I dunno, I remember being bored in Persona 3 a lot more than I ever was in Persona 4.
I guess that could be because the Persona 3 Social Links were almost entirely horrible (except for maybe two or three)
I don't think PS4 is a bad game, but as far as writing and story is concerned I felt PS3 was much better. This might have something to do with me never playing the English version or it may just come down to personal taste.
I fucking hated P3's pacing. It made me abandon the game halfway through a lot. P4 wasn't exactly hot either, but at least you had an actual plot during the entire game, unlike P3 where everything happens in the last few months.
I'd like P5 to be more old-school, but that's never going to happen, right?
I found P3 was better at keeping you drawn into the overall plot. More interesting things happened more frequently.
For months P4 was just "save person from television, ask them what happened, they don't remember". It really only picked up in the latter half of the game.
P4's plot is more interesting though in the sense that it's a tangible mystery that at least invokes a "who the hell is doing this" plot line. Whereas in P3, until the very end, it's basically OK GUYS 12 SHADOWS NEED TO DIE ONE PER MONTH, GIDDY UP. I didn't get a lot of tension in P3 until right toward the ending, whereas in P4 I was always wondering who the hell the culprit was.
P4's plot is more interesting though in the sense that it's a tangible mystery that at least invokes a "who the hell is doing this" plot line. Whereas in P3, until the very end, it's basically OK GUYS 12 SHADOWS NEED TO DIE ONE PER MONTH, GIDDY UP. I didn't get a lot of tension in P3 until right toward the ending, whereas in P4 I was always wondering who the hell the culprit was.
I felt tension was much higher in P3 because the world itself was so confusing that it provoked a nearly endless stream of questions from the player.
Why do 12 shadows need to be killed?
Who's that weird kid who visits you at night?
What is Tartarus? Why does it appear where the school is?
Why does the dark hour exist, and how come only certain people can experience it?
Why is the world slowly becoming depressed?
Why is Itstsuki and the Nanjo family running SEES?
What is Aegis, why does it exist?
Persona 3's mystery is the world, and understanding the situation that you find yourself in. Persona 4 just has a murder mystery. And, to be honest, I think the mystery of P4 is really weak. It's hard to think of a more boring conclusion to a mystery than the criminal is a pathological killer and he used magic to commit his crimes. P4 certainly succeeds in other areas with social links, music, art design and dungeons.
Which reminds me, how is the Persona remake on PSP?
The problem with both stories (for me) is the use of logic. In both games, characters are faced with impossible, magical situations; and yet they continue to apply basic logic to everything.
In P3, The Midnight Hour apparently freezes the universe and turns people into coffins (except for some people). There is nothing in human experience that can possibly explain how these things could happen. And yet...
Yukari suddenly announces near the end of the game that the final battle will probably remove all their memories. And this makes sense because yada yada yada. And everyone responds with "oh yeah, that must be true." What!?! Everything in the story should have convinced you that the human mind is incapable of understanding the powers that surround us! You can't just assume that you KNOW what will happen because it sort of makes some kind of sense. Oh, I guess it's also convenient for the story. Never mind, then it probably will happen.
P4 has the same issue for me. Once they've learned about the TV World, I don't see how they can continue to safely assume anything about the "killer." Obviously, magic (or something like it) is real. Why couldn't the killer be an invisible space zebra that kills people with its mind? No, I'm asking a question. Why not??? How would it make any less sense than the TV World???
But P4 does handle it a bit better, since the ending does stick pretty closely to the supernatural rules they established at the start. Also "a goddess did it," is oddly more satisfying of an explanation than the pseudo-science of P3.
I think more situations like this should end with characters questioning their sanity. It looks like that's what will happen in Catherine, so, awesome.
Did anyone actually confirm Persona 5 for PS3? Or are people just assuming this? Considering the booming market for Japanese handheld games, 3DS seems just as likely.
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited January 2011
Meh, P3 wasn't really all the tense until the last few months where shit was going down. Before then it was your basic monster of the week(month) setup.
That being said I can't say I thought the pacing in P3 or P4 was all that tense. You had pretty obvious deadlines to do things and the little "Days skipped without telling you" didn't add to that as much as it annoyed me because I had to move my schedule around.
Did anyone actually confirm Persona 5 for PS3? Or are people just assuming this? Considering the booming market for Japanese handheld games, 3DS seems just as likely.
Pretty sure it's wishful thinking based on Catherine coming out, which just means I get to laugh my butt off if it does come out for the 3DS.
