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What keeps you from joining the next level of competition in your games?

1235

Posts

  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Page- wrote: »
    There are plenty of tournament players who hold down regular jobs, and unless they really want to get something done or they're building up to a coming competition, most people can easily get away with less than an hour a day, or a couple hours every other day and keep their skills at a reasonable level. It's quality over quantity; you learn more, and retain more, playing with better players.

    That's because they've already reached that level of skill - getting to that point is another matter entirely.

    True, but they can reach that point much faster and easier by playing with better players and applying what's learnt.

    I get what you mean, but I think it's less common for a person who has never played the gametype in question to pick it up and devote a bunch of time to getting good for no reason, but people who are even a bit familiar with what they're doing can get into it things relatively easily. I've seen both happen, but the catalyst for the greatest improvement was always getting together with better players and learning from them.

    I kind of addressed this a few pages back when I talked about front-end loaded skills in certain games that people grew up with.

    Page- on
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  • ChenChen Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Does it really take that much time to get good? I'm not talking about world championship level, but good enough to take on random strangers. Learning the rules doesn't take that much effort. You should be good to go once you know how it works.

    Chen on
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  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Page- wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Page- wrote: »
    There are plenty of tournament players who hold down regular jobs, and unless they really want to get something done or they're building up to a coming competition, most people can easily get away with less than an hour a day, or a couple hours every other day and keep their skills at a reasonable level. It's quality over quantity; you learn more, and retain more, playing with better players.

    That's because they've already reached that level of skill - getting to that point is another matter entirely.

    True, but they can reach that point much faster and easier by playing with better players and applying what's learnt.

    I get what you mean, but I think it's less common for a person who has never played the gametype in question to pick it up and devote a bunch of time to getting good for no reason, but people who are even a bit familiar with what they're doing can get into it things relatively easily. I've seen both happen, but the catalyst for the greatest improvement was always getting together with better players and learning from them.

    I kind of addressed this a few pages back when I talked about front-end loaded skills in certain games that people grew up with.

    That's kind of thing I guess - if you didn't grow up playing games that have a strong competitive side, you'll be less inclined to play those once you're old enough to know what's up.

    I've never liked fighting games (and still don't). I always liked to turtle in RTS games, and developers have decided that isn't a valid way to play them anymore so I don't play those (and why I never liked Starcraft and have no interest in SC2). I play FPSes, but I've never gotten past the "OK for a pubbie" level of play. So now I spend most of my time with TBS games (yeah), sports games (can't play competitive unless you glitch like hell), and single-player RPGs :P

    a5ehren on
  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Aumni wrote: »
    Split this argument into a D&D thread please. I'm more interested in why some of you guys aren't coming to street fighter tournaments with me.

    Well, it's simple for me! I also have no interest in Street Fighter. At all. I did play competitively locally (Halo 1 -> 3 and DoA3) for a few years before I stopped... for one reason really: it wasn't fun for me anymore.

    Winning the first time felt awesome... but after that one it was just meh. Kind of hard to stay competitive when the reward sensation of winning diminishes over the years. Prizes (games, money, etc) weren't all that great either... or I already had them. It just got pointless.

    Socially, the more I won and became known for winning the less random people wanted to play the games with me... not fun. On campus (years ago) I could clear out the game room except for the regs, and even then there was hesitance. While I can still play games up that level, in general I hold back a lot to keep things competitive for everybody. I have to say it's fun to sneak onto my old campus and go to the game room and wreck people and leave, but yea. clearing rooms on occasion = fun. all the time = not so much. ;p

    In the larger games your options were restricted to a really narrow ruleset that I didn't find terribly interesting to play with (MLG rules for Halo or instance). but all in all it just... wasn't fun. or competition and I just grew apart.

    tastydonuts on
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  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's more effort than time.

    You can spend hours and hours learning nothing, if you don't actually apply anything.

