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[Starcraft 2] Multiplayer discussion. Nerf Terran, Zerg, and Protoss please.

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    enderjsvenderjsv Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I was really hoping someone could answer this question I posted before.

    I thought in each class, if you had 50 people at rank 1, you had 50 people at rank 2, 50 at 3,...,50 at 100. Is this not correct? If not, how does it work?

    enderjsv on
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    EzekielEzekiel Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Trus wrote: »
    Is it just me? or is TvT the most fucking retarded matchup in SC?

    ZvZ

    What makes it worse?

    http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/2323

    That was this morning, one of my wakeup games. Didn't see that zergling at tower, didnt think he saw me make the cut over to the side base. Pissed me off so I crammed my lings down his throat.

    I find it really fun actually.

    Ezekiel on
    428475-1.png
    I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
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    KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Golf153 wrote: »
    Trus wrote: »
    Lurk wrote: »
    As I have been playing more and more, it has become apparent to me that Roaches are terribad. Outside of fighting Tossers using High Tossers, there is no point to them.

    Having their speed upgrade be T1 would make them better though.

    EDIT: It would be nice if Zerg got more creative upgrades.
    Zerglings? Speed
    Roaches? Speed
    Banelings? Speed
    Overlords? Speed
    plus
    Ultralisks in Beta? Speed

    Removing the speed upgrades (or making them cheaper/faster to research) would help Zerg so much in the early game.

    IMO Roaches would be great again if they were 1 food cost (i.e. early beta) and moving while burrowed wasn't an upgrade.

    not sure how i feel about the food cost, but moving while burrowed is too damn good to be a non-researched ability.

    Ketherial on
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    815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Wouldn't the solution be to make a Roach egg cost three food and contain two Roaches?

    edit: agreed that tunnelling claws should be inherent to the Roach.

    815165 on
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    enderjsvenderjsv Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    815165 wrote: »
    Wouldn't the solution be to make a Roach egg cost three food and contain two Roaches?

    That's not a horrible idea... then again, I bet you'd see nothing but roach rushes with that.

    edit: Yeah, on second thought, that wouldn't work. It'd be way too easy to mass produce roaches that way.

    enderjsv on
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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    an actual good solution would be to remove some of the beta roach nerfs and keep the supply count at 2.

    Jars on
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    KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Sirson wrote: »
    That would be nuts..

    The one egg would obviously cost doubel what a roach costs now

    nah still too good cause it only costs you one larvae.

    Ketherial on
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    CasedOutCasedOut Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I just hate how you have to research two things for roaches to move while burrowed, tunneling claws and burrow.

    CasedOut on
    452773-1.png
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    EzekielEzekiel Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Maybe terran should have to research two sets of stim, early on they get to pick who gets it, marines or marauders.

    Ezekiel on
    428475-1.png
    I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
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    TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Ketherial wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Sirson wrote: »
    That would be nuts..

    The one egg would obviously cost doubel what a roach costs now

    nah still too good cause it only costs you one larvae.

    Increase the cost per egg, bam; problem solved

    Trus on
    qFN53.png
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    BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Gosucoaching tourney in 3 hours!

    FIGHTING!


    Played a bunch of games with a friend of mine last night. He plays terran and all he wants to do is nuke people. So we turtle and I harass, divert attention while he nukes. It's actually been working and it is just the funniest thing in the game so far. Like the time when he laid down two nukes real close to a guys main. He moved all his workers away from the first nuke, right into the second one which took out all his workers. we lolled hard. He also keeps a ghost at our front wall incase they try and base trade, which worked out well last night when he nuked the other teams 20 stalkers that were breaking through.

    Buddies on
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    enderjsvenderjsv Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Buddies wrote: »
    Gosucoaching tourney in 3 hours!

    FIGHTING!


    Played a bunch of games with a friend of mine last night. He plays terran and all he wants to do is nuke people. So we turtle and I harass, divert attention while he nukes. It's actually been working and it is just the funniest thing in the game so far. Like the time when he laid down two nukes real close to a guys main. He moved all his workers away from the first nuke, right into the second one which took out all his workers. we lolled hard. He also keeps a ghost at our front wall incase they try and base trade, which worked out well last night when he nuked the other teams 20 stalkers that were breaking through.

