medic and marine to start
marauder if you use them, the slow is pretty boss on some missions
tank
viking
medivac
thor possibly
orbital command+fire extinguishers
I bet toss will have the ability to warp in any unit, like they do in the campaign
What about mercs? Are mercs good enough for Brutal?
the tank mercs do terrible, terrible damage with the upgrade while costing 50 less gas. 140 per shot is pure pain. Vikings are good as well, and the bc one costs the same as a regular bc if you have spare credits.
Do upgrades apply to mercs? I thought they came fully upgraded?
medic and marine to start
marauder if you use them, the slow is pretty boss on some missions
tank
viking
medivac
thor possibly
orbital command+fire extinguishers
I bet toss will have the ability to warp in any unit, like they do in the campaign
What about mercs? Are mercs good enough for Brutal?
the tank mercs do terrible, terrible damage with the upgrade while costing 50 less gas. 140 per shot is pure pain. Vikings are good as well, and the bc one costs the same as a regular bc if you have spare credits.
Do upgrades apply to mercs? I thought they came fully upgraded?
Upgrades do apply to mercs, but if you don't have an upgrade, they won't have it. So the War Pigs, IIRC, have 75 hp normally, and if you get the shield they have 85.
medic and marine to start
marauder if you use them, the slow is pretty boss on some missions
tank
viking
medivac
thor possibly
orbital command+fire extinguishers
I bet toss will have the ability to warp in any unit, like they do in the campaign
What about mercs? Are mercs good enough for Brutal?
I agree with this list. Medic/Marine/Marauder/Seige tank is how I basically do every map, except for those ones with a gimmic.
In terms of the protoss/zerg techs most are pretty obvious. I think this is the best list for brutal:
Protoss:
Faster Weapons
25% More Gas (macro should be fine to not need instant build depos)
Automated Refiniers (I went with double SCV production - definately a bad move)
Science Vessel
Tech Reactor
Zerg:
Undecided on the bunker, I went with the gun, but I think the extra health would be way more useful.
I went with perdition turrets, but again undecided on what would actually be better.
Hercules, marines do the job of the other unit 20x better.
I went with the regenerating biosteel, but with science vessels I don't think its needed, so the energy one is probably better.
Can't remember what the other zerg one is.
The Lurkers were removed because the developers felt that Roaches and Banelings were more useful/balanced for the Zerg's tech tiers.
The lurker was removed because its role was taken up by the roach (which can move while burrowed) and banelings (which deal splash damage),[15] although the lurker could attack with out being noticed, unlike the other two who have to be seen to attack.
The developers say that Lurkers were taken out because their goal is to keep the unit count of the game as small as possible so that players know their choices and understand their enemy choices as well. They feel that the Roach uses the Lurker's burrow ability well, while Ultralisks and Banelings have the splash damage covered. Many units took over Lurkers’ roles over the period of development, so they didn't think they were as valuable anymore. But we all do miss them!
Well this is our point of view. I think that Lurkers should not really be Tier2 in the current build, because they don't really fit in there and they wouldn't really be a good counter to Roaches, given the fact that ZvZ is a very dynamic matchup and you would probably still prefer Ultralisks or Broodlords at T3. What do you think about it?
Kapeselus. 2010-03-17. Blizzard please bring back Zerg Lurkers. StarCraft II Gameplay Discussion Forum. Accessed 2010-03-17.
I didn't really care that lurkers did not make it in. You can't turtle in your base with them anymore, oh no. They would come pretty late anyway with hydras now requiring a lair.
Calling it now: one of the upgrades in HotS singleplayer will be the ability to build zerg buildings without sacrificing a drone.
Honestly I don't think so. Buildings are already kind of priced with the drone sacrifice in mind (hence why a Hatchery is cheaper than a CC/Nexus, etc). And as others said, it defeats the core playstyle of the zerg. I know Single Player is not Multi Player, but that's a HUGE change to their playstyle. Besides, you can always build like 6 drones for the 1 you give up :P (and it's not like pumping out attack units constantly is ever really an issue in SP)
If you wanted to achieve a similar effect, make an upgrade where you get 50 minerals back when you turn a drone into a building.
And if you really think about it, its not that great of an upgrade. Saving 50 minerals each building, woo. As you said, they're already priced accordingly. The opposing tech would have to be horrible to not be better.
A lot of the Terran upgrades weren't that great either
But I was just citing an example of accomplishing somewhat the same thing in a more realistic (as in something they might actually do) manner.
