you might run into that but that'd be a fucking stupid thing to balance around.
It is a gimmick and just one more thing a tank really shouldn't have to worry about on top of already having to worry about threat to begin with. Only bad tanks every just "stop" anyway, and again, you shouldn't balance around the lowest common denominator; particularly with such a crucial role and a role that so many people are so bad at.
Why are comparing an idea they had for Cataclysm with the current situation in WOTLK? You know, the one they've said they don't like and are trying to fix for Cataclysm?
Threat Decay, if implemented, would coincide with other tools (like Vengeance) that let Tank Threat scale much better with DPS threat.
I guess you run with a bunch of dps that don't do shit or a bunch of dk tanks that spam IT.
The threat lead I usually end up with could be overcome within about 10 seconds of me not doing anything. It hasn't really been like that since vanilla wow.
Maybe your tanks suck? There's a ton of fights I can go brain-dead on with aggro-generation after the first minute and no one would notice. It's only a fight for the first few seconds and then I'm so far ahead I'd have to go AFK or something for the DPS to come close. You can half-ass your rotation after that and still stay miles ahead of the DPS.
I doubt they'll implement it though. They've said many times they want Tanks to worry mostly about staying alive, not about holding aggro. A design philosophy that would be at odds with Threat Decay.
Threat Decay might also cause problems with certain encounters.
It's not like they've talked about it more then the once though anyway. It came up in passing one day as an idea they were thinking of.
Yeah, if the other rogue and myself didn't tricks the tank, we would probably overtake him pretty quick. Granted we're doing about 15k dps if it's a single target fight, but there aren't too many of those left, really
For instance, threat decay on a fight like rotface would be a fucking nightmare to deal with. It's pretty obvious, as I've said time and again, the blizzard doesn't really play tank classes, or rather, ghostcrawler's team.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
The problem is that raids are mostly about tank survivability. 5 mans are mostly about aggro control. You can't really lean on one while forgetting about the other
I guess you run with a bunch of dps that don't do shit or a bunch of dk tanks that spam IT.
The threat lead I usually end up with could be overcome within about 10 seconds of me not doing anything. It hasn't really been like that since vanilla wow.
Maybe your tanks suck? There's a ton of fights I can go brain-dead on with aggro-generation after the first minute and no one would notice. It's only a fight for the first few seconds and then I'm so far ahead I'd have to go AFK or something for the DPS to come close. You can half-ass your rotation after that and still stay miles ahead of the DPS.
I doubt they'll implement it though. They've said many times they want Tanks to worry mostly about staying alive, not about holding aggro. A design philosophy that would be at odds with Threat Decay.
Threat Decay might also cause problems with certain encounters.
No it's pretty obvious your dps sucks. Unless we're talking about Vezex or something, yeah, I can see it. Or the fights where they were designed to be that way like the blood princes or bql.
Edit:
Maybe dps sucking is a bit over the top, you're likely in the sweet spot where your dps get shit done, but, your tank outperforms them by a large margin, or outgears them.
When your dps are doing 12k, that threat window is tiny unless your a DK spamming IT and runestrike.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Blood Princes tend to fuck me over on threat, but only on keleseth. Usually, even if Keleseth is the first empowered, the tank has only got about 50k threat on the mob, I guess from chasing down orbs so much. Even if I manage to tricks him, I'm sure as shit going to burn through aggro before the cooldown is up again, even when using feint. I often just have to stop attacking outright until tricks is up again
I guess you run with a bunch of dps that don't do shit or a bunch of dk tanks that spam IT.
The threat lead I usually end up with could be overcome within about 10 seconds of me not doing anything. It hasn't really been like that since vanilla wow.
Maybe your tanks suck? There's a ton of fights I can go brain-dead on with aggro-generation after the first minute and no one would notice. It's only a fight for the first few seconds and then I'm so far ahead I'd have to go AFK or something for the DPS to come close. You can half-ass your rotation after that and still stay miles ahead of the DPS.
I doubt they'll implement it though. They've said many times they want Tanks to worry mostly about staying alive, not about holding aggro. A design philosophy that would be at odds with Threat Decay.
Threat Decay might also cause problems with certain encounters.
No it's pretty obvious your dps sucks. Unless we're talking about Vezex or something, yeah, I can see it. Or the fights where they were designed to be that way like the blood princes or bql.