    Defensive nukes are the best :P

    enderjsv on
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    KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    CasedOut wrote: »
    I just hate how you have to research two things for roaches to move while burrowed, tunneling claws and burrow.

    but they would pretty much be like dts. and they would be coming out super early.

    fighting them with toss would be a nightmare. either you'd have to have cannon or youd have to go fast robo. even with a fast robo, a mass of roaches would probably still own you considering how fast they regen when burrowed.

    Ketherial on
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    KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    Maybe terran should have to research two sets of stim, early on they get to pick who gets it, marines or marauders.

    i suggested this same thing a while ago. i think it really is the best way to deal with marauders being too cheap for how good they are. their stim should cost more too - maybe 150/150 or even 200/200.

    Ketherial on
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Klyka wrote: »
    Hey guys! Just reposting this, please check out this game I played! 45minutes long, already spotted quite a few mistakes on my part,but hey, I'm still a learning Silver player!

    Praise and criticism would be VERY appreciated!

    repimg-33-140509.jpg

    Few things I noticed:

    You were 26/26 for awhile before you built a pylon. You should have not built that last zealot and built the pylon at 24/26. It happened again at 50/50; try to stay ahead of being supply blocked. However, in general your early build order looked good!

    I would have built Immortals earlier; after seeing that many Marauders I would have chronoboosted out an Immortal, then built an observer. If you'd had the Immortal during that push he made you would have had a larger army at the end of it and probably could have counter-pushed and ended the game right then. The counter-push you did make wasn't large enough to bush through a wall, especially with a Medivac there. I might have retreated so that I didn't lose the forces.

    Your 2nd push with 2 Immortals and a bunch of Stalkers was a good idea, but again, you should have just killed the tanks and then retreated. Continuing to push into a stimmed bioball wasn't going to work.

    Your Twilight Council was really late; I would have built it right after my Robo so that I could upgrade my Weapons again, and get Blink. Speaking of which, you spent money to research Armor and Shields - you should have used that cash to drop the Twilight Council and get Blink, 10 minutes earlier than you did. Then you should have upgraded Weapons to 2 and 3; this makes the biggest difference.

    Never, ever, ever push with Colossi without Extended Thermal Lances. Ever. You should start researching it as soon as the Robo Bay goes down.

    Nice use of Stalkers and Colossi to go up the cliff, though. I would have held my Zealots and Immortals in reserve to stop a counter push though, suiciding them into the tanks was kind of a waste. For example, when he moved out, they could have pincered nicely, and then your stalkers and Colossi wouldn't have been in such a bad way.

    You didn't Chronoboost with your 2nd and 3rd Nexuses for a long time. I find it helps to put them all on 1 Control Group, and then just start chronoboosting everything, since at that point you have almost unlimited Chronoboost.

    Building more Gateways was a good instinct, but I would also have built at least 1 more robo facility to help you get out more Colossi.

    It took waaayyy too long to get the Colossi range upgrade. Like I said, you should start researching this before you even build your first Colossus. Also, Weapons 1-->2-->3 is a priority; you sat on 2 for a longass time.

    In the end the Terran lost because he just turtled; if he had pushed even once after you suicided your army against him he would have beaten you.

    I think your play was solid, but you tended to throw away units in attacks that weren't going to work. Be more cautious with your army - really good players will counterpush after defending, and you were basically defenseless after almost every attack you made. Your macro was great though! You kept up on economy and kept building and upgrading so that your money didn't pile up.

    3cl1ps3 on
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    KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Trus wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Sirson wrote: »
    That would be nuts..

    The one egg would obviously cost doubel what a roach costs now

    nah still too good cause it only costs you one larvae.

