Eh, someone from this thread actually farted around with Rock Revolution, so it's worth a shot.
As far as the Corporalgregg thing... the guy's biggest sin was flaunting material before the game's release (not to mention possible piracy). This won't necessarily lead to a crackdown in youtube videos of stuff posted after it's released.
Then again tackling the problem by simply turning off the sound is a new one to me.
Eh, someone from this thread actually farted around with Rock Revolution, so it's worth a shot.
As far as the Corporalgregg thing... the guy's biggest sin was flaunting material before the game's release (not to mention possible piracy). This won't necessarily lead to a crackdown in youtube videos of stuff posted after it's released.
Then again tackling the problem by simply turning off the sound is a new one to me.
It's the audio that is causing the problems for so many videos. Ones that go unmolested are those with ambient audio and the clackclackclackclack of drums or guitars in the background. Shutting off the audio (or even audio replacement) for a direct feed video rip would be enough to stop most labels (WMG would probably still act like geese). But the bitching about not hearing the song itself would increase.
And as far as future crackdowns are concerned, I refer to Pro guitar specifically because the labels and rights holders have a hard on for punishing tab sites. A Pro guitar video is basically a moving tab with audio. I figure somebody will get a bug up their ass about it eventually.
I wouldn't be surprised that many of those are simply a kind of automatic response to the existence of the videos. They probably don't even check them anymore, if they ever did.
It's all pretty dodgy anyway. I'm not sure which is more lame; the argument about why the videos should be allowed or that they're actually important to the overall success of the game or content.
Basically the deal with CorporalGregg was that he made a 2nd YouTube account that he owned to host videos of pirated, unreleased DLC for Rock Band 3. So in the end, it wasn't so much that he was hosting DLC videos or posting videos of RB3, it was that he was pirating shit and showing it off.
Yeah, I read that. I've no sympathy for him. People are still trying to rationalise his actions using the same tired twin arguments of 'It doesn't really hurt anybody!' and 'It sells more product!' He fucked up and should be shut down.
Yeah, I read that. I've no sympathy for him. People are still trying to rationalise his actions using the same tired twin arguments of 'It doesn't really hurt anybody!' and 'It sells more product!' He fucked up and should be shut down.
Try arguing with the fanbase that complains when the album art of some DLC is "incorrect".
Yeah, I read that. I've no sympathy for him. People are still trying to rationalise his actions using the same tired twin arguments of 'It doesn't really hurt anybody!' and 'It sells more product!' He fucked up and should be shut down.
Try arguing with the fanbase that complains when the album art of some DLC is "incorrect".
At least leaving them up with no or replaced sound is remaining true to the 'for the charts' argument. But the only time a chart issue might make me not want to buy a song I'd otherwise get is EJN-style rapid strumming or shitty trills.
Usually, however, I'll probably still want to get the song if I like the song enough. But a shitty chart or portion will absolutely kill a song I'm 'meh' about. So I watch the videos mainly for the music. As in: Do I like it?
It's why I try to find in-game examples of RBN songs over 'official' videos. To give people the ability to hear the song as they would in the game they're buying it for. Edits and mixing and all. Even those full-band previews are better than nothing since you get a flavour for both the chart and the song.
But the numbers prove that any added sales YouTube videos provide is meaningless next to the masses who still only cherry pick from packs to get the one song they liked from a previous GH game...
Does anyone think that something like this could ever replace sheet music. I played trumbone for 6 years and even so i always thought that if i had like a monitor in front of me with scrolling notes in front of me it would be easier to play then reading plain sheet music and going off the conductor.
But something like this can potentially create a whole new bunch of people who have technically learned how to play a specific song, but not how to play the instrument itself. Sheet music isn't good for much besides instruction on which notes to play. People still need some kind of instruction to make sense of it.
Pro Mode is nothing more than streaming numbers on a screen. It doesn't care about anything other than whether or not you do what it says.
