Well damn, I know this one, but I'm not seeing a rescue button... I don't seem to have a mask, am I kidnapped somewhere? Haven't seen anything in my usual threads anyway.
Paladin has been kidnapped by Taranis and is being held for ransom! Solve the riddle to set em' free, or I'll hand em' over to Clamps!<br />
<br />
My GAMES should bring me popularity<br />
So I feel there's been deceit<br />
I helped sell a ton of copies<br />
Yet all I'm known for is a RECEIPT<br />
Which forumer am I?
Paladin has been kidnapped by Taranis and is being held for ransom! Solve the riddle to set em' free, or I'll hand em' over to Clamps!<br />
<br />
My GAMES should bring me popularity<br />
So I feel there's been deceit<br />
I helped sell a ton of copies<br />
Yet all I'm known for is a RECEIPT<br />
Which forumer am I?
I'm getting really bizarre sound issues in Bioshock 2. Anyone else experienced this? Stuff like gunshot sounds being barely audible, random noises cutting out, volume levels of all sorts of things way out of wack. No other game does this, and my drivers are updated.
Ash-Housewares has been kidnapped by Taranis and is being held for ransom! Solve the riddle to set em' free, or I'll hand em' over to Clamps!
I’m on your SIX like an AIRPLANE PILOT I’m the FASTEST there is, best not try it It’s not about the ending, it’s about the JOURNEY Isn’t that nice? Wait til you get to know me! Which forumer am I?
Nothing really new to the conversation, though, aside from the exact moment of Elizabeth asserting that there are constants and variables across the different universes.
And the game gives plenty of examples. For instance, the baseball marked 77 falling into Booker's hands was one such constant. Flipping heads was another. Songbird's existence.
Certainly the universe branches infinitely forward as time marches on, in the respect that it will never stop splitting, but those splits have some parameters that can be relied upon.
For that matter, Songbird stopping Booker from rescuing Elizabeth after her recapture was implied to be a constant, up until future-Elizabeth understood it and exerted her powers to break it.
Hell, there you go. Constants limit potential outcomes aside that Elizabeth can understand and reshape them.
This still doesn't strike you as poor writing?
Not to mention the fact that the #77 raffle ticket never happened in the Vox Populi world since it was already in a state of lockdown. The flipping heads only goes to show that the Booker selected always picks heads. Someone said earlier that it can land tails. The songbird can't always stop Booker if he doesn't always get the chance to look for her, preventing a constant. For what is a constant that doesn't happen? The argument that ending in the game always leads to the baptism ignores that Comstock ought to occur given infinite possibilities which exclude your "constants." We know for a fact that time split before the baptism. And who existed after the baptism? Which Booker? A Booker which wasn't drowned during the baptism "constant?" A Booker with unchecked infinite possibilities? Infinite possibilities that preceded the birth of his daughter? Or was only the "constant" simply negated?
Even still, you're insisting that some things must remain constant for the story to happen, and for Elizabeth to acquire the powers to prevent he story and her own birth. How did she go back in time to stop her own birth if she was never born? Does she exist outside of spacetime? Then why do they blink out of existence once Booker drowns? Is this not a plot hole?
Do constants not diminish the impact of 'Infinite?' Did the writers not create too many plot holes, with they tried to close with contrived deus ex machina (ie her sudden omniscience)? What of Comstock's prophecies of how it would end, despite Elizabeth undoing everything? His prophecies which specifically mention that Elizabeth would be lead astray by Booker, who then dies in one of the alternate universes in which an alternate Comstock resides? Paradoxical, no? Assuming his prophecies were bullshit: why didn't he try harder to stop Booker? Why didn't he provide a more accurate description of him? Why didn't he send the Songbird after him in the beginning?
Needless convolution, diminished importance of the Infinite theme, and distraction of the game's satirical elements.
This isn't nearly as clear cut as people seem to think it. Great game, but the writers painted themselves into a corner.
Bubby has been kidnapped by Taranis and is being held for ransom! Solve the riddle to set em' free, or I'll hand em' over to Clamps!
My name is something you’d find near toilets But that’s nothing compared to the shit I deal with For a brief stint, I tried adoption But the kid I got turned out to be rotten Which forumer am I?
On my second play through, and I'm wondering if the tally for the heads/tails flip has incremented a total of two times since first playing the game. Also 1999 mode is pain.
Sarksus has been kidnapped by Ash-Housewares and is being held for ransom! Solve the riddle to set em' free, or I'll hand em' over to Clamps!
I make my money through ONOMONOPEIA! I drink that shit up like fresh sangria Is that enough to FILL YA? Now quiet you’re interrupting my animes. Which forumer am I?
Nothing really new to the conversation, though, aside from the exact moment of Elizabeth asserting that there are constants and variables across the different universes.
And the game gives plenty of examples. For instance, the baseball marked 77 falling into Booker's hands was one such constant. Flipping heads was another. Songbird's existence.
Certainly the universe branches infinitely forward as time marches on, in the respect that it will never stop splitting, but those splits have some parameters that can be relied upon.
For that matter, Songbird stopping Booker from rescuing Elizabeth after her recapture was implied to be a constant, up until future-Elizabeth understood it and exerted her powers to break it.
Hell, there you go. Constants limit potential outcomes aside that Elizabeth can understand and reshape them.
This still doesn't strike you as poor writing?
