I'm fairly new to this so please forgive me if I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'm trying to get an idea of when the best time to send a scout out is. The impression I get is it should be fairly soon...like when I'm at around 8 to 10 collectors, but the problem that I'm having is I arrive at the villain's base and what I'm looking at doesn't really have meaning. I generally see collectors and maybe a gateway, but its so early that I can't really get a good idea of where the opponent is heading. Is this because I just need to learn all the standard openings or is it because I'm just scouting too early?
Every. Single. Time. I've run through the qualifying matches, I've gotten gold. I've done it what, six times now with all the restarts?
Of course this means I've gotten worse or people are better. My phase2/release gold is effectively a silver from the first setup...
My loss in qualifying was against a terran who ended up 4/5 in gold with me. I ten pooled, found his wall with a maurader shooting, and switched to mutas. Destroyed most of his scv's before he managed to switch hard to marines. He was five rax at that point, all with reactor and (a minute later)+1 weap. I should have done bane, but went roaches and couldn't get enough out before he just wore me down with rine waves.
should have done banebust instead of muta when I hit the wall
dumb question... about how many scv's should I make in a normal 3v3 game. I love to play as tarran and I have a hard time figuring out a good balance of workers. If I make too few i cant make any units due to lack of resourses... and if I make too many I cant make any units due too lack of available food.
What's a 6pool? I keep hearing about it and I play zerg mostly, so I feel inadequate.
Building a Spawning Pool with your 6th drone (aka one of your starting drones). It's an all in rush that sometimes works, depending on the map or the player. Essentially, after it's done, you make 6-8 zerglings and send them to kill the opponent asap.
The good thing is, there are common knowledge counters to the 6 pool rush:
Terran: Wall in with a barracks and some supply depots - important to keep in mind that the zerglings can be turned into banelings and break through the supply later.
Protoss: Build a gateway (10 supply) and a pylon with one or two spaces between them. Chronoboost two zealots and have them hold position.
Zerg: Depending on the size of the map, build either a 13 or 14 pool and then erect a spine crawler in the mineral line. It'll dissuade the opponent from attacking (or lose all those zerglings if he does) and weaken his economy considerably.
The problem with this is, even if you scout on 8 (I generally do) you're not going to scout the six pool until after the timing for a 10-gate. I pretty much always open 12/13 gate and I'm usually just dropping the gate by the time my scouting probe reaches the opponent. The good news is you can easily repel it by walling off with several probes and chronoboosting out the first zealot.
My point is, while you're right that the 10-gate counters a six pool, you pretty much have to plan on opening with it since you can't scout and open with it as a reaction to what your opponent is doing. Well, unless you scout with one of your first probes. :P
This is a real problem - basically just assume that on very small maps where you could face a 6pool rush you need to take some measures to prepare for one before you even scout. If you can beat back the initial rush with minimal damage though, the zerg player is at a pretty big disadvantage economically.
When/how is the best way to scout Terran as zerg? Later on I don't mind throwing a sacraficial overlord, but early game losing a single overlord really sucks, and most decent players have a wall up pretty quick.
Very. He was all marauder w/ hellion drone roasters at the time though. He switched so fast to rines I was shocked.
Then there were so many rines everywhere I feel like I got zerged.
You pretty much need to always be ready for massed marines, all they have to do is have some reactors lying around to switch the barracks to and they can pump them out like nobodies business.
Very. He was all marauder w/ hellion drone roasters at the time though. He switched so fast to rines I was shocked.
Then there were so many rines everywhere I feel like I got zerged.
How many bases was he on? Did you watch the replay? If you killed most of his SCVs and he still managed to pump out a crapload of Marines, he might've had an expansion. I don't think you can even sustain 5 Reactor Barracks off one base.
I am still learning the ins and outs of all the units and upgrades and whatnot, and could use some pointers. Mainly I don't really know where to go after building a couple barracks. Usually I go for a factory and then the air base (not savvy on the names yet), making my armies consist of mainly marauders, marines, and vikings.
Very. He was all marauder w/ hellion drone roasters at the time though. He switched so fast to rines I was shocked.
Then there were so many rines everywhere I feel like I got zerged.
