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[Starcraft 2] Multiplayer discussion. After 12 long years, it has arrived.

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Posts

  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    TheStig wrote: »
    Khavall wrote: »
    TheStig wrote: »
    Okay guys, so just had a game against a really annoying Protoss player. He starts out with a 2 gate, and then I scout his base with a throwaway ling and notice Stargates. Okay, I switch to making queens. He still almost gets me, but I got to his base sooner.

    How the hell do I deal with Void Rays besides just massing queens until I can get hydras out? Is there a better way?

    repimg-33-135075.jpg

    A few things:
    Getting 10 drones before your OL gives you a slightly better economy than 9. (I have actually tested this a few times)

    This is untrue, 9OL is better

    Nope.

    10 OL was better in Starcraft 1, 9 OL is better in Starcraft 2. This is according to nearly every pro zerg player I've watched that broadcasts their games, so I couldn't tell you myself.

    All I know is when I do 10 OL, I am always behind in certain upgrades and unit production by about 10-15 seconds than otherwise.

    Spawnbroker on
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  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    best zerg counters vs void rays are mass hydras, a few mutalisks, corruptors (obv)

    nothing easy like mass marines, unfortunately

    but by the time he has void rays you really should have hydras.

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Okay, so quick question about worker saturation with zerg.

    I feel like if I try to saturate my lines, I am ALWAYS making workers and I never have enough supply or money to do anything else. I feel like I need those defensive units or else I'm going to lose, but I never have the larva to do it.

    I dunno, am I missing something? When do you know you've made the right amount, or when are you making too many? I've gotten caught in games where I was like WORKERWORKERWORKERWORKER OH SHIT I JUST GOT INVADED NO LARVA AAAAAHHHHH

    Spawnbroker on
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  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Okay, so quick question about worker saturation with zerg.

    I feel like if I try to saturate my lines, I am ALWAYS making workers and I never have enough supply or money to do anything else. I feel like I need those defensive units or else I'm going to lose, but I never have the larva to do it.

    I dunno, am I missing something? When do you know you've made the right amount, or when are you making too many? I've gotten caught in games where I was like WORKERWORKERWORKERWORKER OH SHIT I JUST GOT INVADED NO LARVA AAAAAHHHHH

    When do you make your queen?

    Jubal77 on
  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited August 2010
    the perfect amount is so that you have enough units for defense

    the rest of your larva should be drones

    (it's really just a combination of feeling how well defended you are and how much you scout)

    of course if you are gearing up for offense pump units, but that is self explanatory

    undeinPirat on
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  • nealcmnealcm Alvarian AlvarianRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    its just something you have to pick up over time, when you can "powerdrone" and when you need units.

    also it helps to put a zergling just outside their ramp so you know when they are moving out for a push, and you can spawn a bunch of units real quick for defense.

    nealcm on
    19ZUtIw.png
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Okay, so quick question about worker saturation with zerg.

    I feel like if I try to saturate my lines, I am ALWAYS making workers and I never have enough supply or money to do anything else. I feel like I need those defensive units or else I'm going to lose, but I never have the larva to do it.

    I dunno, am I missing something? When do you know you've made the right amount, or when are you making too many? I've gotten caught in games where I was like WORKERWORKERWORKERWORKER OH SHIT I JUST GOT INVADED NO LARVA AAAAAHHHHH

    When do you make your queen?

    I usually make my first queen around 15-16 supply after my first overlord. Should I be waiting on the queen if I'm fast expanding?

    Spawnbroker on
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  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    A lot of the reason that IdrA is such a strong player is that he has good enough game sense to only ever have just enough defense to hold off pressure.

    Everything else goes to drones and expanding which makes his macro terrifying. His foodcount always towers over the other person, unless there was some really successful harassment throughout

    Beef Avenger on
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  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I'd still like some feedback on my latest run, as I feel it was my strongest match yet.

    For reference, how many things can detect a cloaked Banshee? Can Missile Turrets also detected cloaked ground forces?

    Professor Snugglesworth on
  • nealcmnealcm Alvarian AlvarianRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    speaking of idra's macro, i was just recently watching his first two games against QXC and
    that game where they both killed each other's army but you watched idra's food count never change was fucking fantastic, he had like 50 larva ready and waiting to become zerglings and ultralisks

    god i love zerg

    nealcm on
    19ZUtIw.png
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Okay, so quick question about worker saturation with zerg.

    I feel like if I try to saturate my lines, I am ALWAYS making workers and I never have enough supply or money to do anything else. I feel like I need those defensive units or else I'm going to lose, but I never have the larva to do it.

    I dunno, am I missing something? When do you know you've made the right amount, or when are you making too many? I've gotten caught in games where I was like WORKERWORKERWORKERWORKER OH SHIT I JUST GOT INVADED NO LARVA AAAAAHHHHH

    When do you make your queen?

