kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
edited August 2010
High templar may be way down the tech tree, but remember that they cost significantly less than ghosts and are produced significantly faster. Archons also tend to be more effective than ghosts that are out of energy. I think HT, ghosts, and infestors are tuned pretty well for their opportunity cost, personally. They each excel in different ways.
I use very specific keys for important units, for example, I will always assign all my Hydras to 5, because if I see something I need to take out quickly, like a Void Ray, I can focus fire very quickly, without having my Zerglings try to attack a flying unit.
Pretty sure that units who cannot attack air will not waste any time 'trying' to attack air.
If you have a mixed army of roaches and hydras and want to focus fire his medivacs by right clicking on them, the roaches will simply just carry on killing his ground army.
Hmmm interesting, I'll have to test it out. I would think that they would just start following that flying unit.
Satsumomo on
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
High templar may be way down the tech tree, but remember that they cost significantly less than ghosts and are produced significantly faster. Archons also tend to be more effective than ghosts that are out of energy. I think HT, ghosts, and infestors are tuned pretty well for their opportunity cost, personally. They each excel in different ways.
And they are each amazingly awesome, and used correctly, can turn the tide of battle in small numbers...which, I think is the point.
I use very specific keys for important units, for example, I will always assign all my Hydras to 5, because if I see something I need to take out quickly, like a Void Ray, I can focus fire very quickly, without having my Zerglings try to attack a flying unit.
Pretty sure that units who cannot attack air will not waste any time 'trying' to attack air.
If you have a mixed army of roaches and hydras and want to focus fire his medivacs by right clicking on them, the roaches will simply just carry on killing his ground army.
Hmmm interesting, I'll have to test it out. I would think that they would just start following that flying unit.
Argrax is correct. The AI in SC2 is pretty smart. If you have a mixed anti-air/anti-ground group, and you right click on an air unit, the anti-air will shoot it, and the anti-ground will shoot whatever it can shoot.
"Nice job arranging a team, losers"
"we're random"
"yeah right, get a life"
"look who's butthurt "
"whatever get off 4chan you losers"
nice
also why is my bonus pool for team games HUGE
it's over 500, has it been accumulating since i started the game, or what?
also, is there a pool cap?
Just jumped up into a low diamond 2v2 league finally. See I don't mind losing to 2v2 arranged teams. What bothers me is stupid cheesy zerg and Protoss builds where the zerg goes 6 pool and protoss proxies gateways with zealots. It always seems to happen when I am on crap double terran teams also so no recourse there.
Yes I try to block and bunker but ramps on certain maps are HUGE and I can't close without an extra minute or two of building that cheese rushes don't give me.
High templar may be way down the tech tree, but remember that they cost significantly less than ghosts and are produced significantly faster. Archons also tend to be more effective than ghosts that are out of energy. I think HT, ghosts, and infestors are tuned pretty well for their opportunity cost, personally. They each excel in different ways.
how long do you wait until you can tech there? I can get to DTs when needed, because i almost always get zealot speed. Its only one building, but you really need both upgrades there.
cause it turns all their overlords into drop ships
that doesn't really make that much of a difference. If I have 2 or 10 dropships,it doesn't really matter if I have to build them anyway. which,ok,both T and Z do. Only that T ALWAYS has drops,while Zerg has to make a concious decision to upgrade.
yeah you upgrade once and you have a ton of dropships.
can you see how these are maybe separate but equal? HA-HA
I mean sure, imba, sure, but not in every fucking part of the game.
Sorry I'm not exactly understanding your post.
So you are saying that researching Overlord drop is Imba? Or medivacs are imba?
Or what exactly?
All I was saying was that a Zerg has to make a conscious decision to go for drop. He has to say "Ok I can spend these resources and this time for this upgrade and then I will drop."
A terran will ALWAYS have Medivacs and can just go "oh hey,I just saw I could drop there. Welp,let's put some marauder in there" without any kind of pre-planning/extra resource spending.
And yes,this all reads very "easy" from me and as if I wanted to say medivacs are overpowered or something. I'm not saying that,you just can't expect me to write a super long text exempting every possible situation where this does not apply.
