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Sonic 4; Now with more Jumping.

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Posts

  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? peach treesRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The fan-made one doesn't have a homing attack

    Therefore it is better

    Olivaw on
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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Sonic looks like a lobotomy recipient when you tell him to look up

    joshofalltrades on
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    青!
  • HtR-LaserHtR-Laser Registered User
    edited October 2010
    The only problem I see with the fan remix is that its animation isn't exaggerated enough, and there are no facial expressions. Sonic is just kind of running around with his face like :| the whole time.

    HtR-Laser on
  • IgortIgort Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Olivaw wrote: »
    The fan-made one doesn't have a homing attack

    Therefore it is better

    Dumb opinion is dumb.

    Considering Sonic 4 was specifically designed with the homing attack in mind, this should not be something that hinges the opinion of the game.

    Igort on
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? peach treesRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Igort wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    The fan-made one doesn't have a homing attack

    Therefore it is better

    Dumb opinion is dumb.

    Considering Sonic 4 was specifically designed with the homing attack in mind, this should not be something that hinges the opinion of the game.

    I don't like that it was designed specifically with the homing attack in mind

    Olivaw on
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    Never forget.
  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The homing attack is such a non-issue

    it's basically like having a weaker version of the fire shield's double jump from S3&K available to you at all times

    Speed Racer on
  • EggPuppetEggPuppet Registered User
    edited October 2010
    wow, that fan remix is really impressive. If I didn't know which was which, and I saw it side-by-side with Sonic 4, I'd definitely think the remix was the professional product.

    EggPuppet on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    No.

    The homing attack bad for multiple reasons:

    1. It doesn't home very well. There have been several times when the targeting reticule has been on something, I have pressed the button to home, and it has not successfully homed in on the thing.
    2. It exists because the controls aren't good enough for you to accurately target the things without it. In Sonic 1-3 and Knuckles, you had very precise control over your movement, so you could (if you were good enough) bounce from one enemy to the next in some places. With the homing attack, instead of platforming, you just press the button several times (with a huge window). The fire shield you still had to manually aim with.
    3. It's ridiculously over used. How come every single level in the game has the same set of those floating enemies for you to do the same thing over and over again. It's not at all optional (like the fire shield).

    LewieP on
  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    wait what

    most people have been complaining that you can control sonic more precisely than you should be able to in Sonic 4. In the Genesis games you're much more of a slave to momentum. Sonic 4 gives you the option to cancel your momentum basically at will.

    I agree with number 1 though, if it were up to me it wouldn't auto-target at all, it would just be a horizontal double-jump. Actually my big problem with it is that he uncurls at the end, I've had situations where I lock on and do it but then he uncurls before reaching the enemy and gets it. Even so, once I got used to it I thought it worked great and felt natural to use.

    also I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed that you can beat the entire game without once using the homing attack. I think TSR said something to that effect? Even if that's not true, complaining that it's used too much is like complaining that jumping used too much. It's a core mechanic of the game, of course you're going to see lots of situations where the game encourages and/or requires you to do it.

    I feel like a lot of the complaints would go away if people stopped demanding the game be compared to the genesis titles. To be fair, Sega themselves are inviting the comparison, but I think if you look at the game on its own merits it changes from some hideous aberration into a well-done, fast-paced, super fun game that has some flaws but nothing that can't be forgiven in light of all the things it does well.

    Obviously that's just my opinion and I know I'm in the minority, but whatevs.

    Speed Racer on
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The Fire Shield was only good for the first boss anyway, after that it's the lighting/magnetic one all the way.

    Or the bubble, which was awesome if you had a turbo controller.

    bububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububub
    bububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububub
    bububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububub
    bububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububoo

    SmokeStacks on
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  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I like the fire shield just because you can double-tap the jump button and bam you are moving fast

    the other two are good though

    Speed Racer on
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? peach treesRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    LewieP wrote: »
    No.