    Page- on
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  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Aumni wrote: »
    Split this argument into a D&D thread please. I'm more interested in why some of you guys aren't coming to street fighter tournaments with me.

    Well, it's simple for me! I also have no interest in Street Fighter. At all. I did play competitively locally (Halo 1 -> 3 and DoA3) for a few years before I stopped... for one reason really: it wasn't fun for me anymore.

    Winning the first time felt awesome... but after that one it was just meh. Kind of hard to stay competitive when the reward sensation of winning diminishes over the years. Prizes (games, money, etc) weren't all that great either... or I already had them. It just got pointless.

    Socially, the more I won and became known for winning the less random people wanted to play the games with me... not fun. On campus (years ago) I could clear out the game room except for the regs, and even then there was hesitance. While I can still play games up that level, in general I hold back a lot to keep things competitive for everybody. I have to say it's fun to sneak onto my old campus and go to the game room and wreck people and leave, but yea. clearing rooms on occasion = fun. all the time = not so much. ;p

    In the larger games your options were restricted to a really narrow ruleset that I didn't find terribly interesting to play with (MLG rules for Halo or instance). but all in all it just... wasn't fun. or competition and I just grew apart.

    Honestly, I do understand this mentality. And I will say it is a sad reality at times.

    People don't like it when a guy goes 30-0 at anything. So, while I still do value competition, I do find myself holding back in social circles at times.

    Going to random, playing with people I know I have no idea how to play with, etc.

    Dragkonias on
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Chen wrote: »
    Does it really take that much time to get good? I'm not talking about world championship level, but good enough to take on random strangers. Learning the rules doesn't take that much effort. You should be good to go once you know how it works.

    There's a difference between "random strangers" and "other people interested enough in the game to bother entering a tournament for it". Even for a random tournament at a game store or something, you'll need to put in a lot of time (certainly more than "knowing the rules") to be competitive.

    a5ehren on
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Chen wrote: »
    Does it really take that much time to get good? I'm not talking about world championship level, but good enough to take on random strangers. Learning the rules doesn't take that much effort. You should be good to go once you know how it works.

    There's a difference between "random strangers" and "other people interested enough in the game to bother entering a tournament for it". Even for a random tournament at a game store or something, you'll need to put in a lot of time (certainly more than "knowing the rules") to be competitive.

    You'd be surprised. I mean honestly, you would be surprised.

    At mean of course at the big tournaments everyone is going to know what and who is the "best" and all the little tactics people have. Doesn't mean they can implement the stuff correctly.

    Dragkonias on
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Page- wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Page- wrote: »
    There are plenty of tournament players who hold down regular jobs, and unless they really want to get something done or they're building up to a coming competition, most people can easily get away with less than an hour a day, or a couple hours every other day and keep their skills at a reasonable level. It's quality over quantity; you learn more, and retain more, playing with better players.

    That's because they've already reached that level of skill - getting to that point is another matter entirely.

    True, but they can reach that point much faster and easier by playing with better players and applying what's learnt.

    I get what you mean, but I think it's less common for a person who has never played the gametype in question to pick it up and devote a bunch of time to getting good for no reason, but people who are even a bit familiar with what they're doing can get into it things relatively easily. I've seen both happen, but the catalyst for the greatest improvement was always getting together with better players and learning from them.

    I kind of addressed this a few pages back when I talked about front-end loaded skills in certain games that people grew up with.

    That's kind of thing I guess - if you didn't grow up playing games that have a strong competitive side, you'll be less inclined to play those once you're old enough to know what's up.

    I've never liked fighting games (and still don't). I always liked to turtle in RTS games, and developers have decided that isn't a valid way to play them anymore so I don't play those (and why I never liked Starcraft and have no interest in SC2). I play FPSes, but I've never gotten past the "OK for a pubbie" level of play. So now I spend most of my time with TBS games (yeah), sports games (can't play competitive unless you glitch like hell), and single-player RPGs :P

    Well, that's cool. I don't think that everyone should be playing competitive games all the time. That's just silly.