    Increase the cost per egg, bam; problem solved

    not sure what you mean. are you saying roaches should cost more than 75/25? so how much for 2 per 1 larvae?

    roaches have always been really cheap. it's easy to get enough mins and gas for them. im guessing the only way they thought they could have zerg stop overmassing them was to make them 2 food cost.

    personally, i think when they made roaches 2 food, they should have buffed the unit by like 30% and increased cost to 125/25. i think that woulda been a nice balance.

    Ketherial on
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    Golf153Golf153 Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Ketherial wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    I just hate how you have to research two things for roaches to move while burrowed, tunneling claws and burrow.

    but they would pretty much be like dts. and they would be coming out super early.

    fighting them with toss would be a nightmare. either you'd have to have cannon or youd have to go fast robo. even with a fast robo, a mass of roaches would probably still own you considering how fast they regen when burrowed.

    But they still have unburrow to fight, unlike dts, thus Protoss could include Void Rays, plus the range makes them horrible against Stalkers w/blink. Which Protoss should have by the time Zerg gets burrow. Still another way to do it would to just make regen the research upgrade.

    Golf153 on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Ketherial wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    I just hate how you have to research two things for roaches to move while burrowed, tunneling claws and burrow.

    but they would pretty much be like dts. and they would be coming out super early.

    fighting them with toss would be a nightmare. either you'd have to have cannon or youd have to go fast robo. even with a fast robo, a mass of roaches would probably still own you considering how fast they regen when burrowed.

    roaches+lair+roach upgrades is not exactly a fast build

    Jars on
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    JutranjoJutranjo Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Ketherial wrote: »
    Trus wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Sirson wrote: »
    That would be nuts..

    The one egg would obviously cost doubel what a roach costs now

    nah still too good cause it only costs you one larvae.

    Increase the cost per egg, bam; problem solved

    not sure what you mean. are you saying roaches should cost more than 75/25? so how much for 2 per 1 larvae?

    roaches have always been really cheap. it's easy to get enough mins and gas for them. im guessing the only way they thought they could have zerg stop overmassing them was to make them 2 food cost.

    personally, i think when they made roaches 2 food, they should have buffed the unit by like 30% and increased cost to 125/25. i think that woulda been a nice balance.

    Wouldn't even need a queen to mass roaches in this setup.

    Jutranjo on
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    TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Ketherial wrote: »
    Trus wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Sirson wrote: »
    That would be nuts..

    The one egg would obviously cost doubel what a roach costs now

    nah still too good cause it only costs you one larvae.

    Increase the cost per egg, bam; problem solved

    not sure what you mean. are you saying roaches should cost more than 75/25? so how much for 2 per 1 larvae?

    roaches have always been really cheap. it's easy to get enough mins and gas for them. im guessing the only way they thought they could have zerg stop overmassing them was to make them 2 food cost.

    personally, i think when they made roaches 2 food, they should have buffed the unit by like 30% and increased cost to 125/25. i think that woulda been a nice balance.

    That's way too expensive. Roaches are the only tank unit that Zerg have until Untralisks so they have to be able to mass them.

    Trus on
    qFN53.png
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    KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    3clipse wrote: »
    Klyka wrote: »
    Hey guys! Just reposting this, please check out this game I played! 45minutes long, already spotted quite a few mistakes on my part,but hey, I'm still a learning Silver player!

    Praise and criticism would be VERY appreciated!

    repimg-33-140509.jpg

    Few things I noticed:

    Thank you man!

    Will try to stop sending my poor units to death :(

    Klyka on
    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
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    4rch3nemy4rch3nemy Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I think Zerg just needs another 1 food unit to feel swarmy again. Their units are stupidly overpriced in terms of supply. Hydralisks could cost 1 supply, realistically.

    4rch3nemy on
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    MaratastikMaratastik Just call me Mara, please! Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Welp, I guess I should just hope I get matched up against braindead terran opponents b/c apparently those are the only ones I can beat. I had a bigger army. All he had was marines, and two ghosts. I had zealots, stalkers, sentries and a COLOSSUS. I scout his push. I go out to meet him while popping guardian shields. It doesn't fucking matter. He just stims up and melts everything. Please, someone tell me what I am doing wrong.

