because blizzard has said theyre going to nerf tanks next patch
35+15 armored for the siege attack
haha you're fucking kidding
that's insane
all my builds are fucked now. Fantastic.
No, a unit that does 50 damage across the board with smart targeting is insane.
I think day[9] was dead-on with his comment on Terran. People below the professional level should be more focused on tightening up their play than on trying to pin their frustration on race balance.
But, yes, you're right -- they've effectively gotten rid of the tnak entirely as a viable unit
I will respond to this quickly.
It is true that below professional levels of Starcraft, balance differences take a back seat to player skill. If you have more skill than your opponent, you will probably and should win. This is a correct mentality, the problem is that people purposefully ignore an important idea to justify their position of X is not Y.
Effort.
Lets say there are two players are of completely equal skill playing different races that are fairly balanced. That is to say, given any scenario by race X, race Y will be able to do something to handle it. What if what race X is doing requires more APM or mental focus from the race Y player to handle it? It just a bit more labor intensive to deal with the situation, but that player has to do more than the player who is playing race X. The game is balanced in terms of gameplay, but not in terms of player effort needed to maintain that balance.
Then replace race X with Terran and race Y with Zerg.
That's a dumb argument, BW wasn't balanced effort wise. This is how 1a2a3a caught on - everyone making fun of Protoss and how easy they were compared to T and Z. In fact T players were notorious for complaining about how much more skill/effort it took to play their race. And it was actually true as well, T and Z were a lot harder to play at low levels then P.
It was only at high level play that effort/skill required balanced out among the races. And BW is still hailed as the quintessentially balanced game, even though it's really only balanced at a high level. Thus, the answer is always L2P and not "bitch about balance".
-
On a side note, it's funny how people bitch about MMM balls and defend the siege tank nerf. You realise that's only going to give more incentive for Ts to go bioballs right? The MMM ball looks to be what Blizzard wants T to be, and everyone both hates it and agrees that it should be pushed in that direction anyways.
So what you're saying is go terran until you hit diamond.
What I'm saying is that toss are clowns.
Streltsy on
0
KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
edited August 2010
One time as Protoss, I selected a Stalker,pressed "B" and then clicked somewhere.
Almost had a heart attack.
Being able to reset the map without having to quit and load the map from scratch is a godsend.
Been practicing my 5RR macro so hard.
It's hard to fit in Metabolic boost into my build since it delays my 5th roach by 5 seconds. I probably could just delay the queen and roach warren by 1 supply to boost my drone production a little bit.
Lurk on
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I'm T right now, but I played mainly P in the beta, I'm trying to wrap my head around Z, but I think it might be better to get my macro down better with T or P first, maybe it'll be easier to transition that way?
I found the "trick" with Zerg to be training yourself to expand early and often. Unlike Terran, and to a lesser extent Protoss, Zerg don't do really well on a one base, or even two base, strategy. It's the reason harassment and area denial are such popular tactics to fighting Zerg.
lol @ someone saying Ghosts are harder to use than High Templar.
Terran players complaining about anything makes me giggle.
This is the type of comments that confuse me...
I...Im not a terran player. Im a protoss player who is trying to learn Terran better. Wait, no, im not ANY player, I play starcraft. I have to allegience. People need to get out of the "this is my race!" mindset.
Yes, it could just be that I am BETTER with protoss so it seems easier. But playing plats and diamonds, I feel like I have to micro my terran army to be successful at all, where if I out-macro the opponent well enough with Toss, I just need to keep my colossi or void rays behind my stalkers and immortals and throw down an occasional storm.
My protoss army also tends to stick together better, I dont need to control different groups seperately to make sure half my army doesnt end up fighting the enemy alone, as much.
I am fully willing to admit I could be mistaken and will learn Terran better and go "no wait, they are easier to micro." But dont blame Terran players for my ignorance. No "terran player" is saying these things. Im just some random, unaffiliated moron saying these things.
Disrupter on
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I mean, I don't. Toss aren't exactly gimped v Terrans.
