Options

[DnD 4e] Darkness and Torment (OOC)

1246789

Posts

  • Options
    smeejsmeej Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Yeah, I dunno if using a daily this early was worth it but it seemed like my best option.

    smeej on
    IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!
  • Options
    abotkinabotkin Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Aegof wrote: »
    While it's obviously faster if you declare that you're going to use interrupts in advance, we can use them after the fact. That's what I'll be doing to you, probably.

    And yes that was a Push--B3 is further away from A1 than B2 is, which is all Pushing requires.

    I honestly hadn't expected to be hit after blinding them, otherwise I would have addressed how to handle it sooner, I'll be sure to post potential triggers going forward (first critical hit I suffer each encounter will always have me using Second Chance on it for instance, assuming it was a damaging power at least).

    And I was standing in B1, and B2 isn't further away than B1 is, so I shouldn't have been pushable. Unless I'm just misunderstanding how Push works completely.

    I'm honestly not trying to be a pain here, I just want to make sure we're all on the same page with everything.

    abotkin on
    steam_sig.png
    3DS: 0963-0539-4405
  • Options
    AegofAegof Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    No, it's fine. I mistakenly put you in B2 for whatever reason. None of that damage actually happened at all, since the elves were swinging at nothing.

    Seriously where was my head when I wrote that turn.

    Aegof on
    I'm providing ambience.
  • Options
    soxboxsoxbox Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Alkey42: Perception helps you spot things that are hidden, none of the enemies are hidden, they're concealed. (The difference being if they were hidden, we wouldn't know what square they were in and we'd grant CA to them).

    Speaking of what square everybody is in. Ummmm... What square is everybody in? Is this right:

    A1 - Elves B
    A3 - Elves A
    B1 - Anders
    B2 - Oakhammer
    B3 - Reticulum's Spirit Companion
    C2 - Elves C

    Also, can creatures within the cloud see out? My understanding is that anybody at the edge of the cloud has clear sight to the outside, is that correct?

    soxbox on
  • Options
    smeejsmeej Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    That's my understanding of our positions. Also, I'm not sure if I would actually take damage for my reroll as I'm not sure when my resist 10 for spending an action point kicks in.

    I think the cloud blocks line of sight in and out but nooooo clue.

    smeej on
    IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!
  • Options
    soxboxsoxbox Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    You get the benefit when you spend the action point. Spending the power point is a free action that is separate from using the extra action that it grants. So you'd definitely have the resistance from the start of your turn.

    On the other hand, normally the powers that let you take damage to do something say 'this damage cannot be reduced in any way' - That power doesn't, but I'm guessing that the intention is that you wouldn't be able to avoid the damage. But that's just guesswork.

    soxbox on
  • Options
    Alkey42Alkey42 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    soxbox wrote: »
    Alkey42: Perception helps you spot things that are hidden, none of the enemies are hidden, they're concealed. (The difference being if they were hidden, we wouldn't know what square they were in and we'd grant CA to them).

    I looked up total concealment in the book and it said if my perception roll is 10 higher than the target's stealth then the -5 is canceled out until next turn. I don't think this is like shooting from a murder hole, where you can be seen but are behind a wall. This is pitch black, nothing blocking you but you can't be seen. That doesn't mean other senses can not perceive. My understanding is they are effectively invisible. If they move but stay in the zone we won't know where they are without a peception check.

    Alkey42 on
  • Options
    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    That's using perception to beat a stealth check to find someone who is hidden, which is separate from concealment. You can gain concealment or total concealment without a stealth roll, namely through the use of powers, or by standing in terrain which is Lightly or Heavily Obscured.

    They are effectively invisible, that is what total concealment does. But they are not hidden*, because they gained total concealment from a zone which creates heavily obscured terrain.

    * You can, of course, make a stealth roll while under the effects of total concealment to gain both Total Concealment and Hidden, but even had they done so: 1) the perception check would only pierce their Stealth-granted Hidden and not the Zone's Heavy Obscured Terrain effect; and 2) the zone also blocks line of sight, which would prevent said roll from even working to pierce Stealth in the first place.