    Page- on
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  • eatmosushieatmosushi __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2010
    As a higher tier of competition magic player.... I almost don't want to play anymore because I can't stand not winning.

    It's gut wrenching.

    eatmosushi on
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  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    eatmosushi wrote: »
    As a higher tier of competition magic player.... I almost don't want to play anymore because I can't stand not winning.

    It's gut wrenching.

    I would say card games are another deal altogether.

    I use to be really in TCGs in my younger years but the main two deterrents:

    A. Cost

    B. Rules changing every year

    Really started to grate on my nerves. I still bust out the ol' booster packs with friends every now and then though.

    Dragkonias on
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Yeah, TCGs or CCGs or whatever the kids are calling them these days are a whole different deal. Not just the cost, but the work involved in jumping into a long running game is much more than for getting into a new rts of righting game, and most of it is reading.

    But the cost. I spent so much money on those things when I was a kid. I still have them in a box somewhere, but the games I played are discontinued.

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  • Fig-DFig-D Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I have a big box of 5th edition Magic stuff around here somewhere that I should probably eBay. WoW cards too, but those were a gift and not something I actually played.

    Fig-D on
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  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited July 2010
    eatmosushi wrote: »
    As a higher tier of competition magic player.... I almost don't want to play anymore because I can't stand not winning.

    It's gut wrenching.

    i could never get into high level magic because of the cost

    then again i drafted a lot so i'm somewhat hypocritical

    undeinPirat on
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  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    But drafting is fun.

    Page- on
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  • SmallCaveGamesSmallCaveGames Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    For me as I get older I am looking to gaming as an escape, not another stressful environment. Something leaning towards relaxing, not competitive. Don't get me wrong, when a game like TF2 hooks me, it hooks me hard and I go all the way. But I feel like there are less and less games that appeal to that competitive side of me.

    SmallCaveGames on
  • ChenChen Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Page- wrote: »
    Yeah, TCGs or CCGs or whatever the kids are calling them these days are a whole different deal. Not just the cost, but the work involved in jumping into a long running game is much more than for getting into a new rts of righting game, and most of it is reading.

    But the cost. I spent so much money on those things when I was a kid. I still have them in a box somewhere, but the games I played are discontinued.
    You'd be surprised how far you can get if you have a community to rely on. I borrow cards from people all the time, some of them I'm not even close with. Also, when you buy cards, it's sort of an investment. You can always sell them for minimal loss.

    What I said about knowing the rules applies here as well. Once you know the ins and outs, you have a chance to win. Really, the deterrent is, much like game tournaments, traveling costs.

    Chen on
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  • Golf153Golf153 Registered User
    edited July 2010
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    eatmosushi wrote: »
    As a higher tier of competition magic player.... I almost don't want to play anymore because I can't stand not winning.

    It's gut wrenching.

    I would say card games are another deal altogether.

    I use to be really in TCGs in my younger years but the main two deterrents:

    A. Cost

    B. Rules changing every year

    Really started to grate on my nerves. I still bust out the ol' booster packs with friends every now and then though.

    Don't forget:
    C. Everyone plays only certain decks and it becomes rock, paper, counter spell.

    At least it was like that at most regionals when I went like 10 years ago. There was like 3 to 5 styles that the pros used and everyone else copied. Myself included. Every time I went with something original I got stomped early and quickly. I've noticed the same thing with modern RTS games, everyone plays a certain race a certain popular way at the lower tiers. Only the pros (in RTS) seem to have any skill on expanding the game.

    Golf153 on
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  • Golf153Golf153 Registered User
    edited July 2010
    For me, nothing brings out the competitive spirit for me anymore. From my point of view its the same game I played ten years ago just with better graphics and a few differences. The challenge has gotten old because it got too easy and too mainstream. Sure I've pre-ordered SC2 in the hopes that it will hook me but if it doesn't I'm seriously questioning giving up the ghost that I'm a serious gamer.

