I'm one for innovative and new, I always enjoy a change of pace. But I don't think EA/bioware are looking to make anything other than something to compete with WoW. WoW didn't have good graphics, has simplistic combat, and basic character structure. Yet, it's pretty much conquered the MMO world. There has never been an MMO to even come close to what it has accomplished. And EA wants a piece of that pie.
I can't, and I'm pretty sure no one else can, yet say which will be better. GW2 or TOR. But, EA has its eyes on the money and seems to be aiming at the widest possible audience. Larger auidence = more money. More money = more game features/development time. If they follow the wow path that is. They might just horde the money and have orgies in it or something. Who knows. Chances are, like a lot of you, I'll play both of them at some point.
So, I've been reading and listening to a bunch of stuff about GW2 this morning and honestly, I don't know why more people aren't talking about it.
It's a simple reason really, there's a very high chance that everything GW2 promises is bull shit and will never happen. MMOs have a track record for promising the Moon and than failing horribly. The key difference with TOR and GW2 is that TOR has been fairly up front and realistic about what it will have in terms of features.
So, I've been reading and listening to a bunch of stuff about GW2 this morning and honestly, I don't know why more people aren't talking about it.
It's a simple reason really, there's a very high chance that everything GW2 promises is bull shit and will never happen. MMOs have a track record for promising the Moon and than failing horribly. The key difference with TOR and GW2 is that TOR has been fairly up front and realistic about what it will have in terms of features.
If I had a nickel...
Yeah I vaguely recall WAR said that they were going to do something alot similiar that arena.net is doing with pve.
So, I've been reading and listening to a bunch of stuff about GW2 this morning and honestly, I don't know why more people aren't talking about it.
It's a simple reason really, there's a very high chance that everything GW2 promises is bull shit and will never happen. MMOs have a track record for promising the Moon and than failing horribly. The key difference with TOR and GW2 is that TOR has been fairly up front and realistic about what it will have in terms of features.
If I had a nickel...
A "very high chance that everything GW2 promises is bullshit"?
That's a pretty unequivocal, bold statement that I have to disagree with. I think it's clear that when it comes to the specific combat features revealed so far, that's not bullshit. They have videos showing off an Elementalist dodging arrows from a centaur, or a Warrior spinning in a fire circle, causing fire to explode outward, and a bunch of other things. The skill system was in the original Guild Wars, so that's gonna be in there, of course.
The dynamic event stuff, and the general promises to cut down on the grind and encourage players to play together -- yeah, that might turn out completely differently in reality. Really though, it's the combat that gets me most excited, and that seems like it will happen.
Melkster on
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
Well, they've had people play the game at PAX and Gamescom, so if it was all bullshit I'm sure we'd know by now.
A "very high chance that everything GW2 promises is bullshit"?
I guess I should have added the quantifier of everything that they claim will result in mold breaking.
That's a pretty unequivocal, bold statement that I have to disagree with. I think it's clear that when it comes to the specific combat features revealed so far, that's not bullshit. They have videos showing off an Elementalist dodging arrows from a centaur, or a Warrior spinning in a fire circle, causing fire to explode outward, and a bunch of other things. The skill system was in the original Guild Wars, so that's gonna be in there, of course.
I don't know about you, but I've seen all of that before in several other MMOs. I'm hesitant to say that it works any better in GW2 than in those other games. I did like the part I saw about people not actually dying but kind of being crippled on the ground and still able to do things, more games should have that. Anyway, The overall point is I'll believe it when I'm actually doing it, same goes for TOR.
There's just something about the GW2 PR that seems wrong. Too many promises about changing whatever, I guess.
Magic Radio on
0
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
I think we can all agree that both GW2 and TOR need to be held to a high standard, and that that can only be done when they are both released and played, and a consensus reached. They are both MMOs, promising the Moon in their own way, and going about innovating the genre differently with different IPs. We can't really choose sides yet regardless of which ones are saying what, and how reasonable that is in terms of scope, budget and what we see in screenshots and gameplay videos.
To be fair, GW2 has had it's demo, and TOR has had it's closed beta. Both have been tried out by various people with mixed opinions on unfinished products. We cannot decide what lives up to expectation and what doesn't until, as Radio said, the games come out and we play them. Arguing it now is silly.
Corehealer on
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
Yeah, well, there hadn't been posts in this thread for 24 hours. We should argue about it to never again run into such drought of postage.