Not to mention the fact that the #77 raffle ticket never happened in the Vox Populi world since it was already in a state of lockdown. The flipping heads only goes to show that the Booker selected always picks heads. Someone said earlier that it can land tails. The songbird can't always stop Booker if he doesn't always get the chance to look for her, preventing a constant. For what is a constant that doesn't happen? The argument that ending in the game always leads to the baptism ignores that Comstock ought to occur given infinite possibilities which exclude your "constants." We know for a fact that time split before the baptism. And who existed after the baptism? Which Booker? A Booker which wasn't drowned during the baptism "constant?" A Booker with unchecked infinite possibilities? Infinite possibilities that preceded the birth of his daughter? Or was only the "constant" simply negated?
Even still, you're insisting that some things must remain constant for the story to happen, and for Elizabeth to acquire the powers to prevent he story and her own birth. How did she go back in time to stop her own birth if she was never born? Does she exist outside of spacetime? Then why do they blink out of existence once Booker drowns? Is this not a plot hole?
Do constants not diminish the impact of 'Infinite?' Did the writers not create too many plot holes, with they tried to close with contrived deus ex machina (ie her sudden omniscience)? What of Comstock's prophecies of how it would end, despite Elizabeth undoing everything? His prophecies which specifically mention that Elizabeth would be lead astray by Booker, who then dies in one of the alternate universes in which an alternate Comstock resides? Paradoxical, no? Assuming his prophecies were bullshit: why didn't he try harder to stop Booker? Why didn't he provide a more accurate description of him? Why didn't he send the Songbird after him in the beginning?
Needless convolution, diminished importance of the Infinite theme, and distraction of the game's satirical elements.
This isn't nearly as clear cut as people seem to think it. Great game, but the writers painted themselves into a corner.
I just don't think you get it.
Not to mention the fact that the #77 raffle ticket never happened in the Vox Populi world
You have no way of knowing that.
The flipping heads only goes to show that the Booker selected always picks heads.
They never state this either.
The songbird can't always stop Booker if he doesn't always get the chance to look for her, preventing a constant
It's constant for any rescue attempt made by any Booker, which is why Elizabeth says "Songbird ALWAYS STOPS YOU."
The argument that ending in the game always leads to the baptism ignores that Comstock ought to occur given infinite possibilities which exclude your "constants."
No, Comstock always comes into existence from Booker DeWitt, accepting a baptism. That is a constant. In every world where there is a Comstock, that's where he came from.
We know for a fact that time split before the baptism.
This is just factually wrong.
And who existed after the baptism?
Comstock. Always, Comstock.
How did she go back in time to stop her own birth if she was never born?
If she wasn't born, she probably couldn't, but she was! After the siphon was destroyed she could see everything, behind every door, and knew the time and place that gave birth to every Comstock.
Is this not a plot hole?
It is not.
Did the writers not create too many plot holes, with they tried to close with contrived deus ex machina (ie her sudden omniscience)?
Its not sudden, you're told that the siphon is what was keeping her from using her powers to their fullest. Once it was gone, she could see it all.
What of Comstock's prophecies of how it would end, despite Elizabeth undoing everything? His prophecies which specifically mention that Elizabeth would be lead astray by Booker, who then dies in one of the alternate universes in which an alternate Comstock resides? Paradoxical, no?
No. Because Comstock only used the Lutece Field and Tears to observe other possibilities, which he mistakenly took as Prophecy. This is stated in an Audio Log. Comstock saw a possibility of Elizabeth burning down NY after Booker 'vanished' leaving her alone and took that for prohecy.
why didn't he try harder to stop Booker? Why didn't he provide a more accurate description of him? Why didn't he send the Songbird after him in the beginning?
Because he was operating under the assumption that he would get Elizabeth back anyway, and Booker would 'vanish' and not come for her. Which happened when old Elizabeth pulls Booker into her reality.
This isn't nearly as clear cut as people seem to think it
Beat it this weekend. I managed to stay clear of most spoilers about the game. I stopped looking at anything over a year ago.
Only thing ill say outside of spoiler is that the game really is a mind fuck.
For fans of the old bioshocks i think the ending reveal was less a payoff because everyone was expecting a massive twist....and yes they got one in the 'lighthouses'...but a smaller one with booker.
The start of the game feels a little disjointed..seeing the twins for the first time doesnt really confuse. Seeing them a second or third time then you start with the mind fuckery and you wondering what the hell was going on. Until you free Elizabeth from her prison your in a state of confusion as to whats real and what isnt. You begin to dream of even bigger twists to the plot...what if Elizabeth is the real villan of this game...are the twins trying to help or hurt?
The problems with the story is that the transition and reasons from bringing the player from one event to another isnt seemless. Okay so it kinda makes sense that they move to a world where chen is alive, and its believable that they arent sophisticated enough to think that other things could also be different. but when they get to the tools the idea that they can go to a world where the tools werent there, and have a living chen seems like a leap of faith that they chose just because the stuff was too heavy to move.
Its not enough to make me dislike the game, I just wish it had been a smoother train of logic.
Next....Slate. but knowing now what i know about the ending there seems to be some confusion. Slate knew Booker...and he obviously knows comstock. did he not know comstock was booker? If he knew then his whole reason for rebelling was crap because it was based around thinking comstock had no military service and was stealing glory from the troops. If he had been with comstock since pretty much the beginning of columbia it seems odd he could recognize bookers face from 20 years ago but comstock obviously took a few years to go white and bushy beard...youd think he would have recognized comstock a long time ago.
The Rapture/ lighthouse section was pretty damn awesome. Not only was it wrapping up this game but it was saying that Bioshocks are linked and that the licence can continue as a kind of alternate universe unto itself. They could even cross over between universes in the future. I think the next 'city' for the next 'bioshock' will be a spaceship.
