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Touhou Danmaku Yuugi -Flowers-
Gelsamel
Registered User new member
Registered User new member
Hi there everyone,
I just recently registered to see if anyone would like to talk about this Table Top RPG. There is a discussion going on over at the VGcats forum (a short discussion) I tried registering there but it's been a day and I'm still not confirmed so I figure I'd go somewhere more active and interested in Table Top RPGs.
For anyone unfamiliar with Touhou it's a bullet hell (danmaku) shooter made by Team Shanghai Alice (whose only member is a person who goes by the name ZUN). It is RIDICULOUSLY popular even outside of Japan and most people who are into anime or video gaming have at least heard of it.
Anyway, Touhou Danmaku Yuugi -Flowers- is a Table Top RPG that was made up for the Touhou setting which allows you to create your own characters are even spell cards (which, for the uninitiated are like special attacks). Recently it was translated into English and so now this game is available for an English speaking audience to play. I don't know if it's copyrighted, but for fear of being banned I won't link to it, I'm sure you can find it yourself.
One big problem is that either the translation, or the original writing, or both is terrible and so it's difficult to understand much of what the rulebook is trying to say.
Here is some of the interesting bits that I've been able to glean from the rulebook;
-Flowers (Classes) and Races determine base stats, then you CHOOSE a base stat to become your attacking (Bullet/Danmaku) stat. So Intelligence could be your attack stat if you want it to be, or it could be your charisma.
-There are no items, you can have any weapon you want. It's just an aesthetic/flavour thing. Your weapon is either what you use to create your Danmaku or what the Danmaku itself is.
-Combat is done on a grid, your class determines your normal attack's "Spread" but you can only attack one square of your spread at a time with your normal attack.
-Spell Cards can have a bunch of different spreads and ranges, damages etc. All determined by you. You make up your own spell cards, their names, how many targets they can hit, how long they last. Spell cards cost "Intensity" to cast and how much they cost is determined by a set of rules based off what statistics you give the spell cards. For instance if your spell card lasts 2 rounds then it adds 6 Intensity to the cost of the Spell Card.
-Intensity is gained from "Judgements" - Judgements are essentially the name for the process of determining rolls against Achievement Values. Achievement Values (AV) are the name for DCs and also the end roll you attain during a judgement. If you crit during a judgement (2 x 6s on a 2d6) you gain 10 Intensity, that is the only effect of critting. If you tie with the AV you gain 8 Intensity. If you get within 3 points of the AV you get 4 Intensity. If none of those things happen you get 2 Intensity. The loser of the roll's intensity bonus is halfed.
-Intensity, thus, works as a sort of anti-power gaming mechanics (assuming it's balanced well, not sure if it is yet). You can get skills that boost your achievement value during the judgement... but also skills which LOWER or even DIVIDE your achievement value during the judgement with the idea being to try and get within 3 of the AV (or even tie it). It might seem like it's not much intensity for the effort but it could make a difference if Spell Cards are suitably strong or Bosses really do need that extra oomph from the Intensity you've built up over killing mooks.
-HP works like lives in the Touhou games. 10 HP = one Live. And you only take damage in sets of 10 HP. No, not like that. You can be 'damaged' for less than 10 HP. But you only ever get "hit" for 10HP. That sounds weird. But it's trying to replicate the function of lives in Touhou games. In 4e HP isn't 'really' how many points worth of wounds you can take, or something like that. If it was then a bullet hitting you is most of your HP. So your first 9 HP in this game can be considered 9 points of your ability to dodge the danmaku patterns. The 10th HP is when you actually get hit by a danmaku and lose a life. Someone with 11 HP needs to be hit for 20 points worth of damage total before they game over. You also get 10 Intensity for each life you lose.
-You don't level up. You buy skills and stats directly with XP.
Because it's so difficult to understand exactly what is going on in the rulebook there are a few difficulties I'm having understand it. And thus there are some questions I'd like to pose;
1. Intensity bonus over just trouncing your opponent is 2... (4 if you get within 3, 2 bonus if you don't. So a profit of 2 Intensity for all that gaming) is that really enough to matter? Damage is determined by difference in AV value (up to a maximum of 10). If you get Intensity bonuses during Combat Judgements then why wouldn't you always win by 10 and do 10 damage and 2 Intensity instead of winning by 3 and doing 3 damage and getting 4 intensity? Is intensity THAT good?
2. The book hardly mentions the other stats that you don't get from Flowers/Races. Do you ONLY get them through Skills and XP buy? What is their use? Just for when the GM arbitrarily decides you need to roll against that value? There are no rules for how high AVs should be set for non-combat stuff or what type of stats you need to roll against to test if you win. Weird.
3. Game seems to be trying to mimic the gameplay of the shooters. While it introduces some interesting mechanics that could probably work well in other games (like Intensity (Grazing, I guess) as an anti-powergaming mechanic, or rather a different powergaming mechanic) it also introduces unncessary ones like the weird HP setup (The damage in sets of 10 only matters for granting Intensity for each lost life and for the remainder HP after dividing HP) or removing any sort of item system that could improve your characters.
4. What the fuck is with the weird skills that only have roleplay effects? You can make characters fall in love... a human can force non-humans into an "Impulse Judgement" (which causes them to have an impulsive reaction). The hell?
So, what do you think? It's weird, and nigh incomprehensible. Probably terrible, but it brings in some nice ideas I wouldn't mind seeing in some other RPGs. Might be interesting to run once or twice, but lack of character variable seems to be a game ruiner.
