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who do i direct my rage to for supplying him with booze?

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Posts

  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    the adults in this situation were woefully irresponsible. you DO NOT serve alcohol to a minor, medical condition or not, to the point where they are drunk enough to fall down some stairs. It is illegal and extremely dangerous - your brother could have easily injured himself seriously falling down a flight of stairs. Yes, he will surely be able to find alcohol elsewhere but the adults in this sitation need to understand what they were doing was illegal, irresponsible, and dangerous. You would do well to inform them that if this happens again you will immediately contact the police.

    the next time your brother may not be so lucky

    as for your brother he did something very foolish. Possibly he may look up to you in some way, and a 'drink responsibly' coming from you may mean more than from your parents. You should explain to him given his condition that binge drinking takes away his ability to care for himself. I think the 'you could have gotten yourself killed' angle will be more useful than arbitrary punishments.

    as for a punishment itself, I'm not really sure. I was rarely punished as a kid so I can't really say what's effective and what's not.

    Casual Eddy on
  • FiggyFiggy Fighter of the night man Champion of the sunRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    The cutting of braids was because they were something fashionable that he had and that it was always a threat that they would make him cut it when he crossed the line. Personally, I think they should make him trim it down to a fro.

    Maybe I'm missing some sort of cultural norm where you're from, but cutting your teenager's hair as a form of punishment is bordering on sadistic. What, his hair is some sort of privilege that he has now lost?

    What is he, a samurai?

    Figgy on
    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment
  • saltinesssaltiness Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Okay, so he was drunk and fell down some stairs because he was being a dumbass?

    No alcohol poisoning. Why did he end up in the hospital? Did he have a seizure?

    I fell down plenty of stairs when I drank heavily in my teenage years.

    The hosts/his friends had no knowledge of his medical history. Why should there be any shame on them? It's just another drunk teenager being foolish but not dangerously so in their eyes. Run-of-the-mill shit.

    Am I missing something?

    saltiness on
    XBL: heavenkils
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Well, giving alcohol to an under aged child is illegal and whether or not they knew his medical condition is irrelevant to the fact that the alcohol had a bad effect on him and several other children at the party and they are still culpable either way.

    Just to be clear, we haven't cut his hair and gave him a speech, the other brother will have more to say later, right now the fatigue, the shock of missing 3 to 4 hours of his life and being like the drunk white kids at school are sufficient.

    edit: We are really more upset that the people responsible hid like little bitches and didn't offer up any help or reason to why they were dragging him to the car, at the time, we didn't know if it was booze, drugs, head trauma, or another seizure. Their silence made it worse.

    RoyceSraphim on
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2010
    Well, giving alcohol to an under aged child is illegal and whether or not they knew his medical condition is irrelevant to the fact that the alcohol had a bad effect on him and several other children at the party and they are still culpable either way.

    Just to be clear, we haven't cut his hair and gave him a speech, the other brother will have more to say later, right now the fatigue, the shock of missing 3 to 4 hours of his life and being like the drunk white kids at school are sufficient.

    edit: We are really more upset that the people responsible hid like little bitches and didn't offer up any help or reason to why they were dragging him to the car, at the time, we didn't know if it was booze, drugs, head trauma, or another seizure. Their silence made it worse.

    Isn't the person responsible your brother, since he knowingly consumed something which could result in his own demise?

    Unless these other people forced him to drink I would consider the blame entirely on him given that he knowinly consumed alcoholic beverages despite his medical condition.

    _J_ on
  • RaneadosRaneados police apologist you shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    He's 16.

    Medical condition is a seizure disorder thats treated with twice daily medication. He hasn't had seizures in some time so it was a big worry when he drank, he fell down some stairs, and being too tired to take his meds.

    He didn't have alcohol poisoning he was just wasted at twice the legal limit.

    The other brother in Cali chewed him out fierce and now he faces the hard task of looking at his friends and realizing that most of them were only concerned about covering their ass and only a few bothered to tell the truth to help him.

    As far as the rebellion verses authority goes, his brother and I have been more than encouraging and understanding of his whims, even going so far as to let him taste some jack and understand it and explain why it wasn't necessary.

    The cutting of braids was because they were something fashionable that he had and that it was always a threat that they would make him cut it when he crossed the line. Personally, I think they should make him trim it down to a fro.

    As far as the phone was concerned, its not his property, its something his parents pay for so they can contact him and let him out of the house.

    Right now, I don't think anyone is going to put him on the rack, its kind of back to normal right now and since the evidence is all gone from the house, there's no point in perusing legal action. But after he showed me his facebook page and his friends, there will be a discussion on how the host could go out there and be all, "EHHHH, DUO!" trying to slap hands with my wasted and passed out little brother and not say a GORRAM thing to his mother! Hell, even the tween and teen girls were yelling, "How can you go up and disrespect his mom like that?"