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited August 2010
Odin:
Another case of spam the unit that you get as part of the mission. Have a token marine/few tank force guarding your base against the 2-3 ground force waves they send at you, but just keep building wraiths as fast as possible. Expand to the 1st base he takes out too for extra income. There are not very many missile turrets until the very last base and even then, not that much. You just need to quickly snipe the ravens, while then picking apart the tanks. Also, make sure to keep producing SCVs and repairing the Odin since the stupid AI will always kill the SCVs first. And fly your fleet back to pick off the attack waves on your base in transit so you're not that disrupted.
You'll need to produce several vikings at the end to absorb fire, but on the last base, use your air fleet to snipe the 2 battlecruisers before they can Yamato and then you've essentially won.
The Lurkers were removed because the developers felt that Roaches and Banelings were more useful/balanced for the Zerg's tech tiers.
The lurker was removed because its role was taken up by the roach (which can move while burrowed) and banelings (which deal splash damage),[15] although the lurker could attack with out being noticed, unlike the other two who have to be seen to attack.
The developers say that Lurkers were taken out because their goal is to keep the unit count of the game as small as possible so that players know their choices and understand their enemy choices as well. They feel that the Roach uses the Lurker's burrow ability well, while Ultralisks and Banelings have the splash damage covered. Many units took over Lurkers’ roles over the period of development, so they didn't think they were as valuable anymore. But we all do miss them!
Well this is our point of view. I think that Lurkers should not really be Tier2 in the current build, because they don't really fit in there and they wouldn't really be a good counter to Roaches, given the fact that ZvZ is a very dynamic matchup and you would probably still prefer Ultralisks or Broodlords at T3. What do you think about it?
Kapeselus. 2010-03-17. Blizzard please bring back Zerg Lurkers. StarCraft II Gameplay Discussion Forum. Accessed 2010-03-17.
man we have burrow roaches which can move while burrowed but we don't have things that can attack while cloaked
It would cool to have the cliff jumping ability from alpha as a zergling campaign upgrade, but they will probably go with the standard speed and attack upgrade.
A thought just occurred to me. In the first game there were characters that the player "played", the commander in the Terran campaign, cebrate in the Zerg, and executor in the Protoss.
Is Matt from the Wings Of Liberty campaign suppose to be that character?
A thought just occurred to me. In the first game there were characters that the player "played", the commander in the Terran campaign, cebrate in the Zerg, and executor in the Protoss.
Is Matt from the Wings Of Liberty campaign suppose to be that character?
The Lurkers were removed because the developers felt that Roaches and Banelings were more useful/balanced for the Zerg's tech tiers.
The lurker was removed because its role was taken up by the roach (which can move while burrowed) and banelings (which deal splash damage),[15] although the lurker could attack with out being noticed, unlike the other two who have to be seen to attack.
The developers say that Lurkers were taken out because their goal is to keep the unit count of the game as small as possible so that players know their choices and understand their enemy choices as well. They feel that the Roach uses the Lurker's burrow ability well, while Ultralisks and Banelings have the splash damage covered. Many units took over Lurkers’ roles over the period of development, so they didn't think they were as valuable anymore. But we all do miss them!
Well this is our point of view. I think that Lurkers should not really be Tier2 in the current build, because they don't really fit in there and they wouldn't really be a good counter to Roaches, given the fact that ZvZ is a very dynamic matchup and you would probably still prefer Ultralisks or Broodlords at T3. What do you think about it?
Kapeselus. 2010-03-17. Blizzard please bring back Zerg Lurkers. StarCraft II Gameplay Discussion Forum. Accessed 2010-03-17.
man we have burrow roaches which can move while burrowed but we don't have things that can attack while cloaked
we also don't have any cliff mechanic units
no
fun
heh, i just kind of lolled at the thought of needing a separate upgrade to move stealthed ghosts
A thought just occurred to me. In the first game there were characters that the player "played", the commander in the Terran campaign, cebrate in the Zerg, and executor in the Protoss.
Is Matt from the Wings Of Liberty campaign suppose to be that character?
IIRC, the colonial "Magistrate" from SC1 is who you played in 1, and in the novels he was basically described as not being involved. Horner was a lower-ranking guy who was with Raynor from the start and went with him after the whole Tarsonis thing.
A thought just occurred to me. In the first game there were characters that the player "played", the commander in the Terran campaign, cebrate in the Zerg, and executor in the Protoss.
Is Matt from the Wings Of Liberty campaign suppose to be that character?