To put it into perspective: How many Rock Band players are good enough to play with Performance Mode turned on? The ability to take the skills being 'taught' and make them independent of gameplay is a leap too many people are assuming will happen. Music instruction without at least some kind of music theory is doomed to failure.
But something like this can potentially create a whole new bunch of people who have technically learned how to play a specific song, but not how to play the instrument itself. Sheet music isn't good for much besides instruction on which notes to play. People still need some kind of instruction to make sense of it.
Pro Mode is nothing more than streaming numbers on a screen. It doesn't care about anything other than whether or not you do what it says.
To put it into perspective: How many Rock Band players are good enough to play with Performance Mode turned on? The ability to take the skills being 'taught' and make them independent of gameplay is a leap too many people are assuming will happen. Music instruction without at least some kind of music theory is doomed to failure.
There's only one drum song I can actually play in Performance Mode. I think I'm Paranoid. I never tried it with any other song.
And well, Vocal performance mode never was that tough for me. I've been able to get some 100% (and a couple of Gold Stars...Everlong and Sex On Fire) without having that much trouble.
And well, Vocal performance mode never was that tough for me. I've been able to get some 100% (and a couple of Gold Stars...Everlong and Sex On Fire) without having that much trouble.
That's because you already know how to play the vocal instrument. You're able to take what you know about the song and translate it into what you need to do on the "instrument".
I do think if you've played plastic drums long enough you should be able to at least whip a basic rock beat easily.
Agreed. Especially with the cymbal add-on, if you can play expert drums in rock band and understand rhythm (read: youre not some weird prodigy that can only play because your recognition of color-patterns is uncanny) there's zero reason you shouldn't be able to sit down on a real basic kit and pump up the jams.
Music instruction without at least some kind of music theory is doomed to failure.
Oh god yes, it's one thing to know what notes to play, but why to play them there is just as, if not more, important.
And theory can lead to awesome discussions. At a meet and greet with Dream Theater I spent the better part of a half-hour picking John Pettruci's brain about alternate voice leadings to try, in order to help me get out of my funk of always going to Phrygian (dominant, not Greek) and Lydian when improvising leads.
In that same chat session Mike Portnoy made 2 jaw-dropping revelations about his drumkit:
1.) He doesn't pay for the majority of his equipment.
and
2.) He doesn't assemble it himself.
BlackDragon480 on
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
Most famous band drummers just show up and play from what I've seen. I remember one remarking that "I don't care how hard I beat the drums, I have drum techs that fix my set for me between songs"
Actually I think I tried Freestyle Drum mode a few times for a couple of easy pop songs. And Muse's Starlight.
Anyway, yes I do get what you mean. RB is nice and all but it can't replace a teacher. Hell, whenever my drummer friend sees how I play Message in a Bottle he's appalled at my "technique".
I figure the same thing will happen with Pro Guitar. BUT, if it gives you a solid foundation or at least inspires you to look for people to teach you, then I believe Rock Band Pro has done its job.
Ugh, I must've edit this post at least 8 times. Anyway, this is probably why I'm picking up the button guitar instead of going full out with the Squier. If I get that drive, sure I can get some lessons and get a cheap Gibson. If I don't, it's "only" 150$. Oh, disposable income I love you.
Actually I think I tried Freestyle Drum mode a few times for a couple of easy pop songs. And Muse's Starlight.
Anyway, yes I do get what you mean. RB is nice and all but it can't replace a teacher. Hell, whenever my drummer friend sees how I play Message in a Bottle he's appalled at my "technique".
I figure the same thing will happen with Pro Guitar. BUT, if it gives you a solid foundation or at least inspires you to look for people to teach you, then I believe Rock Band Pro has done its job.
