I was top dps on my guild's first LK kill this week... and my destro lock has only 5200 gearscore -_- I did about 9500dps that fight.
I do comparatively awful dps when I switch to my affliction spec... but right after topping damage on lk, I joined a pug Ony 25, and was outdamaged by an affliction lock with similar gear to mine... I guess aff just has the better aoe?
Man, reading this past page I'm so happy I play LOTRO instead of WoW, I haven't met a single player who gave a fuck about how much dps you're doing and we can't even calculate gear levels.
I mean, if you enjoy number-crunching...by all means, but I'll be over here smoking pipe-weed with the hobbits.
I've gotten anything from 20 to 24k on Saurfang since 4.0.1 hit >_>
But destro's damage is still too high, and I'm not sure what other people get, but it's less.
Arcane's even more overpowered thanks to broken mana regeneration scaling.
Man, was in a raid to kill Kel'Thuzad for shits and giggles. 25-man. A Mage did 20k on Sapphiron. ALL he did was Arcane Blast, and Arcane Missiles when it procced.
Yeah that's how it is in most realms. The casual guilds are usually terrible and the good guilds are usually full of douchenozzles and neckbeards and just plan old socially inept guys who self-diagnosed themselves with aspergers.
Like the guy who yelled at my g/f for not doing more than 12-13k dps in ICC25 when the only people higher than her were people that were using ArP. Good job, retard. Then he brings in his warlock to show her how it's done and does 6k dps (he actually said it in vent to her). You fail.
tbf 12-13k dps on a fight like deathbringer saurfang is pretty abhorrent at this stage of the game unless you had the misfortune to be a combat rogue or something else that got horribly gimped
I'm sorry, what?
They must have changed the definition of abhorrent while I wasn't looking. I can't believe no one else called you out on this. Let me assure you. The vast majority of raiders would consider 12-13k dps to be good-verging-on-great dps on any fight. Doing more than that is the exception, not the rule.
You sure do hold some crazy elitist opinions about what constitutes a good player.
To apply some math (possibly poorly): with the 30% ICC buff you need to do 9.2k (ish) dps before the buff. Don't recall and too lazy to look but I want to say that if we're assuming a 25 man raid, with decent gear, that should be fairly easy. Particularly if your mastery is decent and you can adjust some stat that you have way too much of over to it.
Now, 9k in ICC means you're doing about 6.9k, which is probably a bit low if you have ICC/ToC level gear (I think, too lazy to check what dps was like coming into ICC).
edit: aldo, you can largely thank the vast numbers of wow players who are really comfortable with spreadsheets and math for the current numbers craze (provided you count in the usual epeen waving and people's tendancy to believe that statistics are always the best way to determine anything)
You have a lot more things multiplying your damage in a 25 man. It's still pretty easy for a 10 man raid to be missing various improtant buffs/debuffs.
I consider 10k or so to be a good baseline for 10 man people in 251+ gear. If you're not hitting that there's either a fight mechanic holding you back, you're doing it wrong, or both (or you're a combat rogue, apparently.) Personally I expect myself to do 12k+ on most 10 man fights. I don't do 25s that often but it's pretty easy for me to hit the upper teens on stand-and-nuke type encounters, and my gear's not anything to write home about really.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
You have a lot more things multiplying your damage in a 25 man. It's still pretty easy for a 10 man raid to be missing various improtant buffs/debuffs.
That's not supposed to be the case anymore.
But I'm not sure if it is or not.
I'll agree you'd expect someone in 251 to do a fair amount of less damage than someone in 277 gear though. 8-)
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
No, it's still true. It's probably possible to have a flawlessly optimized 10 man, but most raids aren't that. A lot of the biggest buffs are still spec-dependent and only provided by 2-3 specs; it's pretty easy not to have the spell damage debuff and the spellpower buff, for example.
The average 10 man will have enough a bigger variety of buffs/debuffs than before, but a 25 mans basically always have everything.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Adore: leveling in AV
Ok: Leveling in AB
Abhore: Leveling in WSG
That's the difference between 80% of a level for winning an AV, 40% of a level for AB and god knows how much of a level (next to nothing for a loss) when you spend 25 minutes in one sided capture the flag match you're not going to win
They should use the cataclysm as a good point to destroy all the old battlegrounds and do what I continue to say they should. Multiple maps per gametype and simplified gametypes. FUCK stupid shit where you collect the resources to capture the vehicles to unlock the flag boat to blah blah garbage. How about CTF and Zones, and maybe an attack/defend thing and have multiple maps for each.