Does anyone know what the various choices result in? I didnt peg the black/white couple and got an item for it...i didnt shoot slate and saw him in an interrigation room later...those are the two main choices i can think of.
This also makes you think about DLC. What are they planning to have since there are no multiplayer bits to add on? single player content would...what? maybe the prequel viewpoint of booker in the vox populi world where he was martyered?
I know this is impossible, but it would be really cool (ending spoilers):
If they had had even some of this game in mind when making Bioshock, and if there was a point in Bioshock where you could look out a window and see Songbird's corpse at the bottom of the ocean. And no one knew what it was at the time, but it had been there all along.
Beat it this weekend. I managed to stay clear of most spoilers about the game. I stopped looking at anything over a year ago.
Only thing ill say outside of spoiler is that the game really is a mind fuck.
For fans of the old bioshocks i think the ending reveal was less a payoff because everyone was expecting a massive twist....and yes they got one in the 'lighthouses'...but a smaller one with booker.
The start of the game feels a little disjointed..seeing the twins for the first time doesnt really confuse. Seeing them a second or third time then you start with the mind fuckery and you wondering what the hell was going on. Until you free Elizabeth from her prison your in a state of confusion as to whats real and what isnt. You begin to dream of even bigger twists to the plot...what if Elizabeth is the real villan of this game...are the twins trying to help or hurt?
The problems with the story is that the transition and reasons from bringing the player from one event to another isnt seemless. Okay so it kinda makes sense that they move to a world where chen is alive, and its believable that they arent sophisticated enough to think that other things could also be different. but when they get to the tools the idea that they can go to a world where the tools werent there, and have a living chen seems like a leap of faith that they chose just because the stuff was too heavy to move.
Its not enough to make me dislike the game, I just wish it had been a smoother train of logic.
Next....Slate. but knowing now what i know about the ending there seems to be some confusion. Slate knew Booker...and he obviously knows comstock. did he not know comstock was booker? If he knew then his whole reason for rebelling was crap because it was based around thinking comstock had no military service and was stealing glory from the troops. If he had been with comstock since pretty much the beginning of columbia it seems odd he could recognize bookers face from 20 years ago but comstock obviously took a few years to go white and bushy beard...youd think he would have recognized comstock a long time ago.
The Rapture/ lighthouse section was pretty damn awesome. Not only was it wrapping up this game but it was saying that Bioshocks are linked and that the licence can continue as a kind of alternate universe unto itself. They could even cross over between universes in the future. I think the next 'city' for the next 'bioshock' will be a spaceship.
Does anyone know what the various choices result in? I didnt peg the black/white couple and got an item for it...i didnt shoot slate and saw him in an interrigation room later...those are the two main choices i can think of.
This also makes you think about DLC. What are they planning to have since there are no multiplayer bits to add on? single player content would...what? maybe the prequel viewpoint of booker in the vox populi world where he was martyered?
Are we certain Slate did not know Comstock was DeWitt?
It seemed probable that Comstock called him up and said, "Hey old war-buddy, want to lead the Columbian armed forces?"
And then Slate ranting and raving that Comstock "wasn't there", etc., was metaphorical. You gave yourself a new name and started acting like a completely different person, like a coward! You're not the man I once knew!
And then in the midst of Slate descending into desperate madness as his military rebellion fails, Booker shows up and starts killing Comstock's forces, convincing Slate's delirious mind that Comstock is literally not DeWitt.
But I don't remember the details of that section of the game well enough to scrutinize the viability of that theory.
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
Bubby has been kidnapped by Taranis and is being held for ransom! Solve the riddle to set em' free, or I'll hand em' over to Clamps!<br />
<br /> My name is something you’d find near toilets<br />
But that’s nothing compared to the shit I deal with<br />
For a brief stint, I tried adoption<br />
But the kid I got turned out to be rotten<br />
Which forumer am I?
so what about the whole constants and variables thing existing as a metaphor for player choice, and as a metaphor for us all playing slightly different versions of the same Booker in the same story?
I know it's all a LOT more complicated than that, and not the only answer, I'm just interested in that as A Thing, much like Bioshock's "A Man Chooses" was also a commentary on player choice and how we kinda blindly follow the orders of the Voice On the Radio in games. Each of our Bookers is slightly different, even if we end in the same place; mine threw the baseball at the announcer and chose the bird, he likes Crows and Sniper Rifles, he's no good at skylines, and he hid in a corner and cried during Comstock House. Yours probably differs on some level, even if it's a small one.
Beat it this weekend. I managed to stay clear of most spoilers about the game. I stopped looking at anything over a year ago.
Only thing ill say outside of spoiler is that the game really is a mind fuck.
For fans of the old bioshocks i think the ending reveal was less a payoff because everyone was expecting a massive twist....and yes they got one in the 'lighthouses'...but a smaller one with booker.
The start of the game feels a little disjointed..seeing the twins for the first time doesnt really confuse. Seeing them a second or third time then you start with the mind fuckery and you wondering what the hell was going on. Until you free Elizabeth from her prison your in a state of confusion as to whats real and what isnt. You begin to dream of even bigger twists to the plot...what if Elizabeth is the real villan of this game...are the twins trying to help or hurt?
The problems with the story is that the transition and reasons from bringing the player from one event to another isnt seemless. Okay so it kinda makes sense that they move to a world where chen is alive, and its believable that they arent sophisticated enough to think that other things could also be different. but when they get to the tools the idea that they can go to a world where the tools werent there, and have a living chen seems like a leap of faith that they chose just because the stuff was too heavy to move.
Its not enough to make me dislike the game, I just wish it had been a smoother train of logic.
