You can actually fit BS2 into the overall "world" pretty easily, though playing it is far from necessary.
You don't even need to play BS1 first, though I'd highly recommend it. There are a lot of little things that gain extra context if you've played through BS1.
The circle is broken, but are the Luteces still scattered about the Multiverse regardless?
I would imagine.
There's still a bit of a paradox. Elizabeth drowns Booker to prevent him becoming Comstock, but that, in turn, should prevent her from ever becoming Elizabeth in the first place.
Ah, but if Elizabeth doesn't exist, then no-one stops Booker from being baptised, meaning the whole thing starts over - that would be the paradox. Hence the end bit, where booker wakes up in his office. The theory goes that the only realities that now exist, post-game, are ones in which he refused the baptism. If so, he should also have baby Anna, still in her crib. I wonder if it'll ever be touched on in future DLC ?
Personally, I'm mixed on the post-game scene. I really loved the ending, with Booker sacrificing himself as atonement for giving up his daughter, and how she suffered as a result. I really feel that the post-credits scene was a last bit of unnecessary mind-fuckery.
I think Songbird will be the feature of future DLC - I thought it interesting that there is not so much as a hint, in-game, as to its origin. As others have said, it wouldn't surprise me that it is also, somehow, a version of Booker.
[\spoiler]
That isn't it though.
Elizabeth doesn't stop Booker from being baptized, Booker is from a reality where he doesn't take the baptism all on his own.
And the scene at the end is to show you that it was Comstock that ended up drowning, so Booker lived, since he never took the baptism in the first place, thus ending Comstock in every reality that he existed in.
The circle is broken, but are the Luteces still scattered about the Multiverse regardless?
I would imagine.
There's still a bit of a paradox. Elizabeth drowns Booker to prevent him becoming Comstock, but that, in turn, should prevent her from ever becoming Elizabeth in the first place.
Ah, but if Elizabeth doesn't exist, then no-one stops Booker from being baptised, meaning the whole thing starts over - that would be the paradox. Hence the end bit, where booker wakes up in his office. The theory goes that the only realities that now exist, post-game, are ones in which he refused the baptism. If so, he should also have baby Anna, still in her crib. I wonder if it'll ever be touched on in future DLC ?
Personally, I'm mixed on the post-game scene. I really loved the ending, with Booker sacrificing himself as atonement for giving up his daughter, and how she suffered as a result. I really feel that the post-credits scene was a last bit of unnecessary mind-fuckery.
I think Songbird will be the feature of future DLC - I thought it interesting that there is not so much as a hint, in-game, as to its origin. As others have said, it wouldn't surprise me that it is also, somehow, a version of Booker.
[\spoiler]
That isn't it though.
Elizabeth doesn't stop Booker from being baptized, Booker is from a reality where he doesn't take the baptism all on his own.
And the scene at the end is to show you that it was Comstock that ended up drowning, so Booker lived, since he never took the baptism in the first place, thus ending Comstock in every reality that he existed in.
No, the man who drowns is both Booker and Comstock, hence Booker saying "I'm both" right before he drowns. Up until that decision, Booker and Comstock were the same person. Both died at that point.
The post-credits scene was likely a Booker that had never been presented with the opportunity for baptism and wasn't drowned. Unless Irrational is tackling the Grandfather Paradox somehow.
the fact that its all about multiple universes makes DLC possible for literally anything. Im hoping for more on Daisy fitsroy and the vox plotline, it felt a little slim to me and kind of skipped a bit where after you go through the tear, the revolution is already taking place
One thing nobodies talked about is that songbird is likely
from another dimension entirely, I thought it was weird ezliabeth opens a window for the bee and the songbird appears, why did she wish to see him at that moment?! Isn't it possible that songbird is actually from another reality altogether and Elizabeth pulled him into Columbia?
Apparently there's a audio diary at fink that hints to this
One thing nobodies talked about is that songbird is likely
from another dimension entirely, I thought it was weird ezliabeth opens a window for the bee and the songbird appears, why did she wish to see him at that moment?! Isn't it possible that songbird is actually from another reality altogether and Elizabeth pulled him into Columbia?
Apparently there's a audio diary at fink that hints to this
The Fink diary hints that the Songbird is made on the same tech as the Big Daddies.