Terran will not always have medivacs. Its not like they get them for free. If the terrans going bio, he will probably have medivacs (maybe not because you need to build a factory first). If hes going mech, he might not (or at least, not that many because hed have to conciously make them to go for drops).
Zerg on the other hand, needs to research 2 things (which if he fast expanded, can be researched at the same time). All of a sudden, every one of his supply giving units is now a drop ship. Theres no way the terran is going to have 28+ medivacs at end game.
I think its pretty balanced. Zerg can have a lot of dropships, but if they die he loses supply. Terrans are more costly but they also heal units. I think its a fair trade.
*edit* as an example of when terran wouldnt have drop ships, lets say you want to do 4 rax 1 gas, expand, 9 rax and another gas. You now have enough gas and minerals to keep up with exactly as much as your barracks can throw out. Getting a factory screws up your build because it costs more gas, and you cant support a star port on 2 gas with 9 rax. If you get that starport, you either have to cut back on mauraders, or get the other 2 gas, which means you have less minerals which means you need to expand again. Thats basically forcing you to late game, at which point your MMM ball wont be near as effective.
I'm getting real goddamn sick and tired of delta quadrant. Why is this map on the ladder? There is no fucking excuse.
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
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kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
High templar may be way down the tech tree, but remember that they cost significantly less than ghosts and are produced significantly faster. Archons also tend to be more effective than ghosts that are out of energy. I think HT, ghosts, and infestors are tuned pretty well for their opportunity cost, personally. They each excel in different ways.
how long do you wait until you can tech there? I can get to DTs when needed, because i almost always get zealot speed. Its only one building, but you really need both upgrades there.
I haven't become completely familiar with end-game protoss yet. It's my weakness with them at the moment. I'm figuring it out. It's definitely not something you can always do the same way. I really, really do love the economics of zealot+HT forces though.
it's kinda balls how long psi storm/burrow take to research and templars and infestors need them to function while ghosts don't need cloak since they fit right into a bioball.
Hey guys, gotta non-gameplay related question here. Figured I'd ask here since it's only happened on multiplayer maps.
Randomly, on a few select maps (Colony 426 is the one I remember off the top of my head), the ground textures get messed up and starts showing weird, repeating hieroglyphic type symbols. On desert maps, it's a bunch of fossil textures that repeat on the the sand. And it appears elsewhere, as long as the ground is basically just one single textures (grasslands and such).
Any idea what this is/how to fix it? I asked a couple of my SC2 friends about it, and they had no idea. It's really pretty freaky, actually.
Back to your regularly scheduled tank nerf/5rr/void ray discussion.
I saw that in an Iccup game that was being streamed. They stream on low settings. Are you using low settings? That might be part of it.
I get that texture issue randomly and I am running on High settings. I've never bothered playing with settings when it happens to fix it, it isn't that much of a distraction it is just strange.
Delta = free protected expansion for terran and toss. Can there be a few maps that totally favor zerg?
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
it's kinda balls how long psi storm/burrow take to research and templars and infestors need them to function while ghosts don't need cloak since they fit right into a bioball.
Templars kick ass without any upgrades anyway. Medivacs? Much less useful (or dead) without energy. Same for Ghosts, Infestors, Banshees... the list goes on. It's not like a Terran player expects his Thors to be countered by Templar.
I had a game where I beat those things we're not supposed to talk about en masse. Standard turtle up and cannon on teh ramps I see it and pump an assload of marines and scout out his expansions and take them out and starve him.
Steppes of War is rather zerg friendly as you have that wide choke to your natural.
I've never heard steppes described as a zerg friendly map. Maybe zergling rush friendly, but it's pretty terrible for a macroing zerg since the rush distance is so close and all the expansions are pretty damn close to the enemy main.
Scrap Station is pretty zerg friendly though. Far rush distance, no stupid cliffs over any of the expansions, easy muta harass.
And I'm at 795 points or something now, have beaten 6 or so plats today and still no promotion. At least I've gotten bunker rushing down. I even plopped a bunker on a guys ramp effectively walling him in while I could safely repair outside and funnel marines in.
Delta = free protected expansion for terran and toss. Can there be a few maps that totally favor zerg?
Why isn't it protected for Zerg....?