But Ghosts (in that matchup) are several orders of magnitude better than HTs.
I disagree with this entirely. Ghosts are great in TvP, but they aren't "orders of magnitude" better than HT's which have Psionic Storm and Feedback, which are both amazing abilities against Terran.
lol @ someone saying Ghosts are harder to use than High Templar.
Terran players complaining about anything makes me giggle.
This is the type of comments that confuse me...
I...Im not a terran player. Im a protoss player who is trying to learn Terran better. Wait, no, im not ANY player, I play starcraft. I have to allegience. People need to get out of the "this is my race!" mindset.
Yes, it could just be that I am BETTER with protoss so it seems easier. But playing plats and diamonds, I feel like I have to micro my terran army to be successful at all, where if I out-macro the opponent well enough with Toss, I just need to keep my colossi or void rays behind my stalkers and immortals and throw down an occasional storm.
My protoss army also tends to stick together better, I dont need to control different groups seperately to make sure half my army doesnt end up fighting the enemy alone, as much.
I am fully willing to admit I could be mistaken and will learn Terran better and go "no wait, they are easier to micro." But dont blame Terran players for my ignorance. No "terran player" is saying these things. Im just some random, unaffiliated moron saying these things.
EMP functionally does the same damage as a psi storm to protoss, is all at once, and removes all the energy from the units in the area (which incidentally makes psistorm directly countered by emp)
In that matchup it's just plain better. If you can find a way to not get hosed by vikings I prefer collosi to templars, it's so tricky to use them v terran
override367 on
0
KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
Being able to reset the map without having to quit and load the map from scratch is a godsend.
Been practicing my 5RR macro so hard.
It's hard to fit in Metabolic boost into my build since it delays my 5th roach by 5 seconds. I probably could just delay the queen and roach warren by 1 supply to boost my drone production a little bit.
Are you talking about YABOT or that build order map Day9 showed off?
Cause I got both and I don't know how to restart YABOT without reloading the map!
Klyka on
SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I mean, I don't. Toss aren't exactly gimped v Terrans.
But Ghosts (in that matchup) are several orders of magnitude better than HTs.
I disagree with this entirely. Ghosts are great in TvP, but they aren't "orders of magnitude" better than HT's which have Psionic Storm and Feedback, which are both amazing abilities against Terran.
Psionic storm does 80 damage max, and has a delay, and is range 8.
EMP does 100 damage, and has no delay, and is range 9.
ghosts can move faster than 1 mph, can cloak, deal great damage to light units (lolzealots).
Every feedback prevents me from using a Storm.
I'm not arguing Templar are useless and Ghosts are unstoppable gods. But Ghosts are better than Templar in PvT (I'm seriously only talking about PvT here).
I mean, I don't. Toss aren't exactly gimped v Terrans.
But Ghosts (in that matchup) are several orders of magnitude better than HTs.
I disagree with this entirely. Ghosts are great in TvP, but they aren't "orders of magnitude" better than HT's which have Psionic Storm and Feedback, which are both amazing abilities against Terran.
Psionic storm does 80 damage max, and has a delay, and is range 8.
EMP does 100 damage, and has no delay, and is range 9.
ghosts can move faster than 1 mph, can cloak, deal great damage to light units (lolzealots).
Every feedback prevents me from using a Storm.
I'm not arguing Templar are useless and Ghosts are unstoppable gods. But Ghosts are better than Templar in PvT (I'm seriously only talking about PvT here).
Pretty much this, feedback can counter ghosts if you're a micro god, but you don't have to be a micro god to cripple a toss gateway army with emp
Being able to reset the map without having to quit and load the map from scratch is a godsend.
Been practicing my 5RR macro so hard.
It's hard to fit in Metabolic boost into my build since it delays my 5th roach by 5 seconds. I probably could just delay the queen and roach warren by 1 supply to boost my drone production a little bit.
did you make the 5rr build yourself or is there a place you loaded it from to practice it
Being able to reset the map without having to quit and load the map from scratch is a godsend.
Been practicing my 5RR macro so hard.
