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Alpha Protocol: Apparently now an Obsidian gossip thread

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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Stolls wrote: »
    Mina's all right, I just wish you weren't forced to have her as a handler all the time.

    Anyhoo, doing more testing on the Marburg thing. Negative rep and a full dossier don't seem to be the sole triggers; got him to -5, max dossier (minus secret fact, which doesn't show up until the endgame) and background on Deus Vult from Mina. No go regardless of the options.

    Wikia makes it sound like you have to consistently pick more Suave options than the others over the course of the game, which sounds... asinine. Away from my computer at the moment so I'll have to mess with this when I get home.

    Incidentally, SIE apparently likes it when you shoot the piano in Marburg's villa.

    I know this isn't scientific but I managed to get marburg to fight me in Rome solely with being suave to him (no one else during the game), being stealthy all through Rome except for killing the guy in the villa, and picking the bomb and without a full dossier. I'm not sure what is making it so hard for a lot of people. I pretty much just James Bonded him the three times you meet him and by the time of the museum he was ready to die by my invisible, pistol-whipping hand

    initiatefailure on
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    C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    The only way to avoid pushing relationships to the edges being the "right" method would be either a) giving each handler a specific, discrete effect at each level of relationship (-10 to +10) or b) removing the effects from the relationship track altogether.

    The first would be so complex as to bewilder most players and the latter would remove any weight from the handler relationship altogether.
    I think what jdarksun is talking about is that relationship bonuses shouldn't be a slider tied to the character's like-dislike, but two seperate bars that acummulate positive and negative resposes, i.e. how Paragon/Renegade works in ME.
    Yup. As I said last page,
    jdarksun wrote: »
    If you want there to be no "wrong" answer, you have to reward each outcome of a conversation instead of a tracking progress on a diametrically opposed scale.

    Which is all I've been saying (well, that and suggesting some alternatives to "no, you picked the wrong dialog option, lose that cool perk/whatever you've been trying to get.").

    1. Again, Avellone did mean a completly different thing then what you are talking about here. It is NOT about the perks you get.

    2. That would make less sense as a relationshipmeter. So because you fill both bars she likes you but at the same time hates you?

    3. Answers would still be wrong in the form of when you fill on one bat but wanted to fill the other it would STILL be the WRONG answer from a certain point of view.




    And again, what are you people talking about? What has ANYTHING of this to do with the concept of right and wrong.

    I mean if we go that far with the definition we could find thousands of other reasons.

    C2B on
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    StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I know this isn't scientific but I managed to get marburg to fight me in Rome solely with being suave to him (no one else during the game), being stealthy all through Rome except for killing the guy in the villa, and picking the bomb and without a full dossier. I'm not sure what is making it so hard for a lot of people. I pretty much just James Bonded him the three times you meet him and by the time of the museum he was ready to die by my invisible, pistol-whipping hand

    Interesting. It might be just him that you need to be consistently suave too, though it's not worded that way. I've got a save during the CIA mission, I'll give it another go and try that; I picked aggressive a few times for negatives.

    Also, I would've liked to call on Albatross some more as a handler. Or even just have him show up more often in general, he was a stand-up guy.

    Not like Wen. No, sir. Not like Wen at all.

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    l337CrappyJackl337CrappyJack Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I will say that AP is the first video game that ever made me really intrigued by an entirely silent character. It's pretty impressive that Sis worked, especially as well as she did.

    l337CrappyJack on
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    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I think the reason that Sis and Albatross worked and were as awesome as they were was because you never really knew anything about them at all

    All the other characters, once you learn everything about them, end up feeling rather tired and cliched if you've seen or read a lot of spy fiction, or just weren't very interesting

    One of the exceptions to that rule being Omen Deng, but he's not in the game very much at all

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    C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Can't find the exact interview you were reffering to originally (Link please^^) but lets start with other times

    1. Comic Con: They talked about wrong choices and refered too how the original Dragon Warrior didn't let you continue after choosing another than the right answer (which most jrpgs do)

    2.
    Chris Avellone: When you see a Speech skill in a role-playing game, it's usually the "correct" response. That's not much of a choice. So we made the "speech skill" based on actions you take in the game world including research, paying attention to cues in the dialogue, your attitude when speaking to someone, the amount of Intel you've gathered or purchased, and how you treat other people - not just the person you're talking to. We want you to act the way you want when choosing a stance or action, not have a skill point you to the "best" option.