    I usually make my first queen around 15-16 supply after my first overlord. Should I be waiting on the queen if I'm fast expanding?

    Ive been making my queen early (I still havent done my placements as I am waiting) in my testing and practicing and I have had good luck with it early. By early I am saying 10-12. This helps me on the fast expand to saturate that node quickly as well as I can bring my queen down. I just like to have my queen early. It might bite me in the ass later but it is my preference.

    Jubal77 on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    For reference, how many things can detect a cloaked Banshee? Can Missile Turrets also detected cloaked ground forces?

    Overseers, Spore Crawlers
    Observers, Cannons
    Ravens, Turrets, Scans

    All of these detect any cloaked/burrowed units, ground or air.

    edit: I keep getting probes and observers mixed up

    815165 on
  • exoplasmexoplasm Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    subedii wrote: »
    Jutranjo wrote: »

    It's free for smart phones.

    Well when I get an iPhone I'll be sure to pick it up.



    EDIT: @Spawnbroker: Is the number of account hijackings for WoW really that much bigger than it is for something like Steam? Or is it just more sophisticated or what?

    It's like a dollar plus whatever it costs for you download stuff on almost any phone, so like 3 bucks max. You don't need an iPhone.

    A dollar? Download costs? Wha? The iPhone and Android versions are 100% free. In fact I wonder if you could run it on an iPhone or Android emulator (getting it onto the emulator is the tricky part, but not sure if Blizz detects and blocks such use).

    Edit: Oh I did not know there was also a java version for dumbphones, too.

    More edit: It looks like you can indeed run it on the Android emulator, and there are other options as well. Of course this diminishes security a bit because of the attacker wants to look for it (admittedly it would be rather difficult for them to know where to find your Android emulator and its filesystem), but it's free and better than nothing.

    exoplasm on
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  • TalithTalith 変態という名の紳士 Miami, FLRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    815165 wrote: »
    For reference, how many things can detect a cloaked Banshee? Can Missile Turrets also detected cloaked ground forces?

    Overseers, Spore Crawlers
    Observers, Cannons
    Ravens, Turrets, Scans

    All of these detect any cloaked/burrowed units, ground or air.

    edit: I keep getting probes and observers mixed up

    Ghost emp and infester fungal growth also nullify cloak.

    Talith on
    9e0txHT.gif
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
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  • LockeColeLockeCole Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Okay, so quick question about worker saturation with zerg.

    I feel like if I try to saturate my lines, I am ALWAYS making workers and I never have enough supply or money to do anything else. I feel like I need those defensive units or else I'm going to lose, but I never have the larva to do it.

    I dunno, am I missing something? When do you know you've made the right amount, or when are you making too many? I've gotten caught in games where I was like WORKERWORKERWORKERWORKER OH SHIT I JUST GOT INVADED NO LARVA AAAAAHHHHH

    When do you make your queen?

    I usually make my first queen around 15-16 supply after my first overlord. Should I be waiting on the queen if I'm fast expanding?

    Ive been making my queen early (I still havent done my placements as I am waiting) in my testing and practicing and I have had good luck with it early. By early I am saying 10-12. This helps me on the fast expand to saturate that node quickly as well as I can bring my queen down. I just like to have my queen early. It might bite me in the ass later but it is my preference.

    When are you making your spawning pool?

    My general start:

    13 Drone
    Spawning Pool
    Drones to 16 while Pool builds (drone scout + extractor usually in here somewhere)
    Spawning Pool pops
    Queen + Overlord (this eats almost all my stored minerals)

    What happens next varies a little depending on what my drone saw, but usually get some zerglings up at least.

    I do need to get better on making sure to use the queen to spawn more larva every time its possible.

    LockeCole on
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    LockeCole wrote: »
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Okay, so quick question about worker saturation with zerg.

    I feel like if I try to saturate my lines, I am ALWAYS making workers and I never have enough supply or money to do anything else. I feel like I need those defensive units or else I'm going to lose, but I never have the larva to do it.

    I dunno, am I missing something? When do you know you've made the right amount, or when are you making too many? I've gotten caught in games where I was like WORKERWORKERWORKERWORKER OH SHIT I JUST GOT INVADED NO LARVA AAAAAHHHHH

    When do you make your queen?

    I usually make my first queen around 15-16 supply after my first overlord. Should I be waiting on the queen if I'm fast expanding?

    Ive been making my queen early (I still havent done my placements as I am waiting) in my testing and practicing and I have had good luck with it early. By early I am saying 10-12. This helps me on the fast expand to saturate that node quickly as well as I can bring my queen down. I just like to have my queen early. It might bite me in the ass later but it is my preference.

    When are you making your spawning pool?

    My general start:

    13 Drone
    Spawning Pool
    Drones to 16 while Pool builds (drone scout + extractor usually in here somewhere)
    Spawning Pool pops
    Queen + Overlord (this eats almost all my stored minerals)

    What happens next varies a little depending on what my drone saw, but usually get some zerglings up at least.