It's hard to fit in Metabolic boost into my build since it delays my 5th roach by 5 seconds. I probably could just delay the queen and roach warren by 1 supply to boost my drone production a little bit.
Are you talking about YABOT or that build order map Day9 showed off?
Cause I got both and I don't know how to restart YABOT without reloading the map!
type '-?' into chat for a list of commands
one of them reloads the map
Monoxide on
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I mean, I don't. Toss aren't exactly gimped v Terrans.
But Ghosts (in that matchup) are several orders of magnitude better than HTs.
I disagree with this entirely. Ghosts are great in TvP, but they aren't "orders of magnitude" better than HT's which have Psionic Storm and Feedback, which are both amazing abilities against Terran.
Psionic storm does 80 damage max, and has a delay, and is range 8.
EMP does 100 damage, and has no delay, and is range 9.
ghosts can move faster than 1 mph, can cloak, deal great damage to light units (lolzealots).
Every feedback prevents me from using a Storm.
I'm not arguing Templar are useless and Ghosts are unstoppable gods. But Ghosts are better than Templar in PvT (I'm seriously only talking about PvT here).
Saying one thing is more useful in that match up (which Ghosts are), and that same thing being "several orders of magnitude" better are quite different.
Also, Feedback is for the Medivacs, which instapop when feedbacked at or near full energy.
Also, Psionic Storm does damage to all things, not just shields. EMP only damages shields.
Im not sure its fair to compare heads up damage. A lot of toss units have plenty of health beyond the shields. You cant "kill" protoss units with emp. Storm can kill. Against an MMM ball, terran units are usually a lot more condensed, you can nail a lot more units with a storm then an emp.
Storms can also be used for fancy harass on mineral lines.
I dont deny that EMP is a great counter, but it also requires the ghost spot the HT within the units and get in range to throw the emp at it before it gets a storm off. I suppose with a great microer, EMP would always just shut down storm. But for me, I dont have the ninja skills to spot a HT in a group and kick my EMP out, shutting it down like that.
I also have trouble seeing my emp, so Im never sure when my ghost actually managed to get it off, I see the storms well.
Again, this isnt to say EMP doesnt pwn storm in a heads up PvT matchup. Just saying its not as simple as "more damage + more range"
Being able to reset the map without having to quit and load the map from scratch is a godsend.
Been practicing my 5RR macro so hard.
It's hard to fit in Metabolic boost into my build since it delays my 5th roach by 5 seconds. I probably could just delay the queen and roach warren by 1 supply to boost my drone production a little bit.
Are you talking about YABOT or that build order map Day9 showed off?
Cause I got both and I don't know how to restart YABOT without reloading the map!
type in -r
to restart.
StokedUp on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Gamertag(SSF4/MW2)StokedAidzzzSC2 ID Stoked.655 Uploaded SC2 Replays
I make it a habit of always having 1, later 2 cannons in my mineral lines.
It helped me countless times.
i find that against zerg an early forge and canon at your choke is essential. Of course, you also NEED the attack +1 upgrade.
against terran, you always need at least one covering mineral lines in case of banshees. even if its just enough time to get your reaction force there.
Being able to reset the map without having to quit and load the map from scratch is a godsend.
Been practicing my 5RR macro so hard.
It's hard to fit in Metabolic boost into my build since it delays my 5th roach by 5 seconds. I probably could just delay the queen and roach warren by 1 supply to boost my drone production a little bit.
Are you talking about YABOT or that build order map Day9 showed off?
Cause I got both and I don't know how to restart YABOT without reloading the map!
type in -r
to restart.
Thank you both!
Klyka on
SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
0
KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
I make it a habit of always having 1, later 2 cannons in my mineral lines.
It helped me countless times.
i find that against zerg an early forge and canon at your choke is essential. Of course, you also NEED the attack +1 upgrade.
against terran, you always need at least one covering mineral lines in case of banshees. even if its just enough time to get your reaction force there.
I think against Zerg I'd always put the cannon into my mineral line and never,ever at my choke. Cause of Mutalisks.