    In addition, dialogue in Alpha Protocol is complicated in that you don't always want to succeed in a conventional speech check against someone. In the spy feel of the game, there are many positive and negative repercussions to dealing with folks that pay off immediately (which is how players have been trained with Speech) but also longer-term counterbalancing positive and negative repercussions (which do undermine how Speech skills are perceived). By the end of the game, there isn't always a clear win when all's said and done - just reactivity.

    In short, the payoffs for a response or behavior that would be typically defined by a short-term Speech skill success are often "too soon to tell," both immediately and in missions down the road.

    Hey, I have a problem. I don't see a sentence that refers to skill bonuses in regards to wrong choices. But according to you there must be. *Please allow me the sarcasm^^*



    So, I found TONS of others. Should I post them too?

    Edit: Naturally the Skill Bonuses ARE rewards (he talks about them too) but he didn't meant it in the context. He clearly was referring to that every answer was a viable way in some form or another and youre not railroaded to take the "best" option.

    C2B on
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    StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Yeah, Sis and Albatross are interesting because a lot goes unexplained. It's not that he's pretending to be on the level while secretly hiding important information from you, he's just up front about the fact that he's not going to tell you everything. And he still turns out as one of the more reasonable people in the game, all told.

    Deng didn't get much screen time, but the game successfully faked me out with him and I had nobody but myself to blame. It all made sense once you actually read his bio, which I neglected to do and assumed "young guy with grey hair + cape + shooting at me = kill this dude now."

    Five minutes later, boy was my face red.

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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Yeah, I read Omen's dossier first, and was confused about why we were fighting the whole way through Taipei :?

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    C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Spoit wrote: »
    Yeah, I read Omen's dossier first, and was confused about why we were fighting the whole way through Taipei :?

    Yeah, that always bugged me during my runthroughs. The dossiers themselves with the information are placed on completly weird points in the game.

    C2B on
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    C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Hm, wait a sec. That kinda flies in the face of the this "act the way you want" concept, doesn't it? AP is actively penalizing you for choosing a "wrong" answer.


    2. No, because seriously. You are interpreting and draw a connection here that doesn't exist. Strongly. He clearly speaks about the game world/story in itself. I don't think during Development he even drew the connection you do and Perks were integrated for a more rewarding feeling.
    His use of right and wrong/good or bad STILL doesn't refer to it.

    Edit: Ok, I get what you want to say. I still don't think that is what the developers wanted/refered to. I mean if we go that far we could also talk how linear the gameplay itself is and many times only leaves one option which is itself a "bad" choice.

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    Katsuhiro 1139Katsuhiro 1139 Dublin, IrelandRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I played this through based on the recommendations made within this thread. Anything even remotely reminiscent of Deus Ex is a must-buy for me, and former PC gamers turned console jockeys like myself are given limited options.

    I enjoyed the storyline and organic nature of the game itself, but the game mechanics themselves were horrid; I'm also not entirely sure I could do another playthrough, although that's not necessarily the game's fault - once I've settled on what I would do, I tend to just repeat my previous actions over and over.

    It's a shame it's not getting a sequel - I feel the developers could make a really strong follow up, with the benefit of using the first game as a trouble-shooting exercise. SEGA be damned!

    Katsuhiro 1139 on
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    l337CrappyJackl337CrappyJack Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Try it, man. Even slight changes in your choices can have huge repercussions. My first character was a freewheeling ladies' man spy. I just played a freewheeling ladies' man veteran. The number of differences in playthroughs were shocking.

    l337CrappyJack on
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Stuff that you don't even think will have an impact, or notice that you're doing differently, can really change the way it plays out.

    I've played through over a dozen times and I'm still finding stuff I'd never seen before.

    OptimusZed on
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    l337CrappyJackl337CrappyJack Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Seriously. The number of ways things can go at the Embassy with Surkov are shocking. Everything from helping him out and forging a partnership to him pulling a gun on you, and Mike grabbing it out of his hands and shooting him with it. And that's just one little segment in the game. And that one little segment has repercussions I was seeing all through the rest of the game.