I agree with this. Ive never played the guitar but with a hectic work schedule and such I've never had the time or money to pay for lessons I can do consistently. I'm not about to make the argument that they are any kind of replacement for a good solid teacher, but I'm excited to pick up pro mode at some point in the future and kind of learn the basics. I get annoyed when there's all the harble garble about pro modes not being "real" and being a "waste of time". It's going to help me get acclimated to playing a real instrument I've never had the avenue to learn to play by myself.
So that Power Gig thing is out. Anyone mess around with it yet?
Ryan Davis from Giant Bomb was "complaining" about all the games coming out this week. He had a few capsule reviews on Twitter. "The Shoot is shit." and something about how terrible PowerGig is. Of course, he doesn't play guitar so who knows how good it really is.
I think that talking about your skill at guitar in performance mode and comparing that to what Pro Guitar will offer is a little silly
RB standard guitar is pretty damn abstract
I think if the game teaches you more complex, more specific notation, that'd be ingrained in your memory much more than where to do Green-Red chords and where to do Red-Yellow chords
but I doubt we'll know till we get our hands on it
The point is that Pro guitar in RB3 will only teach people to become good at Pro guitar in RB3. Nobody 'learns' legacy RB charts to play in Performance mode. Not as a rule, anyway. But they learn general patterns and techniques to pass five-button gameplay.
Learning Pro charts will be more like memorising multiplication tables. In order for it to be of any use, you have to find a practical aplication and an ability to go beyond what is taught. I don't know what RB3 is going to do, but I suspect that people are expecting too much from it.
The point is that Pro guitar in RB3 will only teach people to become good at Pro guitar in RB3. Nobody 'learns' legacy RB charts to play in Performance mode. Not as a rule, anyway. But they learn general patterns and techniques to pass five-button gameplay.
Learning Pro charts will be more like memorising multiplication tables. In order for it to be of any use, you have to find a practical aplication and an ability to go beyond what is taught. I don't know what RB3 is going to do, but I suspect that people are expecting too much from it.
All theory and history aside, if you use the real Squire pro-mode guitar and learn to play Say It Ain't So by Weezer on expert pro mode, and then unplug it and play those notes you'll be playing the same. I think thats what everyone is saying.
The point is that Pro guitar in RB3 will only teach people to become good at Pro guitar in RB3. Nobody 'learns' legacy RB charts to play in Performance mode. Not as a rule, anyway. But they learn general patterns and techniques to pass five-button gameplay.
Learning Pro charts will be more like memorising multiplication tables. In order for it to be of any use, you have to find a practical aplication and an ability to go beyond what is taught. I don't know what RB3 is going to do, but I suspect that people are expecting too much from it.
All theory and history aside, if you use the real Squire pro-mode guitar and learn to play Say It Ain't So by Weezer on expert pro mode, and then unplug it and play those notes you'll be playing the same. I think thats what everyone is saying.
I can memorise all the lines in a play, too. That doesn't make me an actor.
I know what everyone is saying. I also know that learning how to play Say It Ain't So by using tabs only isn't going to teach you how to play My Name Is Jonas. Rote memorisation teaches only one thing: How to repeat what is taught.
The point is that Pro guitar in RB3 will only teach people to become good at Pro guitar in RB3. Nobody 'learns' legacy RB charts to play in Performance mode. Not as a rule, anyway. But they learn general patterns and techniques to pass five-button gameplay.
Learning Pro charts will be more like memorising multiplication tables. In order for it to be of any use, you have to find a practical aplication and an ability to go beyond what is taught. I don't know what RB3 is going to do, but I suspect that people are expecting too much from it.
All theory and history aside, if you use the real Squire pro-mode guitar and learn to play Say It Ain't So by Weezer on expert pro mode, and then unplug it and play those notes you'll be playing the same. I think thats what everyone is saying.
I can memorise all the lines in a play, too. That doesn't make me an actor.
I know what everyone is saying. I also know that learning how to play Say It Ain't So by using tabs only isn't going to teach you how to play My Name Is Jonas. Rote memorisation teaches only one thing: How to repeat what is taught.