    I have a brother that's gone through the same thing with friends. They bailed on him when it looked like he was dying from alcohol poisoning and the cops were coming. Great guys!

    chances are he'll go back to those friends in, at most, a few months

    cutting the braids would be stupid. It shows an authoritative view and the kid's going to rebel against it one way or another

    you let him taste alcohol. That does nothing, as nobody at these things is drinking because they want to savor the taste

    The Phone might not be his property but then again NOTHING IS, he's a minor, he has very few rights. Looking through his phone, and doing it covertly is a HUGE invasion of privacy. if he ever finds out he will completely resent you for it. if not openly, then he'll have it in the back of him mind. He knows you'll go behind his back and try to sneak information. he's not going to be as open as he could be because he knows You're not as open as you could be.

    Everyone has the hindsight AFTER the party. Those same girls that are so quick to point the blame finger AFTER the party are the same ones drinking and egging each other on to drink more AT the party. They'll rationalize and blame others all day long. No matter what they never think it's their fault. Those same tween girls are feeling guilty now but when it's actually happening they couldn't give a shit. Later they feel the need to point out what other people are doing wrong to feel better about their own mistakes

    Soon, if not already, you'll get complaints about lectures. EVERY TIME YOU TRY TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT ANYTHING. He'll say "uh huh", "yeah" and eventually "GEEZ STOP LECTURING ME FUCKING HELL" and then he'll leave for a while until he thinks you've forgotten. He'll leave for longer each time until you stop bringing it up

    I've seen this dude. It's happened to my little brother. It took a 6 month long jail stay and a huge legal battle to try to get him deported before he actually started not fucking up. He still drinks when he's been court-ordered not to but he is better about it. He doesn't drink and drive anymore nor does he get fuck-shit drunk.

    If your brother doesn't ramp up this behavior with all the totalitarian treatment he's getting, he is the rarest fucking teenager ever.

    Raneados on
  • RaneadosRaneados police apologist you shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Dude someone fucking smashed their face in at their party

    some people are not equipped to deal with the cops showing up to their door asking why people are getting wasted and why one kid smashed his face on some stairs

    people don't want to get in trouble. Natural human instinct. if they can play dumb and get away with it, they will usually try to

    Raneados on
  • RaneadosRaneados police apologist you shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Raneados wrote: »
    yelling and screaming at him and enforcing some sort of regime on him won't do anything except make him do it again

    you guys remember being 17 right?

    you remember teenage rebellion?

    Except it's not the same as when we were kids -- we didn't have a serious medical condition that could cause complications like this. If he does it again, he could die.

    It is still the same. If it isn't, you weren't going to the same parties I was or the brother was. They've had hard drinking parties for kids ever since alcohol was invented

    if anyone drinks to excess, they could die, seizure condition or not, drinking is FAMOUS for this


    teenagers are prone to rebel, no matter what, it's that age where the idea become idealistic. Your style changes and you want to find your own voice. Most teenagers rebel in some way and all feel rebellious. Yelling and screaming to him about how he fucked up is going to get met with "yeah uh huh" and then a week of being good and then doing it again, probably moreso

    Raneados on
  • FiggyFiggy Fighter of the night man Champion of the sunRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Just to be clear, we haven't cut his hair and gave him a speech, the other brother will have more to say later, right now the fatigue, the shock of missing 3 to 4 hours of his life and being like the drunk white kids at school are sufficient.

    So your way of teaching your kid brother responsible behaviour is to chastise him for the friends he chooses? Earlier in the thread you also mentioned how you and your brothers have told him how you don't feel the need to drink socially, so he should know better.

    You aren't your brother. He's going to make his own choices in life. Some of those choices are going to be different than the ones you took growing up. His friends might be different kinds of people than your friends growing up. Looking down on the choices he makes isn't going to make him look up to you.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't be disappointed that he got shit faced and fell down some stairs, considering his medical condition. But you come off as you have a "holier than thou" attitude about him and how he behaves. I think you should start by giving him a bit more respect than you indicate here. He's a teenager, and teenagers will drink. They will fuck up. And then they learn lessons.

    Figgy on
    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment
  • SeeksSeeks Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    You aren't your brother. He's going to make his own choices in life. Some of those choices are going to be different than the ones you took growing up. His friends might be different kinds of people than your friends growing up. Looking down on the choices he makes isn't going to make him look up to you.

    Some of those choices are going to be worse than different. Some of them are going to be fucking stupid, and he should know that they're fucking stupid, before, during and after. Regardless of whether or not it results in him looking up to anybody.

    He's old enough that most forms of discipline aren't going to "teach him a lesson." Being his brother and not a parent, I don't think there's much you can do other than to let him know when he's being a dumbass. And, also, not lend him your car.

    Seeks on
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  • KlatuKlatu Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi OiRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    No matter what you say to him he's learned something from the experience already. Missing a few hours of my life one night in a drunken haze was enough to make me stop drinking pretty much full stop. :D

    My brother still hasn't fully learned his lesson yet. He still gets drunk every w/end and has even lost a job or two to it. My parents came down hard on him for smoking and drinking when he was still young enough to be told off by them and it only drove him further down that path. Granted some other stuff has contributed to his chosen path, but the majority of it started when he was still at home.

