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[Starcraft 2] Multiplayer discussion. Nerf Terran, Zerg, and Protoss please.

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    tofutofu Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    As pointed out earlier though, Roaches can't attack while burrowed.

    tofu on
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    QuetzatcoatlQuetzatcoatl Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    In my experience Colossus+Stalkers have wrecked marine + ghosts. Even if I get a good emp's down the colossus just does massive damage to marine balls if you don't have marauders.

    Quetzatcoatl on
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    KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Phew, I just played my fourth Terran in a row (seriously???) and just as I was attacking his base,he dropped Marauders and Siege Tanks in mine. Luckily I had an expansion already so I took out his base and then his army. He gg'd right after.

    Klyka on
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    KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Trus wrote: »
    Roach/Hydra beats straight up roaches.

    i dont think this is actually true. we're talking (sort of) cost to cost right? cause i think 1 roach 1 hydra will lose to 2 roaches and will definitely lose to 3.
    Ketherial wrote: »
    much, much faster than any other cloaked attacking unit.

    Except that roaches can't attack while burrowed

    true. i wonder if that matters that much though. they could literally sit in your base and wait for you to make a push, then eat your nexus. that's what i do sometimes and it works great.

    Ketherial on
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    FuriousJodoFuriousJodo Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Just did a lesson/session with RyanRushia - was actually pretty neat, helpful.

    http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=141970

    FuriousJodo on
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    nowayman xynowayman xy Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Anyone have a link to a decent stream? I don't feel like working.

    nowayman xy on
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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Just did a lesson/session with RyanRushia - was actually pretty neat, helpful.

    http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=141970

    Do you think a lower skill level player could get something out of an hour lesson, or do you think it's really tailored to people Platinum and above?

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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    KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Just did a lesson/session with RyanRushia - was actually pretty neat, helpful.

    http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=141970

    How did the "lesson" go exactly?

    Klyka on
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    HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Ketherial wrote: »
    Trus wrote: »
    Roach/Hydra beats straight up roaches.

    i dont think this is actually true. we're talking (sort of) cost to cost right? cause i think 1 roach 1 hydra will lose to 2 roaches and will definitely lose to 3.

    Depends on a few extraneous and contextual factors, like player skill, terrain, and hydra/roach ratio.

    A good player can do astronomically more with a roach/hydra mix than just roaches. You can micro/kite with the hydras and tank/kite with the roaches. An opponent often seizes up trying to decide which to hit and will end up losing a bunch of roaches because of it.

    Heartlash on
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    FuriousJodoFuriousJodo Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Basically went through a match-up I hate (PvP) and how to defend against 4-gate and such. We only did an hour - I actually recorded it and will probably be uploading it so he has kind of an example of how his lessons go. It would obviously be different for each person, since he kind of goes based on what you know and such.

    @GnomeTank - I think a lower person would definitely benefit, maybe even moreso than a Platinum+ player. Ryan is a really good guy - and the first lesson/hour is free so it's worth giving him a chance if you really want to learn some.

    He was also on Blizzard's top 200 list if that means anything.

    FuriousJodo on
    FuriousJodo on Twitch/PSN/XBL/Whatever else
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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Yah, that's what I'm thinking. It's an hour and it's free, and it can't hurt to have a real high level player critique you for an hour.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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    TeeSamTeeSam Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Hey all--so for some reason I don't entirely understand myself, I'm obsessed with getting the Panda Marine portrait. The last thing I need to do apparently is "Play enough qualifying matches to get placed in a Quickmatch league."

    Would this be something that happens after I'm done with the "Practice League"?

    Also, when I'm out of the practice league, will I be able to decline games faster than "Normal" speed? I have ZERO interest in playing/learning to play at a faster speed than that. On the other hand, I hate the "novice"/"air rush only" maps, so I'd like to get out of the practice league.

    TeeSam on
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Yes, that happens when you do Placement Matches.

    You should get out of the Practice League ASAP. The game is played at Faster in ranked games, and even if you hate it, you should get used to playing at it if you plan on doing ranked matches at all ever.

    Plus, there's no rush defense in Ranked Games.

    2-3 games in Practice League is good to get the hang of the tech trees and the game flow, and then you should just jump in and do placement. Worse case scenario, you do horribly and place in Bronze, and as you get better you work your way up.

    3cl1ps3 on
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    TeeSam wrote: »
    Hey all--so for some reason I don't entirely understand myself, I'm obsessed with getting the Panda Marine portrait. The last thing I need to do apparently is "Play enough qualifying matches to get placed in a Quickmatch league."