How many bases was he on? Did you watch the replay? If you killed most of his SCVs and he still managed to pump out a crapload of Marines, he might've had an expansion. I don't think you can even sustain 5 Reactor Barracks off one base.
it wasn't sustained until later. He initially just pumped out enough to get the mutas while I was getting his expansion.
After that (should have done it during... sigh) I expanded twice, but lost a lot of drones to more hellions and didn't get enough roaches fast enough.
From the replay:
There were lots of ways I could have won. Grr. There was only one marauder when I got to his wall, might have been able to take it down. instead of wasting a minute switching to mutas, I could have even just massed lings and waited for him to march out. When I did get mutas, I went in too fast (with only 8) and gave away my air advantage before I could completely wipe him with it. Main lesson for me: He didn't know about the tech, so wait for the hammer blow against an all ground terran. Mutas are too counterable if given any time. Also, medivacs are mean.
I'm fairly new to this so please forgive me if I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'm trying to get an idea of when the best time to send a scout out is. The impression I get is it should be fairly soon...like when I'm at around 8 to 10 collectors, but the problem that I'm having is I arrive at the villain's base and what I'm looking at doesn't really have meaning. I generally see collectors and maybe a gateway, but its so early that I can't really get a good idea of where the opponent is heading. Is this because I just need to learn all the standard openings or is it because I'm just scouting too early?
There are two purposes to scouting. Making sure you're not about to die, and figuring out what paths your opponent is likely to follow.
For terran, I look for progress on his initial barracks, whether or not he's gotten gas, whether or not he's upgrading to an orbital command, and what he does with the first barracks (marine, tech lab, reactor). A completed barracks already producing something means he's cutting economy to be aggressive. Not getting gas means either a very aggressive mass marine push, a mass marine-secured quick expand, or he's an idiot. A tech lab can either mean a Reaper, or Marauders. I like to assume Reaper. A reactor might mean he's intending to go straight for fast hellions via building swap, or just has a unique way of building an army.
For protoss, I look for whether the second building is a cybercore or a Gateway, progress on first Gateway, number of pylons, whether they've got gas, and where chronoboost is being spent. If you see 2 Gateways and no gas, or a single Gateway with no cyber core up and chrono being spent on it, you can assume heavy zealot pressure in the near future. Gateway, Cybercore, then chrono on the Gateway means fast stalker. Chrono on the Cybercore means fast warpgates. Saving chronoboost on the Nexus and not boosting probes means a more aggressive posture. Saved chronoboost + no chronoboost on Cybercore usually screams void rays to me.
For zerg, I look for progress on the spawning pool, number of drones, and whether they have gas. If the pool is done and eggs are present, assume a 10 pool or other very aggressive build. Same if workers seem low for there being a pool down. If they have a finished gas up and running and pool isn't completed, they're either getting ling speed or a fast lair typically. But you can't rule out banelings or roaches. I have the most trouble scouting zerg until they start building whatever tech building it is they're using.
Take all this with a grain of salt, of course. It could just be you're playing someone with an odd (dumb) preference. I've seen plenty of people chronoboost out Zealots only to leave them in their base. 3 Rax, then not attack or expand. 8 pool, then make 6 zerglings and tech up. It's still good to be in the habit of scouting, so that when you're eventually playing competent people who will make reliably good decisions, and you have the experience to recognize the possibilities of what they're doing, you'll already be accustomed to it.
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MaratastikJust call me Mara, please!Registered Userregular
I'm fairly new to this so please forgive me if I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'm trying to get an idea of when the best time to send a scout out is. The impression I get is it should be fairly soon...like when I'm at around 8 to 10 collectors, but the problem that I'm having is I arrive at the villain's base and what I'm looking at doesn't really have meaning. I generally see collectors and maybe a gateway, but its so early that I can't really get a good idea of where the opponent is heading. Is this because I just need to learn all the standard openings or is it because I'm just scouting too early?