    The homing attack bad for multiple reasons:

    1. It doesn't home very well. There have been several times when the targeting reticule has been on something, I have pressed the button to home, and it has not successfully homed in on the thing.
    2. It exists because the controls aren't good enough for you to accurately target the things without it. In Sonic 1-3 and Knuckles, you had very precise control over your movement, so you could (if you were good enough) bounce from one enemy to the next in some places. With the homing attack, instead of platforming, you just press the button several times (with a huge window). The fire shield you still had to manually aim with.
    3. It's ridiculously over used. How come every single level in the game has the same set of those floating enemies for you to do the same thing over and over again. It's not at all optional (like the fire shield).

    Yes

    All of these things

    LewieP you have lived up to your mother's standard this day

    for once

    edit: actually the second point should be "the homing attack was introduced in the 3D games solely because they could not develop accurate and responsive controls for a 3D space and bringing it into a 2D space where it was never needed in the first place is asinine"

    But other than that good job

    Olivaw on
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    Never forget.
  • RestartRestart Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I sometimes like how it helps you get to the ground faster, or gives you a little extra momentum. But I totally agree with the enemies thing, especially the ones in a row. It's just a boring sequence of pressing A, slowing down the gameplay.

    I'd like it was like the fire attack, just one attack per jump if you really want to get that momentum.

    Heck, they should just bring back the shields.

    Restart on
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  • HeleorHeleor SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    There was a way to just bounce through those chains of enemies without the homing attack, that ended up being much faster. I've never been able to pull it off on purpose, though.

    Heleor on
  • President RexPresident Rex Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The Fire Shield was only good for the first boss anyway, after that it's the lighting/magnetic one all the way.

    Or the bubble, which was awesome if you had a turbo controller.

    bububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububub
    bububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububub
    bububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububub
    bububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububububoo

    Or in Lava Reef where you'll essentially be invincible (or using it in Carnival Night through the booster tubes to try and break the camera).

    President Rex on
  • agoajagoaj Now is the time of my revengeRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Heleor wrote: »
    There was a way to just bounce through those chains of enemies without the homing attack, that ended up being much faster. I've never been able to pull it off on purpose, though.

    I think you have to use home when you're not locked on, so you just get the momentum and fly through the guys.

    agoaj on
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  • IgortIgort Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    agoaj wrote: »
    Heleor wrote: »
    There was a way to just bounce through those chains of enemies without the homing attack, that ended up being much faster. I've never been able to pull it off on purpose, though.

    I think you have to use home when you're not locked on, so you just get the momentum and fly through the guys.

    You can just jump, as long as you his the first one Sonic will just bounce through them. It's quite fun.

    Igort on
  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Oh cool, when you adjust for obviously hacked scores I'm #101 on Splash Hill 3 time attack. I can definitely shave a second or two off to crack the top 100.

    Speed Racer on
  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I played through the demo and I hated it. The movement / speed of Sonic is just all wrong. As a huge fan of the Genesis era games, I am extremely disappointed.

    If this were a new franchise, I could maybe live with the physics of it, but it is Sonic and should be fast and fun and definitely not slow and floaty. I absolutely hate this game.

    man okay

    if the demo of the game didn't convince you to buy it then fine

    but don't say you "absolutely hate it" on the basis of playing the first level

    that is silliness

    That's not silly - the whole point of a demo is to allow you to make a judgment on the game as a whole.

    jclast on
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  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    no it's not

    the point of a demo is to give you a small taste to try and entice you into playing more

    full judgments shouldn't be made on first impressions.

    Speed Racer on
  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    no it's not

    the point of a demo is to give you a small taste to try and entice you into playing more

    full judgments shouldn't be made on first impressions.

    If the point is to get me to play more then it is also to make me like it. If they want me to like then it needs to be good. If they can't put "good" in the demo why would I assume they're hiding it in the full product? When I'm considering buying something I'll make a full judgment on the demo every time.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "I don't like that game" or "That game is not very good" based solely on the demo. Demos are supposed to be representative of the full product. And the Sonic 4 demo is. Gameplay isn't wildly different from the first zone to the last in any Sonic game that I've ever played. Sure, it's harder at the end, but you're doing the same things. If you sat down to play Sonic 2 and decided you didn't like it based on the first zone I wouldn't expect you to play it to completion before deciding whether it was a good game or not. You already know it's bad - because you don't like it and don't want to play it anymore.

    jclast on
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  • Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I think one level of a sonic game is pretty much all you need to know if you want to play more of it or not

    I absolutely do not.