    Most importantly, you can shoot a man with his own gun.

    It really is a game where doing things different has HUGE impacts, as opposed to most games where they just flip a line of dialogue here and there. Just making one character dislike you can literally change the entire flow of a region.

    l337CrappyJack on
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    StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    More Marburg testing. Details under the spoiler.
    I backtracked to the meeting and tried it how initiatefailure suggested, picking solely suave options with Marburg - even those that didn't drop his rep. I then proceeded as normal and saved at the museum branch, with Marburg's rep at -3 and his dossier at 83%. His final entry is in a closet across the balcony, so I tested both directions with and without a full dossier.

    Disarm the bombs, full dossier

    You get +1 for going after the bombs, but picking all suave options (contempt, etc.) gets -2 throughout the resulting conversation. When the mid-battle break started, I was able to taunt him into staying. His rep was at -4.

    Disarm the bombs, incomplete dossier

    Same dialog options picked, same setup, and same ending rep. Marburg still stuck around to fight when taunted. Mike still mentioned Deus Vult even though it wasn't in Marburg's dossier.

    Disarm the bombs, full dossier, attacked immediately

    Out of curiosity, I tried attacking Marburg as soon as the option came up, leaving his rep at -3. This time he escaped.

    Save Madison, full dossier

    I was mistaken earlier; apparently you don't get a -1 for going after Madison. Anyway, there are fewer dialog options on this path, and I wasn't able to decrease rep below -3. Marburg escaped.

    Save Madison, incomplete dossier

    Same setup as above, same outcome. -3 rep, Marburg escaped.

    Conclusions

    - Reputation is a factor, but it's not the only factor. At -3 he escaped, at -4 he stood and fought. However, in an earlier run -5 still wasn't enough, suggesting that suave choices are more important. If his rep had been dropped further earlier - shooting Al-Bara, for instance - then it's possible he would have stuck around even if I'd gone after Madison.

    - Clearly a full dossier is not necessary, but I'm not sure how low it can be. The fifth entry is just information about his martial arts expertise, while the sixth actually reveals his connection to Deus Vult; the info Mike mentions to needle Marburg into staying. Mina's email chain about the DV server may have a role in this, but I wasn't able to test it.

    - While I wasn't able to ascertain my ratio of suave choices to other options throughout the game, it was demonstrated that picking strictly those choices with Marburg was instrumental. It's possible they were roughly even and this just pushed suave above the rest, but more likely is that it only matters when you pick them to his face, even if they don't result in a rep decrease.

    TL;DR - At -4 rep, picking all suave options, and with at least 5/6 of his dossier, I was able to fight Marburg to the death. Anything higher on rep and he escaped, though the circumstances suggest being consistently suave to him is more important overall.

    Stolls on
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    farbekriegfarbekrieg Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Im new to the game and enjoying it, ive made it through Saudi and Rome, although reading through the comments it looks like i will need to replay it a few times.

    However i was wondering if there was some way to make hacking and picking a little less... brutal... I dont mind having to try 5x or so but i spent FOREVER on a few parts (the comm system in rome at the end, emp is not an option) and that was with 2 items equipped to make hacking and picking easier.

    Ive tried looking at the sabotage tree and maybe i missed it but there doesnt seem to be a "slow down time while picking or hacking option"

    I have the pc version and checked for a mod or two that might help my slow ass out (as the game seems to slow my mouse and arrow key movements down, and my twin monitor machine likes to let the mouse off screen both full screen and windowed versions making locks with more than 4 tumblers impossible as the game time keeps going even when the mouse is off in space.

    So any tips tricks jedi mind tricks mods ini hacks that could help me better enjoy the game?

    farbekrieg on
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    PC players have always had trouble with the hacking minigame. Something about mouse control, I'm on XBox so I haven't had to deal with it.

    I think anything that makes hacking "easier", be it the sabotage skill, printed/integrated circuitry or Intel, actually gives you a little more time as well. Other than that, I'd just say to remember that the bonuses stack (so Printed + Integrated means a big difference) and pack EMPs for the ones that are just too rough, and can be EMP'd.

