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[BIOSHOCK INFINITE] Experience digital jingoism March 26th.

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    CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Dragon6860 wrote: »
    I just had a crazy tearjearker theory.
    How does Booker know to play the guitar, and that particular song? And how does Elizabeth know it from just hearing the first bit? Cause Booker used to sing it to her when she was a baby.

    Oh glob. Oh glob why.

    PSN:CaptainNemo1138
    Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
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    HounHoun Registered User regular
    Dragon6860 wrote: »
    I just had a crazy tearjearker theory.
    How does Booker know to play the guitar, and that particular song? And how does Elizabeth know it from just hearing the first bit? Cause Booker used to sing it to her when she was a baby.

    Oh man. Fuck you. I didn't need that.

    D:

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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Houn wrote: »
    Minerva_SC wrote: »
    Just beat it. Easily the worst of the 3 games, and doesn't deserve half the praise it gets. The world was pretty, and the characters were interesting and well written, at least when it came to the recordings you find scattered around, but other than that it was a pretty straight forward shooter, and Elizabeth ranks pretty low on the "video game companion" tier list. It was also easy as balls for 90% of the game, the difficulty spike towards the end was nice though. I'd give it a 6/10.

    I believe that these two statements are what is causing you trouble. If you didn't like, it, coo. You get your opinion.

    These two statements are pretty broad and beg for additional clarification.

    1. If a game is nearly universally loved by critics and gamers, how is the praise not deserved?
    2. If a Game Companion that is nearly universally loved is rated low on your "tier list", what examples do you feel are better ones?

    You know, instead of walking in and dropping controversy, discuss some controversy. I'm down to debate. ;-)

    While I like your attempt to bring forth more debate on what you noted as items that needed clarification. That post just screams dissident opinion for the sake of being dissident. Just your standard fair on this wondrous net we have. I actually saw women jumping on a picture of the beautiful Marilyn Monroe tonight on Facebook stating that she was fat!

    Jubal77 on
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    VeganVegan Registered User regular
    I want to see
    Some group Elizabeth cosplay, all the iterations that appeared at the end.
    People just have to be working on that as we speak.

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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Vegan wrote: »
    I want to see
    Some group Elizabeth cosplay, all the iterations that appeared at the end.
    People just have to be working on that as we speak.

    And that is the main reason I am almost a sure thing for PAX West next year! :)

    Jubal77 on
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    Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Dragon6860 wrote: »
    I just had a crazy tearjearker theory.
    How does Booker know to play the guitar, and that particular song? And how does Elizabeth know it from just hearing the first bit? Cause Booker used to sing it to her when she was a baby.

    That's so sad.
    I love it.
    That scene actually reminded me painfully of my own dad; he used to play guitar for me all the time.

    *edit* We're at 100 pages, don't we need a new thread?

    Lucid_Seraph on
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    CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    I just thought of the one thing that could make it worse.
    seriously
    It was the hymn at Mrs. DeWitts funeral. That's why Booker can never forget the tune.

    PSN:CaptainNemo1138
    Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
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    JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    Beat the game and love it on every level possible.

    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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    Captain ElevenCaptain Eleven The last card is a kronk Registered User regular
    I just thought of the one thing that could make it worse.
    seriously
    It was the hymn at Mrs. DeWitts funeral. That's why Booker can never forget the tune.

    Oh thanks for nothing, you guys.

    THANKS FOR NOTHING.
    7686178464_fdc8ea66c7.jpg

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    CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    I warned you.

    On the subject of anachronistic music, an oldtimey Sound of Silence would be perfect for a DLC.

    PSN:CaptainNemo1138
    Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
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    VeganVegan Registered User regular
    This game would make such a good novel if taken seriously. I think about how the mere fact that it's a video game limits the size of its audience.

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    Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Y'all keep this shit up and I'mma have to start writing sad fanfic.

    anyway should someone start the new thread?

    Title suggestion:

    "Sploicers, I mean, spoilers."

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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Ending spoilers
    I didn't think to look but when Booker drowns Comstock, are we able to see Comstock's right hand? Does it have the brand? And why did Comstock kill Lady Comstock if he wanted to blab the secret of Elizabeth's origin anyways?