But they never will, and I will continue to not play pvp.
So you want them to do away with the newer battlegrounds an only have AB/WSG type maps, just multiples of them?
That is a terrible idea. AB and WSG are already the most painfully bad battlegrounds that exist. At least Isle of Conquest is somewhat interesting. AV isn't really even a pvp BG, more like a race to get honor. Strand of the Ancients could be better, but it's basically WG lite, so if you don't like WG you're not going to like SotA. EotS is pretty good.
You have to keep in mind that, for the most part, their aims in BG's is to somewhat replicate a game of Warcraft, with players as the units. Holding an area and collecting resources is Warcraft. The fact that they've added in vehicles and bases and whatnot only extends this practice.
They're never going to gut out battlegrounds and do something incredibly dumb and boring like only have 2-3 gametypes, that exist already in every single game with multiplayer that exists in the history of ever.
AB has always been the most "PUG-resistant" BG for me, which counts for a lot. :P
EotS is technically my favorite battleground, but every single time I queue for it and get 14 teammates who camp the flag while we have 0 towers no matter what I or anyone else says/pleads turns me off from it for like, months. @[email protected] Well, a couple hours, but that's the same!
I honestly have never done AV at 80 but I don't think I want to. I want to keep the memories of it clear. Honestly no battleground -- nor even Wintergrasp -- is fun for me when my teammates are being ridiculously, inconceivably stupid. I hate PUG Warsong Gulch with a passion*, but I have oodles of fun group-queueing for WG with even just 1 or 2 friends. And honestly, 2 or 3 people coordinating is all it takes to steamroll most total PUG battleground teams. @[email protected]
* I seriously hear something snap in my brain every time I get into a WSG, we end up down a cap because my entire team is sitting with their flag in our base, and then they say, "hey, we'll just wait for the time to run out!" I try to explain to these nine _mystically silly gooses_ that we'll lose when time runs out, but ... they're still, every single time, somehow surprised by this utterly predictable behavior. o_O
Was in a pug Uthgardt Keep, or however you spell it. Was dps as an unholy dk. The tank quits, the healer quits after a couple of minutes waiting for a new tank. I swap over to blood spec so we don't have to wait anymore. We get a holy pally and fury warrior, same server/guild tag. The first thing that happens is that the fury warrior starts pulling groups, I tell him to stop, he's like "We need to go faster", healer says "Yeah pull faster. So we go on up the stairs, we do the dragon rider, pull a couple of the next room, clear it, I move on and pull some guys in the hall, and die because I have recieved no heals. Healer hadn't called stop, has 70% mana, just didn't heal. I'm like "what the fuck?" answer is "You're moving ahead too quick, I didn't have time to get off a heal, and you're taking too much damage too quick." Look asshole, if you can't get off a heal in the good 10 to 15 seconds it took for me to die (which was long enough to get everything down enough that they could finish the pull wihout a tank), it's not my fault. So we come up to the final boss, healer says "I don't think you can handle this boss, we should get a new tank. The two dps that began the dungeon of course call him a retard and say to go, I pull and we easilly kill him with me never going below 40%, and that only on the big attack he does.
I swear the only thing that kept me from pulling and dropping right after he went undead with the message "I do think we do need a new tank Mr Holy Paladin, and that since you know so much about tanking, that tank is YOU" was that I didn't want to miss out on JP and felt bad about screwing the dps that started the instance.
I still contend that eots is terribly designed. It's basically just a less interesting AB map, with a capturable flag that functions alternatively as 1) a distraction for terrible people and 2) a way for a vastly superior team to speed up their inevitable victory.
The map should just be in the shape of admiral ackbar's face
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
The ilvl inflation is one I think people forget a fair bit. With all the complaints about 'free epics' for lvl 232 stuff, and now 251 and 264 on vendors, it's easy to forget what a big bump that can be. Jump it up even more to 277 in every slot and it's a big freakin' difference, only accentuated by the ICC buff.
I was astounded how much easier our second LK kill - with a few of the simpler heroics polished off on the way to him - was than the first.