Your argument totally falls apart for me. I understand what you're saying but I don't think anyone is arguing with you. I'm going to learn to play Say it Aint So, and using my deductive reasoning say "oh, this must be this chord and this must be that." When I play another song I'm going to say "hmm...thats the same chord!" I like to give myself and other people credit enough to think that if they're interested in pro mode from the standpoint of an actual instrument, they'll be able to extrapolate some of the theory and basics on their own.
The point is that Pro guitar in RB3 will only teach people to become good at Pro guitar in RB3. Nobody 'learns' legacy RB charts to play in Performance mode. Not as a rule, anyway. But they learn general patterns and techniques to pass five-button gameplay.
Learning Pro charts will be more like memorising multiplication tables. In order for it to be of any use, you have to find a practical aplication and an ability to go beyond what is taught. I don't know what RB3 is going to do, but I suspect that people are expecting too much from it.
All theory and history aside, if you use the real Squire pro-mode guitar and learn to play Say It Ain't So by Weezer on expert pro mode, and then unplug it and play those notes you'll be playing the same. I think thats what everyone is saying.
I can memorise all the lines in a play, too. That doesn't make me an actor.
I know what everyone is saying. I also know that learning how to play Say It Ain't So by using tabs only isn't going to teach you how to play My Name Is Jonas. Rote memorisation teaches only one thing: How to repeat what is taught.
I understand what you mean but I'd rather be an optimist here. Just like you said, it's the same thing as learning tabs from a popular song. Playing that tab probably won't let you write your own songs or figure out melody, rhythm and so on.
How successful RB Pro ends up being will depend on the response it generates on its user base. I don't think it will instantly make you a guitar player, but if it motivates you from moving beyond that 5 button guitar then I believe it has accomplished its goal.
The point is that Pro guitar in RB3 will only teach people to become good at Pro guitar in RB3. Nobody 'learns' legacy RB charts to play in Performance mode. Not as a rule, anyway. But they learn general patterns and techniques to pass five-button gameplay.
Learning Pro charts will be more like memorising multiplication tables. In order for it to be of any use, you have to find a practical aplication and an ability to go beyond what is taught. I don't know what RB3 is going to do, but I suspect that people are expecting too much from it.
All theory and history aside, if you use the real Squire pro-mode guitar and learn to play Say It Ain't So by Weezer on expert pro mode, and then unplug it and play those notes you'll be playing the same. I think thats what everyone is saying.
I can memorise all the lines in a play, too. That doesn't make me an actor.
I know what everyone is saying. I also know that learning how to play Say It Ain't So by using tabs only isn't going to teach you how to play My Name Is Jonas. Rote memorisation teaches only one thing: How to repeat what is taught.
And do you not understand that this is entirely sufficient for many people who take up an instrument like the guitar? Almost nobody I knew who also played the guitar in high school would admit to writing any of their own music, or want to engage in a conversation on music theory. People generally just compared notes on what songs they could play and maybe exchanged technique tips on how to get through certain sections that were tough for them.
Assuming that many people really want to go beyond simply learning how to play songs based on reading tablature is foolish, at best.
Ketar on
0
acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
edited October 2010
do we really need to have this argument?
when guitar hero first came out there were plenty of those hurrdurr "it's not real, stop having fun guys" arguments. Then when rock band drums came out there were still those hurrdurr "it's not real, stop having fun guys" arguments. Now there's MIDI instruments, and still "it's not real, stop having fun guys".
my prediction is that when rock band 37 comes out and only real musicians(tm) will be allowed to play, we'll hear a "it's not real, stop having fun guys."
All I know is that even if the game doesn't learn you a guitar for great good! (which I don't expect it to) if it at least teaches the fingerskills requisite for playing high level guitar then that means nearly a whole generation of kids who have the potential to fucking rock house, and that IS something I can get behind.