    EDIT: Wait, what am I thinking? Of course he wouldn't have that.

    emnmnme on
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    Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    so my lingering question is
    what brought the lucetes and comstock together in the first place and why were they working for him? It seemed like the brother was guilty about elizabeth and wanted to return her but the sister was too interested in E's potential. but why help this whackjob kidnap a baby in the place?

    what makes Elizabeth special in the first place?

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    knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    so my lingering question is
    what brought the lucetes and comstock together in the first place and why were they working for him? It seemed like the brother was guilty about elizabeth and wanted to return her but the sister was too interested in E's potential. but why help this whackjob kidnap a baby in the place?

    what makes Elizabeth special in the first place?
    Comstock had seen through "prophecy" (a vision of another world through Lutece's Tear machine) that his child would be the one to fulfill his vision for Columbia. But all that messing about with the multiverse had made him sterile, so he had to get a baby from a version of himself that had one. The Lutece's helped him for SCIENCE!

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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    DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    so my lingering question is
    what brought the lucetes and comstock together in the first place and why were they working for him? It seemed like the brother was guilty about elizabeth and wanted to return her but the sister was too interested in E's potential. but why help this whackjob kidnap a baby in the place?

    what makes Elizabeth special in the first place?
    Comstock had seen through "prophecy" (a vision of another world through Lutece's Tear machine) that his child would be the one to fulfill his vision for Columbia. But all that messing about with the multiverse had made him sterile, so he had to get a baby from a version of himself that had one. The Lutece's helped him for SCIENCE!

    Well...
    If you remember from the baby taking scene, Robert was reluctant to go through the tear, the discussion they were having made it sound like he'd never been through one before, so that might've also been the first time they were united? Not entirely sure what that means exactly but, interesting anyway.

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    knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    I think he was reluctant because it was unstable, so he was afraid of getting caught between and losing ...parts. Kind of like what happens to baby Anna's finger.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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    Minerva_SCMinerva_SC Registered User regular
    Vegan wrote: »
    This game would make such a good novel if taken seriously. I think about how the mere fact that it's a video game limits the size of its audience.

    After reading up on all the theories and info people have gathered, I agree 100% with this. I feel as a video game, Bioshock Infinite was pretty "okay", but as a (sorta spoiler)
    Time based story

    It is absolutely fascinating and hit's all the right buttons. I see it as a compelling and smart universe and story held back and mucked up by being a FPS video game.

    "If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
    I'm dead serious."
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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Y'all keep this shit up and I'mma have to start writing sad fanfic.

    anyway should someone start the new thread?

    Title suggestion:

    "Sploicers, I mean, spoilers."

    "Bring us the girl, and consolidate all your debts into one convenient monthly payment."

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    Big ClassyBig Classy Registered User regular
    "This many spoilers inside, you know its good!"
    Dranyth wrote: »
    knitdan wrote: »
    so my lingering question is
    what brought the lucetes and comstock together in the first place and why were they working for him? It seemed like the brother was guilty about elizabeth and wanted to return her but the sister was too interested in E's potential. but why help this whackjob kidnap a baby in the place?

    what makes Elizabeth special in the first place?
    Comstock had seen through "prophecy" (a vision of another world through Lutece's Tear machine) that his child would be the one to fulfill his vision for Columbia. But all that messing about with the multiverse had made him sterile, so he had to get a baby from a version of himself that had one. The Lutece's helped him for SCIENCE!

    Well...
    If you remember from the baby taking scene, Robert was reluctant to go through the tear, the discussion they were having made it sound like he'd never been through one before, so that might've also been the first time they were united? Not entirely sure what that means exactly but, interesting anyway.
    There's an audiolog (lord knows their actual ingame name) from the 'sister' that talks about how she finally finds her brother through a tear. Except its not her brother but her. They're one and the same person existing in the same universe now which is why they're finishing each others' sentences and such. It also explains the little videolog thingy where it shows that nobody was aware she even had a brother.

    My guess is that her and Comstock were working on this machine together and when he became sterile through experimentation, she put forth the suggestion of finding a child from another Universe. So they Tear into multiple until eventually they come across the one in which the Player Booker and male Lutece reside. Bring the 'brother' through and explain everything and hey presto, things are in motion.