I always scout with the probe that builds my first pylon. Some wait until they drop gateway, but I prefer to do it on the pylon. With that initial scouting probe, you want to see what his opening is: is he going for early pressure or is he building an economy. By absolute biggest concern is checking for a rush. Things to watch out for:
Zerg: Look for the spawning pool. If there isn't one, go and check expansions to see if he early expanded. If there is a spawning pool, check its progress. Is it finished? He six pooled you and is about to hit you hard with zerglings, so wall off. Is it more than halfway finished? Expect early pressure, but you should have a zealot out in time if you chronoboost. Did he just drop it? You don't need to worry about any immediate pressure. Keep that probe running around until he has a queen or zerglings out.
Protoss: Check the progress on his gateway and check for gas. Is there a forge but no gateway? Possibly a cannon rush, but not necessarily. Does he have gas up? He's probably not going to zealot rush then. Keep that probe running around until he places that second building: THIS IS KEY: is he going to two gate opening or building a cyber core? If he went two gate, is he using chronoboosts on the gateway? This means he's getting zealots out to rush you as quickly as possible. Either wall off or decide if you'll try to match him unit for unit. If he has two gates up and no gas he's going to hit you fast and hard with a never ending stream of zealots. If he has two gates up and gas. Expect a quick zealot rush but he is preparing for a transition to cyber core tech and will probably drop the cyber core during the initial rush. If he built a gate with gas and a cyber core then you don't need to worry about any immediate rush. Is there nothing in his base? Well be very suspicious because he just proxied you, or he is terribad.
Terran: Again, check the timing on the first barracks. If it is finished, or nearly finished, expect some form of early harassment. Is he walling off? If not, I would consider flooding zerglings or zealots into his base if you are zerg or protoss to punish his negligence. Very important: keep that probing running around to see what kind of attachment he builds and what is the first unit that pops out. If he just gets an initial marine, don't expect any super early aggression. If the barracks is finished when you get there and is building a tech lab. Expect either reapers or a very early early maurader push. Keep that probe running around so you know which he's going for. If there is no barracks, then he is proxy reaper rushing you or is just terribad.
If any of the races have early double gas expect some kind of tech rush. Your not in immediate danger but you better start preparing for quick void rays, etc.
This is just the broadest knowledge you can pull from the intial scout. The higher skill, the more information you can pull. My biggest focus with my initial scout is to find out if he's going for early aggression or not and I feel that is the most important thing to know. After that, I usually get an early observer and that's went I scout out his army composition, tech, etc.
I'm hearing there's lots of terran now so I'm thinking of switching to zerg when I get my copy in next week. Going to check out some VODs and such but anyone have a run down of the basic BOs and such? Differences between the pool and FE mostly
I'm hearing there's lots of terran now so I'm thinking of switching to zerg when I get my copy in next week. Going to check out some VODs and such but anyone have a run down of the basic BOs and such? Differences between the pool and FE mostly
:?: Why would this make you want to switch to zerg? LOL, Banelings?
anyone got a replay of a 2v2 where a terran goes straight to factories and it works against rush? Having a hard time seeing if it is possible anymore. Keep losing to mass zeals + something else or mass something early and getting overwhelmed (even with choke etc.).
building swap? So i can build a reactor on a baracks, move it and put a factory on it?
Thats just crazy.
So in theory I could build a racks, build a reactor while building a second racks, immediately lift off when it finishes, land next to it and build a second reactor all while my second racks is still going, so I have two racks+reactors a bit quicker...
edit: just checked the build times, doesnt make sense for racks, but swapping in a factory could be useful.
very common thing to do is if you are going for a MMM (marine, marauder, medivac) build is to build your factory, start the reactor on the factory and your starport around the same time
timing is such that both the reactor and the starport will finish almost concurrently, making it so you can build 2 medivacs right away
I'm hearing there's lots of terran now so I'm thinking of switching to zerg when I get my copy in next week. Going to check out some VODs and such but anyone have a run down of the basic BOs and such? Differences between the pool and FE mostly
:?: Why would this make you want to switch to zerg? LOL, Banelings?
try out something different mostly, avoid a bunch of TvTs.