Next....Slate. but knowing now what i know about the ending there seems to be some confusion. Slate knew Booker...and he obviously knows comstock. did he not know comstock was booker? If he knew then his whole reason for rebelling was crap because it was based around thinking comstock had no military service and was stealing glory from the troops. If he had been with comstock since pretty much the beginning of columbia it seems odd he could recognize bookers face from 20 years ago but comstock obviously took a few years to go white and bushy beard...youd think he would have recognized comstock a long time ago.
The Rapture/ lighthouse section was pretty damn awesome. Not only was it wrapping up this game but it was saying that Bioshocks are linked and that the licence can continue as a kind of alternate universe unto itself. They could even cross over between universes in the future. I think the next 'city' for the next 'bioshock' will be a spaceship.
Does anyone know what the various choices result in? I didnt peg the black/white couple and got an item for it...i didnt shoot slate and saw him in an interrigation room later...those are the two main choices i can think of.
This also makes you think about DLC. What are they planning to have since there are no multiplayer bits to add on? single player content would...what? maybe the prequel viewpoint of booker in the vox populi world where he was martyered?
you should really play system shock 2.
System Shock 2 is so amazing, I can't quite remember exactly how relevant it is to the Bioshocks, however, the huge draw of it is that the "theme" or, "soul", if you will, of the Bioshock genre is so prominent in there.
I was a little uneasy about Bioshock Infinite at first, because I was really taken aback at the "babysitter simulator" that I thought it was going to be. Boy was I wrong, although, I must say, the Penny Arcade cartoon about the Disney Princess...spot on. I find myself warily glancing her way every time I do an execute. To be honest, though, I didn't think of Elizabeth as Belle, I thought of her as Ariel :P
Monster Hunter Tri code/username: 1MF42Z (Morda)
WiiU Username: MordaRazgrom
Steam Username: MordaRazgrom
WoW/Diablo 3 Battlenet Battletag: MordaRazgrom#1755
Me and my wife have a gamer YouTube page if interested www.youtube.com/TeamMarriage
Beat it this weekend. I managed to stay clear of most spoilers about the game. I stopped looking at anything over a year ago.
Only thing ill say outside of spoiler is that the game really is a mind fuck.
For fans of the old bioshocks i think the ending reveal was less a payoff because everyone was expecting a massive twist....and yes they got one in the 'lighthouses'...but a smaller one with booker.
The start of the game feels a little disjointed..seeing the twins for the first time doesnt really confuse. Seeing them a second or third time then you start with the mind fuckery and you wondering what the hell was going on. Until you free Elizabeth from her prison your in a state of confusion as to whats real and what isnt. You begin to dream of even bigger twists to the plot...what if Elizabeth is the real villan of this game...are the twins trying to help or hurt?
The problems with the story is that the transition and reasons from bringing the player from one event to another isnt seemless. Okay so it kinda makes sense that they move to a world where chen is alive, and its believable that they arent sophisticated enough to think that other things could also be different. but when they get to the tools the idea that they can go to a world where the tools werent there, and have a living chen seems like a leap of faith that they chose just because the stuff was too heavy to move.
Its not enough to make me dislike the game, I just wish it had been a smoother train of logic.
Next....Slate. but knowing now what i know about the ending there seems to be some confusion. Slate knew Booker...and he obviously knows comstock. did he not know comstock was booker? If he knew then his whole reason for rebelling was crap because it was based around thinking comstock had no military service and was stealing glory from the troops. If he had been with comstock since pretty much the beginning of columbia it seems odd he could recognize bookers face from 20 years ago but comstock obviously took a few years to go white and bushy beard...youd think he would have recognized comstock a long time ago.
The Rapture/ lighthouse section was pretty damn awesome. Not only was it wrapping up this game but it was saying that Bioshocks are linked and that the licence can continue as a kind of alternate universe unto itself. They could even cross over between universes in the future. I think the next 'city' for the next 'bioshock' will be a spaceship.
Does anyone know what the various choices result in? I didnt peg the black/white couple and got an item for it...i didnt shoot slate and saw him in an interrigation room later...those are the two main choices i can think of.
This also makes you think about DLC. What are they planning to have since there are no multiplayer bits to add on? single player content would...what? maybe the prequel viewpoint of booker in the vox populi world where he was martyered?
Couple of points:
A lot of the "gameplay" reasons for running around are a bit contrived and I theorize it has something to do with the assets having been done before the whole mutliple-timelines thing was fully fleshed out. There is a line with the heavy machinary where Booker says, "We didn't think this through." which can be said for a lot of decisions Booker makes not only in Columbia but in his life. Elizabeth is also naive having been sheltered her whole life.
Comstock aged rapidly and became sterile due to over-exposure to the tears. It's reasonable to think Slate wouldn't know this Booker as he shouldn't be that old. Of all the plot points to analyze or look past for the sake of the narrative, Comstock's advance aging is the one contrivance that bothers me the most and I wish it was handled differently. Again though I think it was because the setting and principle characters were established before Levin came up or revealed the overarching plot.
"I'd happily trade your life for knowledge of my powers."
-Louis C.K.
0
TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
Beat it this weekend. I managed to stay clear of most spoilers about the game. I stopped looking at anything over a year ago.
Only thing ill say outside of spoiler is that the game really is a mind fuck.
For fans of the old bioshocks i think the ending reveal was less a payoff because everyone was expecting a massive twist....and yes they got one in the 'lighthouses'...but a smaller one with booker.
