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[DnD 4E Discussion] Staff Fighter and Pyromancer essentials builds released on time!

1246761

Posts

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    abotkin wrote: »
    How do you DMs find time to actually put stuff together? My group just finished up KotS that I was running for them and I've got ideas for advancing the campaign, but particularly since our game is run through maptools, it takes an absurd amount of time to prep stuff.

    Also on that note, I was going to try and leave what to do next up to the players after giving them several hooks to follow, but is there a better way to do that than just prepping all of the potential encounters you'd need in maptools?

    Well, one thing I did was that I made two encounters that were mechanically identical. The only difference was that I made each group flavored differently. One was a group of orcs carrying longbows and axes, the other was a group of hobgoblins with crossbows and mauls. I just renamed the powers and such, and arranged it such that the group could only encounter one of the two groups.

    The other way, which is even more like railroading, is to just give them the same encounter no matter what they do. They go out to explore the haunted lighthouse? Goblin attack! They decide to wander down the road and steal from merchant carts? Goblin attack, and here's a note saying there's lots of treasure at the lighthouse! Want to go shopping? Goblin attack, and one of them mentions going back to the lighthouse for free snacks and ice-cold Cherry Coke afterwards!!

    I think you get my picture.

    Terrendos on
  • smeejsmeej Registered User
    edited August 2010
    You have to destroy the four towers of evil, which are all the same exact distance travel away from town!

    smeej on
    IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    It helps if you have a plot you're moving towards (for more linear guidance) and hazily defined objectives. You don't need to specifically stat out each encounter ahead of time, because you don't necessarily know which objective the party's going after first. For instance:

    * Cave encounter with slimy stuff
    * Nearby lava-filled cave
    * Main fortified tunnels connecting caves
    * Overlooking tower which guards over said tunnel and provides support

    All of these are inherently separate encounters with their own mechanical quirks to them, but with that basic description and theme allows you to figure "well, they decide to go after the lava-filled cave first, so let's look up any campaign-specific guards and flavour in some lava-based traps or challenges and/or fire-based monsters and how critical this area is to the main plot". Shouldn't take more than a half-hour to settle on the specifics of the encounter, though depending on if it's online/offline maps might take longer.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
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  • SkyCaptainSkyCaptain Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    It also helps to have a library of tokens pre-created with powers for your encounters or a well written framework that lets you create monsters in seconds.

    SkyCaptain on
    The RPG Bestiary - Dangerous foes and legendary monsters for D&D 4th Edition
  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Is it just me, or are we burning through discussion pages much more quickly than usual lately?

    tzeentchling on
  • SkyCaptainSkyCaptain Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    It's the accelerated development schedule for 4th edition.

    SkyCaptain on
    The RPG Bestiary - Dangerous foes and legendary monsters for D&D 4th Edition
  • smeejsmeej Registered User
    edited August 2010
    We all get very excited about the new thread.

    Also, I post too much.

    smeej on
    IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I actually think it's essentials, because it's sparked some large debates about rules that have died down from a while ago and has reinvigorated interest in 4E a bit. Once essentials is released I expect the drama to die down.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • soxboxsoxbox Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Addressing two questions that crept in there somewhere between the skill challenge debating.

    Kay wanted to know a good tool for map making - Masterplan, combined with the completely legitimate tile images from the dungeon_tiles yahoo group makes map making a really simple drag/drop affair without all the extraneous stuff that maptools brings along. Reproducing maps from dungeon magazine is braindead simple.

    I've said this before, but somebody else was asking how to make decent cardstock minatures. The answer is triangles:
    IMG_0031.JPG IMG_0032.JPG IMG_0030.JPG

    Basically, a 4 inch long, 1 inch wide strip. Wrapped around, taped on the inside and with a coin weighing it down. Find an image on google, print it upside down on one side and print a description on the other.

    If you've got time, I also heartily recommend buying some Fat Dragon PDFs and making some of those up (some of which is shown in the above pictures). Having elevated terrain you can pull out makes for a lot more fun in encounter design.

    soxbox on
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    smeej wrote: »
    delroland wrote: »
    Yeah, but to do it is something else entirely.

    Something AWESOME.

    Other highlights in that campaign:

    Being sentenced to hang in Thrane for killing a sergeant in their army (though for good reasons, they saved a changeling in the process) and breaking out of prison to escape on the 6am rail to Sharn.

    The half-orc barbarian marrying a jungle princess in Xen'drik. Who happens to be a pygmy lizardfolk.