I'm fairly new to this so please forgive me if I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'm trying to get an idea of when the best time to send a scout out is. The impression I get is it should be fairly soon...like when I'm at around 8 to 10 collectors, but the problem that I'm having is I arrive at the villain's base and what I'm looking at doesn't really have meaning. I generally see collectors and maybe a gateway, but its so early that I can't really get a good idea of where the opponent is heading. Is this because I just need to learn all the standard openings or is it because I'm just scouting too early?
I always scout with the probe that builds my first pylon. Some wait until they drop gateway, but I prefer to do it on the pylon. With that initial scouting probe, you want to see what his opening is: is he going for early pressure or is he building an economy. By absolute biggest concern is checking for a rush. Things to watch out for:
Zerg: Look for the spawning pool. If there isn't one, go and check expansions to see if he early expanded. If there is a spawning pool, check its progress. Is it finished? He six pooled you and is about to hit you hard with zerglings, so wall off. Is it more than halfway finished? Expect early pressure, but you should have a zealot out in time if you chronoboost. Did he just drop it? You don't need to worry about any immediate pressure. Keep that probe running around until he has a queen or zerglings out.
Protoss: Check the progress on his gateway and check for gas. Is there a forge but no gateway? Possibly a cannon rush, but not necessarily. Does he have gas up? He's probably not going to zealot rush then. Keep that probe running around until he places that second building: THIS IS KEY: is he going to two gate opening or building a cyber core? If he went two gate, is he using chronoboosts on the gateway? This means he's getting zealots out to rush you as quickly as possible. Either wall off or decide if you'll try to match him unit for unit. If he has two gates up and no gas he's going to hit you fast and hard with a never ending stream of zealots. If he has two gates up and gas. Expect a quick zealot rush but he is preparing for a transition to cyber core tech and will probably drop the cyber core during the initial rush. If he built a gate with gas and a cyber core then you don't need to worry about any immediate rush. Is there nothing in his base? Well be very suspicious because he just proxied you, or he is terribad.
Terran: Again, check the timing on the first barracks. If it is finished, or nearly finished, expect some form of early harassment. Is he walling off? If not, I would consider flooding zerglings or zealots into his base if you are zerg or protoss to punish his negligence. Very important: keep that probing running around to see what kind of attachment he builds and what is the first unit that pops out. If he just gets an initial marine, don't expect any super early aggression. If the barracks is finished when you get there and is building a tech lab. Expect either reapers or a very early early maurader push. Keep that probe running around so you know which he's going for. If there is no barracks, then he is proxy reaper rushing you or is just terribad.
If any of the races have early double gas expect some kind of tech rush. Your not in immediate danger but you better start preparing for quick void rays, etc.
This is just the broadest knowledge you can pull from the intial scout. The higher skill, the more information you can pull. My biggest focus with my initial scout is to find out if he's going for early aggression or not and I feel that is the most important thing to know. After that, I usually get an early observer and that's went I scout out his army composition, tech, etc.
LOL, WOW i got Ninja'd. :P
Wow great info. I knew all this but you made it so simple and clear. Thanks much.
I ranked 2nd plat! E-penis = engorged!
My early game is smoothing out, ive been practicing the 4 gate timing push, the 2 gate harrass with zealots then freestyle (not successful really) and the 3 warpgate then stargate.
Theyv been working well, but i start to lose it mid and late game. Ill usually be winning or have won mid game but late game ill simply forget to tech and be outgunned (collossus burning my mans or crazy siege m&m push).
Also 2v2s are fun, so much more hectic but i found a guy who i beat in 1v1 whos my skill level and we communicate and coordinate well.
Eating real quick then jumping back on. Whomever wants to practice or hit up 2v2 teams im down.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Void rays are so slow and fragile. Based on the games I've watched, it really seems like you need to be paying attention and have some great micro or else you've wasted your resources on them.
Do toss players just mass VR and nobody has any idea how to counter it?
Void rays are so slow and fragile. Based on the games I've watched, it really seems like you need to be paying attention and have some great micro or else you've wasted your resources on them.
Do toss players just mass VR and nobody has any idea how to counter it?