Posts
As far as the Corporalgregg thing... the guy's biggest sin was flaunting material before the game's release (not to mention possible piracy). This won't necessarily lead to a crackdown in youtube videos of stuff posted after it's released.
Then again tackling the problem by simply turning off the sound is a new one to me.
It's the audio that is causing the problems for so many videos. Ones that go unmolested are those with ambient audio and the clackclackclackclack of drums or guitars in the background. Shutting off the audio (or even audio replacement) for a direct feed video rip would be enough to stop most labels (WMG would probably still act like geese). But the bitching about not hearing the song itself would increase.
And as far as future crackdowns are concerned, I refer to Pro guitar specifically because the labels and rights holders have a hard on for punishing tab sites. A Pro guitar video is basically a moving tab with audio. I figure somebody will get a bug up their ass about it eventually.
It's all pretty dodgy anyway. I'm not sure which is more lame; the argument about why the videos should be allowed or that they're actually important to the overall success of the game or content.
The Doors basically.
Try arguing with the fanbase that complains when the album art of some DLC is "incorrect".
No u!
Usually, however, I'll probably still want to get the song if I like the song enough. But a shitty chart or portion will absolutely kill a song I'm 'meh' about. So I watch the videos mainly for the music. As in: Do I like it?
It's why I try to find in-game examples of RBN songs over 'official' videos. To give people the ability to hear the song as they would in the game they're buying it for. Edits and mixing and all. Even those full-band previews are better than nothing since you get a flavour for both the chart and the song.
But the numbers prove that any added sales YouTube videos provide is meaningless next to the masses who still only cherry pick from packs to get the one song they liked from a previous GH game...
But something like this can potentially create a whole new bunch of people who have technically learned how to play a specific song, but not how to play the instrument itself. Sheet music isn't good for much besides instruction on which notes to play. People still need some kind of instruction to make sense of it.
Pro Mode is nothing more than streaming numbers on a screen. It doesn't care about anything other than whether or not you do what it says.
To put it into perspective: How many Rock Band players are good enough to play with Performance Mode turned on? The ability to take the skills being 'taught' and make them independent of gameplay is a leap too many people are assuming will happen. Music instruction without at least some kind of music theory is doomed to failure.
Still totally awesome though.
ROCK BAND 3 KEYBOARD BUNDLE FOR XBOX 360 - $100
There's only one drum song I can actually play in Performance Mode. I think I'm Paranoid. I never tried it with any other song.
And well, Vocal performance mode never was that tough for me. I've been able to get some 100% (and a couple of Gold Stars...Everlong and Sex On Fire) without having that much trouble.
That's because you already know how to play the vocal instrument. You're able to take what you know about the song and translate it into what you need to do on the "instrument".
Agreed. Especially with the cymbal add-on, if you can play expert drums in rock band and understand rhythm (read: youre not some weird prodigy that can only play because your recognition of color-patterns is uncanny) there's zero reason you shouldn't be able to sit down on a real basic kit and pump up the jams.
I dont know if this was to me, but I never do. Playing a basic rock beat at your leisure and copying a rock beat in the game are two different things.
Oh god yes, it's one thing to know what notes to play, but why to play them there is just as, if not more, important.
And theory can lead to awesome discussions. At a meet and greet with Dream Theater I spent the better part of a half-hour picking John Pettruci's brain about alternate voice leadings to try, in order to help me get out of my funk of always going to Phrygian (dominant, not Greek) and Lydian when improvising leads.
In that same chat session Mike Portnoy made 2 jaw-dropping revelations about his drumkit:
1.) He doesn't pay for the majority of his equipment.
and
2.) He doesn't assemble it himself.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Anyway, yes I do get what you mean. RB is nice and all but it can't replace a teacher. Hell, whenever my drummer friend sees how I play Message in a Bottle he's appalled at my "technique".
I figure the same thing will happen with Pro Guitar. BUT, if it gives you a solid foundation or at least inspires you to look for people to teach you, then I believe Rock Band Pro has done its job.