    Tripping a megaraptor mid-pounce, Ewoks vs. AT-ST style.
    I just want to do an Eberron game where the PCs are special ops mailmen.

    You mean Korranberg Chronicle delivery boys?

    delroland on
    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
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  • TorgoTorgo Registered User
    edited August 2010
    I have a player that likes "Legend of the Seeker", which is something I know nothing about. He wants to reskin a monk to fit the theme of one of the characters on the show. Fluff is fine. He can change all of that. The mechanic he wants to add that has me scratching my head is an "anti-magic" effect.

    He wants a way to bend magic back at the NPC user. He has the Revenant Monk's power supposed to represent some of that effect, and he said that he would be building or adapting powers to make ranged magical attacks bounce back at monsters with a lot of immediate reactions.

    Is there any way to do this without breaking the game? He isn't trying to be uber, he just wants to make a particular character in a unique way. I was thinking a racial/encounter power that somehow redirects damage or lets him do damage like a wild sorcerer that is always switching his damage type.

    No way I'm going to let him use a Dragon's Breath like area attack if he gets caught in a zone or a blast. Constantly worrying about Monster damage vs. Player damage when targeting PCs in an encounter seems like a nightmare.

    Here is what I came up with.:

    Dark (Arcane) Reaping
    Those that target you with arcane magic find it returning to haunt them.

    Encounter Power
    Damage: (Variable)
    Free Action

    Trigger: A creature hits you with a ranged arcane attack.

    Effect: One creature you hit with an attack you make before the end of your next turn takes an additional 1d8 + Constitution modifier variable damage of a type that matches the ranged arcane attack trigger

    Encounter (Special): If you kill the creature that targeted you with the ranged attack power with damage from this power, you do not expend this power.

    Does anyone have any other ideas how to do this without breaking the game too much? I think players should be able to use their race and class abilities at least once in an average fight.

    Torgo on
    History is a spoiler for the future. (Me on Twitter)
  • ChanusChanus Sugoi! ^_____^Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I think as you have it written, it's pretty overpowered.

    Extra damage and reliable on a kill?

    I would just leave it as an encounter power, immediate reaction to a hit where the monk makes an attack roll of some kind to see if it hits the caster or just diffuses or fires off aimlessly.

    Chanus on
    **Winner Softest and Most Comfy Hugs Award Summer 2018**

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  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I have a question:

    My PCs are lost underground, and I want their ascent back to the surface to not just be a combat-fest.

    I thought of having a dwarven settlement who take them in but refuse to let them go, because they will reveal the secret location of the settlement. Then they can do skill challenges and go off and find some way to get the dwarves to trust them. Once they are trusted they will be allowed to carry on to the surface.

    The only thing is I think dwarves might be a bit boring. I need a race that are familiar enough that the PCs will trust them, but I can't think of any others, even usual NPC races, that might have a big underground community.

    Anyone got any ideas please?

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    poshniallo wrote: »
    I have a question:

    My PCs are lost underground, and I want their ascent back to the surface to not just be a combat-fest.

    I thought of having a dwarven settlement who take them in but refuse to let them go, because they will reveal the secret location of the settlement. Then they can do skill challenges and go off and find some way to get the dwarves to trust them. Once they are trusted they will be allowed to carry on to the surface.

    The only thing is I think dwarves might be a bit boring. I need a race that are familiar enough that the PCs will trust them, but I can't think of any others, even usual NPC races, that might have a big underground community.

    Anyone got any ideas please?

    Myconids.

    Hachface on
  • ChanusChanus Sugoi! ^_____^Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Deep Gnomes... or maybe an underground tribe of Dragonborn or Tieflings or something unusual but not altogether unbelievable.

    Chanus on
    **Winner Softest and Most Comfy Hugs Award Summer 2018**

    Blueberrywerewlf on the Sony Anime Games Box | BluberryWerewlf on the BroBone
  • ahcobrasahcobras Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I'm playing a Human Monk at level 6 right now in Scales of War. I'm looking to the future in terms of Paragon Paths, but the ones for monks seem kind of "meh." Are there any good choices that I could look at going the multi-class route?

    ahcobras on
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Goliaths? Pretty easy to say their route upwards was taking them up a mountain. The settlement itself doesn't have to be underground, just secretive and at the point of exit.