A cannon in the front can be nice of course,but I'd rather build another unit or two and just hold it.
Im not sure its fair to compare heads up damage. A lot of toss units have plenty of health beyond the shields. You cant "kill" protoss units with emp. Storm can kill. Against an MMM ball, terran units are usually a lot more condensed, you can nail a lot more units with a storm then an emp.
Storms can also be used for fancy harass on mineral lines.
I dont deny that EMP is a great counter, but it also requires the ghost spot the HT within the units and get in range to throw the emp at it before it gets a storm off. I suppose with a great microer, EMP would always just shut down storm. But for me, I dont have the ninja skills to spot a HT in a group and kick my EMP out, shutting it down like that.
I also have trouble seeing my emp, so Im never sure when my ghost actually managed to get it off, I see the storms well.
Again, this isnt to say EMP doesnt pwn storm in a heads up PvT matchup. Just saying its not as simple as "more damage + more range"
It's more that EMP is at least as good in that matchup, and the ghost itself is a nifty unit besides that especially with snipe micro
override367 on
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Im not sure its fair to compare heads up damage. A lot of toss units have plenty of health beyond the shields. You cant "kill" protoss units with emp. Storm can kill. Against an MMM ball, terran units are usually a lot more condensed, you can nail a lot more units with a storm then an emp.
Storms can also be used for fancy harass on mineral lines.
I dont deny that EMP is a great counter, but it also requires the ghost spot the HT within the units and get in range to throw the emp at it before it gets a storm off. I suppose with a great microer, EMP would always just shut down storm. But for me, I dont have the ninja skills to spot a HT in a group and kick my EMP out, shutting it down like that.
I also have trouble seeing my emp, so Im never sure when my ghost actually managed to get it off, I see the storms well.
Again, this isnt to say EMP doesnt pwn storm in a heads up PvT matchup. Just saying its not as simple as "more damage + more range"
It's more that EMP is at least as good in that matchup, and the ghost itself is a nifty unit besides that especially with snipe micro
There's no doubt the ghost is amazing in TvP, and more generally useful than HT's (HT's, for instance, aren't super great against mech + ghost, without that crazy Feedback micro)...it was the "orders of magnitude" better comment I took issue with.
also why is my bonus pool for team games HUGE
it's over 500, has it been accumulating since i started the game, or what?
also, is there a pool cap?
Yes,the pool basically grows ever since the game was released.
This is to keep points with the same value. If I played 5 games every day since release and you just started now and play only 1 game every day,you could never,ever catch up to me. But with the bonus pool,you can!
Hey guys, gotta non-gameplay related question here. Figured I'd ask here since it's only happened on multiplayer maps.
Randomly, on a few select maps (Colony 426 is the one I remember off the top of my head), the ground textures get messed up and starts showing weird, repeating hieroglyphic type symbols. On desert maps, it's a bunch of fossil textures that repeat on the the sand. And it appears elsewhere, as long as the ground is basically just one single textures (grasslands and such).
Any idea what this is/how to fix it? I asked a couple of my SC2 friends about it, and they had no idea. It's really pretty freaky, actually.
Back to your regularly scheduled tank nerf/5rr/void ray discussion.
Hey guys, gotta non-gameplay related question here. Figured I'd ask here since it's only happened on multiplayer maps.
Randomly, on a few select maps (Colony 426 is the one I remember off the top of my head), the ground textures get messed up and starts showing weird, repeating hieroglyphic type symbols. On desert maps, it's a bunch of fossil textures that repeat on the the sand. And it appears elsewhere, as long as the ground is basically just one single textures (grasslands and such).
Any idea what this is/how to fix it? I asked a couple of my SC2 friends about it, and they had no idea. It's really pretty freaky, actually.
Back to your regularly scheduled tank nerf/5rr/void ray discussion.
I saw that in an Iccup game that was being streamed. They stream on low settings. Are you using low settings? That might be part of it.