Also, TOR was playable at Gamescom and/or PAX. No one talks about it, though, because everyone was super impressed with GW2.
I think it's more that TOR has been doing gradual info release for a really long time and people are just settling in where as GW2 (to the best of my knowledge) just exploded with a load of information and people are hyped for it.
Both games look cool for different reasons and I know I intend to try them both as well as a few others.
MMORPG's are still a relatively infant genre and for some reason people seem to vehemently defend/promote their choice of social poison. I feel like I'm witnessing school yard arguments over mario vs sonic or superman vs batman in pretty much every on-line space I visit recently.
I just hope that as the genre expands, people will start treating them like they do other games and realise it's cool to be interested in various titles for varying reasons, without jamming that opinion on everyone else. Talk about TOR in the TOR thread and GW2 in the GW2 thread (and no I'm not trying to be thread police, a man can just dream.)
EDIT: Although I suppose it's kind of interesting to see something other than endless Wow comparisons.
I think it's more that TOR has been doing gradual info release for a really long time and people are just settling in where as GW2 (to the best of my knowledge) just exploded with a load of information and people are hyped for it.
Nope, Arena.net has been doing the same kind of gradual info release that Bioware is doing.
Both games look cool for different reasons and I know I intend to try them both as well as a few others.
Yeah, they both have their good sides and I'm sure TOR will be worth, if not continous monthly fees, the initial purchase at the very least.
As much as I love Star Wars, and as much as I hope this game is everything I ever wanted from a Star Wars MMO, I'm not entirely certain it will deliver when the game gets released and everyone starts logging on.
As a computer engineer, I spend a lot of my time thinking about function when I design user interfaces. How will people use this thing I created? What would make the use of it easier? Sometimes, I'm on the money, and sometimes I miss the mark. I have a hard time imagining what that would be like extrapolated out to the MMO level with that much capital and that much market penetration they need to make this thing successful.
The main reason we get this schoolyard stuff that was alluded to is that no one wants to play a MMO alone. More to the point, MMOs are more fun when you play it with people you like. Can this game end up being exactly what I'd like on the design end and still be awesome? Honestly, I don't think so. It requires other people to play with as well. MMOs are about real time being invested, and if you don't have anyone around to share in the trials/tribulations, it can slow up real fast.
GW2 looks pretty great, but any MMO has to deal with the stress of being put in a situation where thousands of people are logged on and doing what they may have not anticipated. It's hard to say what will happen.
There are a few things that look promising for SWTOR though.
1. Dialog and Plot
2. Huge areas to explore
3. A Combat system built around larger scale engagements compared to one big boss or 4 to 5 elite minions.
4. Ships as player housing
5. The Star Wars IP
6. Unique class stories
Whether any of this shit comes to pass is a guess at this point. I haven't gotten to play the beta = .
I think we can all agree that both GW2 and TOR need to be held to a high standard, and that that can only be done when they are both released and played, and a consensus reached. They are both MMOs, promising the Moon in their own way, and going about innovating the genre differently with different IPs. We can't really choose sides yet regardless of which ones are saying what, and how reasonable that is in terms of scope, budget and what we see in screenshots and gameplay videos.
To be fair, GW2 has had it's demo, and TOR has had it's closed beta. Both have been tried out by various people with mixed opinions on unfinished products. We cannot decide what lives up to expectation and what doesn't until, as Radio said, the games come out and we play them. Arguing it now is silly.
Well, really I just started talking about it because the thread was in a slow patch. :P
One quick note before I go on: I've tried to be very careful with my choice of words here. I'm not so much having an out-and-out argument about which game is objectively better. I don't think Adda's comparison to 'school yard arguments' is fair for my particular discussion on the matter. I'm merely suggesting the following:
I think you're wrong when you say that TOR has promised us the moon. I don't think they have. They haven't even promised us the Death Star. But even still, that's no moon.
Yeah, I went there. This whole post I wrote just to say that one line. In fact, I'm not even going to write anything else. Just gonna stop right here.
Melkster on
0
KazooGet in the van.I have candy.Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
I swear on all that is good and holy, I am pre-ordering the CE the moment it is available.