    Pinfeldorf on
  • soxboxsoxbox Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    ahcobras wrote: »
    I'm playing a Human Monk at level 6 right now in Scales of War. I'm looking to the future in terms of Paragon Paths, but the ones for monks seem kind of "meh." Are there any good choices that I could look at going the multi-class route?

    Mountain Devotee is pretty good if you're a stonefist, otherwise Adroit Explorer is good for pretty much any human. Multiclass-wise, there's Kensei as a fighter or maybe Stonefire Rager as a Barbarian?

    soxbox on
  • SquintsSquints Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Aegeri wrote: »
    There will also be another PA/PVP podcast featuring Wil and Chris
    Perkins back as DM later in the summer.

    ...when?!?!

    Squints on
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Goliaths? Pretty easy to say their route upwards was taking them up a mountain. The settlement itself doesn't have to be underground, just secretive and at the point of exit.

    That's interesting, thanks.

    There isn't a mountain in the area but I might be able to think of something else.

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • SnowdownSnowdown Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    SkyCaptain wrote: »
    It also helps to have a library of tokens pre-created with powers for your encounters or a well written framework that lets you create monsters in seconds.

    Speaking of that, how is yours coming?

    Snowdown on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    soxbox wrote: »
    ahcobras wrote: »
    I'm playing a Human Monk at level 6 right now in Scales of War. I'm looking to the future in terms of Paragon Paths, but the ones for monks seem kind of "meh." Are there any good choices that I could look at going the multi-class route?

    Mountain Devotee is pretty good if you're a stonefist, otherwise Adroit Explorer is good for pretty much any human. Multiclass-wise, there's Kensei as a fighter or maybe Stonefire Rager as a Barbarian?
    Unseen Fist from Psionic Power is pretty ridiculous.

    There are a few really good ones in that book, in fact. Depending on what you're looking for.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Speaking of skill challenges and crazy shit that you can do in Eberron, as anyone ever tried (from either side) running a Leverage/Ocean's Elven style con?

    Foefaller on
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  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I bet a Caper/Heist would go over really well with my group, but we haven't done one yet. Not on the scale that it would be as a main adventure proper.

    Infidel on
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  • Silas BrownSilas Brown Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    The adventure I'm running in a little over a month is an Eberron heist game, but to be honest, I'm a little intimidated by the notion. I have a hook, but I'm not sure how to use D&D to empower my players to plan a traditional heist.

    Silas Brown on
  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    The adventure I'm running in a little over a month is an Eberron heist game, but to be honest, I'm a little intimidated by the notion. I have a hook, but I'm not sure how to use D&D to empower my players to plan a traditional heist.

    Is it a train robbery? Because that's like the first thing I thought of when I saw that Eberron had trains back when the book first came out.

    CptHamilton on
    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    If you want your PCs to plan a heist, give them some kind of visual aid. A map of the place they are robbing or a model of the train or something.

    Now.

    Sit back.

    And listen to their fervid imaginations take over.

    They will think of a huge quantity of devious things to overcome, some of which they would have never thought of. Take the best ideas and run with them, and then also throw in some things they did not expect.

    Hachface on
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Speaking of skill challenges and crazy shit that you can do in Eberron, as anyone ever tried (from either side) running a Leverage/Ocean's Elven style con?

    I've done this quite a bit, both in D&D 4E and with other systems. There's actually a Leverage RPG coming out soon, I played the "early release trial" (it wasn't great but it had some really cool ideas, hoping the final product comes together).

    I've found that the biggest problem with Heist games is getting your players on the same page and making sure everyone has a role to play.

    Getting players on the same page requires either a very good group or a little meta-guidance. You need to make sure your players devote their time to interesting things, not stupid ones. An hour-long argument about whether to punch the guards or poison them isn't fun, and probably doesn't even move the game forward.

    For the planning / Heist part:
    • Make sure all players are following the same general plan. If one player wants to steal a diamond and another player wants to blow up a palace, things could end in a (frustrating) disaster.
    • Push the players towards making plans that matter and taking the encounter one step at a time. A master plan that takes three hours to prepare and unravels at the first plot twist isn't fun. Better to encourage players to have vague, functional plans that can respond to your scenario (and better to get to the actual game after a short planning phase).
    • Along those lines, identify phases (either very clearly or not, depending on your group) that the players move through. An intro phase, a recon phase, a setup phase, a con phase, an escape phase, etc. Part of the fun is making a plan but part of the fun is also responding to events as they happen. Letting your players know, indirectly or directly, that they need to take things in steps can work very well and helps cut down on needless speculation.
    • Assume your players' characters are somewhat competent and give them information accordingly. Heist movies and games are often a kind of "competence porn" where you watch smart people do smart things in order to trick other smart people out of important things. Is it a terrible idea to try and run past the royal guard and "make a break for it?" Is this information the rogue should know when the player is talking about their plan to run in, steal stuff, and run away? Maybe Bob the Rogue has heard stories not only of how valuable the macguffin is, but how dangerous its guardians are.