    Here's the replay. Please, somebody look at it. http://screplays.com/replays/tmbroe01/5675

    And if one person tells me I should have had high templar, I'm going to scream. You literally cannot have them out with storm researched this fast.

    Also, protip for terrans. Don't worry about getting vikings if you see colossus, just keep making marines b/c apparently you'll be able to roll over any early colossus a protoss can field.

    Maratastik on
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    KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Golf153 wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    I just hate how you have to research two things for roaches to move while burrowed, tunneling claws and burrow.

    but they would pretty much be like dts. and they would be coming out super early.

    fighting them with toss would be a nightmare. either you'd have to have cannon or youd have to go fast robo. even with a fast robo, a mass of roaches would probably still own you considering how fast they regen when burrowed.

    But they still have unburrow to fight, unlike dts, thus Protoss could include Void Rays, plus the range makes them horrible against Stalkers w/blink. Which Protoss should have by the time Zerg gets burrow. Still another way to do it would to just make regen the research upgrade.

    but you could just surround stalkers then pop out. alternatively, you could harass the hell out of the other player. i mean seriously, if a bunch of roaches enters your base and you have no detection, it doesnt matter that they have to unburrow to attack. you're fucked. they move around your base picking off pylons or workers. it's an incredible pain.

    and you absolutely must babysit inside your base while you try to get detection up. i dont know. it seems too useful to me for it to be an unresearched skill.

    Ketherial on
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    SevorakSevorak Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Ketherial wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    I just hate how you have to research two things for roaches to move while burrowed, tunneling claws and burrow.

    but they would pretty much be like dts. and they would be coming out super early.

    fighting them with toss would be a nightmare. either you'd have to have cannon or youd have to go fast robo. even with a fast robo, a mass of roaches would probably still own you considering how fast they regen when burrowed.

    Lair + burrow doesn't come out fast or cheap. An immortal + gateway unit timing push would probably walk all over the small number of units the Zerg would have if they rushed for it.

    Sevorak on
    steam_sig.png 3DS: 0748-2282-4229
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    CasedOutCasedOut Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Ketherial wrote: »
    Golf153 wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    I just hate how you have to research two things for roaches to move while burrowed, tunneling claws and burrow.

    but they would pretty much be like dts. and they would be coming out super early.

    fighting them with toss would be a nightmare. either you'd have to have cannon or youd have to go fast robo. even with a fast robo, a mass of roaches would probably still own you considering how fast they regen when burrowed.

    But they still have unburrow to fight, unlike dts, thus Protoss could include Void Rays, plus the range makes them horrible against Stalkers w/blink. Which Protoss should have by the time Zerg gets burrow. Still another way to do it would to just make regen the research upgrade.

    but you could just surround stalkers then pop out. alternatively, you could harass the hell out of the other player. i mean seriously, if a bunch of roaches enters your base and you have no detection, it doesnt matter that they have to unburrow to attack. you're fucked. they move around your base picking off pylons or workers. it's an incredible pain.

    and you absolutely must babysit inside your base while you try to get detection up. i dont know. it seems too useful to me for it to be an unresearched skill.

    Or you could just do what every protoss does against zerg and wall.....

    CasedOut on
    452773-1.png
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    KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Jars wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    I just hate how you have to research two things for roaches to move while burrowed, tunneling claws and burrow.

    but they would pretty much be like dts. and they would be coming out super early.

    fighting them with toss would be a nightmare. either you'd have to have cannon or youd have to go fast robo. even with a fast robo, a mass of roaches would probably still own you considering how fast they regen when burrowed.

    roaches+lair+roach upgrades is not exactly a fast build

    much, much faster than any other cloaked attacking unit.

    Ketherial on
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    nealcmnealcm Alvarian AlvarianRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    SkyGheNe wrote: »
    Malkor wrote: »
    SkyGheNe wrote: »
    Why did they have queens run slow as shit off of creep? Were they really that OP off of it? Or did blizzard just want to force us to play their game the way they wanted it played?

    Army of queens.

    Decent at taking out air and good at taking out mans.