The start of the game feels a little disjointed..seeing the twins for the first time doesnt really confuse. Seeing them a second or third time then you start with the mind fuckery and you wondering what the hell was going on. Until you free Elizabeth from her prison your in a state of confusion as to whats real and what isnt. You begin to dream of even bigger twists to the plot...what if Elizabeth is the real villan of this game...are the twins trying to help or hurt?
The problems with the story is that the transition and reasons from bringing the player from one event to another isnt seemless. Okay so it kinda makes sense that they move to a world where chen is alive, and its believable that they arent sophisticated enough to think that other things could also be different. but when they get to the tools the idea that they can go to a world where the tools werent there, and have a living chen seems like a leap of faith that they chose just because the stuff was too heavy to move.
Its not enough to make me dislike the game, I just wish it had been a smoother train of logic.
Next....Slate. but knowing now what i know about the ending there seems to be some confusion. Slate knew Booker...and he obviously knows comstock. did he not know comstock was booker? If he knew then his whole reason for rebelling was crap because it was based around thinking comstock had no military service and was stealing glory from the troops. If he had been with comstock since pretty much the beginning of columbia it seems odd he could recognize bookers face from 20 years ago but comstock obviously took a few years to go white and bushy beard...youd think he would have recognized comstock a long time ago.
The Rapture/ lighthouse section was pretty damn awesome. Not only was it wrapping up this game but it was saying that Bioshocks are linked and that the licence can continue as a kind of alternate universe unto itself. They could even cross over between universes in the future. I think the next 'city' for the next 'bioshock' will be a spaceship.
Does anyone know what the various choices result in? I didnt peg the black/white couple and got an item for it...i didnt shoot slate and saw him in an interrigation room later...those are the two main choices i can think of.
This also makes you think about DLC. What are they planning to have since there are no multiplayer bits to add on? single player content would...what? maybe the prequel viewpoint of booker in the vox populi world where he was martyered?
re:choices
when you go to board the train with Elizabeth and the guy behind the counter starts stalling, you're given the option to either draw your gun or wait. I waited and the guy put a knife through my hand, which lead to my Booker having a bandage on his hand for the rest of the game
so what about the whole constants and variables thing existing as a metaphor for player choice, and as a metaphor for us all playing slightly different versions of the same Booker in the same story?
I know it's all a LOT more complicated than that, and not the only answer, I'm just interested in that as A Thing, much like Bioshock's "A Man Chooses" was also a commentary on player choice and how we kinda blindly follow the orders of the Voice On the Radio in games. Each of our Bookers is slightly different, even if we end in the same place; mine threw the baseball at the announcer and chose the bird, he likes Crows and Sniper Rifles, he's no good at skylines, and he hid in a corner and cried during Comstock House. Yours probably differs on some level, even if it's a small one.
that's how I interpret it
ending spoilers, of course
I finished a second playthrough last night and noticed the first Booker/Elizabeth have the opposite choices you made (She had the bird necklace and he had a hand wrapping because he got stabbed, presumably). I played through making every opposite choice I could, but the only one that appeared significantly different is the ball throw which, despite still not being able to throw it (in fact the only difference is Dewitt doesn't say anything at all), removes the couple from thanking you later for "saving them" and Fink's assistant dude talks to you and gives you an item and congratulates you on your savagery. Makes me wonder if they had that scene more fleshed out and wisely restricted the outcome scene but left the rewards in.
Was time travel tacked on at the end of development or something? For most of the game its like time is flowing normally but god only knows how many bookers the twins are steering in parallel. After old ellisabeth though, the story starts bouncing around time. If they can mess with time why the heck did the twins even bother with booker since they are the ones that even made it all possible?
Beat it this weekend. I managed to stay clear of most spoilers about the game. I stopped looking at anything over a year ago.
Only thing ill say outside of spoiler is that the game really is a mind fuck.
For fans of the old bioshocks i think the ending reveal was less a payoff because everyone was expecting a massive twist....and yes they got one in the 'lighthouses'...but a smaller one with booker.
The start of the game feels a little disjointed..seeing the twins for the first time doesnt really confuse. Seeing them a second or third time then you start with the mind fuckery and you wondering what the hell was going on. Until you free Elizabeth from her prison your in a state of confusion as to whats real and what isnt. You begin to dream of even bigger twists to the plot...what if Elizabeth is the real villan of this game...are the twins trying to help or hurt?
The problems with the story is that the transition and reasons from bringing the player from one event to another isnt seemless. Okay so it kinda makes sense that they move to a world where chen is alive, and its believable that they arent sophisticated enough to think that other things could also be different. but when they get to the tools the idea that they can go to a world where the tools werent there, and have a living chen seems like a leap of faith that they chose just because the stuff was too heavy to move.
Its not enough to make me dislike the game, I just wish it had been a smoother train of logic.
Next....Slate. but knowing now what i know about the ending there seems to be some confusion. Slate knew Booker...and he obviously knows comstock. did he not know comstock was booker? If he knew then his whole reason for rebelling was crap because it was based around thinking comstock had no military service and was stealing glory from the troops. If he had been with comstock since pretty much the beginning of columbia it seems odd he could recognize bookers face from 20 years ago but comstock obviously took a few years to go white and bushy beard...youd think he would have recognized comstock a long time ago.
The Rapture/ lighthouse section was pretty damn awesome. Not only was it wrapping up this game but it was saying that Bioshocks are linked and that the licence can continue as a kind of alternate universe unto itself. They could even cross over between universes in the future. I think the next 'city' for the next 'bioshock' will be a spaceship.
Does anyone know what the various choices result in? I didnt peg the black/white couple and got an item for it...i didnt shoot slate and saw him in an interrigation room later...those are the two main choices i can think of.