IIRC, the colonial "Magistrate" from SC1 is who you played in 1, and in the novels he was basically described as not being involved. Horner was a lower-ranking guy who was with Raynor from the start and went with him after the whole Tarsonis thing.
As the Starcraft wiki puts it:
StarCraft:
Terran: The "magistrate" leaves around 6 weeks after the fall of the Confederacy. Fate: Unkown. Zerg: The "cerebrate" gets killed by Zeratul. Fate: Deceased. Protoss: The "executor" is Artanis. Fate: Unkown.
Brood War:
Terran: You're a captain in the UED, killed by Kerrigan. Fate: Deceased. Zerg: You're an un-named cerebrate who has been captured by Kerrigan to serve her. Fate: Unknown. Protoss: You are Artanis again. Fate: Leader of the Khala Protoss.
Artanis being the player makes little sense as Artanis has been made a preator (like Fenix) and addresses you directly in Brood War as executor. Blizzard have retconned it to be Artanis in their backstory pages on the SC2 website, but a few people have pointed out it makes more sense if you're actually playing Selendis.
Arkyris on
0
Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
edited August 2010
Blizzard's popularity system for custom maps has to be the worst thing ever. Whatever the good maps are, I can't find them under the huge pile for junk, and for anything not featured on the first two pages you will never find enough players (and if you do they will all leave withing 4 minutes!). Awesome.
Blizzard's popularity system for custom maps has to be the worst thing ever. Whatever the good maps are, I can't find them under the huge pile for junk, and for anything not featured on the first two pages you will never find enough players (and if you do they will all leave withing 4 minutes!). Awesome.
Yeah I'm pretty disappointed in the new custom map interface. It was one of the worst parts of the WC3 b.net interface, and I assumed they realized that and would make fixing it a priority.
Terran: You're a captain in the UED, killed by Kerrigan. Fate: Deceased. Zerg: You're an un-named cerebrate who has been captured by Kerrigan to serve her. Fate: Unknown. Protoss: You are Artanis again. Fate: Leader of the Khala Protoss.
Artanis being the player makes little sense as Artanis has been made a preator (like Fenix) and addresses you directly in Brood War as executor. Blizzard have retconned it to be Artanis in their backstory pages on the SC2 website, but a few people have pointed out it makes more sense if you're actually playing Selendis.
There is *one* spot that calls Artanis the Executor in Brood War, and it *barely* does it at that (plus it was on their website - they've definately made story mistakes on their websites in the past). I personally say that's a typo/mistake. If they are going to go through the trouble of saying the others are real people, it makes no sense to have this one campaign with Artanis talking to himself :P
I do like the idea that you are Selendis in that campaign though.
That's what I did, but of course I didn't get the achievement. But everything else I've read seems to say you have to do it that way.
Maybe one of the missions you did doesn't count towards the total?
Eh? It doesn't matter which missions you do, you just have to beat the campaign (i.e., win All In). The fewer missions you do, the better, since it will lower your total mission time.
Blizzard's popularity system for custom maps has to be the worst thing ever. Whatever the good maps are, I can't find them under the huge pile for junk, and for anything not featured on the first two pages you will never find enough players (and if you do they will all leave withing 4 minutes!). Awesome.
Yeah I'm pretty disappointed in the new custom map interface. It was one of the worst parts of the WC3 b.net interface,
?
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Terran: You're a captain in the UED, killed by Kerrigan. Fate: Deceased. Zerg: You're an un-named cerebrate who has been captured by Kerrigan to serve her. Fate: Unknown. Protoss: You are Artanis again. Fate: Leader of the Khala Protoss.
Artanis being the player makes little sense as Artanis has been made a preator (like Fenix) and addresses you directly in Brood War as executor. Blizzard have retconned it to be Artanis in their backstory pages on the SC2 website, but a few people have pointed out it makes more sense if you're actually playing Selendis.
There is *one* spot that calls Artanis the Executor in Brood War, and it *barely* does it at that (plus it was on their website - they've definately made story mistakes on their websites in the past). I personally say that's a typo/mistake. If they are going to go through the trouble of saying the others are real people, it makes no sense to have this one campaign with Artanis talking to himself :P
I do like the idea that you are Selendis in that campaign though.
The books (which are an active retcon over the campaign, at least for Liberty's Crusade and Queen of Blades) have Artanis as the executor circa invasion of Auir timeline. (Specifically the part where the Protoss show up to arrest Tassadar and find him hanging out with humans)
IIRC, the Dark Templar trilogy also mention him as Executor during that specific timeframe (Protoss coming to Char), with Selendis as one of his assistants.