Thanks for the video post. The cutscenes and dialogue seemed fairly good, I liked some of the later level costume designs in the empire videos. The combat is still what scares me the most. It still looks like everyone's feet are just planted in cement, it's the one thing that scares me about the game. It's just not fluid or engaging looking at all. To a degree that's worse than most mmo combat even. It's not like it's "not good compared to X" it just looks bland and stale out of the gate.
I realize they didn't "promise the moon" when it came to combat but let's face it, these games are 90% repetition of the combat over and over again and the animations in that realm are very lacking imo.
I don't know if it's the over-stylized characters or the atmosphere, but when I see characters that look like that I expect the animations to be just as stylized and smooth. But as it stands the classes all seem to stand in one spot. They're just so stiff. If it was further from release or not in the public eye I'd think that they were just substitute animations but I really don't think that's the case.
I think it's difficult to convey how the combat will work in the videos they are releasing. They obviously don't want to show very much at this point, but they want to show off the cool moves and so on that the models can do. Cutting back and forth between those winds up making things look really stilted.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
I'd imagine that when people are criticizing the combat they're talking about videos from Gamescom and PAX, not the developer diary stuff.
reVerse on
0
Burden of ProofYou three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on.Registered Userregular
As far as GW2's dynamic stuff goes, I'll just say that I've seen MMOs promise that stuff before and it always gets cut out. The most I've actually seen make it into a game is Tabula Rasa where aliens might take over a hub outpost til players clear them out. Other than EVE which is dynamic based on the players and not the NPCs.
The lightsaber video was great, that low quality hand cam reminded me of watching an old disney movie at the theater growing up.
gameplay question. we have a race that sees through the force because they can't see with their eyes. How the hell will stealth work in this game if you're going invisible to people who don't rely on their eyes to see you in the first place? "Stealth belt? That's cool, I can still feel your every feeling movement anyway."
Well, aren't some of the jedi/sith branches supposed to be stealthy? Maybe they mask their prescence though the force. Didn't palpatine do that?
And... Space Wizards, nuff said.
Yeah, in the videos there are clear distinctions between Jedi and smuggler stealth.
Jedis stealth looks more flowing and "comes from within" and the smuggler has some sort of tech that is making it happen- probably a personal stealth generator.
I also have to say I love their color choices so far for both the jedi and Sith. Feels very authentic.
The native Californian side is saying "hella tight" while my Florida resident side is saying "gooder'n grits."
The Friday update is all about the smuggler:
No two Smugglers are exactly alike, and you’ll be able to customize your character to fit your play style. You’ll face many choices in how your Smuggler develops as you explore the Old Republic galaxy. One of the most important decisions will be which Advanced Class to pursue—whether you want to become the fastest draw in the Outer Rim as a Gunslinger, or whether you prefer to specialize in some of the Smuggler’s more cunning tactics as a Scoundrel. Both paths have their own rewards and more choices within their various disciplines, but you’ll have to choose what style suits you best—or better yet, maybe you’ll want to try them both!
If you’re interested in playing something just a little more exotic than human, you might want create a Twi’lek Smuggler. Learn more about this species and get a closer look on the Twi’lek Inhabitants page.
No Smuggler would be complete without a Wookiee companion, so we’d like to introduce you to Bowdaar, the mighty Wookiee warrior. You can learn more about this known associate on the Smuggler page or by accessing Bowdaar’s biography.
A Wookiee’s not the only necessity. A Smuggler wouldn’t be able to do much smuggling without a personal starship. Check out the new Starship section of the HoloNet, and make sure to look at the Smuggler’s Corellian XS Stock Light Freighter. It’s the ship that can make the “Balmorra run” in just a handful of parsecs, and if you choose to play the Smuggler, it will be yours.
Finally, if you love the Smuggler as much as we do, we can guarantee you’ll enjoy the new Smuggler Class Gameplay Video. This video captures the spirit of how the Smuggler plays in the game, and if you look carefully, you might even see something you’ve never seen before.
uggg. wookies. nothing wrong with them, just annoyed at the "No Smuggler would be complete without a Wookiee companion" line. Because one guy a movie has a walking carpet everyone needs to.
I must be one of the unwashed masses, because I am super excited to troll around the galaxy as a Scoundrel (I will be scruffy looking) with my wookie companion.
E: Looking at the video for the interior of the ship, that 2-story cargo bay is very reminiscent of the Serenity, particularly from the specific angle they first show it.