    Kuribo's Shoe on
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  • Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    that said, the demo may have benefitted from throwing a level from another world in there

    but for me sonic's movement and animations are going to suck no matter what level I play, so I'm good.

    Kuribo's Shoe on
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  • Hotlead JunkieHotlead Junkie Registered User
    edited October 2010
    I think one level of a sonic game is pretty much all you need to know if you want to play more of it or not

    I absolutely do not.

    You know, I viewed that first line of your post and didn't see the bottom because it was below the bottom of my screen and actually agreed, then saw your line below that when I scrolled down.

    Case in point, I played the Sonic 4 demo, felt like a chore and wasn't interested in buying the game after one act.

    About 10 mins ago I tried that Sonic remake fan project demo thing and had a huge grin on my face during the first act, and also enjoyed the whole thing.

    If my computer ran that fan project smoother I'd probably buy that if I could, but the Sonic 4 demo on the 360 ran perfectley and I wasn't impressed at all.

    Hotlead Junkie on
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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Is there a good description or video of that one puzzle? I'm stuck.

    Cantido on
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  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Cantido wrote: »
    Is there a good description or video of that one puzzle? I'm stuck.
    You basically have to activate the horizontal platform with a short delay after the vertical one so the vertical one retracts before the horizontal one does.

    maximumzero on
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  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Cantido wrote: »
    Is there a good description or video of that one puzzle? I'm stuck.

    You can use up and down to move the barrel.

    LewieP on
  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I'm surprised so many people got hung up on the torches. All it takes is a little experimentation.

    Speed Racer on
  • BlitzAce1981BlitzAce1981 Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Or you can just go Super Sonic and skip the whole thing.

    BlitzAce1981 on
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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    LewieP wrote: »
    Cantido wrote: »
    Is there a good description or video of that one puzzle? I'm stuck.

    You can use up and down to move the barrel.

    CarnivalNightZone1.jpg

    Cantido on
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  • Hotlead JunkieHotlead Junkie Registered User
    edited October 2010
    Was I the only one who got incredibly stuck in Sonic 2 back in the day regarding the pinball launcher springs in Casino Night zone where you have to hold jump to charge it?

    Hotlead Junkie on
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  • ben0207ben0207 Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Is this a good place to rant about Sonic 4?

    I don't care. Sonic 4 is a load of shit.

    I did a little experiment over the weekend.

    First I played a few levels of Sonic 1 (MD). It's a charming fun platformer which feels quite fast but rarely uncontrollable. The graphics are dated but convey enough information and are never too busy. The music is memorable. The bosses are fair but challenging. The levels are not especially large, but are certainly a good enough length to get their point across, and rarely rely on gimmicks.

    I was pleased.

    Next I played Sonic 1 (Master System). It's a charming fun platformer which feels quite fast but rarely uncontrollable. The graphics are dated but convey enough information and are never too busy. The music is memorable. The bosses are fair but challenging. The levels are not especially large, but are certainly a good enough length to get their point across, and rarely rely on gimmicks.

    I was still very pleased.

    Then I played Sonic CD (Mega CD version). I never played this as a kid, and only recently managed to get hold of it for PS2. It's a charming fun platformer which feels quite fast but rarely uncontrollable. The graphics are dated but convey enough information and are never too busy. The music is memorable. The bosses are fair but challenging. The levels are not especially large, but are certainly a good enough length to get their point across, and rarely rely on gimmicks.

    Another win on my safari of Sonic games.

    Next I tried Sonic Adventure (DC version on XBLA). It's a charming fun 3D platformer which feels quite fast but is only occasionally uncontrollable. The graphics are dated but convey enough information and are never too busy. The music is memorable but dire. The bosses are fair but challenging. The levels are not especially large, but are certainly a good enough length to get their point across, and rarely rely on gimmicks.

    Yet another win on my nostalgiawank trip.