You have a lot more things multiplying your damage in a 25 man. It's still pretty easy for a 10 man raid to be missing various improtant buffs/debuffs.
That's not supposed to be the case anymore.
But I'm not sure if it is or not.
I'll agree you'd expect someone in 251 to do a fair amount of less damage than someone in 277 gear though. 8-)
Anything over 13k is above average, way above average.
For instance we can kill HM saurfang with everyone doing 8k dps (lawl me, the tank, included), and only one mark going out. How often you switch and how much damage you do to the adds accounts for some of the dps loss too. Some people have longer ramp up times, so switching will kill their DPS.
But still pre 4.0 and before the ICC buff, 12k was amazing consider she was the top caster and the only one getting yelled at. Again the only ones above here were the classes that could use ArP to scale a bit more exponentially than stacking SP. I still find it hilarious his warlock only did 6k, he sure did show her. But that's what you get for gemming for your socket bonuses you tard.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Abhor: So blizzard is using Nightfall (and two other battlegroups that I can't recall the names of) to test out for LFD cross battlegroup. So far, no real difference in queue times between DPS or tank.
Along with not being able to /whisper or /inspect these people, one maddening thing I've noticed with the new guys? They seem to think that the harpoons from the UP gauntlet are Unique, or if they do pick up more than one, think you can't fire more than one per pass. Go go 6-8 passes before I finally grab enough harpoons myself to bring him down.
Abhor: So blizzard is using Nightfall (and two other battlegroups that I can't recall the names of) to test out for LFD cross battlegroup. So far, no real difference in queue times between DPS or tank.
Along with not being able to /whisper or /inspect these people, one maddening thing I've noticed with the new guys? They seem to think that the harpoons from the UP gauntlet are Unique, or if they do pick up more than one, think you can't fire more than one per pass. Go go 6-8 passes before I finally grab enough harpoons myself to bring him down.
How can they screw up a encounter two years after release? Are all these people new to game or resubscribes for the Cata release?
Adore: Since I've been solo'ing Molten Core for about a month on my new 80 Pally try to gather mats for Hand of Rags, I decided to be nice and lead a guild run for people to get their MC achievement. We had 6 80 run through there in less than an hour and as luck would have it, boom, the Eye dropped for me.
Earned the feat of strength [Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros]. Nov 3, 2010
Adore: Dusting off an old account, bringing a new main shammy to 80, and getting back in it after some ragequit/burnout/betterthingstododamnit time. I've decided this expansion around to play one and only one character fully and completely, no soul-sucking empire building here, just me and mah tauren on a strictly casual basis. The rest of the my character slots have been assassinated and will remain memorials to my poor time management skills.
Adore Mk2: The ease of gearing up with JPs and honor in the post WOTLK pre CATA void is...weird.
Abhor: The players I have to group with and heal while gearing up with JPs and honor in the post WOTLK pre CATA void. Sweet bubbling Bavarian beer brook, so many of these players are going to be in for a shock when they eat it in the CATA heroics (and even normals). It's like witnessing the bitter cold ends of the spectrum: some of the worst players I've ever grouped with and some of the best. It seems everyone in the middle has already geared up and gotten out, smartly. And if I have to heal another RogueIGotKingslayerLastWeekGOGOGOGOMyTimeIsWorthMoreThanYours I will KILL their puppies and kittens and sisters and grandmothers in my fantasies.
So can any PA'rs on the dark side of draenor reccomend any high-laritous Horde casual guilds? :winky:
Straygatsby on
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2010
Adore: It's SotA weekend.
The Plan.
THE PLAN
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2010
The plan is to get 7 sub rugs into a premade and detonate the last wall behind the yellow gate 2 minutes after the game starts.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
The plan is to get 7 sub rugs into a premade and detonate the last wall behind the yellow gate 2 minutes after the game starts.
I've done exactly 2 SotA games ever, so pardon the ignorant question. Is this plan largely based on sub rogues ambushing the shit out of everything and clearing a path for the demos, or can sub rogues do something to the wall itself somehow (that would make SotA special as opposed to, say, getting 7 sub rogues into AB :P)
The plan is to get 7 sub rugs into a premade and detonate the last wall behind the yellow gate 2 minutes after the game starts.