    Golf153 on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • JubehJubeh Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Oh also nobody plays the games I want to play. This goes hand in hand with the community option, I guess. But sometimes a game just isn't popular.

    I can get friends to play shadowrun with me for like a week, but then they're back on call of duty.

    I can get friends to play guilty gear with me, but as soon as somebody whips out blazblue my day is over.

    So it turns into this sad thing where you have to go where the competition goes. I hate to say it, but there was a time in my life where I played tekken 5 just because my mall got it and everyone played it. I dislike tekken. You can see how that kind of defeats the entire point when you're competing at games you don't enjoy. Not to say that time was wasted, though, because I met some really cool dudes in the process. A couple of whom I still keep in touch with to this day.

    I know it's impossible, but I wish the fighting game community could get out of the, "only play new games," mentality because some games just got it right.

    Jubeh on
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I don't only play new games. But I know as far as competitive games go I'll usually go to the next one because:

    1. I'm tired of playing the old one.

    2. The new one probably has new characters/features.

    3. It may have fixed problems I had with the old one.

    or in the case of games like MvC2 -> MvC3

    4. The community is way too old and I don't feel like trying to catch up with all the stuff I've missed over the years.

    also

    5. All the characters I like suck.

    Dragkonias on
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Jubeh wrote: »
    Oh also nobody plays the games I want to play. This goes hand in hand with the community option, I guess. But sometimes a game just isn't popular.

    I can get friends to play shadowrun with me for like a week, but then they're back on call of duty.

    I can get friends to play guilty gear with me, but as soon as somebody whips out blazblue my day is over.

    So it turns into this sad thing where you have to go where the competition goes. I hate to say it, but there was a time in my life where I played tekken 5 just because my mall got it and everyone played it. I dislike tekken. You can see how that kind of defeats the entire point when you're competing at games you don't enjoy. Not to say that time was wasted, though, because I met some really cool dudes in the process. A couple of whom I still keep in touch with to this day.

    I know it's impossible, but I wish the fighting game community could get out of the, "only play new games," mentality because some games just got it right.

    I know what that's like. I'm faced now with either SSF4 or Tekken 6, because SC4 is dying down and I still want to play something, even though I don't like either of those games. It's come down to the community, and since I know more Tekken players and get along with them better, I'll probably take that game.

    But a lot of games die down before they need to because people don't organize or try and get something going. This is what happens every time a King of Fighters game is released, and what happened with Virtua Fighter 5. People buy the games, but nobody shows up to tourneys, so the tourneys stop being held and the game dies.

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  • curly haired boycurly haired boy Your Friendly Neighborhood Torgue Dealer Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    it's not the initial investment of time and energy to get good that i mind

    getting good is fun

    staying good is a lot of work with decreasing reward in my experience, the stakes get higher but the payoff gets lower

    curly haired boy on
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  • BTPBTP Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    If you enjoy a game and think it's worthy of competitive play then you shouldn't leave it up to other people. Contact your local scene, and if there's isn't one then try and get something started. If you're taking the time to get good, and if you enjoy competition, then get involved.

    This cannot be stressed more enough. My experiences have shown me that there are plenty of gamers out there who would gather somewhere but can't because no one is organizing such an event. I whole-heartedly recommend that you listen to Episode 9 of the "Wakeup Shoryuken" podcast as it talks about how to build a community. While they somewhat focus on fighting games, there's really no reason it can't apply to any game.

    ---

    Part of me also thinks it's a "generational leap" issue. Back in the days of NES/SNES/N64, there was no problem of getting your friends together for anything multiplayer. Yeah, we were probably kids with a ton of free time, but it was also because it was the only way to do multiplayer. There was no online gaming as there is now. At the same time, if any of your group just got too good at a particular game, the arcades existed to have multiplayer beyond your friends. And it would still be the same experience of gathering around a TV and competing side-by-side. And if you lose, you were more than likely humble about it and politely saying "Good game", even if your winning opponent was doing a "cock-thrusting the air dance" like he's Ace Ventura, especially if there is a crowd around you watching your match.