    Runnin' cross the map like woah.

    You can only build one every minute...it's not like you're going to zergling rush with your queens.

    well not only were people queen rushing with 4 queens but they were also using queens + canceling a hatchery outside people's ramps to Spine Crawler contain people

    a 4 queen rush was stupid effective due to them being able to heal 100 health, having 175 health, a not-bad attack, and they aren't light OR armored so they don't have any weaknesses to early units.

    nealcm on
    19ZUtIw.png
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    RendRend Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Olorin wrote: »
    Welp, I guess I should just hope I get matched up against braindead terran opponents b/c apparently those are the only ones I can beat. I had a bigger army. All he had was marines, and two ghosts. I had zealots, stalkers, sentries and a COLOSSUS. I scout his push. I go out to meet him while popping guardian shields. It doesn't fucking matter. He just stims up and melts everything. Please, someone tell me what I am doing wrong.

    Here's the replay. Please, somebody look at it. http://screplays.com/replays/tmbroe01/5675

    And if one person tells me I should have had high templar, I'm going to scream. You literally cannot have them out with storm researched this fast.

    Also, protip for terrans. Don't worry about getting vikings if you see colossus, just keep making marines b/c apparently you'll be able to roll over any early colossus a protoss can field.

    At work, but did your colossus have range?

    Rend on
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    KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Trus wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    Trus wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Sirson wrote: »
    That would be nuts..

    The one egg would obviously cost doubel what a roach costs now

    nah still too good cause it only costs you one larvae.

    Increase the cost per egg, bam; problem solved

    not sure what you mean. are you saying roaches should cost more than 75/25? so how much for 2 per 1 larvae?

    roaches have always been really cheap. it's easy to get enough mins and gas for them. im guessing the only way they thought they could have zerg stop overmassing them was to make them 2 food cost.

    personally, i think when they made roaches 2 food, they should have buffed the unit by like 30% and increased cost to 125/25. i think that woulda been a nice balance.

    That's way too expensive. Roaches are the only tank unit that Zerg have until Untralisks so they have to be able to mass them.

    the only reason i say that is because roaches own every other zerg land unit (except ultras). so zerg vs zerg become roaches vs roaches forever until one person dies.

    Ketherial on
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    nealcm wrote: »
    SkyGheNe wrote: »
    Malkor wrote: »
    SkyGheNe wrote: »
    Why did they have queens run slow as shit off of creep? Were they really that OP off of it? Or did blizzard just want to force us to play their game the way they wanted it played?

    Army of queens.

    Decent at taking out air and good at taking out mans.

    Runnin' cross the map like woah.

    You can only build one every minute...it's not like you're going to zergling rush with your queens.

    well not only were people queen rushing with 4 queens but they were also using queens + canceling a hatchery outside people's ramps to Spine Crawler contain people

    a 4 queen rush was stupid effective due to them being able to heal 100 health, having 175 health, a not-bad attack, and they aren't light OR armored so they don't have any weaknesses to early units.
    And there would never be any reason to stop building queens. They're an incredibly powerful unit for the cost (150 mins/no gas, 2 supply). If they weren't limited to being a defense unit, they'd have to increase the cost on them, which would then fuck you over for getting them out for their intended role of hatchery tending and base defense.

    forty on
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    MaratastikMaratastik Just call me Mara, please! Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Rend wrote: »
    Olorin wrote: »
    Welp, I guess I should just hope I get matched up against braindead terran opponents b/c apparently those are the only ones I can beat. I had a bigger army. All he had was marines, and two ghosts. I had zealots, stalkers, sentries and a COLOSSUS. I scout his push. I go out to meet him while popping guardian shields. It doesn't fucking matter. He just stims up and melts everything. Please, someone tell me what I am doing wrong.

    Here's the replay. Please, somebody look at it. http://screplays.com/replays/tmbroe01/5675

    And if one person tells me I should have had high templar, I'm going to scream. You literally cannot have them out with storm researched this fast.

    Also, protip for terrans. Don't worry about getting vikings if you see colossus, just keep making marines b/c apparently you'll be able to roll over any early colossus a protoss can field.