Ugh, I must've edit this post at least 8 times. Anyway, this is probably why I'm picking up the button guitar instead of going full out with the Squier. If I get that drive, sure I can get some lessons and get a cheap Gibson. If I don't, it's "only" 150$. Oh, disposable income I love you.
I agree with this. Ive never played the guitar but with a hectic work schedule and such I've never had the time or money to pay for lessons I can do consistently. I'm not about to make the argument that they are any kind of replacement for a good solid teacher, but I'm excited to pick up pro mode at some point in the future and kind of learn the basics. I get annoyed when there's all the harble garble about pro modes not being "real" and being a "waste of time". It's going to help me get acclimated to playing a real instrument I've never had the avenue to learn to play by myself.
What's wrong with that at all?
five days is really too far away
Ryan Davis from Giant Bomb was "complaining" about all the games coming out this week. He had a few capsule reviews on Twitter. "The Shoot is shit." and something about how terrible PowerGig is. Of course, he doesn't play guitar so who knows how good it really is.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
RB standard guitar is pretty damn abstract
I think if the game teaches you more complex, more specific notation, that'd be ingrained in your memory much more than where to do Green-Red chords and where to do Red-Yellow chords
but I doubt we'll know till we get our hands on it
Learning Pro charts will be more like memorising multiplication tables. In order for it to be of any use, you have to find a practical aplication and an ability to go beyond what is taught. I don't know what RB3 is going to do, but I suspect that people are expecting too much from it.
All theory and history aside, if you use the real Squire pro-mode guitar and learn to play Say It Ain't So by Weezer on expert pro mode, and then unplug it and play those notes you'll be playing the same. I think thats what everyone is saying.
I can memorise all the lines in a play, too. That doesn't make me an actor.
I know what everyone is saying. I also know that learning how to play Say It Ain't So by using tabs only isn't going to teach you how to play My Name Is Jonas. Rote memorisation teaches only one thing: How to repeat what is taught.
Your argument totally falls apart for me. I understand what you're saying but I don't think anyone is arguing with you. I'm going to learn to play Say it Aint So, and using my deductive reasoning say "oh, this must be this chord and this must be that." When I play another song I'm going to say "hmm...thats the same chord!" I like to give myself and other people credit enough to think that if they're interested in pro mode from the standpoint of an actual instrument, they'll be able to extrapolate some of the theory and basics on their own.
I understand what you mean but I'd rather be an optimist here. Just like you said, it's the same thing as learning tabs from a popular song. Playing that tab probably won't let you write your own songs or figure out melody, rhythm and so on.
How successful RB Pro ends up being will depend on the response it generates on its user base. I don't think it will instantly make you a guitar player, but if it motivates you from moving beyond that 5 button guitar then I believe it has accomplished its goal.
And do you not understand that this is entirely sufficient for many people who take up an instrument like the guitar? Almost nobody I knew who also played the guitar in high school would admit to writing any of their own music, or want to engage in a conversation on music theory. People generally just compared notes on what songs they could play and maybe exchanged technique tips on how to get through certain sections that were tough for them.
Assuming that many people really want to go beyond simply learning how to play songs based on reading tablature is foolish, at best.
when guitar hero first came out there were plenty of those hurrdurr "it's not real, stop having fun guys" arguments. Then when rock band drums came out there were still those hurrdurr "it's not real, stop having fun guys" arguments. Now there's MIDI instruments, and still "it's not real, stop having fun guys".
my prediction is that when rock band 37 comes out and only real musicians(tm) will be allowed to play, we'll hear a "it's not real, stop having fun guys."
All I know is that even if the game doesn't learn you a guitar for great good! (which I don't expect it to) if it at least teaches the fingerskills requisite for playing high level guitar then that means nearly a whole generation of kids who have the potential to fucking rock house, and that IS something I can get behind.