    Take a look at it now, and split-screen gaming has been greatly reduced in favor of online multiplayer. We may even have a mindset of "Why travel 15 minutes to my buddy's house to play split-screen when we can just hook up online and we each have a full screen, and then we can talk through our headsets?" Travelling requires effort. Playing online requires flipping a couple of switches and then grabbing a beer and a sandwich as you wait for it to set up. If you lose, you wouldn't see your friend doing the Ace Ventura dance, but more importantly there's no one to see you lose and it doesn't cost you another quarter for a rematch because there's no arcades, let alone arcades with the latest games that we're playing now. High scores that showed who was best locally have been replaced with Achievements that you can show off to anyone and everyone.

    Take a person from this "modern" era of gaming and its mindset, throw them into an environment like the arcades where there can be a lot of people watching as you fight your opponent in person, and I wouldn't be surprised if something like this happens more often.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsgRnBazeSY

    .....which goes back into what others have been saying about "I don't want be around the elitist pricks" or whatever has been said so far this thread.

    Gaming is entirely different now, so in a way, the tournaments have to be different too. Years ago, tournaments probably happened at arcades because that's were people naturally gathered for video games anyways. But now, with no arcades, there's nowhere to gather. This makes "community" the problem. It's not that there isn't a community, but rather there is nowhere for the community to gather. So for someone to gather the community, they would need to take it upon themselves to set up the place to gather. This makes "time" the problem, and perhaps "money" as well. And if you don't do a good job with the organization, you add "sucking" to the problem as well.

    Jubeh wrote: »
    I know it's impossible, but I wish the fighting game community could get out of the, "only play new games," mentality because some games just got it right.

    What you said about the mentality just isn't true at all.
    Page- wrote:
    But a lot of games die down before they need to because people don't organize or try and get something going. This is what happens every time a King of Fighters game is released, and what happened with Virtua Fighter 5. People buy the games, but nobody shows up to tourneys, so the tourneys stop being held and the game dies.

    That either means not enough people picked it up to make even the best tournaments worthwhile to have, or the tournaments weren't advertised/organized well enough to be appealing to potential contestants, to be able to survive multiple tournaments. But it's not impossible to bring those games back, at least locally. Seriously, check out that podcast.

    That being said, I will be pissed if Tatsunoko. vs Capcom dies "soonish".

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  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    The better goal might be to find a level where you've made enough friends that the plateau doesn't become a problem. As long as you can keep playing at a reasonable level.

    Page- on
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  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    i would play magic competitively if it didn't cost infinity dollars
    also i would play in blazblue tournaments but i'm not sure there even are any in hawaii, i wouldn't be able to use the 360 controller, and also the online is so good there's just not much reason to bother

    Big Red Tie on
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  • reddeathreddeath Registered User
    edited July 2010
    i would play magic competitively if it didn't cost infinity dollars
    also i would play in blazblue tournaments but i'm not sure there even are any in hawaii, i wouldn't be able to use the 360 controller, and also the online is so good there's just not much reason to bother

    Not quite infinity dollars, but I have very, very fond memories of hocking the magic card collection I accrued in washington state around early 94, with nothing but sternly saved lunch money, which turned into a $2000 down payment on my car.

    reddeath on
  • simulacrumsimulacrum Call me Remi Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I think it's because I'm shy, and a rather poor loser. Feeling like I got stomped just makes me furious.