    At work, but did your colossus have range?

    For the first push, no b/c he was pushing into my natural before it was finished researching. And it wouldn't have mattered b/c the colossus was the last thing left standing. He didn't even bother focusing the colossus. It got plenty of shots off. Subsequent engagements, yes it had range but I was already fighting a losing battle at that point.

    I keep rewatching the replay and am literally in disbelief that I lose the first engagement in the replay.

    Maratastik on
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    TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Ketherial wrote: »
    Trus wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    Trus wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Sirson wrote: »
    That would be nuts..

    The one egg would obviously cost doubel what a roach costs now

    nah still too good cause it only costs you one larvae.

    Increase the cost per egg, bam; problem solved

    not sure what you mean. are you saying roaches should cost more than 75/25? so how much for 2 per 1 larvae?

    roaches have always been really cheap. it's easy to get enough mins and gas for them. im guessing the only way they thought they could have zerg stop overmassing them was to make them 2 food cost.

    personally, i think when they made roaches 2 food, they should have buffed the unit by like 30% and increased cost to 125/25. i think that woulda been a nice balance.

    That's way too expensive. Roaches are the only tank unit that Zerg have until Untralisks so they have to be able to mass them.

    the only reason i say that is because roaches own every other zerg land unit (except ultras). so zerg vs zerg become roaches vs roaches forever until one person dies.

    Roach/Hydra beats straight up roaches.
    Ketherial wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    I just hate how you have to research two things for roaches to move while burrowed, tunneling claws and burrow.

    but they would pretty much be like dts. and they would be coming out super early.

    fighting them with toss would be a nightmare. either you'd have to have cannon or youd have to go fast robo. even with a fast robo, a mass of roaches would probably still own you considering how fast they regen when burrowed.

    roaches+lair+roach upgrades is not exactly a fast build

    much, much faster than any other cloaked attacking unit.

    Except that roaches can't attack while burrowed

    Trus on
    qFN53.png
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    BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    forty wrote: »
    nealcm wrote: »
    SkyGheNe wrote: »
    Malkor wrote: »
    SkyGheNe wrote: »
    Why did they have queens run slow as shit off of creep? Were they really that OP off of it? Or did blizzard just want to force us to play their game the way they wanted it played?

    Army of queens.

    Decent at taking out air and good at taking out mans.

    Runnin' cross the map like woah.

    You can only build one every minute...it's not like you're going to zergling rush with your queens.

    well not only were people queen rushing with 4 queens but they were also using queens + canceling a hatchery outside people's ramps to Spine Crawler contain people

    a 4 queen rush was stupid effective due to them being able to heal 100 health, having 175 health, a not-bad attack, and they aren't light OR armored so they don't have any weaknesses to early units.
    And there would never be any reason to stop building queens. They're an incredibly powerful unit for the cost (150 mins/no gas, 2 supply). If they weren't limited to being a defense unit, they'd have to increase the cost on them, which would then fuck you over for getting them out for their intended role of hatchery tending and base defense.

    I've thought about building a couple queens to use in my pushes, considering I don't engage armies anymore off creep, so I might as well bring them along, right?

    Buddies on
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    NumiNumi Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Rend wrote: »
    Olorin wrote: »
    Welp, I guess I should just hope I get matched up against braindead terran opponents b/c apparently those are the only ones I can beat. I had a bigger army. All he had was marines, and two ghosts. I had zealots, stalkers, sentries and a COLOSSUS. I scout his push. I go out to meet him while popping guardian shields. It doesn't fucking matter. He just stims up and melts everything. Please, someone tell me what I am doing wrong.

    Here's the replay. Please, somebody look at it. http://screplays.com/replays/tmbroe01/5675

    And if one person tells me I should have had high templar, I'm going to scream. You literally cannot have them out with storm researched this fast.

    Also, protip for terrans. Don't worry about getting vikings if you see colossus, just keep making marines b/c apparently you'll be able to roll over any early colossus a protoss can field.

    At work, but did your colossus have range?