This also makes you think about DLC. What are they planning to have since there are no multiplayer bits to add on? single player content would...what? maybe the prequel viewpoint of booker in the vox populi world where he was martyered?
you should really play system shock 2.
Please. I played system shock 1 and 2 when you were still in diapers ya whipper snapper!
but while it may have been a spiritual successor, the two games really arent very much alike. They still could move on to making a 'city' in space .
but nah, ss2 is totally a city in space, has the same ideals and hell one of the same twists as the bio 1. infact i said the same theme as bio 2, even though bio 2 sucks so much.
Deaderinred has been kidnapped by C2B and is being held for ransom! Solve the riddle to set em' free, or I'll hand em' over to Clamps!
I’m broken in shambles but still breathing FRESH as the day I was cooked up But time HARDENS me revealing Death comes lookin, I’ll fuck him up Which forumer am I?
Was time travel tacked on at the end of development or something? For most of the game its like time is flowing normally but god only knows how many bookers the twins are steering in parallel. After old ellisabeth though, the story starts bouncing around time. If they can mess with time why the heck did the twins even bother with booker since they are the ones that even made it all possible?
because
everything that has happened has happened and will happen and already has happened but also it hasnt happend.
Are we certain Slate did not know Comstock was DeWitt?
It seemed probable that Comstock called him up and said, "Hey old war-buddy, want to lead the Columbian armed forces?"
And then Slate ranting and raving that Comstock "wasn't there", etc., was metaphorical. You gave yourself a new name and started acting like a completely different person, like a coward! You're not the man I once knew!
And then in the midst of Slate descending into desperate madness as his military rebellion fails, Booker shows up and starts killing Comstock's forces, convincing Slate's delirious mind that Comstock is literally not DeWitt.
But I don't remember the details of that section of the game well enough to scrutinize the viability of that theory.
I assume that when Comstock started hyping himself based on wounded knee, he was already so aged that Slate didn't recognise him as Booker - as must have been the case when they met for the first time.
The entire time I was expecting some kind of twist (because everyone was alluding to one, thinking of the 'you are comstock' at some point, but disregarding it later. When the bloody nose came I became sure of it (as people got it who were killed in another world), until it was revealed comstock stole your daughter and Anna is Elizabeth. 'Holy shit', I thought - that's a cool twist. And then it came back and ahhhhhhhh
Ok, I looked through the previous posts to see if this had been discussed already, but reguarding vigors:
So, while vigors could be nothing more than plasmids stolen from Rapture through a tear, I got to thinking about the predominant science used by the twins and how that might be applied. Every time Booker drinks a new vigor (like an idiot) he ends up "hallucinating" dying a horrible death (like an idiot.) When you get Devil's Kiss, he burns alive. When you get Shock Jockey, his body is consumed by conductive crystals. When you get murder of crows...well the cutscene of drinking that one doesn't speak to it so much as the idle animation of booker's hand mutating into an anthropomorphic crow hand/tallon.
What if vigors cause the drinker to be partially splinched with a parallel booker who is burning alive, being consumed by conductive crystals, mutating into a horrible crow monster, ect? How does drinking a liquid do that? No idea. But it's a more entertaining thought experiment for me than just accepting that they could've stolen it from Rapture.
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Beat it this weekend. I managed to stay clear of most spoilers about the game. I stopped looking at anything over a year ago.
Only thing ill say outside of spoiler is that the game really is a mind fuck.
For fans of the old bioshocks i think the ending reveal was less a payoff because everyone was expecting a massive twist....and yes they got one in the 'lighthouses'...but a smaller one with booker.
The start of the game feels a little disjointed..seeing the twins for the first time doesnt really confuse. Seeing them a second or third time then you start with the mind fuckery and you wondering what the hell was going on. Until you free Elizabeth from her prison your in a state of confusion as to whats real and what isnt. You begin to dream of even bigger twists to the plot...what if Elizabeth is the real villan of this game...are the twins trying to help or hurt?
The problems with the story is that the transition and reasons from bringing the player from one event to another isnt seemless. Okay so it kinda makes sense that they move to a world where chen is alive, and its believable that they arent sophisticated enough to think that other things could also be different. but when they get to the tools the idea that they can go to a world where the tools werent there, and have a living chen seems like a leap of faith that they chose just because the stuff was too heavy to move.
Its not enough to make me dislike the game, I just wish it had been a smoother train of logic.
Next....Slate. but knowing now what i know about the ending there seems to be some confusion. Slate knew Booker...and he obviously knows comstock. did he not know comstock was booker? If he knew then his whole reason for rebelling was crap because it was based around thinking comstock had no military service and was stealing glory from the troops. If he had been with comstock since pretty much the beginning of columbia it seems odd he could recognize bookers face from 20 years ago but comstock obviously took a few years to go white and bushy beard...youd think he would have recognized comstock a long time ago.
The Rapture/ lighthouse section was pretty damn awesome. Not only was it wrapping up this game but it was saying that Bioshocks are linked and that the licence can continue as a kind of alternate universe unto itself. They could even cross over between universes in the future. I think the next 'city' for the next 'bioshock' will be a spaceship.
Does anyone know what the various choices result in? I didnt peg the black/white couple and got an item for it...i didnt shoot slate and saw him in an interrigation room later...those are the two main choices i can think of.
This also makes you think about DLC. What are they planning to have since there are no multiplayer bits to add on? single player content would...what? maybe the prequel viewpoint of booker in the vox populi world where he was martyered?
Comstock SPOILERS
Comstock is so adamantly ashamed of his life, past, and identity before his baptism he would rather see his old comrades slaughtered before telling his old friend he was once Booker DeWitt. The journal entries explain that when his memoirs were written, he refused to talk about anything before his baptism.