It's more that early mass VRs can build up their charge on a back building and then kill all of your workers very quickly before you can respond, at which point they can trash your army and maybe your base.
very common thing to do is if you are going for a MMM (marine, marauder, medivac) build is to build your factory, start the reactor on the factory and your starport around the same time
timing is such that both the reactor and the starport will finish almost concurrently, making it so you can build 2 medivacs right away
Wait... what? I tried moving a marine building with a tech lab built on (thinking the lab would follow), and I just ended up with a barracks with no tech lab. I tried moving it back (adjacent) to the lab, but that didn't seem to work.
Are you suggesting that you can attach an already built lab/core to a different building...?
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
Also remember this about scouting: It can be used against you.
Good players will head fake you if they get scouted very early. I've done it, and I've had it done against me. For instance, I've tossed down a reactor, just so my opponent could see me do it, then chased his scout off and canceled the reactor. He figured mass marines, and went to counter it, only to run in to a bunch of Marauders.
Yes this is true. But if you let your opponent mass VRs and then get them all the way to the back of your base without scouting it or pushing and crushing him yourself then, you kindof deserve to lose.
Void Rays are so damn slow, take forever to build and are DAMN expensive. I go 3 warpgate then stargate and build 2-3 and micro the shit out of them while pushing on there front door.
I use it since alot of terrans just wall off siege up and it takes forever to crack. This way they either split there forces and i break in the front or there workers/cc gets wiped out. GG turtle terran.
edit: gnometank while that sounds good it does carry some risk.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
very common thing to do is if you are going for a MMM (marine, marauder, medivac) build is to build your factory, start the reactor on the factory and your starport around the same time
timing is such that both the reactor and the starport will finish almost concurrently, making it so you can build 2 medivacs right away
Wait... what? I tried moving a marine building with a tech lab built on (thinking the lab would follow), and I just ended up with a barracks with no tech lab. I tried moving it back (adjacent) to the lab, but that didn't seem to work.
Are you suggesting that you can attach an already built lab/core to a different building...?
Yes, you can, and it's a vital terrain tactic. I do this with tech labs/factories all the time in my mech build. I will tech lab my barracks while the factory is building, and when the factory finishes, swap them and start Siege Tech research. When you have an empty add-on and you lift a building that can sit on it, then go to set it down, you'll get a green outline of the building near the tech add-on to show you where to place it to take over that add-on.
very common thing to do is if you are going for a MMM (marine, marauder, medivac) build is to build your factory, start the reactor on the factory and your starport around the same time
timing is such that both the reactor and the starport will finish almost concurrently, making it so you can build 2 medivacs right away
Wait... what? I tried moving a marine building with a tech lab built on (thinking the lab would follow), and I just ended up with a barracks with no tech lab. I tried moving it back (adjacent) to the lab, but that didn't seem to work.
Are you suggesting that you can attach an already built lab/core to a different building...?
Yep. Lift off a building and you'll see a wireframe in the position where it would attach to an available tech lab or reactor. If I'm not using Helions, I'll very often make the reactor on the Factory just to lay it down for the Starport. Any add-on can be used by any Barracks, Factory, or Starport.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Yes this is true. But if you let your opponent mass VRs and then get them all the way to the back of your base without scouting it or pushing and crushing him yourself then, you kindof deserve to lose.
Void Rays are so damn slow, take forever to build and are DAMN expensive. I go 3 warpgate then stargate and build 2-3 and micro the shit out of them while pushing on there front door.
I use it since alot of terrans just wall off siege up and it takes forever to crack. This way they either split there forces and i break in the front or there workers/cc gets wiped out. GG turtle terran.
edit: gnometank while that sounds good it does carry some risk.
It doesn't just "sound" good. It's something a lot of really good players do quite a bit, and it's something you should certainly be aware of. You can't always trust your first scout, which is why you need to keep scouting pressure up. Too many new players scout once, then go about their day, assured that what they saw is what they will get.
very common thing to do is if you are going for a MMM (marine, marauder, medivac) build is to build your factory, start the reactor on the factory and your starport around the same time
timing is such that both the reactor and the starport will finish almost concurrently, making it so you can build 2 medivacs right away
Wait... what? I tried moving a marine building with a tech lab built on (thinking the lab would follow), and I just ended up with a barracks with no tech lab. I tried moving it back (adjacent) to the lab, but that didn't seem to work.