*edit* Unrelated, but you know what else this game made me think of?
Incidentally, I figured out my combat problems. The answer was basically "Buy Possession For Less, use Possession at every possible opportunity". Instagibbing lesser enemies and turning large enemies into temporary allies at the cost of their own health (thanks to the enemies preferring to attack them over you) is really, really powerful, and my initial reservations over how much it cost have been ameliorated by the combination of lower cost and a larger Salt pool. I still die to the occasional stupid thing (I just lost 80% of my health in one shot? Better stand around looking for where it came from instead of running for cover!) or just something I haven't figured out yet (for instance, the fact that the skyrail was becoming electrified by the Handyman, instead of the Tesla Coil I'd summoned), but at least I don't feel like I'm falling behind any more.
I just finished the game, and this pretty much sums up my play style. I used Posession FAR more than anything else. Especially once you get the gear that makes enemies drop salt when they die. It's basically free at that point.
I thought the Elizabeths in that scene were just metaphorical projections. She didn't REALLY drown him, that stupid priest did. Booker almost gets drowned by him the second time he's baptized at the start of the game and makes a comment about it.
The circle is broken, but are the Luteces still scattered about the Multiverse regardless?
I would imagine.
There's still a bit of a paradox. Elizabeth drowns Booker to prevent him becoming Comstock, but that, in turn, should prevent her from ever becoming Elizabeth in the first place.
Ah, but if Elizabeth doesn't exist, then no-one stops Booker from being baptised, meaning the whole thing starts over - that would be the paradox. Hence the end bit, where booker wakes up in his office. The theory goes that the only realities that now exist, post-game, are ones in which he refused the baptism. If so, he should also have baby Anna, still in her crib. I wonder if it'll ever be touched on in future DLC ?
Personally, I'm mixed on the post-game scene. I really loved the ending, with Booker sacrificing himself as atonement for giving up his daughter, and how she suffered as a result. I really feel that the post-credits scene was a last bit of unnecessary mind-fuckery.
I think Songbird will be the feature of future DLC - I thought it interesting that there is not so much as a hint, in-game, as to its origin. As others have said, it wouldn't surprise me that it is also, somehow, a version of Booker.
[\spoiler]
That isn't it though.
Elizabeth doesn't stop Booker from being baptized, Booker is from a reality where he doesn't take the baptism all on his own.
And the scene at the end is to show you that it was Comstock that ended up drowning, so Booker lived, since he never took the baptism in the first place, thus ending Comstock in every reality that he existed in.
No, the man who drowns is both Booker and Comstock, hence Booker saying "I'm both" right before he drowns. Up until that decision, Booker and Comstock were the same person. Both died at that point.
The post-credits scene was likely a Booker that had never been presented with the opportunity for baptism and wasn't drowned. Unless Irrational is tackling the Grandfather Paradox somehow.
Still no.
The drowning killed Comstock, so everything else was undone and Booker woke up back in his office probably at the moment Robert came there for Anna. They aren't going to throw a third Booker at you just for one scene.
The circle is broken, but are the Luteces still scattered about the Multiverse regardless?
I would imagine.
There's still a bit of a paradox. Elizabeth drowns Booker to prevent him becoming Comstock, but that, in turn, should prevent her from ever becoming Elizabeth in the first place.
Ah, but if Elizabeth doesn't exist, then no-one stops Booker from being baptised, meaning the whole thing starts over - that would be the paradox. Hence the end bit, where booker wakes up in his office. The theory goes that the only realities that now exist, post-game, are ones in which he refused the baptism. If so, he should also have baby Anna, still in her crib. I wonder if it'll ever be touched on in future DLC ?
Personally, I'm mixed on the post-game scene. I really loved the ending, with Booker sacrificing himself as atonement for giving up his daughter, and how she suffered as a result. I really feel that the post-credits scene was a last bit of unnecessary mind-fuckery.
I think Songbird will be the feature of future DLC - I thought it interesting that there is not so much as a hint, in-game, as to its origin. As others have said, it wouldn't surprise me that it is also, somehow, a version of Booker.
[\spoiler]
That isn't it though.
Elizabeth doesn't stop Booker from being baptized, Booker is from a reality where he doesn't take the baptism all on his own.