This game is fun when you're somewhat afraid of heights and seeing yourself falling in game actually startles you.
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Posts
So I feel there's been deceit
I helped sell a ton of copies
Yet all I'm known for is a RECEIPT
Which forumer am I?
LewieP?
Slash000
So I feel there's been deceit
I helped sell a ton of copies
Yet all I'm known for is a RECEIPT
Which forumer am I?
I’m the FASTEST there is, best not try it
It’s not about the ending, it’s about the JOURNEY
Isn’t that nice? Wait til you get to know me!
Which forumer am I?
Not to mention the fact that the #77 raffle ticket never happened in the Vox Populi world since it was already in a state of lockdown. The flipping heads only goes to show that the Booker selected always picks heads. Someone said earlier that it can land tails. The songbird can't always stop Booker if he doesn't always get the chance to look for her, preventing a constant. For what is a constant that doesn't happen? The argument that ending in the game always leads to the baptism ignores that Comstock ought to occur given infinite possibilities which exclude your "constants." We know for a fact that time split before the baptism. And who existed after the baptism? Which Booker? A Booker which wasn't drowned during the baptism "constant?" A Booker with unchecked infinite possibilities? Infinite possibilities that preceded the birth of his daughter? Or was only the "constant" simply negated?
Even still, you're insisting that some things must remain constant for the story to happen, and for Elizabeth to acquire the powers to prevent he story and her own birth. How did she go back in time to stop her own birth if she was never born? Does she exist outside of spacetime? Then why do they blink out of existence once Booker drowns? Is this not a plot hole?
Do constants not diminish the impact of 'Infinite?' Did the writers not create too many plot holes, with they tried to close with contrived deus ex machina (ie her sudden omniscience)? What of Comstock's prophecies of how it would end, despite Elizabeth undoing everything? His prophecies which specifically mention that Elizabeth would be lead astray by Booker, who then dies in one of the alternate universes in which an alternate Comstock resides? Paradoxical, no? Assuming his prophecies were bullshit: why didn't he try harder to stop Booker? Why didn't he provide a more accurate description of him? Why didn't he send the Songbird after him in the beginning?
Needless convolution, diminished importance of the Infinite theme, and distraction of the game's satirical elements.
This isn't nearly as clear cut as people seem to think it. Great game, but the writers painted themselves into a corner.
But that’s nothing compared to the shit I deal with
For a brief stint, I tried adoption
But the kid I got turned out to be rotten
Which forumer am I?
I drink that shit up like fresh sangria
Is that enough to FILL YA?
Now quiet you’re interrupting my animes.
Which forumer am I?
I just don't think you get it.
You have no way of knowing that.
The flipping heads only goes to show that the Booker selected always picks heads.
They never state this either.
The songbird can't always stop Booker if he doesn't always get the chance to look for her, preventing a constant
It's constant for any rescue attempt made by any Booker, which is why Elizabeth says "Songbird ALWAYS STOPS YOU."
The argument that ending in the game always leads to the baptism ignores that Comstock ought to occur given infinite possibilities which exclude your "constants."
No, Comstock always comes into existence from Booker DeWitt, accepting a baptism. That is a constant. In every world where there is a Comstock, that's where he came from.
We know for a fact that time split before the baptism.
This is just factually wrong.
And who existed after the baptism?
Comstock. Always, Comstock.
How did she go back in time to stop her own birth if she was never born?
If she wasn't born, she probably couldn't, but she was! After the siphon was destroyed she could see everything, behind every door, and knew the time and place that gave birth to every Comstock.
Is this not a plot hole?
It is not.
Did the writers not create too many plot holes, with they tried to close with contrived deus ex machina (ie her sudden omniscience)?
Its not sudden, you're told that the siphon is what was keeping her from using her powers to their fullest. Once it was gone, she could see it all.
What of Comstock's prophecies of how it would end, despite Elizabeth undoing everything? His prophecies which specifically mention that Elizabeth would be lead astray by Booker, who then dies in one of the alternate universes in which an alternate Comstock resides? Paradoxical, no?
No. Because Comstock only used the Lutece Field and Tears to observe other possibilities, which he mistakenly took as Prophecy. This is stated in an Audio Log. Comstock saw a possibility of Elizabeth burning down NY after Booker 'vanished' leaving her alone and took that for prohecy.
why didn't he try harder to stop Booker? Why didn't he provide a more accurate description of him? Why didn't he send the Songbird after him in the beginning?
Because he was operating under the assumption that he would get Elizabeth back anyway, and Booker would 'vanish' and not come for her. Which happened when old Elizabeth pulls Booker into her reality.
This isn't nearly as clear cut as people seem to think it
It actually is.
Only thing ill say outside of spoiler is that the game really is a mind fuck.
The start of the game feels a little disjointed..seeing the twins for the first time doesnt really confuse. Seeing them a second or third time then you start with the mind fuckery and you wondering what the hell was going on. Until you free Elizabeth from her prison your in a state of confusion as to whats real and what isnt. You begin to dream of even bigger twists to the plot...what if Elizabeth is the real villan of this game...are the twins trying to help or hurt?
The problems with the story is that the transition and reasons from bringing the player from one event to another isnt seemless. Okay so it kinda makes sense that they move to a world where chen is alive, and its believable that they arent sophisticated enough to think that other things could also be different. but when they get to the tools the idea that they can go to a world where the tools werent there, and have a living chen seems like a leap of faith that they chose just because the stuff was too heavy to move.
