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[SW:TOR] Jennifer Hale voicing Trooper (Page 98)

1246763

Posts

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    DPS have something quantitative to look at and go "Yes, I am good" (DPS meters). Healers have two states: Failed, or not failed. Yah there are healing output meters, and overheal meters, and HPS meters, but for the most part, none of it means a lick. You succeeded, or you failed and here's why.

    So I'm not sure about "thankless", as I think that's kind of an odd term to use. It's more, you are either the nobody, or the goat. You do your job right, and no one notices. You do it wrong, and people yell at you. There's very little slip up room as a healer (and to some extent as a tank).

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • VicVic Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    There is really no difference in gameplay, generally speaking, between healer and dps.

    One hits buttons and makes green bars go up.

    One hits buttons and makes green bars go down.

    The reason people don't play healers is because playing a healer means being concerned about other people, and how MMO players give a shit about anybody other than themselves?

    No, they don't play healers because it's a thankless job. You do great, no one gives a shit. Something gets fucked up and the healer is the first to get blamed, regardless that the tank didn't hold aggro, or the DPS went too crazy with their damage. Honestly, with the amount of shit my wife took as a priest, I have no idea how she stuck with it so long.

    This really is just an argument for not playing with people who suck. It is just as frustrating to play with terribles as a DPS class as it is as a healer.

    Also, healer is a thankless job, but DPS isn't?

    There is a difference though. As DPS you can excel, and your reward is to kill monsters quickly and to lord it over the other players how much you contributed to the group through damage meters. As a healer you are either good enough or you cause the group to wipe. I played a tank in WoW and tried to compliment healers when they really performed well, but it is all too easy to forget about healers altogether until the group wipes, especially if you are an ignorant DPS player.

    Edit: Beaten by Gnometank

    Vic on
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    So I'm not sure about "thankless", as I think that's kind of an odd term to use. It's more, you are either the nobody, or the goat. You do your job right, and no one notices. You do it wrong, and people yell at you. There's very little slip up room as a healer (and to some extent as a tank).

    When a good healer gets a chance to really shine, it's often due to the rest of the group screwing something up too. Ideally a group avoids that kind of situation to begin with due to the other class roles performing at close to their peak.

    Steel Angel on
    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • Agent CooperAgent Cooper Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    EQ2 Furies are really, to me, one of the better balanced healer/DPS hybrids out there. As much as I'm not an EQ2 fan in general, that class specifically kept me playing it for quite a while.

    e: I should point out, I actually think WoW has their hybrids pretty well balanced at this point to. But Fury has been a balanced example of a good hybrid for several years.

    I can't speak to EQ2, having never played it, but I do know that WoW hybrids do not perform more than one function well at a time. In other words, a resto druid does not dps, and a feral druids does not heal. Same with a holy paladin versus ret paladin.

    Resto druids and holy paladins both stand in the back and heal. It sounds like what you want is more like a shadow priest with... vampiric embrace, I think it is?:
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    A rhetorical point in so far as to say: "Standing in the back and shooting" and "Standing in the front and tanking" tend to be more interesting than "Standing in the back and healing", and if we could roll the third one, in to the fold of just sort of doing the first and second, it would make the game more interesting all the way around.

    You really believe a shadow priest putting out enough heals to also be a main healer wouldn't be grossly overpowered?

    And for the record, I think healing is way more interesting than DPSing. DPSing in groups bores the hell out of me.

    Agent Cooper on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    EQ2 Furies are really, to me, one of the better balanced healer/DPS hybrids out there. As much as I'm not an EQ2 fan in general, that class specifically kept me playing it for quite a while.

    e: I should point out, I actually think WoW has their hybrids pretty well balanced at this point to. But Fury has been a balanced example of a good hybrid for several years.

    I can't speak to EQ2, having never played it, but I do know that WoW hybrids do not perform more than one function well at a time. In other words, a resto druid does not dps, and a feral druids does not heal. Same with a holy paladin versus ret paladin.

    Resto druids and holy paladins both stand in the back and heal. It sounds like what you want is more like a shadow priest with... vampiric embrace, I think it is?:

    I think you're looking at the question wrong. You are assuming the game must have the kind of damage output that requires a healer as strong as a resto druid to sit and be a dedicated healer. Now what if healing was everyone's job, via medkits and the hybrid classes using their healing abilities. No class has main healer powerful heals, because the game system is tuned not to need them. The system could be tuned to be much more "Star Wars"-esque by making getting hit at all pretty bad. This opens up a whole new branch of possible avoidance powers and enhancers (think Force Speed, or some kind of dodge roll for the more shooty classes or the already put in place cover system). They've already said they want combat to be exceptionally fast, with you fighting groups of enemies, CoX style. It would seem a very avoidance centric combat system would mesh incredibly nicely with that.