It is, Ezekiel has no idea what he is talking about. A protected expansion is BETTER for Zerg, because they have the hardest time protecting it from Terran and Protoss aggression. Delta Quadrant is a great map for Zerg in general; it is big, has lots of expansions and a fairly wide open centre.
Delta = free protected expansion for terran and toss. Can there be a few maps that totally favor zerg?
Why isn't it protected for Zerg....?
Getting cliffed is difficult to deal with for early tier zerg. Although, you usually don't take the back door natural as your 2nd base on delta, so it is less of a concern. Lost temple and kulas are more emblematic of unsafe naturals for zerg to take.
Kambing on
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Delta = free protected expansion for terran and toss. Can there be a few maps that totally favor zerg?
Why isn't it protected for Zerg....?
It is, Ezekiel has no idea what he is talking about. A protected expansion is BETTER for Zerg, because they have the hardest time protecting it from Terran and Protoss aggression. Delta Quadrant is a great map for Zerg in general; it is big, has lots of expansions and a fairly wide open centre.
The backdoor expansion has a HUUUUGE cliff over though. And if the zerg wants to fast expand, he has to do it on the exposed natural because of the rocks.
Delta = free protected expansion for terran and toss. Can there be a few maps that totally favor zerg?
Why isn't it protected for Zerg....?
It is, Ezekiel has no idea what he is talking about. A protected expansion is BETTER for Zerg, because they have the hardest time protecting it from Terran and Protoss aggression. Delta Quadrant is a great map for Zerg in general; it is big, has lots of expansions and a fairly wide open centre.
Delta has it's pros and cons. While it is the most open of the current map pool, close positions have rush distances like steppes of war combined with the difficultly of the open natural ala xel'naga caverns.
I personally like delta, but an early aggressor can have a field day against zerg on that map.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
Delta = free protected expansion for terran and toss. Can there be a few maps that totally favor zerg?
Why isn't it protected for Zerg....?
It is, Ezekiel has no idea what he is talking about. A protected expansion is BETTER for Zerg, because they have the hardest time protecting it from Terran and Protoss aggression. Delta Quadrant is a great map for Zerg in general; it is big, has lots of expansions and a fairly wide open centre.
Except that you're DELAYED in getting that expo by a rock. Terran and toss know you have to 1base for a lil while, and abuse it. They lock themselves in, and nothing you can do until much later in the game to deny them the money flow. Meanwhile, if you want to keep up with that econ, you have to move to the base outside, which is totally exposed.
And no, it isn't BIG. It's a tiny map.
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
Heh heh, had a fun 3v3 just now where I managed to pull off a fun maneuver: There was this Protoss with this Stalker/Zealot mass, and he manages to see 4 of my Zealots doing a bit of scouting on the outskirts of their bases. I pull back my Zealots to a tree line where they follow, but before they get in I attack with 4 Stalkers that were hiding right on the tree line. He only saw Stalkers attacking from behind the trees, and he pulled back to his base.
15 Stalkers were scared off by 4.
Then after that followed some Phoenix fun. Those things are damn fun in a way no other air unit is. Maybe no other unit at all.
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Hmmm interesting, I'll have to test it out. I would think that they would just start following that flying unit.
And they are each amazingly awesome, and used correctly, can turn the tide of battle in small numbers...which, I think is the point.
Argrax is correct. The AI in SC2 is pretty smart. If you have a mixed anti-air/anti-ground group, and you right click on an air unit, the anti-air will shoot it, and the anti-ground will shoot whatever it can shoot.
man terran have it easy, cloak a ghost, find the templar, emp them duders
what can i do as zerg
retreat until he is out of energy then warps in more templars? fffffffffffffffff
Infestors + Neural Parasite = Hilarity. Add burrow to get them close to the HT's for more fun.
Just jumped up into a low diamond 2v2 league finally. See I don't mind losing to 2v2 arranged teams. What bothers me is stupid cheesy zerg and Protoss builds where the zerg goes 6 pool and protoss proxies gateways with zealots. It always seems to happen when I am on crap double terran teams also so no recourse there.