And the scene at the end is to show you that it was Comstock that ended up drowning, so Booker lived, since he never took the baptism in the first place, thus ending Comstock in every reality that he existed in.
No, the man who drowns is both Booker and Comstock, hence Booker saying "I'm both" right before he drowns. Up until that decision, Booker and Comstock were the same person. Both died at that point.
The post-credits scene was likely a Booker that had never been presented with the opportunity for baptism and wasn't drowned. Unless Irrational is tackling the Grandfather Paradox somehow.
Still no.
The drowning killed Comstock, so everything else was undone and Booker woke up back in his office probably at the moment Robert came there for Anna. They aren't going to throw a third Booker at you just for one scene.
I've no idea how you've come to that conclusion. Plus you should probably read my caveat.
Okay, I'm probably just being dim, but I don't get something...
So Booker and Comstock are both the same person. How then, can they exist at the same time, in the same world, and one is older than the other? Or did one of them get pulled into the other's world?
Most of the time, universe-jumping seems to be Quantum Leap rules; you're still you, your consciousness has simply leaped into a new version of you. There are not multiple Bookers running around in each world.
However, there are then exceptions, such as multiple Elizabeths at the end, Booker/Comstock, Booker/Dead Booker, the Luteces.
Since the game plays very freely with using either methodology as needed, you can't try and read too hard into it.
Most of the time, universe-jumping seems to be Quantum Leap rules; you're still you, your consciousness has simply leaped into a new version of you. There are not multiple Bookers running around in each world.
However, there are then exceptions, such as multiple Elizabeths at the end, Booker/Comstock, Booker/Dead Booker, the Luteces.
Since the game plays very freely with using either methodology as needed, you can't try and read too hard into it.
The only time Booker didn't coexist with another version of himself was when he was martyred for the Vox Populi. It's safe to assume that people always coexist with their alternate universe counterparts.
Okay, I'm probably just being dim, but I don't get something...
So Booker and Comstock are both the same person. How then, can they exist at the same time, in the same world, and one is older than the other? Or did one of them get pulled into the other's world?
They're different versions of the same person. Comstock comes from a universe where Booker was baptized, that's why he doesn't have a child.
They're using the same rules as the Star Trek: TNG episode Parallels
Okay, I'm probably just being dim, but I don't get something...
So Booker and Comstock are both the same person. How then, can they exist at the same time, in the same world, and one is older than the other? Or did one of them get pulled into the other's world?
They're different versions of the same person. Comstock comes from a universe where Booker was baptized, that's why he doesn't have a child.
They're using the same rules as the Star Trek: TNG episode Parallels
An important distinction is that Comstock's universe, or Booker's conversely, was created after the baptism.
Comstock used a tear to travel to Booker's universe to buy his child. The Lutece's machine prematurely aged him, gave him cancer, and made him sterile.
Most of the time, universe-jumping seems to be Quantum Leap rules; you're still you, your consciousness has simply leaped into a new version of you. There are not multiple Bookers running around in each world.
However, there are then exceptions, such as multiple Elizabeths at the end, Booker/Comstock, Booker/Dead Booker, the Luteces.
Since the game plays very freely with using either methodology as needed, you can't try and read too hard into it.
The only time Booker didn't coexist with another version of himself was when he was martyred for the Vox Populi. It's safe to assume that people always coexist with their alternate universe counterparts.
... except Comstock still existed in that universe, so technically he DID.
I don't think they did a very good job of explaining how
Comstock developed his beliefs.
0
The_SpaniardIt's never lupinesIrvine, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
I just got to Beggar's Warf
Do you come back there later so that you can steal the stuff in the little security office without having the cop that's sitting there go ballistic, or do I just have to brain him and his buddies and take the stuff?
I don't think they did a very good job of explaining how
Comstock developed his beliefs.
Or whether he even really believed that stuff. It does seem pretty zany, especially given how incredulous Booker is about it all.
*edit* actually, thinking about this further...
I feel like Comstock didn't actually believe a thing. I'm not sure what he was after, but I feel like he was looking to create a religion in order to use people to drum up money for this project using the Twins' tech. Very much L. Ron Hubbard in that.