    So heals become an emergency usage tool, rather than a constant stream of green numbers. 90% of the fight, you're health bar isn't really dancing around, and then ouch, that little peon got me with a blaster shot to the hand. Now one of your hybrid healers can toss a heal, or if they are busy or out of resources, you can jam a quick medkit.

    The entire idea seems much more Star Warsy to me than some dude with a lightsaber standing their getting his face smashed in, while another dude with a lightsaber (hanging from his belt of course) stands behind him and jams force heals at him.

    As a side note, this is basically exactly how KoToR played, so it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility this is the "feel" BioWare is going for. No one really knows.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Agent CooperAgent Cooper Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    You're talking about a game that isn't this one. We already know TOR is Space-WoW. We've seen the video with the trooper tanking, the consular or whatever healing, and the smuggler off doing DPS stuff.

    So your idea might work, in a different game. One without defined roles. But this isn't it.

    Also, I disagree with your assessment of combat in KotOR. Combat in KotOR was "max Flurry and/or Power attack, force leap into group, kill them before they kill you, rinse, repeat." It was dreadfully bland. There was no avoidance. Also, you could level companions as dedicated healers, so, I'm not sure we played the same KotOR.

    Agent Cooper on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    That's what the defense stat, the various defense buffs, Knight's Speed and blaster blocking were for, avoidance. A Jedi Guardian with max Jedi Defense, a good Jedi Robe, and the appropriate melee buffs was a monster to even touch. Sure offensively it was all about flurry with duel sabers, but if you used the system right, you rarely got hit (until the Star Forge when the game just sent a gajillion enemies at you). Even then, I never once had, or felt compelled to have, a dedicated healer companion. I emergency healed with my MC as a Jedi Guardian.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Agent CooperAgent Cooper Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    That's what the defense stat, the various defense buffs, Knight's Speed and blaster blocking were for, avoidance. A Jedi Guardian with max Jedi Defense, a good Jedi Robe, and the appropriate melee buffs was a monster to even touch. Sure offensively it was all about flurry with duel sabers, but if you used the system right, you rarely got hit (until the Star Forge when the game just sent a gajillion enemies at you). Even then, I never once had, or felt compelled to have, a dedicated healer companion. I emergency healed with my MC as a Jedi Guardian.

    And that sounds like a compelling multiplayer game in what way? Why should Jolee Bindo play with you if you both can do everything yourselves? And if you can and Jolee Bindo can't, why should Jolee Bindo play at all?

    And probably most importantly, why pay $15 a month to play something like that?

    Agent Cooper on
  • NyhtNyht Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Its hard to judge by the multiplayer video with the consular as to what their job might be. It was a lower level encounter and even in WoW and EQ2 the healer often times had a chance to do other things. The higher level play will really determine how it goes as the higher the levels go, the more you have to spam the heals it seems.

    I do hope things are different and they stay the same as in the video where the healer had times to do other things.

    Also the role of a good dps is to simply make the runs faster. I DO hope, however, that they somehow find a way to kill any chance at a dps meter to stop all this epeen posting of people. Its a pipe dream but a dream none the less.

    I have to agree with the idea of everyone having at least SOME healing so that its everyone's job a little (save for maybe the tank as they have enough to worry about). Throwing out spot heals, energy shields on the tank or on the group. Of course keep the consular as the strongest at this but this also gives them multi-tasking options which, I find, the healer really needs. As a Disciple of Khaine when the game first came out, I had a real blast in the first 3 tiers. However come tier 4 I turned into a traditional healbot which kind of sucked.

    This game really does have a lot of potential (minus some very bad class naming) and I'll remain hopeful. This will also be the VERY first MMO I've ever rolled a human (save for Guild Wars but you didn't have a choice there).

    Nyht on
  • Operative21Operative21 Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    And that sounds like a compelling multiplayer game in what way? Why should Jolee Bindo play with you if you both can do everything yourselves? And if you can and Jolee Bindo can't, why should Jolee Bindo play at all?

    And probably most importantly, why pay $15 a month to play something like that?

    Mostly so I can tell Jolee Bindo to go fuck himself, butcher his friends and loved ones, and collect their skulls as lovely decorative hats.

    I suppose it all depends on the kind of multiplayer interaction you prefer.

    Seriously though, I don't think it's impossible to find a balance between allowing players to solo and forced co-operation. Moreover, I tend to dislike rigid role definitions, as it has a tendency to limit your gameplay options based on the characters available at a given point in time. Standing around shouting "LFM Healer PST" for an hour is not fun. Being able to grab 4 random people and integrate them into a functional group on the fly seems alot more conducive to having a fun time, especially if you're a working individual with a limited amount of time to play.

    Operative21 on
  • XehalusXehalus Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Since WoW doesn't want to keep undergeared players out of my ICC heroics through stat/gearscore filtering, I hope this game uses the storyline driven mechanic to keep the baddies out of my co-op.