Derrick on
Steam and CFN: Enexemander
0
KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
Hey guys, gotta non-gameplay related question here. Figured I'd ask here since it's only happened on multiplayer maps.
Randomly, on a few select maps (Colony 426 is the one I remember off the top of my head), the ground textures get messed up and starts showing weird, repeating hieroglyphic type symbols. On desert maps, it's a bunch of fossil textures that repeat on the the sand. And it appears elsewhere, as long as the ground is basically just one single textures (grasslands and such).
Any idea what this is/how to fix it? I asked a couple of my SC2 friends about it, and they had no idea. It's really pretty freaky, actually.
Back to your regularly scheduled tank nerf/5rr/void ray discussion.
Texture loading fucked up. When it happens,go into Options and lower the texture setting by one,click ok,then change it back to what it was. That should fix it.
Hey guys, gotta non-gameplay related question here. Figured I'd ask here since it's only happened on multiplayer maps.
Randomly, on a few select maps (Colony 426 is the one I remember off the top of my head), the ground textures get messed up and starts showing weird, repeating hieroglyphic type symbols. On desert maps, it's a bunch of fossil textures that repeat on the the sand. And it appears elsewhere, as long as the ground is basically just one single textures (grasslands and such).
Any idea what this is/how to fix it? I asked a couple of my SC2 friends about it, and they had no idea. It's really pretty freaky, actually.
Back to your regularly scheduled tank nerf/5rr/void ray discussion.
Texture loading fucked up. When it happens,go into Options and lower the texture setting by one,click ok,then change it back to what it was. That should fix it.
Posts
Terran players complaining about anything makes me giggle.
clowns... clowns bro
edit:
only ones who can complain in this thread about balance: zerg players
protoss players shut up
terrans, we know the drill, we the best. we float 3k minerals and beat everyone. even post patch yall.
But Ghosts (in that matchup) are several orders of magnitude better than HTs.
What I'm saying is that toss are clowns.
Almost had a heart attack.
Being able to reset the map without having to quit and load the map from scratch is a godsend.
Been practicing my 5RR macro so hard.
It's hard to fit in Metabolic boost into my build since it delays my 5th roach by 5 seconds. I probably could just delay the queen and roach warren by 1 supply to boost my drone production a little bit.
I found the "trick" with Zerg to be training yourself to expand early and often. Unlike Terran, and to a lesser extent Protoss, Zerg don't do really well on a one base, or even two base, strategy. It's the reason harassment and area denial are such popular tactics to fighting Zerg.
This is the type of comments that confuse me...
I...Im not a terran player. Im a protoss player who is trying to learn Terran better. Wait, no, im not ANY player, I play starcraft. I have to allegience. People need to get out of the "this is my race!" mindset.
Yes, it could just be that I am BETTER with protoss so it seems easier. But playing plats and diamonds, I feel like I have to micro my terran army to be successful at all, where if I out-macro the opponent well enough with Toss, I just need to keep my colossi or void rays behind my stalkers and immortals and throw down an occasional storm.
My protoss army also tends to stick together better, I dont need to control different groups seperately to make sure half my army doesnt end up fighting the enemy alone, as much.
I am fully willing to admit I could be mistaken and will learn Terran better and go "no wait, they are easier to micro." But dont blame Terran players for my ignorance. No "terran player" is saying these things. Im just some random, unaffiliated moron saying these things.
I disagree with this entirely. Ghosts are great in TvP, but they aren't "orders of magnitude" better than HT's which have Psionic Storm and Feedback, which are both amazing abilities against Terran.
EMP functionally does the same damage as a psi storm to protoss, is all at once, and removes all the energy from the units in the area (which incidentally makes psistorm directly countered by emp)
In that matchup it's just plain better. If you can find a way to not get hosed by vikings I prefer collosi to templars, it's so tricky to use them v terran
Are you talking about YABOT or that build order map Day9 showed off?
Cause I got both and I don't know how to restart YABOT without reloading the map!
Psionic storm does 80 damage max, and has a delay, and is range 8.