Most of the time, universe-jumping seems to be Quantum Leap rules; you're still you, your consciousness has simply leaped into a new version of you. There are not multiple Bookers running around in each world.
However, there are then exceptions, such as multiple Elizabeths at the end, Booker/Comstock, Booker/Dead Booker, the Luteces.
Since the game plays very freely with using either methodology as needed, you can't try and read too hard into it.
The only time Booker didn't coexist with another version of himself was when he was martyred for the Vox Populi. It's safe to assume that people always coexist with their alternate universe counterparts.
... except Comstock still existed in that universe, so technically he DID.
Good point. I was just referring to the boozing, gambling, secular version of Booker, but you're right.
Most of the time, universe-jumping seems to be Quantum Leap rules; you're still you, your consciousness has simply leaped into a new version of you. There are not multiple Bookers running around in each world.
However, there are then exceptions, such as multiple Elizabeths at the end, Booker/Comstock, Booker/Dead Booker, the Luteces.
Since the game plays very freely with using either methodology as needed, you can't try and read too hard into it.
The only time Booker didn't coexist with another version of himself was when he was martyred for the Vox Populi. It's safe to assume that people always coexist with their alternate universe counterparts.
... except Comstock still existed in that universe, so technically he DID.
Good point. I was just referring to the boozing, gambling, secular version of Booker, but you're right.
Not to mention
That after you hop through the first tear, everyone in Columbia still knows who you are. Which means that, in this possibility, Booker still came to Columbia and still freed Elizabeth, and the city was still looking for them. Yet, you never run into any other version of yourself; instead, you "become" that reality's Booker.
Except in the Vox reality, where the previous Booker already showed up prior and died. Because you don't become the dead body.
Really, Ken Levine needs to hire me. Story Consistency Engineer or something. I'm willing to negotiate a fair salary.
Most of the time, universe-jumping seems to be Quantum Leap rules; you're still you, your consciousness has simply leaped into a new version of you. There are not multiple Bookers running around in each world.
However, there are then exceptions, such as multiple Elizabeths at the end, Booker/Comstock, Booker/Dead Booker, the Luteces.
Since the game plays very freely with using either methodology as needed, you can't try and read too hard into it.
The only time Booker didn't coexist with another version of himself was when he was martyred for the Vox Populi. It's safe to assume that people always coexist with their alternate universe counterparts.
... except Comstock still existed in that universe, so technically he DID.
Good point. I was just referring to the boozing, gambling, secular version of Booker, but you're right.
Not to mention
That after you hop through the first tear, everyone in Columbia still knows who you are. Which means that, in this possibility, Booker still came to Columbia and still freed Elizabeth, and the city was still looking for them. Yet, you never run into any other version of yourself; instead, you "become" that reality's Booker.
Except in the Vox reality, where the previous Booker already showed up prior and died. Because you don't become the dead body.
Really, Ken Levine needs to hire me. Story Consistency Engineer or something. I'm willing to negotiate a fair salary.
Most of the time, universe-jumping seems to be Quantum Leap rules; you're still you, your consciousness has simply leaped into a new version of you. There are not multiple Bookers running around in each world.
However, there are then exceptions, such as multiple Elizabeths at the end, Booker/Comstock, Booker/Dead Booker, the Luteces.
Since the game plays very freely with using either methodology as needed, you can't try and read too hard into it.
The only time Booker didn't coexist with another version of himself was when he was martyred for the Vox Populi. It's safe to assume that people always coexist with their alternate universe counterparts.
... except Comstock still existed in that universe, so technically he DID.
Good point. I was just referring to the boozing, gambling, secular version of Booker, but you're right.
Not to mention
That after you hop through the first tear, everyone in Columbia still knows who you are. Which means that, in this possibility, Booker still came to Columbia and still freed Elizabeth, and the city was still looking for them. Yet, you never run into any other version of yourself; instead, you "become" that reality's Booker.
Except in the Vox reality, where the previous Booker already showed up prior and died. Because you don't become the dead body.
Really, Ken Levine needs to hire me. Story Consistency Engineer or something. I'm willing to negotiate a fair salary.
Which other reality are you referring to?