Edit: Found this link which goes over the game in better detail than I have here. Might be helpful for those trying to understand the rulebook http://cbvanguard.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/danmaku-yuugi-flowers/
I just recently registered to see if anyone would like to talk about this Table Top RPG. There is a discussion going on over at the VGcats forum (a short discussion) I tried registering there but it's been a day and I'm still not confirmed so I figure I'd go somewhere more active and interested in Table Top RPGs.
For anyone unfamiliar with Touhou it's a bullet hell (danmaku) shooter made by Team Shanghai Alice (whose only member is a person who goes by the name ZUN). It is RIDICULOUSLY popular even outside of Japan and most people who are into anime or video gaming have at least heard of it.
Anyway, Touhou Danmaku Yuugi -Flowers- is a Table Top RPG that was made up for the Touhou setting which allows you to create your own characters are even spell cards (which, for the uninitiated are like special attacks). Recently it was translated into English and so now this game is available for an English speaking audience to play. I don't know if it's copyrighted, but for fear of being banned I won't link to it, I'm sure you can find it yourself.
One big problem is that either the translation, or the original writing, or both is terrible and so it's difficult to understand much of what the rulebook is trying to say.
Here is some of the interesting bits that I've been able to glean from the rulebook;
-Flowers (Classes) and Races determine base stats, then you CHOOSE a base stat to become your attacking (Bullet/Danmaku) stat. So Intelligence could be your attack stat if you want it to be, or it could be your charisma.
-There are no items, you can have any weapon you want. It's just an aesthetic/flavour thing. Your weapon is either what you use to create your Danmaku or what the Danmaku itself is.
-Combat is done on a grid, your class determines your normal attack's "Spread" but you can only attack one square of your spread at a time with your normal attack.
-Spell Cards can have a bunch of different spreads and ranges, damages etc. All determined by you. You make up your own spell cards, their names, how many targets they can hit, how long they last. Spell cards cost "Intensity" to cast and how much they cost is determined by a set of rules based off what statistics you give the spell cards. For instance if your spell card lasts 2 rounds then it adds 6 Intensity to the cost of the Spell Card.
-Intensity is gained from "Judgements" - Judgements are essentially the name for the process of determining rolls against Achievement Values. Achievement Values (AV) are the name for DCs and also the end roll you attain during a judgement. If you crit during a judgement (2 x 6s on a 2d6) you gain 10 Intensity, that is the only effect of critting. If you tie with the AV you gain 8 Intensity. If you get within 3 points of the AV you get 4 Intensity. If none of those things happen you get 2 Intensity. The loser of the roll's intensity bonus is halfed.
-Intensity, thus, works as a sort of anti-power gaming mechanics (assuming it's balanced well, not sure if it is yet). You can get skills that boost your achievement value during the judgement... but also skills which LOWER or even DIVIDE your achievement value during the judgement with the idea being to try and get within 3 of the AV (or even tie it). It might seem like it's not much intensity for the effort but it could make a difference if Spell Cards are suitably strong or Bosses really do need that extra oomph from the Intensity you've built up over killing mooks.
-HP works like lives in the Touhou games. 10 HP = one Live. And you only take damage in sets of 10 HP. No, not like that. You can be 'damaged' for less than 10 HP. But you only ever get "hit" for 10HP. That sounds weird. But it's trying to replicate the function of lives in Touhou games. In 4e HP isn't 'really' how many points worth of wounds you can take, or something like that. If it was then a bullet hitting you is most of your HP. So your first 9 HP in this game can be considered 9 points of your ability to dodge the danmaku patterns. The 10th HP is when you actually get hit by a danmaku and lose a life. Someone with 11 HP needs to be hit for 20 points worth of damage total before they game over. You also get 10 Intensity for each life you lose.
-You don't level up. You buy skills and stats directly with XP.
Because it's so difficult to understand exactly what is going on in the rulebook there are a few difficulties I'm having understand it. And thus there are some questions I'd like to pose;
1. Intensity bonus over just trouncing your opponent is 2... (4 if you get within 3, 2 bonus if you don't. So a profit of 2 Intensity for all that gaming) is that really enough to matter? Damage is determined by difference in AV value (up to a maximum of 10). If you get Intensity bonuses during Combat Judgements then why wouldn't you always win by 10 and do 10 damage and 2 Intensity instead of winning by 3 and doing 3 damage and getting 4 intensity? Is intensity THAT good?
2. The book hardly mentions the other stats that you don't get from Flowers/Races. Do you ONLY get them through Skills and XP buy? What is their use? Just for when the GM arbitrarily decides you need to roll against that value? There are no rules for how high AVs should be set for non-combat stuff or what type of stats you need to roll against to test if you win. Weird.
3. Game seems to be trying to mimic the gameplay of the shooters. While it introduces some interesting mechanics that could probably work well in other games (like Intensity (Grazing, I guess) as an anti-powergaming mechanic, or rather a different powergaming mechanic) it also introduces unncessary ones like the weird HP setup (The damage in sets of 10 only matters for granting Intensity for each lost life and for the remainder HP after dividing HP) or removing any sort of item system that could improve your characters.
4. What the fuck is with the weird skills that only have roleplay effects? You can make characters fall in love... a human can force non-humans into an "Impulse Judgement" (which causes them to have an impulsive reaction). The hell?
So, what do you think? It's weird, and nigh incomprehensible. Probably terrible, but it brings in some nice ideas I wouldn't mind seeing in some other RPGs. Might be interesting to run once or twice, but lack of character variable seems to be a game ruiner.
Edit: Found this link which goes over the game in better detail than I have here. Might be helpful for those trying to understand the rulebook http://cbvanguard.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/danmaku-yuugi-flowers/
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." ~ Thomas Paine
Gelsamel on
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