Are you suggesting that you can attach an already built lab/core to a different building...?
Building additions are static.
You need to line it up right when you move next to it, the manufacturer is a 3x3 and the additions are 2x2. iirc you need to line it up so it looks like:
MMM
MMMAA
MMMAA
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
very common thing to do is if you are going for a MMM (marine, marauder, medivac) build is to build your factory, start the reactor on the factory and your starport around the same time
timing is such that both the reactor and the starport will finish almost concurrently, making it so you can build 2 medivacs right away
Wait... what? I tried moving a marine building with a tech lab built on (thinking the lab would follow), and I just ended up with a barracks with no tech lab. I tried moving it back (adjacent) to the lab, but that didn't seem to work.
Are you suggesting that you can attach an already built lab/core to a different building...?
Building additions are static.
You need to line it up right when you move next to it, the manufacturer is a 3x3 and the additions are 2x2. iirc you need to line it up so it looks like:
MMM
MMMAA
MMMAA
It's not this hard. The game give you a green wireframe outline that shows you exactly where to place the building on touch down.
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Elementalor.228
FFBE: 898,311,440
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/dElementalor
I'm fairly new to this so please forgive me if I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'm trying to get an idea of when the best time to send a scout out is. The impression I get is it should be fairly soon...like when I'm at around 8 to 10 collectors, but the problem that I'm having is I arrive at the villain's base and what I'm looking at doesn't really have meaning. I generally see collectors and maybe a gateway, but its so early that I can't really get a good idea of where the opponent is heading. Is this because I just need to learn all the standard openings or is it because I'm just scouting too early?
White: 1721-3651-2720
Of course this means I've gotten worse or people are better. My phase2/release gold is effectively a silver from the first setup...
My loss in qualifying was against a terran who ended up 4/5 in gold with me. I ten pooled, found his wall with a maurader shooting, and switched to mutas. Destroyed most of his scv's before he managed to switch hard to marines. He was five rax at that point, all with reactor and (a minute later)+1 weap. I should have done bane, but went roaches and couldn't get enough out before he just wore me down with rine waves.
should have done banebust instead of muta when I hit the wall
This is a real problem - basically just assume that on very small maps where you could face a 6pool rush you need to take some measures to prepare for one before you even scout. If you can beat back the initial rush with minimal damage though, the zerg player is at a pretty big disadvantage economically.
When/how is the best way to scout Terran as zerg? Later on I don't mind throwing a sacraficial overlord, but early game losing a single overlord really sucks, and most decent players have a wall up pretty quick.
I am a freaking nerd.
banelings don't
Very. He was all marauder w/ hellion drone roasters at the time though. He switched so fast to rines I was shocked.
Then there were so many rines everywhere I feel like I got zerged.
I need to get better with banelings, since they seem to be the counter to pretty much half of what terrans will send at you.
I am a freaking nerd.
You pretty much need to always be ready for massed marines, all they have to do is have some reactors lying around to switch the barracks to and they can pump them out like nobodies business.
I am a freaking nerd.
Eh, really just marines.
I am still learning the ins and outs of all the units and upgrades and whatnot, and could use some pointers. Mainly I don't really know where to go after building a couple barracks. Usually I go for a factory and then the air base (not savvy on the names yet), making my armies consist of mainly marauders, marines, and vikings.
it wasn't sustained until later. He initially just pumped out enough to get the mutas while I was getting his expansion.
After that (should have done it during... sigh) I expanded twice, but lost a lot of drones to more hellions and didn't get enough roaches fast enough.
From the replay:
There were lots of ways I could have won. Grr. There was only one marauder when I got to his wall, might have been able to take it down. instead of wasting a minute switching to mutas, I could have even just massed lings and waited for him to march out. When I did get mutas, I went in too fast (with only 8) and gave away my air advantage before I could completely wipe him with it. Main lesson for me: He didn't know about the tech, so wait for the hammer blow against an all ground terran. Mutas are too counterable if given any time. Also, medivacs are mean.