    Edit, re: soxbox's
    (The difference being if they were hidden, we wouldn't know what square they were in and we'd grant CA to them).

    Is actually incorrect, because total concealment, hidden, invisibility, and blinded enemies (with the benefit going to the person attacking/being attacked by the blinded enemy) all functionally grant the same benefits since they all are effectively invisibility. So no, right now, we don't know what square they're in unless we have tremorsense/blindsight/remember-what-square-they-were-in-and-they-didn't-move and yes we all grant CA to them provided they are shooting from within the cloud. See: drow Cloud of Darkness racial power which allows a ranged drow to stand in his cloud and have CA on anything outside the cloud.

    You just can't remove non-Stealth Total Concealment benefits with a perception check.

    Edit #2: For just more clarification:
    You can’t be seen by normal forms of vision.
    • You have combat advantage against any enemy that can’t see you.
    • You don’t provoke opportunity attacks from enemies that can’t see you.

    Invisible Creatures and Stealth: If an invisible creature is hidden from you (See "Stealth"), you can neither hear nor see it, and you have to guess what space it occupies. If an invisible creature is not hidden from you, you can hear it or sense some other sign of its presence and therefore know what space it occupies, although you still can’t see it.
    Total Concealment (-5 Penalty to Attack Rolls): You can’t see the target. The target is invisible, in a totally obscured square, or in a heavily obscured square and not adjacent to you.
    Blinded wrote:
    • You grant combat advantage.
    • You can’t see any target (your targets have total concealment).
    • You take a -10 penalty to Perception checks.
    • You can’t flank an enemy.

    Edit x3 (I really need to stop): This is all pending on Aegof's own interpretation, naturally.

    Edit x4: Okay, technically from my above postings we know what square they're in, but I am not entirely sure how this interacts with Line-of-Sight blocking mechanics with respect to Invisibility. I would assume it follows the note that you could still hear it and figure out its position.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • Options
    Alkey42Alkey42 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Yeah but they are listed as blinded in the imitative block. So this isn't like invisibility, where they can see you but you can't see them, you grant CA, but they grant CA to you at the same time. Unless I am completely off the mark here. I am guessing there is a special ability to be revealed that makes this more of just a next trick that causes confusion on both sides.

    Also, perception isn't just sight, it's sound, smell, and anything else you can sense/perceive. So it makes sense to me that you could perceive the square they are in, like with invisibility, using a sense other than sight. There isn't anything solid blocking the way, so if you could determine where they are then you could make an attack, at a penalty, but not as bad a penalty.

    So if you notice someone who is invisible bump into a bench, or leave footprints in the mud, you can make an attack at -2. In this case because they are blinded, CA and that penalty would cancel out, so if I could roll high enough to perceive them through the darkness, I could make an unmodified attack.

    I think what you are talking about is if they were behind a low wall, making the perception check doesn't make the wall go away. But in this case I think it is more like they were hidden, by a zone of unlight, that doesn't block an attack per-se.

    Alkey42 on
  • Options
    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    They're not blinded, only Elf Force 1 is blinded because Anders blinded them, not because of the cloud.

    Edit: See edits above re: finding what square they're in if they're not stealthed, but that still wouldn't remove total concealment's -5 attack penalty.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • Options
    soxboxsoxbox Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So, by that invisibility text, you agree that until they move and make a stealth check, we know where they are, right?

    Also, the other difference between total concealment and hidden is that if they make an action that moves them out of the total concealment, they immediately lose the benefits of concealment (as opposed to hidden which explicitly lasts until after the action that un-hides you resolves). So, they can't for example charge from the cloud without provoking OA's and they wouldn't get CA on that charge.

    Also, it seems that nobody is getting combat advantage against anybody while within that cloud - I'd never noticed this:
    Able to See Target: You must be able to see a target to gain combat advantage against it.

    soxbox on
  • Options
    Alkey42Alkey42 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    oh right, the blinded has nothing to do with the zone. :mrgreen: I knew there was a reason you were president.