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    DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    Big Classy wrote: »
    "This many spoilers inside, you know its good!"
    Dranyth wrote: »
    knitdan wrote: »
    so my lingering question is
    what brought the lucetes and comstock together in the first place and why were they working for him? It seemed like the brother was guilty about elizabeth and wanted to return her but the sister was too interested in E's potential. but why help this whackjob kidnap a baby in the place?

    what makes Elizabeth special in the first place?
    Comstock had seen through "prophecy" (a vision of another world through Lutece's Tear machine) that his child would be the one to fulfill his vision for Columbia. But all that messing about with the multiverse had made him sterile, so he had to get a baby from a version of himself that had one. The Lutece's helped him for SCIENCE!

    Well...
    If you remember from the baby taking scene, Robert was reluctant to go through the tear, the discussion they were having made it sound like he'd never been through one before, so that might've also been the first time they were united? Not entirely sure what that means exactly but, interesting anyway.
    There's an audiolog (lord knows their actual ingame name) from the 'sister' that talks about how she finally finds her brother through a tear. Except its not her brother but her. They're one and the same person existing in the same universe now which is why they're finishing each others' sentences and such. It also explains the little videolog thingy where it shows that nobody was aware she even had a brother.

    My guess is that her and Comstock were working on this machine together and when he became sterile through experimentation, she put forth the suggestion of finding a child from another Universe. So they Tear into multiple until eventually they come across the one in which the Player Booker and male Lutece reside. Bring the 'brother' through and explain everything and hey presto, things are in motion.
    Well, yes, I'm well aware that they're the same person. There's plenty of voxophone evidence towards that. In fact, from some of the voxophone logs from Rosalind, it's obvious that she has been aware of her 'brother's' existence for quite a while, the one that talks about them using the quantum entanglement theory to send messages to each other 'through the walls'. It obviously fuels her drive towards creating the machine that opens the tears in the first place.

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    Big ClassyBig Classy Registered User regular
    That's more for people who may have missed the voxophone logs.

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    HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2013
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    Big Classy wrote: »
    I do want to go on record as feeling that this game is very console-port-ish. The weapon limit, lack of inventory etc. I dunno, it just rubbed me up wrong. Its a great one but a port imo nonetheless.

    Rambling Theory on the weapon limits:
    I was actually thinking about this last night. So, through the game, you can only hold two weapons, but you can flip between all your vigors. Seems an odd choice, but then it suddenly made sense to me. This is a game that spends a lot of time dealing with the themes of choice and regret; the weapon limitation is just another facet of it. Booker is a man on a mission due largely to his regret over the choices he's made (or at least, in his head he is), and imposing a small limit on the weapons you carry causes the player to frequently make similar choices, albeit on a smaller scale. How many times did you trade your sniper for an RPG, only to wish you had the sniper back a short time later?

    On the other hand (literally), you can use any Vigor you've collected at any time. Vigors are basically MAGIC!, and like all MAGIC!, they don't have to follow the rules of the world. Just like Elizabeth; Chen Lin is dead? Let's just use MAGIC! to circumvent the normal order of things.

    You can very neatly tie each back to Booker, a man who is, after all, just a man, and defined and haunted by the choices he must make, or to Elizabeth can disrupt the natural order of things and for whom no choice has permanent consequence.

    That's an awesome view of it, personally, I'm more utilitarian:
    the weapons are rather large and bulky. I thought it was pretty silly that you carried around a metric ton of metal with you towards the end game. Sure, you're a Big Daddy, but how goldurn big are your pockets to fit a flamethrower, rocket launcher, crossbow, tommy gun, etc.? This is very simple, I find it very reasonable that you can have a Carbine in hand, and a Shotgun slung around the back. It can be argued that you can also holster a pistol to your waist, but you also got that Sky Hook already taking up space. There is a lot of hardware on your character at any given time. Having two weapons makes a lot of sense from a physical realism perspective on a giant floating city, which already streches the limits of what is theorhetically possible. Also it keeps the pace of battle vigorous, as your emptying out a gun, throwing it to the floor, picking up another one and just going through that way. I tend to Occam's Razor a lot of things, though :P

    Whereas I think there are weapon limits
    since why would you ever need anything but the Carbine and the Handcannon. :p Once I got those I never dropped them for the rest of the game and never really had ammo issues. Incredibly powerful.

    I too, had those weapons all the time.

    And the gear that made people in an area around your target be electrocuted whenever you killed someone with excessive violence. It was fucking amazing. I blow the head off someone, all his friends get electrocuted while I line the next headshot up - repeat.