For terran, I look for progress on his initial barracks, whether or not he's gotten gas, whether or not he's upgrading to an orbital command, and what he does with the first barracks (marine, tech lab, reactor). A completed barracks already producing something means he's cutting economy to be aggressive. Not getting gas means either a very aggressive mass marine push, a mass marine-secured quick expand, or he's an idiot. A tech lab can either mean a Reaper, or Marauders. I like to assume Reaper. A reactor might mean he's intending to go straight for fast hellions via building swap, or just has a unique way of building an army.
For protoss, I look for whether the second building is a cybercore or a Gateway, progress on first Gateway, number of pylons, whether they've got gas, and where chronoboost is being spent. If you see 2 Gateways and no gas, or a single Gateway with no cyber core up and chrono being spent on it, you can assume heavy zealot pressure in the near future. Gateway, Cybercore, then chrono on the Gateway means fast stalker. Chrono on the Cybercore means fast warpgates. Saving chronoboost on the Nexus and not boosting probes means a more aggressive posture. Saved chronoboost + no chronoboost on Cybercore usually screams void rays to me.
For zerg, I look for progress on the spawning pool, number of drones, and whether they have gas. If the pool is done and eggs are present, assume a 10 pool or other very aggressive build. Same if workers seem low for there being a pool down. If they have a finished gas up and running and pool isn't completed, they're either getting ling speed or a fast lair typically. But you can't rule out banelings or roaches. I have the most trouble scouting zerg until they start building whatever tech building it is they're using.
Take all this with a grain of salt, of course. It could just be you're playing someone with an odd (dumb) preference. I've seen plenty of people chronoboost out Zealots only to leave them in their base. 3 Rax, then not attack or expand. 8 pool, then make 6 zerglings and tech up. It's still good to be in the habit of scouting, so that when you're eventually playing competent people who will make reliably good decisions, and you have the experience to recognize the possibilities of what they're doing, you'll already be accustomed to it.
I always scout with the probe that builds my first pylon. Some wait until they drop gateway, but I prefer to do it on the pylon. With that initial scouting probe, you want to see what his opening is: is he going for early pressure or is he building an economy. By absolute biggest concern is checking for a rush. Things to watch out for:
Zerg: Look for the spawning pool. If there isn't one, go and check expansions to see if he early expanded. If there is a spawning pool, check its progress. Is it finished? He six pooled you and is about to hit you hard with zerglings, so wall off. Is it more than halfway finished? Expect early pressure, but you should have a zealot out in time if you chronoboost. Did he just drop it? You don't need to worry about any immediate pressure. Keep that probe running around until he has a queen or zerglings out.
Protoss: Check the progress on his gateway and check for gas. Is there a forge but no gateway? Possibly a cannon rush, but not necessarily. Does he have gas up? He's probably not going to zealot rush then. Keep that probe running around until he places that second building: THIS IS KEY: is he going to two gate opening or building a cyber core? If he went two gate, is he using chronoboosts on the gateway? This means he's getting zealots out to rush you as quickly as possible. Either wall off or decide if you'll try to match him unit for unit. If he has two gates up and no gas he's going to hit you fast and hard with a never ending stream of zealots. If he has two gates up and gas. Expect a quick zealot rush but he is preparing for a transition to cyber core tech and will probably drop the cyber core during the initial rush. If he built a gate with gas and a cyber core then you don't need to worry about any immediate rush. Is there nothing in his base? Well be very suspicious because he just proxied you, or he is terribad.
Terran: Again, check the timing on the first barracks. If it is finished, or nearly finished, expect some form of early harassment. Is he walling off? If not, I would consider flooding zerglings or zealots into his base if you are zerg or protoss to punish his negligence. Very important: keep that probing running around to see what kind of attachment he builds and what is the first unit that pops out. If he just gets an initial marine, don't expect any super early aggression. If the barracks is finished when you get there and is building a tech lab. Expect either reapers or a very early early maurader push. Keep that probe running around so you know which he's going for. If there is no barracks, then he is proxy reaper rushing you or is just terribad.
If any of the races have early double gas expect some kind of tech rush. Your not in immediate danger but you better start preparing for quick void rays, etc.