EMP does 100 damage, and has no delay, and is range 9.
ghosts can move faster than 1 mph, can cloak, deal great damage to light units (lolzealots).
Every feedback prevents me from using a Storm.
I'm not arguing Templar are useless and Ghosts are unstoppable gods. But Ghosts are better than Templar in PvT (I'm seriously only talking about PvT here).
Pretty much this, feedback can counter ghosts if you're a micro god, but you don't have to be a micro god to cripple a toss gateway army with emp
did you make the 5rr build yourself or is there a place you loaded it from to practice it
type '-?' into chat for a list of commands
one of them reloads the map
Saying one thing is more useful in that match up (which Ghosts are), and that same thing being "several orders of magnitude" better are quite different.
Also, Feedback is for the Medivacs, which instapop when feedbacked at or near full energy.
Also, Psionic Storm does damage to all things, not just shields. EMP only damages shields.
Storms can also be used for fancy harass on mineral lines.
I dont deny that EMP is a great counter, but it also requires the ghost spot the HT within the units and get in range to throw the emp at it before it gets a storm off. I suppose with a great microer, EMP would always just shut down storm. But for me, I dont have the ninja skills to spot a HT in a group and kick my EMP out, shutting it down like that.
I also have trouble seeing my emp, so Im never sure when my ghost actually managed to get it off, I see the storms well.
Again, this isnt to say EMP doesnt pwn storm in a heads up PvT matchup. Just saying its not as simple as "more damage + more range"
to restart.
Gamertag(SSF4/MW2)StokedAidzzzSC2 ID Stoked.655
Uploaded SC2 Replays
i find that against zerg an early forge and canon at your choke is essential. Of course, you also NEED the attack +1 upgrade.
against terran, you always need at least one covering mineral lines in case of banshees. even if its just enough time to get your reaction force there.
Joe's Stream.
Thank you both!
I think against Zerg I'd always put the cannon into my mineral line and never,ever at my choke. Cause of Mutalisks.
A cannon in the front can be nice of course,but I'd rather build another unit or two and just hold it.
It's more that EMP is at least as good in that matchup, and the ghost itself is a nifty unit besides that especially with snipe micro
There's no doubt the ghost is amazing in TvP, and more generally useful than HT's (HT's, for instance, aren't super great against mech + ghost, without that crazy Feedback micro)...it was the "orders of magnitude" better comment I took issue with.
"Nice job arranging a team, losers"
"we're random"
"yeah right, get a life"
"look who's butthurt
"whatever get off 4chan you losers"
nice
also why is my bonus pool for team games HUGE
it's over 500, has it been accumulating since i started the game, or what?
also, is there a pool cap?
Yes,the pool basically grows ever since the game was released.
This is to keep points with the same value. If I played 5 games every day since release and you just started now and play only 1 game every day,you could never,ever catch up to me. But with the bonus pool,you can!
Handmade Jewelry by me on EtsyGames for sale
Me on Twitch!
Provided there is a 15% chance the baneling explodes when the tank tries to fire it, and melts the tank, I'm down with this.
on my MSFT keyboard, B is huge and i always hit it instead of C or V.
I'm about to run to MicroCenter to get a nice flat, USB, normal keyboard.
Joe's Stream.
Randomly, on a few select maps (Colony 426 is the one I remember off the top of my head), the ground textures get messed up and starts showing weird, repeating hieroglyphic type symbols. On desert maps, it's a bunch of fossil textures that repeat on the the sand. And it appears elsewhere, as long as the ground is basically just one single textures (grasslands and such).
Any idea what this is/how to fix it? I asked a couple of my SC2 friends about it, and they had no idea. It's really pretty freaky, actually.
Back to your regularly scheduled tank nerf/5rr/void ray discussion.
like seven of my past ten games have been PvP, and I'm fucking sick of it
I saw that in an Iccup game that was being streamed. They stream on low settings. Are you using low settings? That might be part of it.
Texture loading fucked up. When it happens,go into Options and lower the texture setting by one,click ok,then change it back to what it was. That should fix it.
they would do less damage (pre patch)