Watching series go to handhelds and seeing the fanboys wail abut it is probably the best thing about this generation. I only really game on handhelds anymore, so it's a total win for me! Though I will be annoyed if they rehash P3 AGAIN for P5. Cripes. I don't need another dating sim, thanks. (watch P5 be a dating sim on the 3DS just to annoy everyone)
The problem with both stories (for me) is the use of logic. In both games, characters are faced with impossible, magical situations; and yet they continue to apply basic logic to everything.
In P3, The Midnight Hour apparently freezes the universe and turns people into coffins (except for some people). There is nothing in human experience that can possibly explain how these things could happen. And yet...
Yukari suddenly announces near the end of the game that the final battle will probably remove all their memories. And this makes sense because yada yada yada. And everyone responds with "oh yeah, that must be true." What!?! Everything in the story should have convinced you that the human mind is incapable of understanding the powers that surround us! You can't just assume that you KNOW what will happen because it sort of makes some kind of sense. Oh, I guess it's also convenient for the story. Never mind, then it probably will happen.
P4 has the same issue for me. Once they've learned about the TV World, I don't see how they can continue to safely assume anything about the "killer." Obviously, magic (or something like it) is real. Why couldn't the killer be an invisible space zebra that kills people with its mind? No, I'm asking a question. Why not??? How would it make any less sense than the TV World???
But P4 does handle it a bit better, since the ending does stick pretty closely to the supernatural rules they established at the start. Also "a goddess did it," is oddly more satisfying of an explanation than the pseudo-science of P3.
I think more situations like this should end with characters questioning their sanity. It looks like that's what will happen in Catherine, so, awesome.
The human mind doesn't really just "give up" on logic. Even when we can't know about something we still try and piece it together, do what we can. Everything follows some sort of rules and it's in our nature to try and figure out what we can based off of the rules we know, even if we're going to end up being wrong.
Which reminds me, how is the Persona remake on PSP?
Compared to the original: it's a little bit harder and prettier (still really easy and semi-ugly, though), the music is a whole lot worse, and the translation is a whole lot better.
In terms of how it is as a game, I like it more than Persona 3, but that really speaks more to how much I dislike Persona 3 than how good Persona 1 is.
The problem with both stories (for me) is the use of logic. In both games, characters are faced with impossible, magical situations; and yet they continue to apply basic logic to everything.
In P3, The Midnight Hour apparently freezes the universe and turns people into coffins (except for some people). There is nothing in human experience that can possibly explain how these things could happen. And yet...
Yukari suddenly announces near the end of the game that the final battle will probably remove all their memories. And this makes sense because yada yada yada. And everyone responds with "oh yeah, that must be true." What!?! Everything in the story should have convinced you that the human mind is incapable of understanding the powers that surround us! You can't just assume that you KNOW what will happen because it sort of makes some kind of sense. Oh, I guess it's also convenient for the story. Never mind, then it probably will happen.
P4 has the same issue for me. Once they've learned about the TV World, I don't see how they can continue to safely assume anything about the "killer." Obviously, magic (or something like it) is real. Why couldn't the killer be an invisible space zebra that kills people with its mind? No, I'm asking a question. Why not??? How would it make any less sense than the TV World???
But P4 does handle it a bit better, since the ending does stick pretty closely to the supernatural rules they established at the start. Also "a goddess did it," is oddly more satisfying of an explanation than the pseudo-science of P3.
I think more situations like this should end with characters questioning their sanity. It looks like that's what will happen in Catherine, so, awesome.
The human mind doesn't really just "give up" on logic. Even when we can't know about something we still try and piece it together, do what we can. Everything follows some sort of rules and it's in our nature to try and figure out what we can based off of the rules we know, even if we're going to end up being wrong.
I think there's a big difference between accepting a fantasy world and accepting a fantasy murder-mystery. With the former we're willing not to think about the logical problems too deeply because it's fantasy from start to finish. As long as the fantasy logic has internal consistancy there shouldn't be a problem. The latter, at least as a game genre, is absolutely reliant on logical deduction. There's no way to solve the mystery if the rules of reality simply don't apply to the gameworld.
Which reminds me, how is the Persona remake on PSP?
The music and translation are both a lot better and the load times are a lot shorter. Cutscenes have been redone as has the world map graphics. Gameplay is still pretty unbalanced though (you'll get uber personas at low levels - stuff like that).
The problem with both stories (for me) is the use of logic. In both games, characters are faced with impossible, magical situations; and yet they continue to apply basic logic to everything.
In P3, The Midnight Hour apparently freezes the universe and turns people into coffins (except for some people). There is nothing in human experience that can possibly explain how these things could happen. And yet...