The first "jump", into the reality where Chen Lin is still alive, but missing his tools. It's obvious that a Booker has been here, but he doesn't exist separate from the player-Booker; player-Booker takes over the role of Booker in that Universe. Otherwise, there'd be two Bookers running around and it would have been pretty obvious.
On the other hand, how did the Luteces do it without the one superseding the other?
Most of the time, universe-jumping seems to be Quantum Leap rules; you're still you, your consciousness has simply leaped into a new version of you. There are not multiple Bookers running around in each world.
However, there are then exceptions, such as multiple Elizabeths at the end, Booker/Comstock, Booker/Dead Booker, the Luteces.
Since the game plays very freely with using either methodology as needed, you can't try and read too hard into it.
The only time Booker didn't coexist with another version of himself was when he was martyred for the Vox Populi. It's safe to assume that people always coexist with their alternate universe counterparts.
... except Comstock still existed in that universe, so technically he DID.
Good point. I was just referring to the boozing, gambling, secular version of Booker, but you're right.
Not to mention
That after you hop through the first tear, everyone in Columbia still knows who you are. Which means that, in this possibility, Booker still came to Columbia and still freed Elizabeth, and the city was still looking for them. Yet, you never run into any other version of yourself; instead, you "become" that reality's Booker.
Except in the Vox reality, where the previous Booker already showed up prior and died. Because you don't become the dead body.
Really, Ken Levine needs to hire me. Story Consistency Engineer or something. I'm willing to negotiate a fair salary.
Which other reality are you referring to?
The first "jump", into the reality where Chen Lin is still alive, but missing his tools. It's obvious that a Booker has been here, but he doesn't exist separate from the player-Booker; player-Booker takes over the role of Booker in that Universe. Otherwise, there'd be two Bookers running around and it would have been pretty obvious.
On the other hand, how did the Luteces do it without the one superseding the other?
The Lutece device bridges universes. What Elizabeth does (until you turn off the siphon) is what she explicitly calls wish fulfillment. She changes the universe you're in, and everything else adapts to fit.
The circle is broken, but are the Luteces still scattered about the Multiverse regardless?
I would imagine.
There's still a bit of a paradox. Elizabeth drowns Booker to prevent him becoming Comstock, but that, in turn, should prevent her from ever becoming Elizabeth in the first place.
Ah, but if Elizabeth doesn't exist, then no-one stops Booker from being baptised, meaning the whole thing starts over - that would be the paradox. Hence the end bit, where booker wakes up in his office. The theory goes that the only realities that now exist, post-game, are ones in which he refused the baptism. If so, he should also have baby Anna, still in her crib. I wonder if it'll ever be touched on in future DLC ?
Personally, I'm mixed on the post-game scene. I really loved the ending, with Booker sacrificing himself as atonement for giving up his daughter, and how she suffered as a result. I really feel that the post-credits scene was a last bit of unnecessary mind-fuckery.
I think Songbird will be the feature of future DLC - I thought it interesting that there is not so much as a hint, in-game, as to its origin. As others have said, it wouldn't surprise me that it is also, somehow, a version of Booker.
[\spoiler]
That isn't it though.
Elizabeth doesn't stop Booker from being baptized, Booker is from a reality where he doesn't take the baptism all on his own.
And the scene at the end is to show you that it was Comstock that ended up drowning, so Booker lived, since he never took the baptism in the first place, thus ending Comstock in every reality that he existed in.
No, the man who drowns is both Booker and Comstock, hence Booker saying "I'm both" right before he drowns. Up until that decision, Booker and Comstock were the same person. Both died at that point.
The post-credits scene was likely a Booker that had never been presented with the opportunity for baptism and wasn't drowned. Unless Irrational is tackling the Grandfather Paradox somehow.
Still no.
The drowning killed Comstock, so everything else was undone and Booker woke up back in his office probably at the moment Robert came there for Anna. They aren't going to throw a third Booker at you just for one scene.
I've no idea how you've come to that conclusion. Plus you should probably read my caveat.
I don't think they did a very good job of explaining how
Comstock developed his beliefs.
Or whether he even really believed that stuff. It does seem pretty zany, especially given how incredulous Booker is about it all.
*edit* actually, thinking about this further...
I feel like Comstock didn't actually believe a thing. I'm not sure what he was after, but I feel like he was looking to create a religion in order to use people to drum up money for this project using the Twins' tech. Very much L. Ron Hubbard in that.