    The range was just about to finish when the first engagement happened which he lost, quite badly, but the colossus still burned a fair number of marines. The big problem with the colossus play was that there never more than one on the map at any time, the robo just sat around doing nothing for large stretches and then it just replaced that one colossus as it got stomped.

    Numi on
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    RendRend Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Olorin wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    Olorin wrote: »
    Welp, I guess I should just hope I get matched up against braindead terran opponents b/c apparently those are the only ones I can beat. I had a bigger army. All he had was marines, and two ghosts. I had zealots, stalkers, sentries and a COLOSSUS. I scout his push. I go out to meet him while popping guardian shields. It doesn't fucking matter. He just stims up and melts everything. Please, someone tell me what I am doing wrong.

    Here's the replay. Please, somebody look at it. http://screplays.com/replays/tmbroe01/5675

    And if one person tells me I should have had high templar, I'm going to scream. You literally cannot have them out with storm researched this fast.

    Also, protip for terrans. Don't worry about getting vikings if you see colossus, just keep making marines b/c apparently you'll be able to roll over any early colossus a protoss can field.

    At work, but did your colossus have range?

    For the first push, no b/c he was pushing into my natural before it was finished researching. And it wouldn't have mattered b/c the colossus was the last thing left standing. He didn't even bother focusing the colossus. It got plenty of shots off. Subsequent engagements, yes it had range but I was already fighting a losing battle at that point.

    I keep rewatching the replay and am literally in disbelief that I lose the first engagement in the replay.

    And again, I haven't viewed your replay because I am at work and I'm sorry for that, but did you use force field at all? One thing that is very effective against marines in particular is splitting their number. Stim costs 25% of their health, so every second of it is vital. If you cut his force in half with marines, the back rows aren't going to be able to hit anything because of their relatively short range, they'll waste time going around, while hopefully you can destroy the first half.

    Otherwise, a big part of beating stim marines is avoiding the stim. They're faster, since they're stimmed, but if you can force field in front of him and run away, he'll have wasted literally 25% of his HP. If he stims again there's no way he'll be able to make a dent, the marines would have 25 health left, 35 with the upgrade.

    Rend on
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    EvangirEvangir Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Olorin wrote: »
    Welp, I guess I should just hope I get matched up against braindead terran opponents b/c apparently those are the only ones I can beat. I had a bigger army. All he had was marines, and two ghosts. I had zealots, stalkers, sentries and a COLOSSUS. I scout his push. I go out to meet him while popping guardian shields. It doesn't fucking matter. He just stims up and melts everything. Please, someone tell me what I am doing wrong.

    Here's the replay. Please, somebody look at it. http://screplays.com/replays/tmbroe01/5675

    And if one person tells me I should have had high templar, I'm going to scream. You literally cannot have them out with storm researched this fast.

    Also, protip for terrans. Don't worry about getting vikings if you see colossus, just keep making marines b/c apparently you'll be able to roll over any early colossus a protoss can field.

    Just watched it. You made some poor decisions that resulted in your loss.

    You engaged his army multiple times with a miniscule force including only a single Colossus (you need at least 2) through a choke point. Your opponent had a great concave while your army was clumped into a ball with only part of it firing. The engagement at 13:30 in particular (which absolutely lost you the game), and again a little later on your ramp after your expo was dead.

    I would also recommend spreading out your army if you see Ghosts. Make them use at least 2 EMPs to hit everything.

    You also probably should have held your expansion back a bit, since you could see he was doing somewhat of an all-in one-base build. Get to 2 Colossi and melt his whole army. Your counterattack afterwards would protect your expo and deny his.

    Basically, don't push into a MMG ball with only one colossus. Even just attacking with 2 at once would probably have melted the whole ball. And really be more careful of where you choose to engage. Attacking through a choke point into an army with room to make a concave is suicidal. Particulary against EMP.

    Edit: Watched the first attack again. There was no reason for you to head out to meet him. You had a second Colossus at 50% when you attacked. You should have held back and waited for him to actually move in. By that point you would probably have had another Colossi and another round of Warp Gate units.