    Pretty much this.

    simulacrum on
  • cr0wcr0w Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2010
    I don't play competitive gaming at all, not even on XBL or PSN, because I simply don't like 99% of the people who are into the hobbies I enjoy. Be it gaming, horror movies, collectibles, whatever...I'm into these things because I enjoy them, whereas the vast majority of people I share interests with seem to only be into them to pick apart and bitch about everything they possibly can. I prefer to enjoy my hobbies myself and on my own terms without having to worry about dealing with or listening to other peoples' negativity. Plus I'm not a competitive person at all.

    cr0w on
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  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Yeah, I built up my Halo 2 community while I was stationed on Guam, posting fliers on my ship and drumming up interest in a tournament scene while underway. Hell, my last tournament (the team-based objective one) wasn't even planned. I was a little burned out and most of my team had moved on, but I kept getting calls and emails about "when the next tournament was going to be this underway". The things is though, not a lot of us could get Live and if we did, we're on a fucking island in the middle of the Pacific on the other side of the dateline. Time and latency were a big issue so we played Local games.

    Nocren on
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  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    For me it's time and money, and when I have both I put more effort into the local fighting game I play. When I don't, I ease off a bit.

    The real bitch is that the community is fantastic so it's annoying not to have the time and money. Heh.

    Morninglord on
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  • Stand, Killer QueenStand, Killer Queen Registered User
    edited July 2010
    simulacrum wrote: »
    I think it's because I'm shy, and a rather poor loser. Feeling like I got stomped just makes me furious.

    Pretty much this.

    I'm with this. Only replace "poor loser" with something along the lines of "I couldn't do it anyway, I shouldn't bother" even if I really like the game.

    Meaning I never actually GET better just by not participating. Thus making it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Painful, really.

    Stand, Killer Queen on
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  • VarelseVarelse Registered User
    edited July 2010
    I used to run an online 8v8 league for Operation Flashpoint. Not only scheduling matches, but also scripting and designing all the missions from the ground up. I also played with a squad in the league. It was some of the best team-based gaming I've ever experienced in my life. But to have to play games on a schedule as a hobby is kind of taxing, especially when everything else in your life is on a schedule (was in college at the time) so I eventually burned out. I would not hesitate to do something like that professionally, but I would never do it for free again. So my question is, how can I, as a league organizer, generate income in a practical fashion?

    My problem with competition in many games is that, at the highest level of competition, the strategy is too bland. There are a few options for what to do, and the task is to pursue your cookie-cutter strategy while identifying and countering the opponent's cookie-cutter strategy. To me it's not a game anymore. Guild Wars, however, was an excellent example of strategic freedom when I played it (before Factions came out). Of course there were 'flavor of the month' builds that would dominate primetime, but there were also some really creative and skilled groups that came up with bizarre builds that dominated the flavor people. You don't get that in every game. I still love GW but it would steal my soul if I installed it again.

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  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    There is a desperate need for good organizers in fighting game communities, though it's not likely you'd do more than break even if you couldn't attract sponsors and set up a large venue, and even then it wouldn't be a lot.

    For FPS and RTS most tourneys are online, and free or only require a nominal entry fee, until you get large, annual events where tens of thousands are thrown around. You could try organizing a league or online tourney, but unless you could attract sponsors it's not likely you'd make money. At the level where you'd be getting enough players to get sponsors you wouldn't be doing it on your own anymore.

    However, a fair number of online games, especially on pc, are angling for an "e-sports" type label, which means companies are more willing and able to sponsor and support online tourneys. I know a guy who organized a Command and Conquer 3 (or was it 2? Whichever came out BEFORE the last one) online league and he got lots of support from the developers. He spent some free time setting up, casting, and streaming matches, but he didn't make money doing it, and then he dropped it for SC2 once the new Command and Conquer game was revealed, because it was terrible and nobody wanted to play it.

    Depending on how active things are near you, it's possible that you could set up a regular lan event, with various games, that could net you some cash. But that's a lot of work for just one person and would take a ton of advertising and canvasing.

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  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Mostly, because I don't particularly enjoy competition, as a matter of fact. It's one thing to fool around - but to get to great skill levels and push yourself, you need to actually care to win, and want to beat your opposition. I don't care enough about winning, and I feel bad about making others lose, and so I'll forever suck, because I honestly, simply, won't put my full attention in a versus game - a part of me doesn't even actually want to win :P.