The Dagon on
Steam ID : TheDagon
PSN : TheDagon
Pretty much every game ever : TheDagon
I must be one of the unwashed masses, because I am super excited to troll around the galaxy as a Scoundrel (I will be scruffy looking) with my wookie companion.
Punch it, Bowdaar!
My Bobba Fett inspired Bounty Hunter will be waiting for you.
Ugh. Firefly fucking sucked. Looks like I won't be playing a Smuggler. And who the fuck wants a Wookiee companion? I want to be a Wookiee, god damn it.
Ugh. Firefly fucking sucked. Looks like I won't be playing a Smuggler. And who the fuck wants a Wookiee companion? I want to be a Wookiee, god damn it.
Everything in this sentence is so wrong I'm surprised it didn't explode when you typed it, destroying everything in a ten block radius.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Posts
I can't, and I'm pretty sure no one else can, yet say which will be better. GW2 or TOR. But, EA has its eyes on the money and seems to be aiming at the widest possible audience. Larger auidence = more money. More money = more game features/development time. If they follow the wow path that is. They might just horde the money and have orgies in it or something. Who knows. Chances are, like a lot of you, I'll play both of them at some point.
It's a simple reason really, there's a very high chance that everything GW2 promises is bull shit and will never happen. MMOs have a track record for promising the Moon and than failing horribly. The key difference with TOR and GW2 is that TOR has been fairly up front and realistic about what it will have in terms of features.
If I had a nickel...
Yeah I vaguely recall WAR said that they were going to do something alot similiar that arena.net is doing with pve.
SC2: XxKhrushchev.539
A "very high chance that everything GW2 promises is bullshit"?
That's a pretty unequivocal, bold statement that I have to disagree with. I think it's clear that when it comes to the specific combat features revealed so far, that's not bullshit. They have videos showing off an Elementalist dodging arrows from a centaur, or a Warrior spinning in a fire circle, causing fire to explode outward, and a bunch of other things. The skill system was in the original Guild Wars, so that's gonna be in there, of course.
The dynamic event stuff, and the general promises to cut down on the grind and encourage players to play together -- yeah, that might turn out completely differently in reality. Really though, it's the combat that gets me most excited, and that seems like it will happen.
I guess I should have added the quantifier of everything that they claim will result in mold breaking.
I don't know about you, but I've seen all of that before in several other MMOs. I'm hesitant to say that it works any better in GW2 than in those other games. I did like the part I saw about people not actually dying but kind of being crippled on the ground and still able to do things, more games should have that. Anyway, The overall point is I'll believe it when I'm actually doing it, same goes for TOR.
There's just something about the GW2 PR that seems wrong. Too many promises about changing whatever, I guess.
To be fair, GW2 has had it's demo, and TOR has had it's closed beta. Both have been tried out by various people with mixed opinions on unfinished products. We cannot decide what lives up to expectation and what doesn't until, as Radio said, the games come out and we play them. Arguing it now is silly.
Also, TOR was playable at Gamescom and/or PAX. No one talks about it, though, because everyone was super impressed with GW2.
Both games look cool for different reasons and I know I intend to try them both as well as a few others.
MMORPG's are still a relatively infant genre and for some reason people seem to vehemently defend/promote their choice of social poison. I feel like I'm witnessing school yard arguments over mario vs sonic or superman vs batman in pretty much every on-line space I visit recently.
I just hope that as the genre expands, people will start treating them like they do other games and realise it's cool to be interested in various titles for varying reasons, without jamming that opinion on everyone else. Talk about TOR in the TOR thread and GW2 in the GW2 thread (and no I'm not trying to be thread police, a man can just dream.)
EDIT: Although I suppose it's kind of interesting to see something other than endless Wow comparisons.
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
Nope, Arena.net has been doing the same kind of gradual info release that Bioware is doing.
Yeah, they both have their good sides and I'm sure TOR will be worth, if not continous monthly fees, the initial purchase at the very least.
http://jediarchiveonline.com/2010/09/pax-presentation-videos/
I particularly like the Alderaan one at the bottom.
EDIT: shit biscuits, scratch that. The lightsaber forging one is epic
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
As a computer engineer, I spend a lot of my time thinking about function when I design user interfaces. How will people use this thing I created? What would make the use of it easier? Sometimes, I'm on the money, and sometimes I miss the mark. I have a hard time imagining what that would be like extrapolated out to the MMO level with that much capital and that much market penetration they need to make this thing successful.