Yes I try to block and bunker but ramps on certain maps are HUGE and I can't close without an extra minute or two of building that cheese rushes don't give me.
oh i've done that before, fungal growthed a friend's high templar, and then stormed them
he said it was the worst feeling in the world
but i feel like i have to do so much more work to deal with his bullshit than he does mine
hes just like SHIFT T CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK retreat to your base please
also infestors are just suuuuuuuch gigaaaaaaaantic taaaaaaaargets
seriously they are so huge
how long do you wait until you can tech there? I can get to DTs when needed, because i almost always get zealot speed. Its only one building, but you really need both upgrades there.
Joe's Stream.
Terran will not always have medivacs. Its not like they get them for free. If the terrans going bio, he will probably have medivacs (maybe not because you need to build a factory first). If hes going mech, he might not (or at least, not that many because hed have to conciously make them to go for drops).
Zerg on the other hand, needs to research 2 things (which if he fast expanded, can be researched at the same time). All of a sudden, every one of his supply giving units is now a drop ship. Theres no way the terran is going to have 28+ medivacs at end game.
I think its pretty balanced. Zerg can have a lot of dropships, but if they die he loses supply. Terrans are more costly but they also heal units. I think its a fair trade.
*edit* as an example of when terran wouldnt have drop ships, lets say you want to do 4 rax 1 gas, expand, 9 rax and another gas. You now have enough gas and minerals to keep up with exactly as much as your barracks can throw out. Getting a factory screws up your build because it costs more gas, and you cant support a star port on 2 gas with 9 rax. If you get that starport, you either have to cut back on mauraders, or get the other 2 gas, which means you have less minerals which means you need to expand again. Thats basically forcing you to late game, at which point your MMM ball wont be near as effective.
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I haven't become completely familiar with end-game protoss yet. It's my weakness with them at the moment. I'm figuring it out. It's definitely not something you can always do the same way. I really, really do love the economics of zealot+HT forces though.
i'd rather 20 games on delta quadrant than one on blistering sands
it had like a lake in the middle and two paths around the lake blocked off by ruins that you could destroy
This man has wrong opinions
Steppes of War is rather zerg friendly as you have that wide choke to your natural.
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Templars kick ass without any upgrades anyway. Medivacs? Much less useful (or dead) without energy. Same for Ghosts, Infestors, Banshees... the list goes on. It's not like a Terran player expects his Thors to be countered by Templar.
How I wish I knew what made him just up and do that.
I'm noticing a trend of me being dogshit until the weekend when I really sit down and focus.
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Close his ramp as in, not even a probe could leave.
Why isn't it protected for Zerg....?
I've never heard steppes described as a zerg friendly map. Maybe zergling rush friendly, but it's pretty terrible for a macroing zerg since the rush distance is so close and all the expansions are pretty damn close to the enemy main.
Scrap Station is pretty zerg friendly though. Far rush distance, no stupid cliffs over any of the expansions, easy muta harass.
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It is, Ezekiel has no idea what he is talking about. A protected expansion is BETTER for Zerg, because they have the hardest time protecting it from Terran and Protoss aggression. Delta Quadrant is a great map for Zerg in general; it is big, has lots of expansions and a fairly wide open centre.
Getting cliffed is difficult to deal with for early tier zerg. Although, you usually don't take the back door natural as your 2nd base on delta, so it is less of a concern. Lost temple and kulas are more emblematic of unsafe naturals for zerg to take.
The backdoor expansion has a HUUUUGE cliff over though. And if the zerg wants to fast expand, he has to do it on the exposed natural because of the rocks.
Delta has it's pros and cons. While it is the most open of the current map pool, close positions have rush distances like steppes of war combined with the difficultly of the open natural ala xel'naga caverns.
I personally like delta, but an early aggressor can have a field day against zerg on that map.
Except that you're DELAYED in getting that expo by a rock. Terran and toss know you have to 1base for a lil while, and abuse it. They lock themselves in, and nothing you can do until much later in the game to deny them the money flow. Meanwhile, if you want to keep up with that econ, you have to move to the base outside, which is totally exposed.
And no, it isn't BIG. It's a tiny map.
15 Stalkers were scared off by 4.
Then after that followed some Phoenix fun. Those things are damn fun in a way no other air unit is. Maybe no other unit at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiDdTjZs3Vk