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  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    That's understandable, but the rewards for getting better at a skilled game are more than just being able to beat others. Being able to do things that couldn't be done, or are hard to do. Building up that muscle memory. It's nice to just be good at a game, to know what's going on and what to do, whether you choose to take advantage or not.

    There are often groups of players within a competitive community that only want to prove themselves through technical feats. Trick jumps and combo videos are common outlets for them, because while fancy movement and complicated combos can be very impressive to watch and do, they usually have no business in a more competitive setting, since there are simpler and more efficient ways to do the same things.

    What goes on in these two movies is about as far from useful, in a playing-to-win sense, as you could possibly get. But it takes lots of practice and a fair bit of talent to pull it off.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVZ3B4sidro

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z-LP-6yGvg

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  • mspencermspencer Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I'm sure there's a truly elite level of Tic-Tac-Toe player. They've memorized all of the board positions, they can play to a perfect tie game never taking more than one second to make their move.

    Nothing against them, but I have no interest in reaching that level.

    I think people who play games attribute meaning to their play according to a few different motivating influences.

    Some play is meaningful because the game has intrinsic meaning: gameplay offers new insights into a plot or a character, or even just a scenario like cops vs robbers. While the information on offer is still new to us the play still has meaning, but once we've learned what the author is trying to teach this doesn't have as much meaning.

    Some play is meaningful because of social influences. If all of my friends were terribly obsessed with speed-Tic-Tac-Toe then I might be motivated to try to learn that as well, even though without my friends' influence I would find it nauseatingly boring and quit. Mastery of this type of play offers opportunities for unique social interactions -- weekly Forza races, nightly Left 4 Dead 2 pub stomps, etc.

    There are other things that give meaning to play as well.

    I think in the case of social competitive play, either a strong affiliation with the game would drive membership in a social circle, or a strong affiliation with a social circle would drive interest in a game. Do I look at the people who go to EVO or who attend competitive gaming events and think "I want to count these people among my friends" and so try to reach a competitive skill level with a game? Do I find a game clicks for me more easily than it does for my friends, leading my friends to no-longer want to play that game with me, leading me to want to go find new friends instead of playing a different game?

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  • Ragnar DragonfyreRagnar Dragonfyre Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    The year that Soul Calibur IV was at EVO I really wanted to get involved into the local competitive scene. I had no aspirations to go all the way to EVO, but I felt my skill level was definitely high enough to compete among the best in my area. My group of friends and I that regularly practice really wanted to play against some new people in an offline settings.

    The 8wayrun community had a couple tournaments in the Toronto area, but I was never able to make it. They were always scheduled on days I worked. At the time I was still only part time at my current job and didn't have paid vacation. I just couldn't justify the net cost of taking an unpaid day off. Not to mention I needed those vacation days for my actual planned vacation.

    It was just bad timing that I could never get involved. If Soul Calibur V ever comes out, I'm definitely gonna make sure I get involved then.

    Also, in the past I was offered a spot on a sponsored Counter Strike team. Problem was that they had LAN gatherings in Toronto and I just couldn't convince my parents to take me. They didn't want me to be meeting strangers off the internet. I wonder what may have come of that if my parents weren't so wary of the internet. I used to be pretty fucking good at CS.

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  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Man you still never showed up. It's not like we avoided you. We never stopped playing offline, just online. But if life gets in your way, that's cool. It happens.

    In fact, there's still one more chance, though it's a long shot. In September there's a big Soulcalibur tourney near Boston, and a bunch of us are taking the trip. It's a weekend deal, though, so if you want to come with us it's leaving on Thursday afternoon and getting back Monday. If you could get there on your own the tourney is just Saturday and Sunday. Probably not practical for you with such little warning, but I'll toss it out there anyway.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueUjVlRYHLs

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  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Page- wrote: »
    But drafting is fun.

    i would go to FNM if it wasn't so far away
    but whenever my friends get packs/boxes we draft

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