    So then it looks like perception check would just tell us what space to target, not lessen the -5 to hit, I think I got it now, and it sucks. D:

    Alkey42 on
  • Options
    AegofAegof Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    This is more complicated than I thought it was gonna be. It looks like you guys've cleared it up mostly; do I still need to clarify?

    EDIT: Guess I should mention that yes, you can see out of the zone, but only if you're at the edge of it.

    Aegof on
    I'm providing ambience.
  • Options
    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Well yes, if they move out of the cloud they won't keep the concealment, but if I was a smart drow I'd be shooting people while standing within it to get the best benefit of it.

    Unless they're melee mobs in which case it's a temporary har har move.

    But now time for turn making!

    Edit: Damnit, why is everything critting us? Also, I assume...it's our turn now?

    Edit x2: Beautiful, they're going to shroud us individually in darkness so that we can't heal or buff each other directly. That is, if the small clouds function like the big zone and block line of sight, which I'm presuming yes otherwise we wouldn't be blacked off on the map?

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • Options
    smeejsmeej Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Man, if we have any way of getting them out of that fog... I have an attack that can push one out, but that assumes I can hit anything. : /

    smeej on
    IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!
  • Options
    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    That it blocks line of sight will make ranged targetting all but impossible, similarly when trying to help our friends covered in the stuff.

    I did plan on hitting the cloud with an area attack to at least damage all enemies in there, unless folks have any other suggestions? Can't do much to help College until he saves, since my heals can't target him and my saving throw granting power also can't target him.

    Edit: Hmm, my heals could target him. Why do I always keep thinking that heals are Ranged?

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • Options
    smeejsmeej Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I got resist 10, I'm not too worried if you AoE on me. Better if it's against Fort or Ref in my case.

    Not sure if the elf has to recharge the fog power or if it'll clear up on his turn, either... If anyone's got a way to buff my next hit, I've got something like a 65% chance to knock Eladrin A out of that area right now. Least then we'd have a target.

    smeej on
    IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!
  • Options
    SaurfangSaurfang Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    The College should be able to extricate the drow from the cloud when it's their turn. Also, damn your crits, Aegof! My debuffs are feeling sad and ineffectual.

    edit: incidentally, the College could also remove some other people in the burst, although this would necessitate hitting them.

    Saurfang on
  • Options
    smeejsmeej Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Yah, extricate! Then I can push them MORE OUT.

    smeej on
    IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!
  • Options
    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Now that I have promptly stopped being silly in thinking that Heals were Ranged, my new plan was to move around behind the College, patch them up, and then cover the cloud of darkness with hordes of tiny soldiers to trip up the nicely clustered drow.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • Options
    smeejsmeej Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    And freak the barbarians out.

    smeej on
    IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!
  • Options
    soxboxsoxbox Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    You should be able to use your healing powers - none of them have 'that you can see' or 'can see and hear you' on them - warlords get those conditions on a lot of powers, but yours look fine. (because the clouds block sight, not effect, and you should only need line of effect).

    soxbox on
  • Options
    soxboxsoxbox Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I'm going to be marking (and missing) army a, and then moving to C3. IC post in an hour or so.

    soxbox on
  • Options
    SaurfangSaurfang Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Alright, everyone, let me make sure I've got this correct. If the College decides to try and hit the cloud of darkness with an area burst attack, it is not susceptible to the penalty for total concealment (which only applies to ranged/melee attacks). I'm fairly confident I've got that right. However, as the College currently has total concealment itself, does that mean that the College gains CA against everyone whom it might try to hit who can't currently see it (i.e., everyone)?

    Saurfang on
  • Options
    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Area attacks ignore concealment, yup. It doesn't get CA because it can't see the enemies within the cloud, however.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • Options
    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Hopefully that will help some. I have patched up the college slightly.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • Options
    Alkey42Alkey42 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I request that allies be shown on the map even if they are in darkness. If there is more dark to look forward too it will get confusing fast.