Yeah, sure there buddy.
If you can't easily stay ahead of the like 12-13k DPS, you are doing something wrong. Seriously wrong. I can half-ass my rotation and never have an issue.
By the time a minutes done, my mind wanders to other shit in the fight like yelling at people to stay out shit on the floor or snaring adds or some shit.
It's also worth mentioning whether you raid primarily 10s or 25s. It's actually much easier to hold threat in 25s, since you've got more misdirects/tricks and higher tank dps
It's also worth mentioning whether you raid primarily 10s or 25s. It's actually much easier to hold threat in 25s, since you've got more misdirects/tricks and higher tank dps
Currently, yes.
In Cata, no. Those threat sources will fall off after their duration instead of permanently add to threat.
It's also worth mentioning whether you raid primarily 10s or 25s. It's actually much easier to hold threat in 25s, since you've got more misdirects/tricks and higher tank dps
I miss tricks in our 10man.
(Edit: But yeah, I have a lot more issues with threat in 10man, even though most of the raid buffs I get are provided by myself and a resto shaman.)
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
It's also worth mentioning whether you raid primarily 10s or 25s. It's actually much easier to hold threat in 25s, since you've got more misdirects/tricks and higher tank dps
Or what fight we're talking about. Or if it's hardmode or not.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Open, but since you're introduced to vasj'ir via quest no one is quite sure how you get there after the initial trip
You can just fly or once you've done the quest the teleporter can send you.
Fly from where and in which direction? Isn't it between the continents midway?
I flew from Vash'jr to Ironforge directly. Its technically on the Eastern Kingdoms.
It's true, this works, but I've also heard of people having fatigue issues getting there, since it's pretty literally in the middle of the ocean. But yeah, it's on the EK side of the maelstrom
It's also worth mentioning whether you raid primarily 10s or 25s. It's actually much easier to hold threat in 25s, since you've got more misdirects/tricks and higher tank dps
I miss tricks in our 10man.
(Edit: But yeah, I have a lot more issues with threat in 10man, even though most of the raid buffs I get are provided by myself and a resto shaman.)
Er, we're talking about potential changes to threat in Cata due to Vengeance and threat decay and basing it on our experiences in WotLK.
Open, but since you're introduced to vasj'ir via quest no one is quite sure how you get there after the initial trip
You can just fly or once you've done the quest the teleporter can send you.
Fly from where and in which direction? Isn't it between the continents midway?
I flew from Vash'jr to Ironforge directly. Its technically on the Eastern Kingdoms.
I never found a FP in Vash'jr.
I mean, I found a couple of the underwater ones but not an overland one.
Go up to the surface and poke around, there'll be an island with FPs of each type. The problem is, unless you're just wandering around, there's nothing that points to it at all. The only way to find it is to be told by another player, or just poke around randomly. And since pretty much the entire zone takes place on the ocean floor, there's no real reasons to head to the surface.
I mean, I found a couple of the underwater ones but not an overland one.
I meant I flew myself... but, there is actually a flight point on one of the sand bars above water. I think its across the abyss near the southern area of the first area of Vash'jr (kelp forest I think?).
It's also worth mentioning whether you raid primarily 10s or 25s. It's actually much easier to hold threat in 25s, since you've got more misdirects/tricks and higher tank dps
I miss tricks in our 10man.
(Edit: But yeah, I have a lot more issues with threat in 10man, even though most of the raid buffs I get are provided by myself and a resto shaman.)
Er, we're talking about potential changes to threat in Cata due to Vengeance and threat decay and basing it on our experiences in WotLK.
Which is why I said that.
Most of us had jumped to Shryke saying that threat was never an issue now and our disagreeing with that to some extent. :rotate:
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
It's also worth mentioning whether you raid primarily 10s or 25s. It's actually much easier to hold threat in 25s, since you've got more misdirects/tricks and higher tank dps
Or what fight we're talking about. Or if it's hardmode or not.
DK, 10s and 25s, and it's funny that you bring up Hardmodes since every single hardmode except Lady D makes threat EASIER on the tanks. And Lady D is hard on threat in normal mode anyway cause of the debuff.
Although I agree that it does seem to be a bit harder to hold threat in 10s.
But shit, even on Saurfang, the Melee Patchwerk of ICC, I spend most of the fight Chains of Icing adds and such and barely pay attention to my threat. The only time it's an issue is right at the start when I blow Hysteria on our Feral Druid during Bloodlust.