    Xehalus on
  • slurpeepoopslurpeepoop Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Xehalus wrote: »
    Since WoW doesn't want to keep undergeared players out of my ICC heroics through stat/gearscore filtering, I hope this game uses the storyline driven mechanic to keep the baddies out of my co-op.

    So, instead of "LFM ICC 5.5k gs, link achieve", we'll get "LFM AT-AT battle, link reward from chapter 2, must have saved Randy the Space Lobster"?

    It's still the same thing.


    Baddies can still be carried, baddies can still fly through content without knowing their character or dialogue options, and really, this is an MMO. For every one of us that reads the story, relishes the content, and rolls themselves up in the lore and dialogue like a warm blanket, there's going to be 20 players who skip the dialogue to kill mans for phat lewt.

    slurpeepoop on
  • DecoyDecoy Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Xehalus wrote: »
    .... link reward from chapter 2, must have saved Randy the Space Lobster"?

    So apparently the "Chapter 2" instance takes place on a beach. Where everyone in the party has matching towel quest items. Then at the end of the instance there's a dock, and someone in the party has to loot a rock.

    ... but it isn't a rock.... :)


    Edit: I'm so, so sorry.

    Decoy on
  • slurpeepoopslurpeepoop Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    It WAS a rock.

    ROCK LOBSTER!

    slurpeepoop on
  • NerfThatManNerfThatMan Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Said it before, saying it again in the hopes of getting it to actually happen by saying it into the depths of the internet again:

    Give me trophies for killing people as a Bounty Hunter. Be it part of the story, PvP, anything. Let me hang a lightsaber above my mantle.

    NerfThatMan on
    PSN: corporateshill
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Xehalus wrote: »
    Since WoW doesn't want to keep undergeared players out of my ICC heroics through stat/gearscore filtering, I hope this game uses the storyline driven mechanic to keep the baddies out of my co-op.

    Umm, WoW does keep undergeared people out of the ICC heroics. If you go to the dungeon finder and WoW doesn't think your gear is good enough, it puts a little lock icon next to it and it says "You need better gear to do this instance". HoR is the last of the heroics to open up, and requires a GS around 4500 (though WoW doesn't use GS directly, it uses average ilevel).

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    That's what the defense stat, the various defense buffs, Knight's Speed and blaster blocking were for, avoidance. A Jedi Guardian with max Jedi Defense, a good Jedi Robe, and the appropriate melee buffs was a monster to even touch. Sure offensively it was all about flurry with duel sabers, but if you used the system right, you rarely got hit (until the Star Forge when the game just sent a gajillion enemies at you). Even then, I never once had, or felt compelled to have, a dedicated healer companion. I emergency healed with my MC as a Jedi Guardian.

    And that sounds like a compelling multiplayer game in what way? Why should Jolee Bindo play with you if you both can do everything yourselves? And if you can and Jolee Bindo can't, why should Jolee Bindo play at all?

    And probably most importantly, why pay $15 a month to play something like that?

    Man, it's cool that you just want to play WoW in space, but you can be less of a prick to people who want something different. For that matter, your obtuse statements at this point prove you have no argument other than "I want WoW in space, and if you don't, nanner nanner".

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Burden of ProofBurden of Proof You three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on. Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Stop saying WoW in Space.

    Burden of Proof on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Yeah, it's WoW: Star Wars Edition. WoW in Space will be the Starcraft MMO if they ever make one.

    reVerse on
  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Starcraft Warscraft

    Alegis on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    A long time ago in a galaxy far, far, away.....

    WoW in space.

    Joshmvii on
  • Magic RadioMagic Radio Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    The real question should be: Which D&D rule set will they use for this game?

    Magic Radio on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Man you are basically saying you played a supercharged jedi wizard-slash-lightsaber-cuisinart who didn't need a healer because it's not as though anything could hit you anyway with apparently no thought given at all to the idea that this probably isn't that compelling a "role" to make available in a multiplayer game.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • LockeColeLockeCole Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    The real question should be: Which D&D rule set will they use for this game?

    1st edition, obviously. :lol:

    LockeCole on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I really hope that this game is not WoW in space. I was hoping it would be KotOR in space.

    Lucascraft on
  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I've heard it could be some kind of MMO KoTOR

    Alegis on
  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    No just KoTOR 3 with multiplayer and deathmatch.

    Transporter on
  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    So, after looking up the Jedi classes. I can not play a light armored or DPS Jedi class that uses 1 single bladed lightsaber...

    Does this seem eff'd up to anyone else?

    Catastrophe_XXVI on
    PSN ID: Catastrophe_xxvi
    3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
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  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Nope.

    Also, healer Consular uses a single bladed saber and is lightly armored, so...

    reVerse on
  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Sorry, I just saw that the wizard uses one single bladed.
    But I was looking for more of a melee DPS. I wonder if Jedi Guardian will have a tree that leans more towards DPS.