    Honk on
    PSN: Honkalot
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    NuzakNuzak Registered User regular
    the carbine and handcannon kinda limit you when you're in a tight spot. i usually traded the carbine for either an RPG or volley gun if i'm up against heavy hitters or a sniper rifle/shotgun/machine gun if i'm pinned down

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    KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    I wonder how causality works in the Bioshock universe.
    If we assume that drowning Booker during the baptism erases Comstock then the whole thing ends up being a grandfather paradox. No Comstock means no Elizabeth and that means no one drowns Booker during the baptism.

    The only way for it to work is if Elizabeth is somehow removed from the chain of causality, if she exists outside of time, becoming like the Prophets in Star Trek or the Elder God in Legacy of Kain.

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    WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    Vegan wrote: »
    I want to see
    Some group Elizabeth cosplay, all the iterations that appeared at the end.
    People just have to be working on that as we speak.

    Oh yeah. Speaking of... that bit.
    Why wasn't there a male Elizabeth in the crowd? I mean, the Luteces are the same people from different universes, yet one of them's a man and the other's a woman. So why not have one male Elizabeth in there?

    Well, perhaps it would have ruined the moment.

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    Fists of DissentFists of Dissent Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    So, here are the three DLCs I want to see. Ending spoilers ahoy.
    1. Playable Songbird
    2. More 1984 Columbia
    3. The Luteces showing us Wounded Knee as Booker, Beijing as Slate, and Paris under siege by Columbia as Elizabeth
    Number 3 is exactly what I don't want to see. Part of the reason the ending works so well is because the game doesn't make you go through a "No Indian" level so you go along with Booker until you discover what a horrible person he really is at the end. Also it's tasteless.

    Going on things said by Irrational team members about the game having 3-4 games worth of cut contect, I'm guessing that at least some of that content will end up being released as DLC, so we might even get to see Saltonstall.
    Maybe a DLC that has you playing a soon-to-be-martyred Booker fighting Saltonstall during the Vox Revolution.



    Fists of Dissent on

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    HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Nuzak wrote: »
    the carbine and handcannon kinda limit you when you're in a tight spot. i usually traded the carbine for either an RPG or volley gun if i'm up against heavy hitters or a sniper rifle/shotgun/machine gun if i'm pinned down
    I dunno, the upgraded handcannon is as powerful against single targets as a not upgraded rpg. Took down patriots without shooting their weak spot in 4 or 5 hits.

    I also had gear that extended both clips and side-ammo. That coupled with Elizabeth looking for ammunition and tossing it to me made it work great.

    PSN: Honkalot
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    BritishDavidBritishDavid Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    wounded knee could be done tastefully, i imagine
    a cloud of gun fire and smoke rising above a hill, sounds of screams, you come over the hill and see loads of bodies, and maybe one or two Indians getting picked off, maybe one running away and you can choose to shoot him or let him go. It doesn't have to be the equivalent of "NO RUSSIAN"

    i hope the DLC plays more with
    Time Travel
    and booker trying to fix his past.


    the reality of DLC is that they have to use existing assets in the game, so, rather disappointingly, i expect to see a Vox Populi uprising first hand.

    More song bird would no go a miss.

    BritishDavid on
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    Xbox | x Dredgen Yor x |
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    TavTav Irish Minister for DefenceRegistered User regular
    Vegan wrote: »
    This game would make such a good novel if taken seriously. I think about how the mere fact that it's a video game limits the size of its audience.

    Not really? I mean, there are a lot more gamers nowadays than there are people who regularly read, and I'm willing to bet there is a fair overlap between gamers and people who read sci-fi novels anyway. I doubt they're really missing out on too much of an audience.

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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Okay, so I just did the first 'big' gunfight with all the mechanics in play (when you exit the hall of heroes is the first time I noticed having Skyhooks, tears, guns and vigours all available).

    Holy hell.

    I'd actually love a co-op follow up to this purely from the point of view of the world is so pretty and the fighting so flexible that it'd be something I play constantly.

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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    What is the Songbird? There's supposed to be a living person in there not unlike the Handymen but the Songbird is mindless and controlled by flute toots.