    Would this be something that happens after I'm done with the "Practice League"?
    Yes. You only have to play five qualifying matches, so it won't take long at all. Hell, you could even just quit all of them or have your workers kill your starting building if you really don't care.
    Also, when I'm out of the practice league, will I be able to decline games faster than "Normal" speed? I have ZERO interest in playing/learning to play at a faster speed than that. On the other hand, I hate the "novice"/"air rush only" maps, so I'd like to get out of the practice league.
    League games are always at the fastest speed, unfortunately. The only way to play at a lower speed is through custom games, and unless you're playing with people you know it's going to be tough to find people to play against with a normal speed custom setup.

    forty on
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    NumiNumi Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Olorin wrote: »
    Numi wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    Olorin wrote: »
    Welp, I guess I should just hope I get matched up against braindead terran opponents b/c apparently those are the only ones I can beat. I had a bigger army. All he had was marines, and two ghosts. I had zealots, stalkers, sentries and a COLOSSUS. I scout his push. I go out to meet him while popping guardian shields. It doesn't fucking matter. He just stims up and melts everything. Please, someone tell me what I am doing wrong.

    Here's the replay. Please, somebody look at it. http://screplays.com/replays/tmbroe01/5675

    And if one person tells me I should have had high templar, I'm going to scream. You literally cannot have them out with storm researched this fast.

    Also, protip for terrans. Don't worry about getting vikings if you see colossus, just keep making marines b/c apparently you'll be able to roll over any early colossus a protoss can field.

    At work, but did your colossus have range?

    The range was just about to finish when the first engagement happened which he lost, quite badly, but the colossus still burned a fair number of marines. The big problem with the colossus play was that there never more than one on the map at any time, the robo just sat around doing nothing for large stretches and then it just replaced that one colossus as it got stomped.

    The reason it wasn't being used was b/c I used up all my money warping in units to defend after I lost the first push. It's not like I had massive amounts of money piled up and wasn't using it. And his push came shortly after I had the first one out. I would not have had a second one out in time for it.

    Except that is part of the problem, there were times when you would get close to 300 minerals and then bam you would warp in two stalkers and suddenly the opportunity to start a colossus was delayed even further.

    Had that robo constantly been making a colossi and what was left over been put into gateway units instead of the other way around it wouldn't have been as bad of a mauling, especially if it had been combined with stalling for time until you had more colossi on the field.

    Numi on
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    KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Heartlash wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    Trus wrote: »
    Roach/Hydra beats straight up roaches.

    i dont think this is actually true. we're talking (sort of) cost to cost right? cause i think 1 roach 1 hydra will lose to 2 roaches and will definitely lose to 3.

    Depends on a few extraneous and contextual factors, like player skill, terrain, and hydra/roach ratio.

    A good player can do astronomically more with a roach/hydra mix than just roaches. You can micro/kite with the hydras and tank/kite with the roaches. An opponent often seizes up trying to decide which to hit and will end up losing a bunch of roaches because of it.

    while what you have said above is true, it's also true that roaches are t1.5 and you can mass them much more easily than roach hydra.

    honestly, if you try to go roach hydra and i just mass roaches, i will roll over you regardless of your micro.

    you might hold a ramp for a bit. but then again, you might not.

    Ketherial on
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Roaches are faster (with upgrades) than Hydras and have more HP and are cheaper.

    However, Hydras do much better DPS than Roaches. The problem is that a Hydra is twice as much gas and 25 more minerals, so the other person can field more units than you can if they go straight Roaches, at which point their numbers can overwhelm you.

    3cl1ps3 on
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    PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    3clipse wrote: »
    Roaches are faster (with upgrades) than Hydras and have more HP and are cheaper.

    However, Hydras do much better DPS than Roaches. The problem is that a Hydra is twice as much gas and 25 more minerals, so the other person can field more units than you can if they go straight Roaches, at which point their numbers can overwhelm you.

    Upgraded Hydralisks have 6 range.

    Roaches have 3.

    In larger fights, the roaches spend so much time trying to get into firing position that the Hydralisks start winning. Remember the basic StarCraft rule: More units = range matters more.

    Roach / Hydra works particularly well because ignoring the roaches is dangerous (they still shoot) and ignoring the Hydras is even worse (they shoot even more) but getting to the Hydras requires you to deal with the Roaches.

    Pure roaches are also vulnerable as fuck to Hydralisks + Fungal Growth.

    PotatoNinja on
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    wileycatwileycat Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I'm just about to finish the campaign and really dive into multiplayer. I did my placement matches and ended up in bronze league. Obviously I need to work on my strategy. I love reading the posts here but they all have a lot of jargon that I have yet to learn. Where can I go for a good beginner's guide to Starcraft multi?

    wileycat on
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    TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    wileycat wrote: »
    I'm just about to finish the campaign and really dive into multiplayer. I did my placement matches and ended up in bronze league. Obviously I need to work on my strategy. I love reading the posts here but they all have a lot of jargon that I have yet to learn. Where can I go for a good beginner's guide to Starcraft multi?