    Catastrophe_XXVI on
    PSN ID: Catastrophe_xxvi
    3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
    Shiny Code: 3837
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Well, obviously it's not going to be KoToR MMO style guys, because that wouldn't be compelling. So I've been told.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Sorry, I just saw that the wizard uses one single bladed.
    But I was looking for more of a melee DPS. I wonder if Jedi Guardian will have a tree that leans more towards DPS.

    It does. One tree is single bladed tank, the other tree is dual bladed melee DPS.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Sorry, I just saw that the wizard uses one single bladed.
    But I was looking for more of a melee DPS. I wonder if Jedi Guardian will have a tree that leans more towards DPS.

    It does. One tree is single bladed tank, the other tree is dual bladed melee DPS.

    No, one class is a single bladed tank (Guardian), the other class is a dual bladed melee DPS (Sentinel). Each class has three talent trees. He was asking about the Jedi Guardian talent trees.

    reVerse on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Speaking of that, I wonder how much differentiation we'll get between the 3 trees of each subclass. Will a class like Guardian that is supposed to be a tank have 3 different flavors of tanking within it, or will one be more of a buffer and one more of a 1h DPS guy.

    Joshmvii on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Well, one of the trees is shared between both sub-classes, and then there's two unique trees. Beyond that, I think they mentioned that for Wizards and Sorcerers one tree is the healer tree and the other tree is a caster DPS tree, but I'm not sure where that was.

    reVerse on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    That could be pretty awesome. So the shared one will be a hybrid, then maybe Guardian will have a super tanky one and then also one that has maybe more party buffs/OTing or more DPS/OT ability.

    Joshmvii on
  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Yeah, at this point we have no way of knowing what the trees will really be like until they tell us.

    We know the consular has a wizard and shadow. We were also under the impression that consular vs knight, the consular would be the more caster intensive but then we learn one spec is going to be stealth melee DPS. Really seems like all bets are off.

    Catastrophe_XXVI on
    PSN ID: Catastrophe_xxvi
    3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
    Shiny Code: 3837
  • Agent CooperAgent Cooper Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    That's what the defense stat, the various defense buffs, Knight's Speed and blaster blocking were for, avoidance. A Jedi Guardian with max Jedi Defense, a good Jedi Robe, and the appropriate melee buffs was a monster to even touch. Sure offensively it was all about flurry with duel sabers, but if you used the system right, you rarely got hit (until the Star Forge when the game just sent a gajillion enemies at you). Even then, I never once had, or felt compelled to have, a dedicated healer companion. I emergency healed with my MC as a Jedi Guardian.

    And that sounds like a compelling multiplayer game in what way? Why should Jolee Bindo play with you if you both can do everything yourselves? And if you can and Jolee Bindo can't, why should Jolee Bindo play at all?

    And probably most importantly, why pay $15 a month to play something like that?

    Man, it's cool that you just want to play WoW in space, but you can be less of a prick to people who want something different. For that matter, your obtuse statements at this point prove you have no argument other than "I want WoW in space, and if you don't, nanner nanner".

    Uh, no. I don't want WoW in Space at all.

    But that's what this game is.

    Agent Cooper on
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Well, obviously it's not going to be KoToR MMO style guys, because that wouldn't be compelling. So I've been told.

    If there were never again another D&D CRPG I would be happy. Because d20 is a terrible system for computer games.

    Captain Carrot on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    That's what the defense stat, the various defense buffs, Knight's Speed and blaster blocking were for, avoidance. A Jedi Guardian with max Jedi Defense, a good Jedi Robe, and the appropriate melee buffs was a monster to even touch. Sure offensively it was all about flurry with duel sabers, but if you used the system right, you rarely got hit (until the Star Forge when the game just sent a gajillion enemies at you). Even then, I never once had, or felt compelled to have, a dedicated healer companion. I emergency healed with my MC as a Jedi Guardian.

    And that sounds like a compelling multiplayer game in what way? Why should Jolee Bindo play with you if you both can do everything yourselves? And if you can and Jolee Bindo can't, why should Jolee Bindo play at all?

    And probably most importantly, why pay $15 a month to play something like that?

    Man, it's cool that you just want to play WoW in space, but you can be less of a prick to people who want something different. For that matter, your obtuse statements at this point prove you have no argument other than "I want WoW in space, and if you don't, nanner nanner".

    Uh, no. I don't want WoW in Space at all.

    But that's what this game is.

    And that's what some people have a problem with. They talk all about revolutionizing storytelling in MMOs, innovation this and innovation that, and then they use the same old tired combat system every MMO since Everquest has used.

    Having a good story is fine and all, but it can't carry a game.

    reVerse on
This discussion has been closed.