    Ending spoilers
    After the Songbird destroyed Monument Island and went berserk, I can't decide if it was flying over to rescue Elizabeth or kill both her and Booker. Songbird's got a bad habit of getting too enthusiastic, tearing apart whatever ship Elizabeth is in mid-flight.

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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    You know, usually after playing a game for a while I have a list of things I don't like much. Honestly with Bioshock the list is shrinking as I get more used to 2 weapons and 'deaths cost money not time'.

    About the only thing I think would have helped the game is a soft cover system where if you ADS while facing a wall Booker auto peeks out the side like in Call of Juarez. Even that'd just be a minor quality of life thing.

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    TavTav Irish Minister for DefenceRegistered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What is the Songbird? There's supposed to be a living person in there not unlike the Handymen but the Songbird is mindless and controlled by flute toots.

    Ending spoilers
    After the Songbird destroyed Monument Island and went berserk, I can't decide if it was flying over to rescue Elizabeth or kill both her and Booker. Songbird's got a bad habit of getting too enthusiastic, tearing apart whatever ship Elizabeth is in mid-flight.
    From what I've gathered but could be wrong,
    It was designed by the Lucetes to keep Elizabeth from becoming too powerful. Any time she started becoming too proficient at using her powers, Songbird would show up to put her back in her place. When she escaped with Booker, it went to get her back.

    fakeefit: I just realised this doesn't explain at all why Songbird spared Booker before Comstock House.

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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Two things;

    DLC I want to see;
    Comstock's lost time. There's no way a 19 year old founds a huge flying city. Sure, the tears aged him some, but there must be a story about how he got a buttload of money and a major religious following in just a few years. If Liz is 20 at the start of the game, non-Comstock Booker had to have had her at 18 or 19, which doesn't really fit the timeline there with the whole army enlistment before Wounded Knee thing. Shenanigans are at work, I want to see them.

    Ending spoilers about non-ending stuff;
    Did anyone else catch the quantum immortality stuff involving Booker deaths when Liz isn't around? It really looks like we're effectively cutting to a universe where you didn't die.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    I just realized something. What was up with the red tears?
    There were two in the game and they played music. I wonder if there was more to them.

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    azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Vegan wrote: »
    I want to see
    Some group Elizabeth cosplay, all the iterations that appeared at the end.
    People just have to be working on that as we speak.

    Oh yeah. Speaking of... that bit.
    Why wasn't there a male Elizabeth in the crowd? I mean, the Luteces are the same people from different universes, yet one of them's a man and the other's a woman. So why not have one male Elizabeth in there?

    Well, perhaps it would have ruined the moment.

    Because:
    While the divergent timeline was created when the baptism decided booker or dewitt, the infinite loop of causality of booker and comstock started when elizabeth was born and sold. So shes always going to be a girl.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
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    azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    I just realized something. What was up with the red tears?
    There were two in the game and they played music. I wonder if there was more to them.
    a few audiophones referred to that. One of the businessmen was stealing music ideas from the rifts, which is why you hear a lot of modern music with oldie tones. Those rifts were more or less permanent, probably leading to record stores or clubs.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
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    azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Okay, so I just did the first 'big' gunfight with all the mechanics in play (when you exit the hall of heroes is the first time I noticed having Skyhooks, tears, guns and vigours all available).

    Holy hell.

    I'd actually love a co-op follow up to this purely from the point of view of the world is so pretty and the fighting so flexible that it'd be something I play constantly.

    Get your co-op / multiplayer fantasies out of my bioshock.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
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    ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Tav wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What is the Songbird? There's supposed to be a living person in there not unlike the Handymen but the Songbird is mindless and controlled by flute toots.

    Ending spoilers
    After the Songbird destroyed Monument Island and went berserk, I can't decide if it was flying over to rescue Elizabeth or kill both her and Booker. Songbird's got a bad habit of getting too enthusiastic, tearing apart whatever ship Elizabeth is in mid-flight.
    From what I've gathered but could be wrong,
    It was designed by the Lucetes to keep Elizabeth from becoming too powerful. Any time she started becoming too proficient at using her powers, Songbird would show up to put her back in her place. When she escaped with Booker, it went to get her back.

    fakeefit: I just realised this doesn't explain at all why Songbird spared Booker before Comstock House.

    Because
    Elizabeth wanted him to, and she said she'd go back with him. That's all he wanted.

This discussion has been closed.