    You can also just leave most of them, though it might mean missing out on Dossier intel or sub missions.

    OptimusZed on
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Also, just ignore where the cursor is for the 2 non-electronics minigames, and just focus on the moving part

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    farbekriegfarbekrieg Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Spoit wrote: »
    Also, just ignore where the cursor is for the 2 non-electronics minigames, and just focus on the moving part

    except of my course goes out of the defined game boundries the game stops responding to mouse movement and mouse clicks but the timer keeps running :( (both windowed and full screen give me the same problem)

    farbekrieg on
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Huh, even in non-windowed mode? No idea :(

    Spoit on
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    farbekriegfarbekrieg Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Spoit wrote: »
    Huh, even in non-windowed mode? No idea :(

    yeah its problematic in full screen it will prevent going off the bottom and the left, however up and to the right both cause the cursor to fly away and the game to gray screen, so any sudden movement (to the right mostly) usually gives me a loss of focus, game goes to tool tray and sometimes people shoot me to death. with the windowed mode it holds left and right movement but loses up and down... it is like the game wants me to fail, and i can do that all on my own.

    I could of course just unplug my 2nd monitor and recalibrate, but im a very very very.... very lazy man

    farbekrieg on
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    IT might be quicker to just disable it by right clicking on the desktop and going to the option where you change the screen resolution. But yeah, that's weird. I have 2 monitors too, and didn't have a problem with that

    Spoit on
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    joshgotrojoshgotro Deviled Egg The Land of REAL CHILIRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Someone in the know. Does this game run on Geforce8400 GS with 512 DDR?

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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    It ran fine on my 8800 gt. Not sure how those two cards compare though

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    C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Interview with Avellone speaks about different things including him wanting to do a "the Wire" or Harry Dresden RPG. (Zeni Max you have money PLEASE)

    http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/no...out-new-vegas/


    If there is a theme that threads throughout your work, it might be neutrality, or moral ambiguity. Many of your games put the player in a situation where there is no “right” answer. Do you do this as a way of letting the player write her own story, or do you have a bigger message?


    Players should be able to play an RPG the way they want, and they don’t need my moral judgments getting in the way of how they have fun. I also am not a fan of pre-determined attitudes and alignments for players-my hope is that at the end of the game, they’ve answered the question, “What kind of character am I really, and how did that depart from what I thought I would be?” I always considered Torment a sort of role-player’s experiment, where each incarnation of the Nameless One had the potential to be a different personality and a different type of gamer, depending on the choices he made in the game world. It’s echoed a bit in Alpha Protocol at the end of game with Leland, where he asks if you became the person you set out to be when you joined the agency, and it’s something I like to keep asking players when possible because moments of self-reflection never hurt.

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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    While I did like the "when reality met expectations" line, it was no "what can change the nature of a man"

    And while Zenimax has been the best publisher that obsidan has worked with, I'm not sure that it's worth the gamebyro baggage it brings.

    Spoit on
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    C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Spoit wrote: »
    While I did like the "when reality met expectations" line, it was no "what can change the nature of a man"

    And while Zenimax has been the best publisher that obsidan has worked with, I'm not sure that it's worth the gamebyro baggage it brings.

    Though Gamebryo was mostly used because of the timeframe the game was released in. I'm sure Bethesda would let them develop with Onyx. It's not like all the other companies under their wing don't work with different engines

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    kalkal Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    When is a good time to buy the top tier equipment? I'm one mission away from having nothing but the @ missions left in all the hubs and have close to 200k or so in the bank and I don't think I've bought anything but intel since Saudi .

    kal on
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    StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    kal wrote: »
    When is a good time to buy the top tier equipment? I'm one mission away from having nothing but the @ missions left in all the hubs and have close to 200k or so in the bank and I don't think I've bought anything but intel since Saudi .

    You're coming up on some combat heavy stretches, so now's as good a time as any to get some decent hardware. Frankly you can pretty much buy top-of-the-line guns whenever you like, just save a chunk of cash for gadgets and intel buys; 20/30k is plenty.