The game mentions in several places that the US government funded Columbia and it floated around the US until the Boxer Rebellion. It seceded soon after.
other ending spoilers:
The first Booker/Elizabeth you see on the lighthouse path have the opposite choices than what you made (the necklace/hand bandage).
Also, I wonder if Lady Comstock is Booker's wife in his universes. Post-ghost fight, she says this:
Elizabeth: "You're not...not in this world. But maybe this is you in another...a world where you never meet him..."
Lady Comstock: "Or where I saved him?"
Most of the time, universe-jumping seems to be Quantum Leap rules; you're still you, your consciousness has simply leaped into a new version of you. There are not multiple Bookers running around in each world.
However, there are then exceptions, such as multiple Elizabeths at the end, Booker/Comstock, Booker/Dead Booker, the Luteces.
Since the game plays very freely with using either methodology as needed, you can't try and read too hard into it.
The only time Booker didn't coexist with another version of himself was when he was martyred for the Vox Populi. It's safe to assume that people always coexist with their alternate universe counterparts.
... except Comstock still existed in that universe, so technically he DID.
Good point. I was just referring to the boozing, gambling, secular version of Booker, but you're right.
Not to mention
That after you hop through the first tear, everyone in Columbia still knows who you are. Which means that, in this possibility, Booker still came to Columbia and still freed Elizabeth, and the city was still looking for them. Yet, you never run into any other version of yourself; instead, you "become" that reality's Booker.
Except in the Vox reality, where the previous Booker already showed up prior and died. Because you don't become the dead body.
Really, Ken Levine needs to hire me. Story Consistency Engineer or something. I'm willing to negotiate a fair salary.
Which other reality are you referring to?
The first "jump", into the reality where Chen Lin is still alive, but missing his tools. It's obvious that a Booker has been here, but he doesn't exist separate from the player-Booker; player-Booker takes over the role of Booker in that Universe. Otherwise, there'd be two Bookers running around and it would have been pretty obvious.
On the other hand, how did the Luteces do it without the one superseding the other?
He's not in that section of Columbia, but it's never implied that there isn't a version still on Columbia. Given Fink had already made his decision about his director of security in that universe (and wasn't considering Booker), the writers could've simply used that to explain why he was somewhere else. Booker probably wasn't allowed entry to Finkton and decided to go elsewhere. Regardless, he would've had no reason to go to Finkton in the first place.
This part where you are on the flag ship and you have command of song bird.. is fucking dumb. Song bird is ready and I'm pointing DIRECTLY AT THIS FUCIUKCJOIUCNK ships holding F has hard as I can and song bird does jack shit.
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
And on a personal note, (once more ending spoilers) some DLC ideas:
I'm going to guess the first one is going to be following the path of the hunter guy you never ran into.
I will be SORELY disappointed if there's not one where you play as Booker-3 in the Vox Revolution and it ends where you get martyred.
I kinda would like to see one which follows the path of the Lutece Twins after the game, but I'm not sure how they would make that into a game - they're not really shootman characters.
I'd also like to see something more about the origin of Songbird, but not sure how to tie that in as an actual game, either.
This part where you are on the flag ship and you have command of song bird.. is fucking dumb. Song bird is ready and I'm pointing DIRECTLY AT THIS FUCIUKCJOIUCNK ships holding F has hard as I can and song bird does jack shit.
Yeah it's rather buggy.
0
SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
And on a personal note, (once more ending spoilers) some DLC ideas:
I'm going to guess the first one is going to be following the path of the hunter guy you never ran into.
I will be SORELY disappointed if there's not one where you play as Booker-3 in the Vox Revolution and it ends where you get martyred.
I kinda would like to see one which follows the path of the Lutece Twins after the game, but I'm not sure how they would make that into a game - they're not really shootman characters.
I'd also like to see something more about the origin of Songbird, but not sure how to tie that in as an actual game, either.
Was this patched in I wonder?
Edit: Oh, it's an old video. Hmmmmmm.
Edit2: Listening to them back and forth they don't seem identical. Not sure if it's actually Songbird.
Sarksus on
0
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited April 2013
Man, the conversations after a playthrough are awesome. Hall of heroes is kinda neat.