    Just watch replay casts. Day9 is the most famous, and probably the most tactically well-versed. Husky is good as well.

    TL DR on
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    nowayman xynowayman xy Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    wileycat wrote: »
    I'm just about to finish the campaign and really dive into multiplayer. I did my placement matches and ended up in bronze league. Obviously I need to work on my strategy. I love reading the posts here but they all have a lot of jargon that I have yet to learn. Where can I go for a good beginner's guide to Starcraft multi?

    The challenges are actually pretty useful for learning aspects that you'll need to understand for multiplayer.

    They have a rush defense, teach you to work on your beginning build in order to maximize your economy and you learn basic army counters. It's really good stuff. Make sure to read the tips on the loading screen.

    nowayman xy on
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    MovitzMovitz Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Joe K wrote: »
    Talith wrote: »
    Screw those imbalanced units we can't deal with but love to be vocal about.

    I'm trying to make peace with it. They'll change the OP units, till then, just gotta play the cards as they're dealt.

    which may make me switch to Terran..... although, I'm having lots of success against Terran with the 2-gate rush. if you can break their wall, its GG.

    Upload some replays of you losing to Void Rays please.

    And then better players than I can tell you what you're doing wrong. [edit: grammar]

    Wait wait wait, when did we allow for Protoss players to whine about Terran?

    If you aren't Zerg and in diamond, there's really no need to jump on the fuckshitterranmech-bandwagon.

    [Edit] This is of course nothing personal or aimed at you. I'm just sort of feeling that it's getting a bit too popular to bitch on terran balance nowadays. I belive there is an issue there (in TvZ), I just don't think it effects the vast majority of the players.

    Movitz on
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    nowayman xynowayman xy Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Movitz wrote: »
    Joe K wrote: »
    Talith wrote: »
    Screw those imbalanced units we can't deal with but love to be vocal about.

    I'm trying to make peace with it. They'll change the OP units, till then, just gotta play the cards as they're dealt.

    which may make me switch to Terran..... although, I'm having lots of success against Terran with the 2-gate rush. if you can break their wall, its GG.

    Upload some replays of you losing to Void Rays please.

    And then better players than I can tell you what you're doing wrong. [edit: grammar]

    Wait wait wait, when did we allow for Protoss players to whine about Terran?

    If you aren't Zerg and in diamond, there's really no need to jump on the fuckshitterranmech-train.

    Haha, that's so funny. I saw the name Joe K and that he was complaining about something and just assumed he was talking about VRs again.

    Sorry, Joe.

    nowayman xy on
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    CasedOutCasedOut Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Movitz wrote: »
    Joe K wrote: »
    Talith wrote: »
    Screw those imbalanced units we can't deal with but love to be vocal about.

    I'm trying to make peace with it. They'll change the OP units, till then, just gotta play the cards as they're dealt.

    which may make me switch to Terran..... although, I'm having lots of success against Terran with the 2-gate rush. if you can break their wall, its GG.

    Upload some replays of you losing to Void Rays please.

    And then better players than I can tell you what you're doing wrong. [edit: grammar]

    Wait wait wait, when did we allow for Protoss players to whine about Terran?

    If you aren't Zerg and in diamond, there's really no need to jump on the fuckshitterranmech-bandwagon.

    [Edit] This is of course nothing personal or aimed at you. I'm just sort of feeling that it's getting a bit too popular to bitch on terran balance nowadays. I belive there is an issue there (in TvZ), I just don't think it effects the vast majority of the players.

    Actually most protoss these days are bitching about marauders, which is understandable because marauders rape protoss.

    CasedOut on
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    iowaiowa Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    yeah i'm not sure when it became alright for protoss to complain about stuff lets bring this thread back down to earth plz it appears we've taken residence in clown town

    iowa on
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    CasedOutCasedOut Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    just a question, how does protoss effectively deal with mass marauders?

    CasedOut on
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    DoomninjaDoomninja Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Gretorp's steam as well, I have a bigger nerd crush on him than I do day 9. The Goat show!

    http://www.teamliquid.net/video/userstream.php?user=Gretorp

    Doomninja on
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    MovitzMovitz Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Movitz wrote: »
    Joe K wrote: »
    Talith wrote: »
    Screw those imbalanced units we can't deal with but love to be vocal about.