Yukari suddenly announces near the end of the game that the final battle will probably remove all their memories. And this makes sense because yada yada yada. And everyone responds with "oh yeah, that must be true." What!?! Everything in the story should have convinced you that the human mind is incapable of understanding the powers that surround us! You can't just assume that you KNOW what will happen because it sort of makes some kind of sense. Oh, I guess it's also convenient for the story. Never mind, then it probably will happen.
P4 has the same issue for me. Once they've learned about the TV World, I don't see how they can continue to safely assume anything about the "killer." Obviously, magic (or something like it) is real. Why couldn't the killer be an invisible space zebra that kills people with its mind? No, I'm asking a question. Why not??? How would it make any less sense than the TV World???
But P4 does handle it a bit better, since the ending does stick pretty closely to the supernatural rules they established at the start. Also "a goddess did it," is oddly more satisfying of an explanation than the pseudo-science of P3.
I think more situations like this should end with characters questioning their sanity. It looks like that's what will happen in Catherine, so, awesome.
The human mind doesn't really just "give up" on logic. Even when we can't know about something we still try and piece it together, do what we can. Everything follows some sort of rules and it's in our nature to try and figure out what we can based off of the rules we know, even if we're going to end up being wrong.
I think there's a big difference between accepting a fantasy world and accepting a fantasy murder-mystery. With the former we're willing not to think about the logical problems too deeply because it's fantasy from start to finish. As long as the fantasy logic has internal consistancy there shouldn't be a problem. The latter, at least as a game genre, is absolutely reliant on logical deduction. There's no way to solve the mystery if the rules of reality simply don't apply to the gameworld.
Well regarding the P3 spoiler
I guess they could assume they would forget since that is what would have happened if they had killed Ryoji? I see where you are coming from though in that they treat it as absolute fact instead of as just one of the possible outcomes.
Regarding this P2 remake, is this the one that was released in the U.S? And are the games related to one another, like is one a sequel or something? Basically I want to know if I should try to track down the PSone version and play it before this makes it stateside, or if I can wait for a remake of the other P2.
This is not the one released in the US, and it's a prequel to the one that was. Basically, first there was Innocent Sin, which is currently getting a remake. Then they made a direct sequel, Eternal Punishment, that got released in the US and does not currently have a remake in the cards. There are lots of rumours going around as to why IS never got released in the US but the most likely are that Atlus USA just didn't have the time and money back then.
So it's probably not worth tracking down the PSX Eternal Punishment unless somehow we don't get it remade on the PSP.
MarsDragon on
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
This is kind of off-topic, but not really; all these western games Atlus USA is announcing has me somewhat worried. Like the old company is totally gone. I pray IS and Catherine's announcements are waiting to prove me wrong.
cj iwakura on
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The AnonymousUh, uh, uhhhhhh...Uh, uh.Registered Userregular
edited January 2011
You have a problem with them making money?
The Anonymous on
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Not at all. I do have a problem with all the games they normally would be localizing, but aren't.
I'm used to obscure games that no one else would localize, not WRPGs that anyone could localize.
I think they are just doing more publishing in general, not translating the games. You know, they put the games in boxes, get extra money to funnel into translating their normal kind of games.
elliotw2 on
XBL:Elliotw3|PSN:elliotw2
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Yeah, but so far their 2011 'localization' schedule consists of... Radiant Historia.
Did they announce Catherine yet? I'd be really surprised if they didn't. Persona seems to be pretty popular and "from the makers of Persona" could probably make some sales. It would work for me if I wasn't already sold on the art and weird premise.
Jurg on
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
This is kind of off-topic, but not really; all these western games Atlus USA is announcing has me somewhat worried. Like the old company is totally gone. I pray IS and Catherine's announcements are waiting to prove me wrong.
That is some serious overreaction. I mean besides those two what else do they even have to announce? There's pretty much nothing coming out by ATLUS or Sting in the next few months.
Xenogears of Bore on
3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I'd like to think they'd have taken more risks on the many, many games coming out of Japan no one is stepping up to localize.
I don't even know what you could be referring to besides some shitty Idea Factory game no one but the most hardcore of all JRPG fans would even know about.
Xenogears of Bore on
3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
You may wish to stop and consider why no one is stepping up to localize all these high-risk, tiny-niche games. Having taken many risks in the past that don't pan out makes one more wary of taking risks in the future.
Bursar on
GNU Terry Pratchett
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
Dreams are for nancy boys. Quickly, now! Fall madly in love with a very nice Japanese lady and work like a man possessed to learn her native tongue only to discover that she's been promised to a Mafia Don working out of Sweden and embark on a wild and crazy adventure in the seedy underbelly of Eastern Europe to secure the future of your unborn children.
Along the way you can play those games of theirs and laugh at us English speakers.
It'll be perfect.