I've done exactly 2 SotA games ever, so pardon the ignorant question. Is this plan largely based on sub rogues ambushing the shit out of everything and clearing a path for the demos, or can sub rogues do something to the wall itself somehow (that would make SotA special as opposed to, say, getting 7 sub rogues into AB :P)
I'm guessing they teleport up onto(and then hop over) the walls by shadowstepping to players.
Septus on
PSN: Kurahoshi1
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2010
No. You shadowstep to the guns.
We've done tests. We can blow up the last wall faster
than you can move demos there unabated.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Our record is actually 2:35 I believe. But I don't think that was with enough firepower to blast the relic door in one go. I think one of us had to run back and grab another bomb from the south graveyard.
I thoguth there was bombs in the courtyard? Or do they not spawn until the last gate is down?
TheCrumblyCracker on
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2010
The bombs do not spawn until the gate preceding them is down.
Except for one that is next to the red gate.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Posts
I do comparatively awful dps when I switch to my affliction spec... but right after topping damage on lk, I joined a pug Ony 25, and was outdamaged by an affliction lock with similar gear to mine... I guess aff just has the better aoe?
I mean, if you enjoy number-crunching...by all means, but I'll be over here smoking pipe-weed with the hobbits.
Man, was in a raid to kill Kel'Thuzad for shits and giggles. 25-man. A Mage did 20k on Sapphiron. ALL he did was Arcane Blast, and Arcane Missiles when it procced.
Now, 9k in ICC means you're doing about 6.9k, which is probably a bit low if you have ICC/ToC level gear (I think, too lazy to check what dps was like coming into ICC).
edit: aldo, you can largely thank the vast numbers of wow players who are really comfortable with spreadsheets and math for the current numbers craze (provided you count in the usual epeen waving and people's tendancy to believe that statistics are always the best way to determine anything)
I consider 10k or so to be a good baseline for 10 man people in 251+ gear. If you're not hitting that there's either a fight mechanic holding you back, you're doing it wrong, or both (or you're a combat rogue, apparently.) Personally I expect myself to do 12k+ on most 10 man fights. I don't do 25s that often but it's pretty easy for me to hit the upper teens on stand-and-nuke type encounters, and my gear's not anything to write home about really.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
That's not supposed to be the case anymore.
But I'm not sure if it is or not.
I'll agree you'd expect someone in 251 to do a fair amount of less damage than someone in 277 gear though. 8-)
The average 10 man will have enough a bigger variety of buffs/debuffs than before, but a 25 mans basically always have everything.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
but whatever
Ok: Leveling in AB
Abhore: Leveling in WSG
That's the difference between 80% of a level for winning an AV, 40% of a level for AB and god knows how much of a level (next to nothing for a loss) when you spend 25 minutes in one sided capture the flag match you're not going to win
Who else thinks its way past due to put Ol' Yeller down?
But they never will, and I will continue to not play pvp.
That is a terrible idea. AB and WSG are already the most painfully bad battlegrounds that exist. At least Isle of Conquest is somewhat interesting. AV isn't really even a pvp BG, more like a race to get honor. Strand of the Ancients could be better, but it's basically WG lite, so if you don't like WG you're not going to like SotA. EotS is pretty good.
You have to keep in mind that, for the most part, their aims in BG's is to somewhat replicate a game of Warcraft, with players as the units. Holding an area and collecting resources is Warcraft. The fact that they've added in vehicles and bases and whatnot only extends this practice.
They're never going to gut out battlegrounds and do something incredibly dumb and boring like only have 2-3 gametypes, that exist already in every single game with multiplayer that exists in the history of ever.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
EotS is technically my favorite battleground, but every single time I queue for it and get 14 teammates who camp the flag while we have 0 towers no matter what I or anyone else says/pleads turns me off from it for like, months. @[email protected] Well, a couple hours, but that's the same!
I honestly have never done AV at 80 but I don't think I want to. I want to keep the memories of it clear.