The main reason we get this schoolyard stuff that was alluded to is that no one wants to play a MMO alone. More to the point, MMOs are more fun when you play it with people you like. Can this game end up being exactly what I'd like on the design end and still be awesome? Honestly, I don't think so. It requires other people to play with as well. MMOs are about real time being invested, and if you don't have anyone around to share in the trials/tribulations, it can slow up real fast.
GW2 looks pretty great, but any MMO has to deal with the stress of being put in a situation where thousands of people are logged on and doing what they may have not anticipated. It's hard to say what will happen.
There are a few things that look promising for SWTOR though.
1. Dialog and Plot
2. Huge areas to explore
3. A Combat system built around larger scale engagements compared to one big boss or 4 to 5 elite minions.
4. Ships as player housing
5. The Star Wars IP
6. Unique class stories
Whether any of this shit comes to pass is a guess at this point. I haven't gotten to play the beta =
SteamID: devCharles
twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesewise
Well, really I just started talking about it because the thread was in a slow patch. :P
One quick note before I go on: I've tried to be very careful with my choice of words here. I'm not so much having an out-and-out argument about which game is objectively better. I don't think Adda's comparison to 'school yard arguments' is fair for my particular discussion on the matter. I'm merely suggesting the following:
I think you're wrong when you say that TOR has promised us the moon. I don't think they have. They haven't even promised us the Death Star. But even still, that's no moon.
Yeah, I went there. This whole post I wrote just to say that one line. In fact, I'm not even going to write anything else. Just gonna stop right here.
I realize they didn't "promise the moon" when it came to combat but let's face it, these games are 90% repetition of the combat over and over again and the animations in that realm are very lacking imo.
I don't know if it's the over-stylized characters or the atmosphere, but when I see characters that look like that I expect the animations to be just as stylized and smooth. But as it stands the classes all seem to stand in one spot. They're just so stiff. If it was further from release or not in the public eye I'd think that they were just substitute animations but I really don't think that's the case.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Do the kids still use that word? Dope?
gameplay question. we have a race that sees through the force because they can't see with their eyes. How the hell will stealth work in this game if you're going invisible to people who don't rely on their eyes to see you in the first place? "Stealth belt? That's cool, I can still feel your every feeling movement anyway."
3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
Shiny Code: 3837
And... Space Wizards, nuff said.
Edit: What is this lightsaber forging video you speak of?
Yeah, in the videos there are clear distinctions between Jedi and smuggler stealth.
Jedis stealth looks more flowing and "comes from within" and the smuggler has some sort of tech that is making it happen- probably a personal stealth generator.
I also have to say I love their color choices so far for both the jedi and Sith. Feels very authentic.
SC2: XxKhrushchev.539
You equip regular clothing and activate "Force Conceal" and walk around enemy controlled cities but no one can tell you apart from the NPCs.
3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
Shiny Code: 3837
I think it's 'ballin' and 'ridonkulous' now. I don't know, to be honest - I'm 30.
I still say "wicked awesome" but I'm from Boston.
3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
Shiny Code: 3837
The Friday update is all about the smuggler:
SteamID: devCharles
twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesewise
3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
Shiny Code: 3837
Punch it, Bowdaar!
AND it's Star Wars?
OK, I'll play this game.
E: Looking at the video for the interior of the ship, that 2-story cargo bay is very reminiscent of the Serenity, particularly from the specific angle they first show it.
PSN : TheDagon
Pretty much every game ever : TheDagon
They said in some videos the smuggle is inspired by the Captain from Firefly. Maclom Reynolds?
3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
Shiny Code: 3837
PSN : TheDagon
Pretty much every game ever : TheDagon
3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
Shiny Code: 3837
My Bobba Fett inspired Bounty Hunter will be waiting for you.
Yeah if it wasn't for the fact I had already committed to playing a Jedi Wizard I would totally be a smuggler.
SC2: XxKhrushchev.539
Everything in this sentence is so wrong I'm surprised it didn't explode when you typed it, destroying everything in a ten block radius.
Surely. The only people who don't like Firefly are Nazis.
You're not a Nazi are you?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
he is insane.... so there's a distinct possibilty.
I present the motion to shun him until further notice.
SC2: XxKhrushchev.539