Posts
Having an instant build battlecruiser would have been pretty great.
Do upgrades apply to mercs? I thought they came fully upgraded?
Upgrades do apply to mercs, but if you don't have an upgrade, they won't have it. So the War Pigs, IIRC, have 75 hp normally, and if you get the shield they have 85.
I agree with this list. Medic/Marine/Marauder/Seige tank is how I basically do every map, except for those ones with a gimmic.
In terms of the protoss/zerg techs most are pretty obvious. I think this is the best list for brutal:
Protoss:
Faster Weapons
25% More Gas (macro should be fine to not need instant build depos)
Automated Refiniers (I went with double SCV production - definately a bad move)
Science Vessel
Tech Reactor
Zerg:
Undecided on the bunker, I went with the gun, but I think the extra health would be way more useful.
I went with perdition turrets, but again undecided on what would actually be better.
Hercules, marines do the job of the other unit 20x better.
I went with the regenerating biosteel, but with science vessels I don't think its needed, so the energy one is probably better.
Can't remember what the other zerg one is.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Building that slows nearby zerg or building that mind-controls them.
why were they cut, exactly?
A lot of the Terran upgrades weren't that great either
But I was just citing an example of accomplishing somewhat the same thing in a more realistic (as in something they might actually do) manner.
it's exciting tbh with all that baneling micro.
but yeah .. you NEED banelings.
Handmade Jewelry by me on EtsyGames for sale
Me on Twitch!
You'll need to produce several vikings at the end to absorb fire, but on the last base, use your air fleet to snipe the 2 battlecruisers before they can Yamato and then you've essentially won.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
man we have burrow roaches which can move while burrowed but we don't have things that can attack while cloaked
we also don't have any cliff mechanic units
no
fun
Is Matt from the Wings Of Liberty campaign suppose to be that character?
No, I'm pretty sure it's Jimmy.
heh, i just kind of lolled at the thought of needing a separate upgrade to move stealthed ghosts
Fire mission I just did with a Marine/Medic ball backed up by some seiges. Just keep pushing.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
IIRC, the colonial "Magistrate" from SC1 is who you played in 1, and in the novels he was basically described as not being involved. Horner was a lower-ranking guy who was with Raynor from the start and went with him after the whole Tarsonis thing.
As the Starcraft wiki puts it:
StarCraft:
Zerg: The "cerebrate" gets killed by Zeratul. Fate: Deceased.
Protoss: The "executor" is Artanis. Fate: Unkown.
Brood War:
Zerg: You're an un-named cerebrate who has been captured by Kerrigan to serve her. Fate: Unknown.
Protoss: You are Artanis again. Fate: Leader of the Khala Protoss.
Artanis being the player makes little sense as Artanis has been made a preator (like Fenix) and addresses you directly in Brood War as executor. Blizzard have retconned it to be Artanis in their backstory pages on the SC2 website, but a few people have pointed out it makes more sense if you're actually playing Selendis.
This should be a thing in game, without research.
i will assume you just mean for the singleplayer
Yeah I'm pretty disappointed in the new custom map interface. It was one of the worst parts of the WC3 b.net interface, and I assumed they realized that and would make fixing it a priority.
Nope!
It still wouldn't be as good as walling off. ZvZ might be a bit retarded though.
Anyway, zerg upgrades could get very interesting with all the creep, overlord, and larvae stuff. I can't wait.
There is *one* spot that calls Artanis the Executor in Brood War, and it *barely* does it at that (plus it was on their website - they've definately made story mistakes on their websites in the past). I personally say that's a typo/mistake. If they are going to go through the trouble of saying the others are real people, it makes no sense to have this one campaign with Artanis talking to himself :P
I do like the idea that you are Selendis in that campaign though.
suddenly zerg and protoss simply cannot attack zerg players until mid-late game
hooray
Is that picture they used new? Or is that a piece of WoL Concept Art?
Edit: Ok, I think it might actually be fan art. That would explain why it looks so weird.
...
Teach me, Master, for I am not worthy
(No really, how?)
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Youtube HOOOOOOOOOOOOoo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWHtY0Dud5E
The books (which are an active retcon over the campaign, at least for Liberty's Crusade and Queen of Blades) have Artanis as the executor circa invasion of Auir timeline. (Specifically the part where the Protoss show up to arrest Tassadar and find him hanging out with humans)
IIRC, the Dark Templar trilogy also mention him as Executor during that specific timeframe (Protoss coming to Char), with Selendis as one of his assistants.