    I'm trying to make peace with it. They'll change the OP units, till then, just gotta play the cards as they're dealt.

    which may make me switch to Terran..... although, I'm having lots of success against Terran with the 2-gate rush. if you can break their wall, its GG.

    Upload some replays of you losing to Void Rays please.

    And then better players than I can tell you what you're doing wrong. [edit: grammar]

    Wait wait wait, when did we allow for Protoss players to whine about Terran?

    If you aren't Zerg and in diamond, there's really no need to jump on the fuckshitterranmech-bandwagon.

    [Edit] This is of course nothing personal or aimed at you. I'm just sort of feeling that it's getting a bit too popular to bitch on terran balance nowadays. I belive there is an issue there (in TvZ), I just don't think it effects the vast majority of the players.

    Actually most protoss these days are bitching about marauders, which is understandable because marauders rape protoss.

    Then build something else? It's not like you have to spread creep around half the map and take 6 expansions and still maybe, if you are lucky, be able to barely push those Thors back with T3 units.

    /rant

    Movitz on
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    iowaiowa Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    smart sentry use and a mixed army

    iowa on
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    StokedUpStokedUp Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Movitz wrote: »
    Joe K wrote: »
    Talith wrote: »
    Screw those imbalanced units we can't deal with but love to be vocal about.

    I'm trying to make peace with it. They'll change the OP units, till then, just gotta play the cards as they're dealt.

    which may make me switch to Terran..... although, I'm having lots of success against Terran with the 2-gate rush. if you can break their wall, its GG.

    Upload some replays of you losing to Void Rays please.

    And then better players than I can tell you what you're doing wrong. [edit: grammar]

    Wait wait wait, when did we allow for Protoss players to whine about Terran?

    If you aren't Zerg and in diamond, there's really no need to jump on the fuckshitterranmech-bandwagon.

    [Edit] This is of course nothing personal or aimed at you. I'm just sort of feeling that it's getting a bit too popular to bitch on terran balance nowadays. I belive there is an issue there (in TvZ), I just don't think it effects the vast majority of the players.

    Actually most protoss these days are bitching about marauders, which is understandable because marauders rape protoss.

    I bitch about marauders. Theyr fuckin amazing units. Protoss should have marauders.

    StokedUp on
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    iowa wrote: »
    yeah i'm not sure when it became alright for protoss to complain about stuff lets bring this thread back down to earth plz it appears we've taken residence in clown town

    You shut your dirty mouth, terran

    <3

    3cl1ps3 on
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    iowaiowa Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I play random and when I don't I play zerg

    except in 2v2s because why would anyone play a 2v2 with the race that doesnt have reapers

    iowa on
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    iowaiowa Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    but let's talk about how hard zerg is to play

    the answer is hard

    iowa on
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    iowa wrote: »
    but let's talk about how hard zerg is to play

    the answer is hard

    Like Ron Jeremy after a bottle of Viagra.

    3cl1ps3 on
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    iowaiowa Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    i will say a roach all in is really strong. I haven't used it often outside of ZvZ though. but that's not a fun way to play and you win but don't learn much

    iowa on
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    Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    CasedOut wrote: »
    just a question, how does protoss effectively deal with mass marauders?

    immortals, chargelots, and effective use of sentries. and upgrades. i'll get level 1/1/1 and forget air or further ugrading...

    Joe K on
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    tofutofu Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I am a nub but roaches supplemented with zerglings and mutalisks seem to work pretty well.

    tofu on
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    SeanronSeanron GlasgowRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Finally won an actual ranked game :P

    I won mainly cause my Terran foe never...scouted...at...ALL!

    But enjoyable none the less, I'm still sloppy as hell with my minerals, but I reacted quite well to my opponents invisible banshee spam! And they were favoured and everything :D

    http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/59920-1v1-terran-zerg-delta-quadrant

    Seanron on
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Joe K wrote: »
    CasedOut wrote: »
    just a question, how does protoss effectively deal with mass marauders?

    immortals, chargelots, and effective use of sentries. and upgrades. i'll get level 1/1/1 and forget air or further ugrading...

    BAD

    Use those minerals and gas to buy a Twilight Council and get Charge and/or Blink sooner. And upgrade your Weapons to level 3, then Shields to 3 (if you went Air, get Air Weapons to 3 before shields). If you still have tons of free cash to burn while continuously pumping units and the game's gonna go on for awhile, then upgrade ground and air armor.

    Also Void Rays help with Marauders.

    3cl1ps3 on
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Every time I try to play zerg I just crumble trying to manage all the fucking nitnoid things you need to worry about (larva counts, queen larva spawn, creep tumors, overlords). I run into far more issues with supply as zerg than when I play the other two since I am worrying about so many annoying little things.

    forty on
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