Basil on
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I don't know what you're on, but I'm sure some of those crazy developers would find use for your writing.
Posts
I don't think PS4 is a bad game, but as far as writing and story is concerned I felt PS3 was much better. This might have something to do with me never playing the English version or it may just come down to personal taste.
I'd like P5 to be more old-school, but that's never going to happen, right?
For months P4 was just "save person from television, ask them what happened, they don't remember". It really only picked up in the latter half of the game.
I felt tension was much higher in P3 because the world itself was so confusing that it provoked a nearly endless stream of questions from the player.
Who's that weird kid who visits you at night?
What is Tartarus? Why does it appear where the school is?
Why does the dark hour exist, and how come only certain people can experience it?
Why is the world slowly becoming depressed?
Why is Itstsuki and the Nanjo family running SEES?
What is Aegis, why does it exist?
Persona 3's mystery is the world, and understanding the situation that you find yourself in. Persona 4 just has a murder mystery. And, to be honest, I think the mystery of P4 is really weak. It's hard to think of a more boring conclusion to a mystery than the criminal is a pathological killer and he used magic to commit his crimes. P4 certainly succeeds in other areas with social links, music, art design and dungeons.
Which reminds me, how is the Persona remake on PSP?
In P3, The Midnight Hour apparently freezes the universe and turns people into coffins (except for some people). There is nothing in human experience that can possibly explain how these things could happen. And yet...
P4 has the same issue for me. Once they've learned about the TV World, I don't see how they can continue to safely assume anything about the "killer." Obviously, magic (or something like it) is real. Why couldn't the killer be an invisible space zebra that kills people with its mind? No, I'm asking a question. Why not??? How would it make any less sense than the TV World???
I think more situations like this should end with characters questioning their sanity. It looks like that's what will happen in Catherine, so, awesome.
That being said I can't say I thought the pacing in P3 or P4 was all that tense. You had pretty obvious deadlines to do things and the little "Days skipped without telling you" didn't add to that as much as it annoyed me because I had to move my schedule around.
Pretty sure it's wishful thinking based on Catherine coming out, which just means I get to laugh my butt off if it does come out for the 3DS.
Watching series go to handhelds and seeing the fanboys wail abut it is probably the best thing about this generation. I only really game on handhelds anymore, so it's a total win for me! Though I will be annoyed if they rehash P3 AGAIN for P5. Cripes. I don't need another dating sim, thanks. (watch P5 be a dating sim on the 3DS just to annoy everyone)
The human mind doesn't really just "give up" on logic. Even when we can't know about something we still try and piece it together, do what we can. Everything follows some sort of rules and it's in our nature to try and figure out what we can based off of the rules we know, even if we're going to end up being wrong.
In terms of how it is as a game, I like it more than Persona 3, but that really speaks more to how much I dislike Persona 3 than how good Persona 1 is.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I think there's a big difference between accepting a fantasy world and accepting a fantasy murder-mystery. With the former we're willing not to think about the logical problems too deeply because it's fantasy from start to finish. As long as the fantasy logic has internal consistancy there shouldn't be a problem. The latter, at least as a game genre, is absolutely reliant on logical deduction. There's no way to solve the mystery if the rules of reality simply don't apply to the gameworld.
The music and translation are both a lot better and the load times are a lot shorter. Cutscenes have been redone as has the world map graphics. Gameplay is still pretty unbalanced though (you'll get uber personas at low levels - stuff like that).
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Well regarding the P3 spoiler
Regarding this P2 remake, is this the one that was released in the U.S? And are the games related to one another, like is one a sequel or something? Basically I want to know if I should try to track down the PSone version and play it before this makes it stateside, or if I can wait for a remake of the other P2.
So it's probably not worth tracking down the PSX Eternal Punishment unless somehow we don't get it remade on the PSP.
I'm used to obscure games that no one else would localize, not WRPGs that anyone could localize.
At least Radiant Historia sounds rather good.
And Atlus has always localized games with more widespread appeal in addition to their niche stuff.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Preorder bonus cards! Maybe I'll get them, maybe not.
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/01/25/catherine_retail_bonuses/
More there, NSFWish.
So, you have a problem with them not losing money?
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
Heck, maybe two copies.
That is some serious overreaction. I mean besides those two what else do they even have to announce? There's pretty much nothing coming out by ATLUS or Sting in the next few months.
-Wizardry PS3
-Wizardry DS
-SRT OG Saga Exceed
-Growlanser
-7th Dragon
-some obscure shmups(yeah right)
Heck, just browse the Atlus suggestion MB. There's quite a few gems being mentioned there on the regular.
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
Along the way you can play those games of theirs and laugh at us English speakers.
It'll be perfect.