So, you're aware that threat for DKs is severely lopsided, then, yes? So much so that I can't even touch half the threat a DK tank generates after a minute or two.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Posts
I don't have a problem with threat the way it is now. People who aren't careful go past the tank and they die. Where is the issue that needs to be fixed, other than DK threat generation atm?
Their claim is they want tanks to always feel like their job is never done.
I don't really have a problem with a slow threat decay, where for example, over several minutes your threat would mostly disappear. I just don't want it to happen quickly.
Under no circumstances whatsoever is it reasonable to expect the tank to not suck.
This is my biggest issue with the threat decay thing.
As a tank, I don't care. I don't think I'll have issues because I think I'm a pretty damn good tank.
But as dps, I do care, more often than not the tanks you get in pugs and even in guilds, tend to be not good at all. Some are passable, but many are just straight up shit. Sure, you get your good one now and then but I've known people who have gone tank spec purely so they can get gear and so they can not get benched. They have no vested interest in the actual act of tanking or the idea of tanking, they're doing it purely for either priority on gear or having less people to compete with gear.
And you get what you pay for.
So as a DPS, or I would imagine, as heals, this change is gonna be a dealbreaker for pugging heroics and whatnot if it goes in. The average tank you get via the LFD menu will not be able to maintain constant threat in any capacity whatsoever. If they cannot possibly hold threat now, if they start losing that threat it's just gonna go to shit every single pull.
I'm not a fan of balancing a game around the lowest common denominator but I really hope Blizzard looks at this idea closer because in the end it's not going to be the tank who is effected the most by the change, its the DPS and healers, and more often than not I think it's going to fuck up things more than it will keep anything interesting.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
I am a freaking nerd.
Oh man, I love cooldowns on my tanks. I think it's just been programmed into me from playing healers for... 5 years.
Plus, why should tank threat be any different than anyone elses' threat? Healer and dps threat should decay as well. If a DPS isn't attacking that 3rd guy over there, their threat should dwindle just as fast as the 2nd tank in the fight if he's not doing anything.
Which pretty much makes threat decay a pointless gimmick at that point. Kind of like putting vehicle fights into a game a la Malygos.
It's not a gimmick at all. You seem to be misunderstanding the idea.
Threat Decay means that the tank must, over the course of whatever the decay period is (say, 60 seconds), generate more threat then the DPS. And he has to KEEP doing this every decay period.
So, to use 60 seconds, every minute the tank must generate more threat across that minute then the DPS do.
All it means is that the tanks can no longer get so far ahead in threat that, by halfway through the fight, they can just fart around and do nothing because their lead is insurmountable.
Fly from where and in which direction? Isn't it between the continents midway?
The threat lead I usually end up with could be overcome within about 10 seconds of me not doing anything. It hasn't really been like that since vanilla wow.
My question is: When does this ever happen?
Early in a raid tier tanks can usually put out the threat required to hold aggro well for most progression fights. But typically, and particularly near the end of raid tiers and xpacks, dps scales so high so fast that it actually becomes a significant challenge to hold threat on dps race fights. On technical fights it's not as much of an issue but then there's often more important shit going on than worrying about the fine numbers of threat. That's where things like MD and TotT come in to the picture, and their plan with those is to make them temporary threat boosts that have the bonus threat fall off after a period of time so they're not a long term solution. I can think of several fights, in ICC, that if there was no MD or TotT it would turn into "wait for the tank to get aggro before we can do shit" again.
I can't think of any time in WotLK that there was actually a situation where a tank could get so high in threat they didn't need to worry about it for the rest of the fight. That just straight up didn't happen and doesn't happen. I guess if you take a full 264/277 tank into Naxx where everyone else is in heroic blues you might run into that but that'd be a fucking stupid thing to balance around.
It is a gimmick and just one more thing a tank really shouldn't have to worry about on top of already having to worry about threat to begin with. Only bad tanks every just "stop" anyway, and again, you shouldn't balance around the lowest common denominator; particularly with such a crucial role and a role that so many people are so bad at.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Well, that brings up my biggest gripe.
They talk about how threat should decay "pretty rapidly". But the only time frame they give is "bigger than a few swings".
If the half life of threat is 60 seconds, that's manageable, but that really doesn't sound "rapid" either.