    Stolls on
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    gnodabgnodab Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I've been on an Obsidian kick since New Vegas came out and everything. Tried this game out last month, and I've had a ball with it so far. It's an awesome game, and glee ensues whenever I get a new ending.

    There's just one thing I'm wondering about, now that I've been through the game about 3 times:
    Someone's told me that there's a big reveal regarding Madison St. James. I haven't managed to trigger it in any of my playthroughs so far, she either dies or leaves because all the dudes in the museum died.

    Can anyone tell me how to trigger her reveal without actually spoiling what the reveal is for me? Do I have to be an asshole to her or what?

    gnodab on
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    SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    gnodab wrote: »
    I've been on an Obsidian kick since New Vegas came out and everything. Tried this game out last month, and I've had a ball with it so far. It's an awesome game, and glee ensues whenever I get a new ending.

    There's just one thing I'm wondering about, now that I've been through the game about 3 times:
    Someone's told me that there's a big reveal regarding Madison St. James. I haven't managed to trigger it in any of my playthroughs so far, she either dies or leaves because all the dudes in the museum died.

    Can anyone tell me how to trigger her reveal without actually spoiling what the reveal is for me? Do I have to be an asshole to her or what?
    You need to get her full dossier, including the secret fact, then talk to Parker.

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    Dox the PIDox the PI Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Just finished this game

    Apart from some of the boss fights I loved every minute of it
    Got with all the woman and was mostly Sauve

    so awesome 8-)

    Dox the PI on
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    WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Dox the PI wrote: »
    Got with all the woman and was mostly Sauve
    I missed out on SIE the first time through.

    Although now that I have seen her scene, perhaps 'missed out' isn't exactly the right word. :P

    WotanAnubis on
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    Dox the PIDox the PI Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Dox the PI wrote: »
    Got with all the woman and was mostly Sauve
    I missed out on SIE the first time through.

    Although now that I have seen her scene, perhaps 'missed out' isn't exactly the right word. :P

    I was like woah.....woah... WOAH!!1

    and Mike with the tape :lol:

    Dox the PI on
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    C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Patch for the rest of the World is now available!!!!!

    Fixes most issues including reduced mouse lag and checkpoint bug.

    http://help.sega.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=865


    So if you wanted to get AP but waited for a Patch, here it is.

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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Is it worth the $7.50 that it's currently on sale at steam for?

    HECK YES!!!

    Spoit on
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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    So I've been wondering if i've been part of the problem that ended with not AP sequel... I bought the game right around release, but it was a new sealed copy from an ebay store for a nice chunk off retail. Does that even count as a game sale or is it functionally the same as buying used at gamestop?

    initiatefailure on
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    C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Yes, AFAIK it still counts.

    As for the patch. There is a changelog now and guess what the first thing in it is?

    - To resolve activation issues, PC copy protection has been removed.


    Sega has given up on the Game but its really nice that they did that. I take back what I said.

    C2B on
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    HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    oh hey look, a alpha protocol thread I can actually find. Thanks for renaming the thread! I tried searching for so long lol.

    Ok so, recommendations? I'm gonna pick this up today, I hear going pistol will help me get past some of the crappyness of the combat? any other tips? Unofficial patches to use? etc?

    Hardtarget on
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    C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Changelog (Not complete as other things are also fixed)
    ALPHA PROTOCOL
    ==========================================================================
    This file contains the log of the fixes and changes made to Alpha Protocol
    since its initial release.

    VERSION 1.1
    - To resolve activation issues, PC copy protection has been removed.
    - In Moscow during the assault of Brayko's Mansion, the player could get
    into a situation where a door would not be openable preventing progression
    through the rest of the level. This has been fixed.
    - In Taipei, during the Stop the Assassination mission, the user can fall
    out of the world if they reload the "Exit Gardens" checkpoint. There was
    also a problem where if the player backtracked, part of the level might
    not load in properly. This has also been fixed.
    - In the same mission, a problem with subtitles was corrected.
    - In the museum in Rome, the game could crash when using Focused Aim to
    kill the NPC holding Madison in the elevator.
    - Bosses could get stuck in an accelerated mode when Fury wears off.
    - Chainsot was exploitable to slow time and get critical headshots without
    consuming its cooldown.

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