    Also, are we allowed to view the results of attacks against the allies in the darkness? Just wondering because the last one was spoilered.

    I am not sure what to do with the SC at this point, keeping him around the group just makes it harder for them to leave the zone. No OAs if I can't see them. At this point it is only good for giving free shifts.

    Alkey42 on
  • Options
    AegofAegof Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Part of the intent of the darkness is confusion. I'll start showing allies, however. And not to spoil anything, but check out the title of the game if you're wondering if there's more darkness to look forward to.

    I'm not sure why I spoiled that attack, actually. I'll work off the assumption that even if you can't see each other, you're all communicating well enough to track each other's movements and health through the Reticulum.
    (...Incidentally, does that telepathy have a range we should be tracking?)

    ...and yes, the small darkness around the College functions like the bigger one, just tied to a (save ends) effect instead of whatever the big one's duration is.

    Aegof on
    I'm providing ambience.
  • Options
    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Aegof, I included the zone attack in my actions as I wasn't sure if you just wanted to roll it when you started each monster turn (saves you having to wait for me each time)?

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • Options
    AegofAegof Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I can roll it when the time comes, or you can roll it in advance. Whichever you prefer.

    Aegof on
    I'm providing ambience.
  • Options
    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Telepathy on Shardminds has a 5 square range.

    Also, here's the roll then for the upcoming Eladrin Force C since I believe they're next:
    1d20+14=24 vs Reflex, Eladrin Force C takes 1d8+8=16 damage and is slowed until the end of its next turn.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • Options
    Alkey42Alkey42 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Actually that is a lot simpler than how I had originally thought. I was thinking one of the army had to be within 25ft or so of somebody else to communicate with it, but between members of it's own army it was unlimited. Like the telepathy thing doesn't limit talking to yourself. But I think the 5 squares rule makes more sense.

    Alkey42 on
  • Options
    soxboxsoxbox Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I marked A, not C (I was expecting my mark enforcement to be fairly worthless for this round, so i did a swing and run on A so they'll have a -2 to attack).

    soxbox on
  • Options
    AegofAegof Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I am better than this 90% of the time I swear.

    Aegof on
    I'm providing ambience.
  • Options
    soxboxsoxbox Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    It's no problem. Perhaps you should consider borrowing denada's style and having everybody post the spoilered updated stat block when they make their turn so that you're correcting our mistakes instead?

    soxbox on
  • Options
    AegofAegof Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I'm gonna consider that. We'll see how the rest of this fight goes first, though.

    Aegof on
    I'm providing ambience.
  • Options
    SaurfangSaurfang Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Alright gents, the College could try to use Twist of Space to teleport the drow out of the darkness, but it is not an ally-friendly power, so that would hit Mareka, the Oakhammers, and Anders. Everyone hit would take 1d6+9 damage, get teleported 3 squares, and would be slowed. What do you guys think?

    Edit: Actually, I think I might use Visions of Avarice, as there is less risk to the party involved.

    Saurfang on
  • Options
    soxboxsoxbox Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I'm fine with that, but you might want to delay until after Elf Force B's turn. If the darkness cloud ends on the end of his turn, it's not going to be necessary. If it doesn't or he can recreate it, then we're going to be straight back in the same situation before anybody can take advantage of your teleporty work.

    (Ander's army would probably want to delay also, as not being able to see anything to get CA puts a big dampener on sneak attack).

    soxbox on
  • Options
    smeejsmeej Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Heads up, there's a chance I might not post anything again til Friday. Working 12 hours tomorrow and Thursday, then going straight from work on Thursday to the airport to fly cross country.

    I'll make the effort though.

    smeej on
    IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!
  • Options
    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Everyone keep in mind (not shown on map) there's a 5x5 zone of difficult terrain emanating from B3 as part of my clockwork zone until the end of my turn, if that requires new positioning. On the plus side, the drow aren't going to go anywhere with difficult terrain and a chance of being slowed when they start their turn, so...blast/pummel em?

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Sign In or Register to comment.