The only fights that this isn't true on is where all the dps has to switch targets for a significant amount of time and the tank is free to continue building a threat lead (and even then it kinda depends)
For instance, Jaraxxis - after the first mistress I generally don't have to worry about threat ever. But a fight like marrowgar for instance, yeah, we switch to bone spikes, but half the time I can just aoe and still be hitting the boss, and I'm riding the tank for threat the whole fight.
I am a freaking nerd.
There are only a handful of fights that it is still a thing.
Why are comparing an idea they had for Cataclysm with the current situation in WOTLK? You know, the one they've said they don't like and are trying to fix for Cataclysm?
Threat Decay, if implemented, would coincide with other tools (like Vengeance) that let Tank Threat scale much better with DPS threat.
Maybe your tanks suck? There's a ton of fights I can go brain-dead on with aggro-generation after the first minute and no one would notice. It's only a fight for the first few seconds and then I'm so far ahead I'd have to go AFK or something for the DPS to come close. You can half-ass your rotation after that and still stay miles ahead of the DPS.
I doubt they'll implement it though. They've said many times they want Tanks to worry mostly about staying alive, not about holding aggro. A design philosophy that would be at odds with Threat Decay.
Threat Decay might also cause problems with certain encounters.
It's not like they've talked about it more then the once though anyway. It came up in passing one day as an idea they were thinking of.
Most fights tend to have a lot of tank swapping, repositioning, and survivability issues though, thus tanks are busy anyway.
No it's pretty obvious your dps sucks. Unless we're talking about Vezex or something, yeah, I can see it. Or the fights where they were designed to be that way like the blood princes or bql.
Edit:
Maybe dps sucking is a bit over the top, you're likely in the sweet spot where your dps get shit done, but, your tank outperforms them by a large margin, or outgears them.
When your dps are doing 12k, that threat window is tiny unless your a DK spamming IT and runestrike.
Yeah, sure there buddy.
If you can't easily stay ahead of the like 12-13k DPS, you are doing something wrong. Seriously wrong. I can half-ass my rotation and never have an issue.
By the time a minutes done, my mind wanders to other shit in the fight like yelling at people to stay out shit on the floor or snaring adds or some shit.
Currently, yes.
In Cata, no. Those threat sources will fall off after their duration instead of permanently add to threat.
At least that was the espoused plan for them.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
I miss tricks in our 10man.
(Edit: But yeah, I have a lot more issues with threat in 10man, even though most of the raid buffs I get are provided by myself and a resto shaman.)
I flew from Vash'jr to Ironforge directly. Its technically on the Eastern Kingdoms.
Edit: forgot my response:
Judging by his posting habits, and threads, I can guess it's not a warrior, druid, or paladin, at least not for his main.
Or what fight we're talking about. Or if it's hardmode or not.
I never found a FP in Vash'jr.
I mean, I found a couple of the underwater ones but not an overland one.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
It's true, this works, but I've also heard of people having fatigue issues getting there, since it's pretty literally in the middle of the ocean. But yeah, it's on the EK side of the maelstrom
Er, we're talking about potential changes to threat in Cata due to Vengeance and threat decay and basing it on our experiences in WotLK.
Which is why I said that.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Go up to the surface and poke around, there'll be an island with FPs of each type. The problem is, unless you're just wandering around, there's nothing that points to it at all. The only way to find it is to be told by another player, or just poke around randomly. And since pretty much the entire zone takes place on the ocean floor, there's no real reasons to head to the surface.
I meant I flew myself... but, there is actually a flight point on one of the sand bars above water. I think its across the abyss near the southern area of the first area of Vash'jr (kelp forest I think?).
I wasn't sure if it wasn't implemented or what.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Most of us had jumped to Shryke saying that threat was never an issue now and our disagreeing with that to some extent. :rotate:
DK, 10s and 25s, and it's funny that you bring up Hardmodes since every single hardmode except Lady D makes threat EASIER on the tanks. And Lady D is hard on threat in normal mode anyway cause of the debuff.
Although I agree that it does seem to be a bit harder to hold threat in 10s.
But shit, even on Saurfang, the Melee Patchwerk of ICC, I spend most of the fight Chains of Icing adds and such and barely pay attention to my threat. The only time it's an issue is right at the start when I blow Hysteria on our Feral Druid during Bloodlust.