    Don't be too hard on him, some people learn when to stop, others don't until it's too late. It all depends on the person and other peoples judgement will either make him feel trapped and he'll rebel hard when he gets out from under everyones care, or he'll go to extremes to find people to supply him. Talk, be understanding. Your choice of not drinking is not his choice, even if it's served you well.

    He may now realise that his friends acted like silly geese when they should have backed him and helped him out, but that's more for him to deal with.

    Eventually he's going to be on his own, the best you can do is be there to help him when he needs it.

    Klatu on
    Steam id:Klatu - PS id: Klatu_PA - 3DS FC: 0920-0528-6680
  • RasmusRasmus Registered User regular
    edited August 2010

    As far as the rebellion verses authority goes, his brother and I have been more than encouraging and understanding of his whims, even going so far as to let him taste some jack and understand it and explain why it wasn't necessary.

    The bolded part is where you're wrong. Let him decide why it is, or is not, necessary to drink alcohol.

    Oh, and don't cut his hair as punishment, that will only serve to alienate him further.

    Rasmus on
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Yea, by approaching this as antagonistically as you are, you are running a great risk of pushing him farther away. If he fucks up, and I'm sure he knows he does, and you guys rain holy hell down upon him, why in the world would he ever come to you for help if he fucks up again? Expect to have more things hidden from you if you go farther down this path. And yes, the phone thing is a major invasion of privacy. I don't care who pays for it, children's privacy should be equally respected. Only if there was an agreement when he got the phone that X, Y, and/or Z can look through the phone whenever they want, then you were in the wrong to do so without his permission.

    Improvolone on
    Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
  • Teslan26Teslan26 Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    A condition that requires medication is not a condition that prohibits drinking. He is now 16, and perfectly capable of planning meds around a night out.

    Giving a guy a sip of whisky is absolutely not 'giving someone an understanding' of alcohol. People who just began drinking do not generally drink spirits neat and/or for the flavour. They drink because their friends are, and I assume because they enjoy the feeling of inebriation. A sip of Jack samples neither of those things, and just shows how utterly lacking in understanding you are of the things surrounding a decision to drink.

    First off, regardless of the law, if you treat him like a child then you will get the rebellious teenager aspect magnified. He is old enough to be responsible for his decisions. That means not vilifying his friends, and granting him with the respect to discuss his actions instead of berating him. If you think there is risk associated with what he did, talk to him about it. Ask him how he intends to manage the risk NEXT TIME he gets drunk. Do not kid yourself, it will happen again. If you try and prevent it, he will simply evade you, and then the evasion results in actual danger.

    Ask that you be informed when he thinks he'll be drinking. Ask that he try and moderate his intake with an eye for the consequences. Treat him like an adult and see how he responds - it may surprise you.

    As for the people supplying him - you can try and make a fuss but it will only hurt your relationship with your brother. Even if you manage to cause them hassle, there is a never ending supply of others who will do it.

    Teslan26 on
  • WezoinWezoin Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Ignore everything below if his medical condition is actually adversely effected by alcohol, and not just a case of 'forgot his meds' (I didn't read the whole thread (but did read most of it) but the post above me seems to question how relevant his condition really is, so sorry if I misread it):

    I would avoid focussing on the fact that he was drinking, but on how much he drank, knowing his limit, and being responsible while drinking. A beer or two isn't going to do him any harm, hell, usually binge drinking won't even end up in the kind of harm he just experienced if he can do it in a safe environment. I find the environment really depends on the mood - i've found that in a big loud party/club people tend to fall over/generally seem alot more drunk than in a more laid back relaxing setting (sitting on a couch/porch with some buddies.)

    Do you drink, even just socially? If so have a beer or two with him occasionally. One of my favourite things to do when I was underage was have a few beers with my dad - and it showed me what 'mature' drinking is about. From then on even when I went drinking at parties or whatnot the tone was different, we sat and drank just as much but it was less of a mad rush to shove as much alcohol as we could down our throats, which kept things more calm and led to less injuries. You still end up feeling just as drunk, it lasts longer because you have booze to keep you going through the night, and its safer.

    Wezoin on
  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited August 2010
    Figgy wrote: »
    The cutting of braids was because they were something fashionable that he had and that it was always a threat that they would make him cut it when he crossed the line. Personally, I think they should make him trim it down to a fro.

    Maybe I'm missing some sort of cultural norm where you're from, but cutting your teenager's hair as a form of punishment is bordering on sadistic. What, his hair is some sort of privilege that he has now lost?

    What is he, a samurai?

    I realize im latching into a small detail, but he must be mixed? Cutting natural braids out is would be years of regrowth for some people, which is needlessly cruel for one mistake hes already been chewed out about. I hope this is not the case for him, because I would hold some serious grudges over that shit.

    Iruka on
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