This is just the broadest knowledge you can pull from the intial scout. The higher skill, the more information you can pull. My biggest focus with my initial scout is to find out if he's going for early aggression or not and I feel that is the most important thing to know. After that, I usually get an early observer and that's went I scout out his army composition, tech, etc.
LOL, WOW i got Ninja'd. :P
:?: Why would this make you want to switch to zerg? LOL, Banelings?
Thats just crazy.
So in theory I could build a racks, build a reactor while building a second racks, immediately lift off when it finishes, land next to it and build a second reactor all while my second racks is still going, so I have two racks+reactors a bit quicker...
edit: just checked the build times, doesnt make sense for racks, but swapping in a factory could be useful.
timing is such that both the reactor and the starport will finish almost concurrently, making it so you can build 2 medivacs right away
try out something different mostly, avoid a bunch of TvTs.
and never going eztoss, never.
lol, more like ezterran.
*makes void ray*
*wins game*
Wow great info. I knew all this but you made it so simple and clear. Thanks much.
I ranked 2nd plat! E-penis = engorged!
My early game is smoothing out, ive been practicing the 4 gate timing push, the 2 gate harrass with zealots then freestyle (not successful really) and the 3 warpgate then stargate.
Theyv been working well, but i start to lose it mid and late game. Ill usually be winning or have won mid game but late game ill simply forget to tech and be outgunned (collossus burning my mans or crazy siege m&m push).
Also 2v2s are fun, so much more hectic but i found a guy who i beat in 1v1 whos my skill level and we communicate and coordinate well.
Eating real quick then jumping back on. Whomever wants to practice or hit up 2v2 teams im down.
Gamertag(SSF4/MW2)StokedAidzzzSC2 ID Stoked.655
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Void rays are so slow and fragile. Based on the games I've watched, it really seems like you need to be paying attention and have some great micro or else you've wasted your resources on them.
Do toss players just mass VR and nobody has any idea how to counter it?
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It's more that early mass VRs can build up their charge on a back building and then kill all of your workers very quickly before you can respond, at which point they can trash your army and maybe your base.
Wait... what? I tried moving a marine building with a tech lab built on (thinking the lab would follow), and I just ended up with a barracks with no tech lab. I tried moving it back (adjacent) to the lab, but that didn't seem to work.
Are you suggesting that you can attach an already built lab/core to a different building...?
Good players will head fake you if they get scouted very early. I've done it, and I've had it done against me. For instance, I've tossed down a reactor, just so my opponent could see me do it, then chased his scout off and canceled the reactor. He figured mass marines, and went to counter it, only to run in to a bunch of Marauders.
Void Rays are so damn slow, take forever to build and are DAMN expensive. I go 3 warpgate then stargate and build 2-3 and micro the shit out of them while pushing on there front door.
I use it since alot of terrans just wall off siege up and it takes forever to crack. This way they either split there forces and i break in the front or there workers/cc gets wiped out. GG turtle terran.
edit: gnometank while that sounds good it does carry some risk.
Gamertag(SSF4/MW2)StokedAidzzzSC2 ID Stoked.655
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Yes, you can, and it's a vital terrain tactic. I do this with tech labs/factories all the time in my mech build. I will tech lab my barracks while the factory is building, and when the factory finishes, swap them and start Siege Tech research. When you have an empty add-on and you lift a building that can sit on it, then go to set it down, you'll get a green outline of the building near the tech add-on to show you where to place it to take over that add-on.
Yep. Lift off a building and you'll see a wireframe in the position where it would attach to an available tech lab or reactor. If I'm not using Helions, I'll very often make the reactor on the Factory just to lay it down for the Starport. Any add-on can be used by any Barracks, Factory, or Starport.
-Z
It doesn't just "sound" good. It's something a lot of really good players do quite a bit, and it's something you should certainly be aware of. You can't always trust your first scout, which is why you need to keep scouting pressure up. Too many new players scout once, then go about their day, assured that what they saw is what they will get.
Building additions are static.
You need to line it up right when you move next to it, the manufacturer is a 3x3 and the additions are 2x2. iirc you need to line it up so it looks like:
MMM
MMMAA
MMMAA
It's not this hard. The game give you a green wireframe outline that shows you exactly where to place the building on touch down.