    And then I played Sonic 4. Oh dear. Just from the get go Sonic looks like he's been crudely pasted onto the level. The levels themselves look like Donkey Kong Country bullshit with all this prerendered shit everywhere (or maybe it's properly rendered - it's still shit). The movement is wrong. Just wrong. I can't even specifically work out how or why, but it's just not right. The animation is fucking dreadful. The bosses are either painfully easy (Green Hill or whatever) or massively unfair (Labyrinth). There are ridiculous fucking difficulty spikes, like those rotating cards in the casino level, or that stupid fucking lantern puzzle. Get this Silent Hill bullshit out of my Sonic, thank you. The homing attack is at best unnecessary and at worst (most of the time) a crutch for some clearly untalented level designers. It's too short, except for the massive padding
    The last boss level starts with you doing all the old bosses in a row. No changes, just timewasting

    This isn't some jaded old Sonic fan saying "they changed it, now it sucks". Because Super Meat Boy and N and New Super Mario all prove that you can do a great 2D platformer these days that does something a bit different but is still great. This is just... shit. I wish I could get my money back, as I certainly regret instabuying it based on nostalgia and the claims of a few people in this thread.

    ben0207 on
  • CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    ben0207 wrote: »
    There are ridiculous fucking difficulty spikes, like those rotating cards in the casino level, or that stupid fucking lantern puzzle. Get this Silent Hill bullshit out of my Sonic, thank you.

    I... what? What does lighting torches have to do with Silent Hill?

    Cherrn on
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  • BlitzAce1981BlitzAce1981 Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Given the apparent split between people who like it and people who don't, SEGA should've called it Sonic Marmite.

    BlitzAce1981 on
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  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Cherrn wrote: »
    ben0207 wrote: »
    There are ridiculous fucking difficulty spikes, like those rotating cards in the casino level, or that stupid fucking lantern puzzle. Get this Silent Hill bullshit out of my Sonic, thank you.

    I... what? What does lighting torches have to do with Silent Hill?

    It's a puzzle.

    It's not only a puzzle, but it's a puzzle that stops you dead in your tracks, perhaps for minutes, while you jump around to figure it out... in a game that is supposed to be based solely around high speed and platforming. It's weird. Imagine if you were playing a racing game when all of a sudden you had a QTE.

    I'm sure someone will pop in with a "Well, actually...", but I can't remember any other Sonic games having anything like it, barring the infamous Sonic 3 barrel.

    SmokeStacks on
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  • Psycho Internet HawkPsycho Internet Hawk Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Given the apparent split between people who like it and people who don't, SEGA should've called it Sonic Marmite.

    It's pretty astounding, really. I can't remember the last time I saw a game produce such a variety of responses.

    Honestly, I think if they had called it anything other than Sonic 4, the responses would be much better.

    Psycho Internet Hawk on
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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I'm sure someone will pop in with a "Well, actually...", but I can't remember any other Sonic games having anything like it, barring the infamous Sonic 3 barrel.

    Sonic 3 had the level that took place inside a pyramid. You had to grab levers to keep the lights on or ghosts came out and killed you.

    joshofalltrades on
    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Cherrn wrote: »
    ben0207 wrote: »
    There are ridiculous fucking difficulty spikes, like those rotating cards in the casino level, or that stupid fucking lantern puzzle. Get this Silent Hill bullshit out of my Sonic, thank you.

    I... what? What does lighting torches have to do with Silent Hill?

    It's a puzzle.

    It's not only a puzzle, but it's a puzzle that stops you dead in your tracks, perhaps for minutes, while you jump around to figure it out... in a game that is supposed to be based solely around high speed and platforming. It's weird. Imagine if you were playing a racing game when all of a sudden you had a QTE.

    I'm sure someone will pop in with a "Well, actually...", but I can't remember any other Sonic games having anything like it, barring the infamous Sonic 3 barrel.

    Big chunks of Marble Zone involved you standing still waiting for the lava flow to carry you to wherever for what certainly felt like minutes at a time.

    Salvation122 on
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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The labyrinth boss was unfair? Yous' a wimp! I beat him on the second try!

    Cantido on
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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Given the apparent split between people who like it and people who don't, SEGA should've called it Sonic Marmite.

    It's pretty astounding, really. I can't remember the last time I saw a game produce such a variety of responses.

    Honestly, I think if they had called it anything other than Sonic 4, the responses would be much better.

    I'm actually in the middle. It's certainly not bad and I found it a little enjoyable at times, but the visuals, music and physics just feel off.

    And your probably right, naming it Sonic 4 raised expectations sky-high.

    cloudeagle on
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