    I do need to get better on making sure to use the queen to spawn more larva every time its possible.

    See that is what is limiting me I guess. I have that downtime from my spawning pool being the first thing I pop after the initial larva being used for drones. Ill try this out.

    Jubal77 on
  • projectmayhemprojectmayhem Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I think zerg just clicked for me today in a placement 2v2. In no time at all I was at three bases, I never stopped making lings and hydras (full upgrades for both), spreaded my larva like a cheap whore, and buy the end of the very short (18min) game I had: 194/200 army, 8k min, 3k gas. I couldnt spend it fast enough. It was amazing. I should have just made a base at every expansion instead of ending it.

    Although it did help that my partner went mass marine, I went mass ling/hydra and our double toss opponents went mass void ray. Why don't people in the lower leagues scout? Hey people in lower leagus, scout.

    projectmayhem on
  • GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Hah, friend of mine told me you can use a Zerg infestor to mind control an enemy worker, and quickly build a nexus/command center to start a 2nd race :D :D :D :D :D

    Obviously easier with Nexus

    GPIA7R on
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    look at the achievement the zerglot

    Jars on
  • GarthorGarthor Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    Hah, friend of mine told me you can use a Zerg infestor to mind control an enemy worker, and quickly build a nexus/command center to start a 2nd race :D :D :D :D :D

    Obviously easier with Nexus

    Well, there's an achievement for it (warping in a Zealot as Zerg), soooo...

    Though, I did always wonder how that worked. Just, a Zealot warping in from wherever they warp in from now, all, "MY LIFE FOR- wait what the shit? Oh, goddamnit..." and they grudgingly go along with killing some Protoss alongside Zerglings?

    Garthor on
  • GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Heh, still, very awesome...

    Build some bunkers near my creep, put some hydras in them :P That'd be nice.

    GPIA7R on
  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Jars wrote: »
    look at the achievement the zerglot

    you can get zerglot by building from an ally's warpgate

    i figured this out by accident after my partner dropped in a game

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  • LockeColeLockeCole Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Jars wrote: »
    look at the achievement the zerglot

    you can get zerglot by building from an ally's warpgate

    i figured this out by accident after my partner dropped in a game

    Heh, nice. Time to lose a game this way :)

    LockeCole on
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I bought this game (for the single player originally) and started watching videos of super high-level play.

    Now I want in.

    HOW I VENT GAS/BE PRO?

    Actually I know how. I have 40 or so more of those practice games left and I plan on making the most out of them.

    Malkor on
    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    GPIA7R on
  • LockeColeLockeCole Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Malkor wrote: »
    I bought this game (for the single player originally) and started watching videos of super high-level play.

    Now I want in.

    HOW I VENT GAS/BE PRO?

    Actually I know how. I have 40 or so more of those practice games left and I plan on making the most out of them.

    Honestly, if you are really learning I would recommend skipping the practice matches and just let the system place you in the lowest bracket, you'll learn as you work your way up.

    LockeCole on
  • FuriousJodoFuriousJodo Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Yeah - really from what I have seen in Gold level, Copper probably isn't going to be rough for anyone.

    FuriousJodo on
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  • GarthorGarthor Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Oh fuck me, looking at the map editor I JUST NOW REALIZED: units in bunkers can use stimpacks. It's an ability on the bunker.

    Garthor on
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Garthor wrote: »
    Oh fuck me, looking at the map editor I JUST NOW REALIZED: units in bunkers can use stimpacks. It's an ability on the bunker.

    Interesting, and because their in the bunker they won't die as quickly from enemy fire. And you can try healing them later if possible.

    Corehealer on
    488W936.png
  • StokedUpStokedUp Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Damn thors to helll. Every terran i play that i open with 1 gate 1 stargate goes MASS THOHHHRS!

    I outplay them denying there expos and shooting down there cloaked banshees, but they then push with like 10 thors, with a few siege tanks and destroy my army or stalkers, zealots, immortals.

    What is the secret spice im missing? DTs? lol

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  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    It's hard to do the Neural Parasite thing with Terran, however, seeing as you have to constantly recast while building (I did this to an SCV of a player I just eliminated.) Didn't even finish the Command Center because it was taking forever.

    Drovek on
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  • OceaniaxOceaniax Registered User
    edited August 2010
    StokedUp wrote: »
    Damn thors to helll. Every terran i play that i open with 1 gate 1 stargate goes MASS THOHHHRS!

    I outplay them denying there expos and shooting down there cloaked banshees, but they then push with like 10 thors, with a few siege tanks and destroy my army or stalkers, zealots, immortals.

    What is the secret spice im missing? DTs? lol

    If they're massing thors, immortals with chargelots do a fine job. VoidRays would be a fine option as well, as long as you have enough (but since you're likely going to have a robo & gateways when you discover his tech path, it's an easier transition to do the former).

    Do you have a replay of that game up?

    Oceaniax on
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