"If you erase all those parts of Booker DeWitt, what's left?"
Do you come back there later so that you can steal the stuff in the little security office without having the cop that's sitting there go ballistic, or do I just have to brain him and his buddies and take the stuff?
Start punching.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I don't think they did a very good job of explaining how
Comstock developed his beliefs.
Or whether he even really believed that stuff. It does seem pretty zany, especially given how incredulous Booker is about it all.
*edit* actually, thinking about this further...
I feel like Comstock didn't actually believe a thing. I'm not sure what he was after, but I feel like he was looking to create a religion in order to use people to drum up money for this project using the Twins' tech. Very much L. Ron Hubbard in that.
There's a hint of how it could have happened. One of the later Comstock audio logs talks about how he had to go ridiculously bloodthirsty to put to rest rumors that he was part Indian. If others challenged his devoutness, I could see some slide into crazy. It's not really spelled out at all though, just a possible reason given a glimpse of his personality.
Another random thought about late game stuff:
If the different universes are created when a choice comes up, why is one Lutece female and the other male? I'm picturing two sperm with different chromosome pairings deciding whether or not to dive into an egg and spawning universes as a result
I don't think they did a very good job of explaining how
Comstock developed his beliefs.
Or whether he even really believed that stuff. It does seem pretty zany, especially given how incredulous Booker is about it all.
*edit* actually, thinking about this further...
I feel like Comstock didn't actually believe a thing. I'm not sure what he was after, but I feel like he was looking to create a religion in order to use people to drum up money for this project using the Twins' tech. Very much L. Ron Hubbard in that.
There's a hint of how it could have happened. One of the later Comstock audio logs talks about how he had to go ridiculously bloodthirsty to put to rest rumors that he was part Indian. If others challenged his devoutness, I could see some slide into crazy. It's not really spelled out at all though, just a possible reason given a glimpse of his personality.
Another random thought about late game stuff:
If the different universes are created when a choice comes up, why is one Lutece female and the other male? I'm picturing two sperm with different chromosome pairings deciding whether or not to dive into an egg and spawning universes as a result
I believe chance and choice are two different things in Bioshock Infinite's version of Infinite Universes. There are constants (such as #77, or heads).
The author of this article entirely misunderstands infinity and its meaning within the story.
There's no guarantee Comstock would've come back for Anna. Comstock isn't immune to new universes springing into existence at every moment. For any reason imaginable he could've decided he didn't want a child, didn't want to take the child, never been made sterile in the first place, adopted another child, been successfully fought off by Booker, etc. Literally anything's possible.
Booker did in fact die. Both Booker's and Comstock's histories are convergent on that point. Killing one kills them both, because up until that decision Booker and Comstock are the same person. Which is exactly what Booker says before he drowns.
If the different universes are created when a choice comes up, why is one Lutece female and the other male? I'm picturing two sperm with different chromosome pairings deciding whether or not to dive into an egg and spawning universes as a result
It's not conscious decisions, but outcomes of events that really matter. Human agency isn't required to create a new universe.
They go throughout game alluding to the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics, and with that human agency is barely a factor.
I've been poking through subtitles and other data files in the game and found a few interesting relics of what I assume are canceled parts of the game:
-Experience points/leveling up
-Co-op
-Something called "SLC." I have no idea what it is, but it appears to be an online component and had its own sound files and "hub world" level.
-Clothing vending machine, I imagine like the ones in-game that are broken
-A list of clothing parts (head, chest, etc; more than the game currently has) then a list of body parts like brain, heart, lungs, etc. No idea what those would have been used for There appear to be "gear" attributes for all of those...which appear to correlate with what the game uses now: brain=hat, heart=shirt, arms=boots (??), lungs=pants (???), stomach=NOTUSED
-Saved game options
-A bunch of what I believe are unused player choice variables
also, RE: that songbird spoiler
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Some people on NeoGAF are claiming that that's the SFX from the cloak tonic, but several videos have the exact same noise at that point. What could that noise possibly be if it isn't Songbird?
I think this game does have a limited conception of "infinite."