Its not enough to make me dislike the game, I just wish it had been a smoother train of logic.
Next....Slate. but knowing now what i know about the ending there seems to be some confusion. Slate knew Booker...and he obviously knows comstock. did he not know comstock was booker? If he knew then his whole reason for rebelling was crap because it was based around thinking comstock had no military service and was stealing glory from the troops. If he had been with comstock since pretty much the beginning of columbia it seems odd he could recognize bookers face from 20 years ago but comstock obviously took a few years to go white and bushy beard...youd think he would have recognized comstock a long time ago.
The Rapture/ lighthouse section was pretty damn awesome. Not only was it wrapping up this game but it was saying that Bioshocks are linked and that the licence can continue as a kind of alternate universe unto itself. They could even cross over between universes in the future. I think the next 'city' for the next 'bioshock' will be a spaceship.
Does anyone know what the various choices result in? I didnt peg the black/white couple and got an item for it...i didnt shoot slate and saw him in an interrigation room later...those are the two main choices i can think of.
This also makes you think about DLC. What are they planning to have since there are no multiplayer bits to add on? single player content would...what? maybe the prequel viewpoint of booker in the vox populi world where he was martyered?
XBL |Steam | PSN | last.fm
you should really play system shock 2.
It seemed probable that Comstock called him up and said, "Hey old war-buddy, want to lead the Columbian armed forces?"
And then Slate ranting and raving that Comstock "wasn't there", etc., was metaphorical. You gave yourself a new name and started acting like a completely different person, like a coward! You're not the man I once knew!
And then in the midst of Slate descending into desperate madness as his military rebellion fails, Booker shows up and starts killing Comstock's forces, convincing Slate's delirious mind that Comstock is literally not DeWitt.
But I don't remember the details of that section of the game well enough to scrutinize the viability of that theory.
Potatoes
I know it's all a LOT more complicated than that, and not the only answer, I'm just interested in that as A Thing, much like Bioshock's "A Man Chooses" was also a commentary on player choice and how we kinda blindly follow the orders of the Voice On the Radio in games. Each of our Bookers is slightly different, even if we end in the same place; mine threw the baseball at the announcer and chose the bird, he likes Crows and Sniper Rifles, he's no good at skylines, and he hid in a corner and cried during Comstock House. Yours probably differs on some level, even if it's a small one.
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
System Shock 2 is so amazing, I can't quite remember exactly how relevant it is to the Bioshocks, however, the huge draw of it is that the "theme" or, "soul", if you will, of the Bioshock genre is so prominent in there.
I was a little uneasy about Bioshock Infinite at first, because I was really taken aback at the "babysitter simulator" that I thought it was going to be. Boy was I wrong, although, I must say, the Penny Arcade cartoon about the Disney Princess...spot on. I find myself warily glancing her way every time I do an execute. To be honest, though, I didn't think of Elizabeth as Belle, I thought of her as Ariel :P
WiiU Username: MordaRazgrom
Steam Username: MordaRazgrom
WoW/Diablo 3 Battlenet Battletag: MordaRazgrom#1755
Me and my wife have a gamer YouTube page if interested www.youtube.com/TeamMarriage
A lot of the "gameplay" reasons for running around are a bit contrived and I theorize it has something to do with the assets having been done before the whole mutliple-timelines thing was fully fleshed out. There is a line with the heavy machinary where Booker says, "We didn't think this through." which can be said for a lot of decisions Booker makes not only in Columbia but in his life. Elizabeth is also naive having been sheltered her whole life.
Comstock aged rapidly and became sterile due to over-exposure to the tears. It's reasonable to think Slate wouldn't know this Booker as he shouldn't be that old. Of all the plot points to analyze or look past for the sake of the narrative, Comstock's advance aging is the one contrivance that bothers me the most and I wish it was handled differently. Again though I think it was because the setting and principle characters were established before Levin came up or revealed the overarching plot.
-Louis C.K.
re:choices
that's how I interpret it
ending spoilers, of course
This is the most amazing thing I've found in Infinite yet so far.
'Everything I Got is Done and Gone" -- A little boy plays the guitar whilst a girl sings in a bad part of Columbia.
I can't find this song anywhere; was it made just for the game? It's beautiful.
Edit:
Wait, found it! It's actually 'pawned' instead of 'gone'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZiBGsGZONY
Where the hell is this?!
Xbox | x Dredgen Yor x |
sometimes it ain't cheap
With but a single flip
I had lost my JEEP
Which forumer am I?
I'm about 8 hours in, but I'm goin real slow.
More specific spoilers:
Please. I played system shock 1 and 2 when you were still in diapers ya whipper snapper!
but while it may have been a spiritual successor, the two games really arent very much alike. They still could move on to making a 'city' in space .
but nah, ss2 is totally a city in space, has the same ideals and hell one of the same twists as the bio 1. infact i said the same theme as bio 2, even though bio 2 sucks so much.
FRESH as the day I was cooked up
But time HARDENS me revealing
Death comes lookin, I’ll fuck him up
Which forumer am I?
because
edit: goddamnit c2b, i'm worth quad that.
Well it was quite a ride. Dayummm
My RANK was quite the prize
No matter where I hold court
You might say I'm easy on the EYES
Which forumer am I?
What if vigors cause the drinker to be partially splinched with a parallel booker who is burning alive, being consumed by conductive crystals, mutating into a horrible crow monster, ect? How does drinking a liquid do that? No idea. But it's a more entertaining thought experiment for me than just accepting that they could've stolen it from Rapture.
3DS Friend Code: 1461-7489-3097
When you enter...
Comstock SPOILERS
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".