    Evangir on
    PSN/XBL/STEAM: Evangir - Starcraft 2: Bulwark.955 - Origin: Bulwark955 - Diablo 3: Bulwark#1478
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    KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Sevorak wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    I just hate how you have to research two things for roaches to move while burrowed, tunneling claws and burrow.

    but they would pretty much be like dts. and they would be coming out super early.

    fighting them with toss would be a nightmare. either you'd have to have cannon or youd have to go fast robo. even with a fast robo, a mass of roaches would probably still own you considering how fast they regen when burrowed.

    Lair + burrow doesn't come out fast or cheap. An immortal + gateway unit timing push would probably walk all over the small number of units the Zerg would have if they rushed for it.

    hmmm, i guess it's just hard to say without being able to actually do it.

    the way i see it, it's only going to be 350 gas (speed, lair, roach, burrow) and 25 per roach for a cloaked moving unit.

    10 roaches with burrowed move: 600 gas

    for terran, we're looking at what? 150 fac, 150 starport 200 for cloak and 100 per banshee
    1 banshee with cloak: 600 gas

    for toss, we've got 150 citadel, 250 shrine and 100 per dt
    2 dts: 600 gas

    seems kind of fast and powerful to me.

    Ketherial on
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    MaratastikMaratastik Just call me Mara, please! Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Numi wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    Olorin wrote: »
    Welp, I guess I should just hope I get matched up against braindead terran opponents b/c apparently those are the only ones I can beat. I had a bigger army. All he had was marines, and two ghosts. I had zealots, stalkers, sentries and a COLOSSUS. I scout his push. I go out to meet him while popping guardian shields. It doesn't fucking matter. He just stims up and melts everything. Please, someone tell me what I am doing wrong.

    Here's the replay. Please, somebody look at it. http://screplays.com/replays/tmbroe01/5675

    And if one person tells me I should have had high templar, I'm going to scream. You literally cannot have them out with storm researched this fast.

    Also, protip for terrans. Don't worry about getting vikings if you see colossus, just keep making marines b/c apparently you'll be able to roll over any early colossus a protoss can field.

    At work, but did your colossus have range?

    The range was just about to finish when the first engagement happened which he lost, quite badly, but the colossus still burned a fair number of marines. The big problem with the colossus play was that there never more than one on the map at any time, the robo just sat around doing nothing for large stretches and then it just replaced that one colossus as it got stomped.

    The reason it wasn't being used was b/c I used up all my money warping in units to defend after I lost the first push. It's not like I had massive amounts of money piled up and wasn't using it. And his push came shortly after I had the first one out. I would not have had a second one out in time for it.

    Maratastik on
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    EzekielEzekiel Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Olorin wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    Olorin wrote: »
    Welp, I guess I should just hope I get matched up against braindead terran opponents b/c apparently those are the only ones I can beat. I had a bigger army. All he had was marines, and two ghosts. I had zealots, stalkers, sentries and a COLOSSUS. I scout his push. I go out to meet him while popping guardian shields. It doesn't fucking matter. He just stims up and melts everything. Please, someone tell me what I am doing wrong.

    Here's the replay. Please, somebody look at it. http://screplays.com/replays/tmbroe01/5675

    And if one person tells me I should have had high templar, I'm going to scream. You literally cannot have them out with storm researched this fast.

    Also, protip for terrans. Don't worry about getting vikings if you see colossus, just keep making marines b/c apparently you'll be able to roll over any early colossus a protoss can field.

    At work, but did your colossus have range?

    For the first push, no b/c he was pushing into my natural before it was finished researching. And it wouldn't have mattered b/c the colossus was the last thing left standing. He didn't even bother focusing the colossus. It got plenty of shots off. Subsequent engagements, yes it had range but I was already fighting a losing battle at that point.

    I keep rewatching the replay and am literally in disbelief that I lose the first engagement in the replay.

    Forcefield instead of shield? Yeaaahh....you had energy for it every time. Didn't get any use.

    Ezekiel on
    428475-1.png
    I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
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