If there are in fact an infinite number of universes, then unless the baptism was the point of divergence for all the universes, it wouldn't matter if Booker drowns. If the universe diverges infinitely all the time then there would already be an infinite number of universes where Booker goes through the baptism and an infinite number of universes where he doesn't, not to mention an infinite number of universes where Booker doesn't exist and an infinite number of universes where he's a completely different person. Making sure that Booker drowns during the baptism would prevent all the universes that spring up from this one iteration of Comstock but there are still an infinite number of universes where Booker didn't drown.
Posts
You don't even need to play BS1 first, though I'd highly recommend it. There are a lot of little things that gain extra context if you've played through BS1.
That isn't it though.
And the scene at the end is to show you that it was Comstock that ended up drowning, so Booker lived, since he never took the baptism in the first place, thus ending Comstock in every reality that he existed in.
The post-credits scene was likely a Booker that had never been presented with the opportunity for baptism and wasn't drowned. Unless Irrational is tackling the Grandfather Paradox somehow.
Apparently there's a audio diary at fink that hints to this
Xbox | x Dredgen Yor x |
*edit* Unrelated, but you know what else this game made me think of?
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
I just finished the game, and this pretty much sums up my play style. I used Posession FAR more than anything else. Especially once you get the gear that makes enemies drop salt when they die. It's basically free at that point.
Still no.
I've no idea how you've come to that conclusion. Plus you should probably read my caveat.
However, there are then exceptions, such as multiple Elizabeths at the end, Booker/Comstock, Booker/Dead Booker, the Luteces.
Since the game plays very freely with using either methodology as needed, you can't try and read too hard into it.
They're using the same rules as the Star Trek: TNG episode Parallels
Comstock used a tear to travel to Booker's universe to buy his child. The Lutece's machine prematurely aged him, gave him cancer, and made him sterile.
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
*edit* actually, thinking about this further...
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
Not to mention
Except in the Vox reality, where the previous Booker already showed up prior and died. Because you don't become the dead body.
Really, Ken Levine needs to hire me. Story Consistency Engineer or something. I'm willing to negotiate a fair salary.
On the other hand, how did the Luteces do it without the one superseding the other?
http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/28/understanding-bioshock-infinites-ending-ending-explanation/
I read it. I disagree
other ending spoilers:
Also, I wonder if Lady Comstock is Booker's wife in his universes. Post-ghost fight, she says this:
Elizabeth: "You're not...not in this world. But maybe this is you in another...a world where you never meet him..."
Lady Comstock: "Or where I saved him?"
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
SUPER ENDING SPOILERS
And on a personal note, (once more ending spoilers) some DLC ideas:
I will be SORELY disappointed if there's not one where you play as Booker-3 in the Vox Revolution and it ends where you get martyred.
I kinda would like to see one which follows the path of the Lutece Twins after the game, but I'm not sure how they would make that into a game - they're not really shootman characters.
I'd also like to see something more about the origin of Songbird, but not sure how to tie that in as an actual game, either.
Yeah it's rather buggy.
Edit: Oh, it's an old video. Hmmmmmm.
Edit2: Listening to them back and forth they don't seem identical. Not sure if it's actually Songbird.
Start punching.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Another random thought about late game stuff:
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
The author of this article entirely misunderstands infinity and its meaning within the story.
Booker did in fact die. Both Booker's and Comstock's histories are convergent on that point. Killing one kills them both, because up until that decision Booker and Comstock are the same person. Which is exactly what Booker says before he drowns.
They go throughout game alluding to the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics, and with that human agency is barely a factor.
-Experience points/leveling up
-Co-op
-Something called "SLC." I have no idea what it is, but it appears to be an online component and had its own sound files and "hub world" level.
-Clothing vending machine, I imagine like the ones in-game that are broken
-A list of clothing parts (head, chest, etc; more than the game currently has) then a list of body parts like brain, heart, lungs, etc. No idea what those would have been used for There appear to be "gear" attributes for all of those...which appear to correlate with what the game uses now: brain=hat, heart=shirt, arms=boots (??), lungs=pants (???), stomach=NOTUSED
-Saved game options
-A bunch of what I believe are unused player choice variables
also, RE: that songbird spoiler
Some people on NeoGAF are claiming that that's the SFX from the cloak tonic, but several videos have the exact same noise at that point. What could that noise possibly be if it isn't Songbird?