* I seriously hear something snap in my brain every time I get into a WSG, we end up down a cap because my entire team is sitting with their flag in our base, and then they say, "hey, we'll just wait for the time to run out!" I try to explain to these nine _mystically silly gooses_ that we'll lose when time runs out, but ... they're still, every single time, somehow surprised by this utterly predictable behavior. o_O
Was in a pug Uthgardt Keep, or however you spell it. Was dps as an unholy dk. The tank quits, the healer quits after a couple of minutes waiting for a new tank. I swap over to blood spec so we don't have to wait anymore. We get a holy pally and fury warrior, same server/guild tag. The first thing that happens is that the fury warrior starts pulling groups, I tell him to stop, he's like "We need to go faster", healer says "Yeah pull faster. So we go on up the stairs, we do the dragon rider, pull a couple of the next room, clear it, I move on and pull some guys in the hall, and die because I have recieved no heals. Healer hadn't called stop, has 70% mana, just didn't heal. I'm like "what the fuck?" answer is "You're moving ahead too quick, I didn't have time to get off a heal, and you're taking too much damage too quick." Look asshole, if you can't get off a heal in the good 10 to 15 seconds it took for me to die (which was long enough to get everything down enough that they could finish the pull wihout a tank), it's not my fault. So we come up to the final boss, healer says "I don't think you can handle this boss, we should get a new tank. The two dps that began the dungeon of course call him a retard and say to go, I pull and we easilly kill him with me never going below 40%, and that only on the big attack he does.
I swear the only thing that kept me from pulling and dropping right after he went undead with the message "I do think we do need a new tank Mr Holy Paladin, and that since you know so much about tanking, that tank is YOU" was that I didn't want to miss out on JP and felt bad about screwing the dps that started the instance.
Killing some dude in PVE gear with a 30k brain freeze+ice lance. Totally made my day.
The map should just be in the shape of admiral ackbar's face
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I was astounded how much easier our second LK kill - with a few of the simpler heroics polished off on the way to him - was than the first.
Anything over 13k is above average, way above average.
For instance we can kill HM saurfang with everyone doing 8k dps (lawl me, the tank, included), and only one mark going out. How often you switch and how much damage you do to the adds accounts for some of the dps loss too. Some people have longer ramp up times, so switching will kill their DPS.
But still pre 4.0 and before the ICC buff, 12k was amazing consider she was the top caster and the only one getting yelled at. Again the only ones above here were the classes that could use ArP to scale a bit more exponentially than stacking SP. I still find it hilarious his warlock only did 6k, he sure did show her. But that's what you get for gemming for your socket bonuses you tard.
Oh hey, that was me you killed.
Along with not being able to /whisper or /inspect these people, one maddening thing I've noticed with the new guys? They seem to think that the harpoons from the UP gauntlet are Unique, or if they do pick up more than one, think you can't fire more than one per pass. Go go 6-8 passes before I finally grab enough harpoons myself to bring him down.
How can they screw up a encounter two years after release? Are all these people new to game or resubscribes for the Cata release?
Earned the feat of strength [Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros]. Nov 3, 2010
All pre-Cata goals are done. I can now quit. Hah.
Oh.
This is awkward.
Adore Mk2: The ease of gearing up with JPs and honor in the post WOTLK pre CATA void is...weird.
Abhor: The players I have to group with and heal while gearing up with JPs and honor in the post WOTLK pre CATA void. Sweet bubbling Bavarian beer brook, so many of these players are going to be in for a shock when they eat it in the CATA heroics (and even normals). It's like witnessing the bitter cold ends of the spectrum: some of the worst players I've ever grouped with and some of the best. It seems everyone in the middle has already geared up and gotten out, smartly. And if I have to heal another RogueIGotKingslayerLastWeekGOGOGOGOMyTimeIsWorthMoreThanYours I will KILL their puppies and kittens and sisters and grandmothers in my fantasies.
So can any PA'rs on the dark side of draenor reccomend any high-laritous Horde casual guilds? :winky:
The Plan.
THE PLAN
My plan was to completely avoid it because my faction has never won a SotA.
Abhor: That there isn't really a way for them to just rip the world in half while we watch it happen live.
I've done exactly 2 SotA games ever, so pardon the ignorant question. Is this plan largely based on sub rogues ambushing the shit out of everything and clearing a path for the demos, or can sub rogues do something to the wall itself somehow (that would make SotA special as opposed to, say, getting 7 sub rogues into AB :P)
I'm guessing they teleport up onto(and then hop over) the walls by shadowstepping to players.
We've done tests. We can blow up the last wall faster
than you can move demos there unabated.
Except for one that is next to the red gate.