    For ensuring all players are important:
    • Create scenarios that require multiple characters doing different things. The rogue can disarm the trap but needs someone to help (even if they aren't trained). The warlock can bluff their way past the guards but needs to bring the cleric in order to identify which relic is worth stealing. Be extra careful with fighters: They tend to focus on strength and con and have a weaker skill list than any other class.
    • Time constraints are an easy and effective way to make all players important. If you need a team in the balcony and a thief in the treasure room and a diplomat in the vizier's chambers and a distraction in the courtyard, there's no way for one player with a good Dex + Cha to cover all of that.
    • If you're not careful its easy for a Heist game to fall apart under the pressure of one smart Dex / Cha rogue or warlock. Make sure to design scenarios that require teamwork--let the smooth talker and expert thief shine, but not at the expense of the game.

    PotatoNinja on
    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • Silas BrownSilas Brown Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Hachface wrote: »
    If you want your PCs to plan a heist, give them some kind of visual aid. A map of the place they are robbing or a model of the train or something.

    Now.

    Sit back.

    And listen to their fervid imaginations take over.

    They will think of a huge quantity of devious things to overcome, some of which they would have never thought of. Take the best ideas and run with them, and then also throw in some things they did not expect.

    This is brilliant. Their benefactor could give them tickets to the event and a map of the mansion. For fun I could make it an out-of-date map.

    Oooh this is going to be so fun!

    Silas Brown on
  • Silas BrownSilas Brown Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Holy shit, PotatoNinja, that is some goddamn valuable and thorough advice. Thank you.

    Silas Brown on
  • SipexSipex Registered User
    edited August 2010
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Speaking of skill challenges and crazy shit that you can do in Eberron, as anyone ever tried (from either side) running a Leverage/Ocean's Elven style con?

    I've done this quite a bit, both in D&D 4E and with other systems. There's actually a Leverage RPG coming out soon, I played the "early release trial" (it wasn't great but it had some really cool ideas, hoping the final product comes together).

    I've found that the biggest problem with Heist games is getting your players on the same page and making sure everyone has a role to play.

    Getting players on the same page requires either a very good group or a little meta-guidance. You need to make sure your players devote their time to interesting things, not stupid ones. An hour-long argument about whether to punch the guards or poison them isn't fun, and probably doesn't even move the game forward.

    For the planning / Heist part:
    • Make sure all players are following the same general plan. If one player wants to steal a diamond and another player wants to blow up a palace, things could end in a (frustrating) disaster.
    • Push the players towards making plans that matter and taking the encounter one step at a time. A master plan that takes three hours to prepare and unravels at the first plot twist isn't fun. Better to encourage players to have vague, functional plans that can respond to your scenario (and better to get to the actual game after a short planning phase).
    • Along those lines, identify phases (either very clearly or not, depending on your group) that the players move through. An intro phase, a recon phase, a setup phase, a con phase, an escape phase, etc. Part of the fun is making a plan but part of the fun is also responding to events as they happen. Letting your players know, indirectly or directly, that they need to take things in steps can work very well and helps cut down on needless speculation.
    • Assume your players' characters are somewhat competent and give them information accordingly. Heist movies and games are often a kind of "competence porn" where you watch smart people do smart things in order to trick other smart people out of important things. Is it a terrible idea to try and run past the royal guard and "make a break for it?" Is this information the rogue should know when the player is talking about their plan to run in, steal stuff, and run away? Maybe Bob the Rogue has heard stories not only of how valuable the macguffin is, but how dangerous its guardians are.

    For ensuring all players are important:
    • Create scenarios that require multiple characters doing different things. The rogue can disarm the trap but needs someone to help (even if they aren't trained). The warlock can bluff their way past the guards but needs to bring the cleric in order to identify which relic is worth stealing. Be extra careful with fighters: They tend to focus on strength and con and have a weaker skill list than any other class.
    • Time constraints are an easy and effective way to make all players important. If you need a team in the balcony and a thief in the treasure room and a diplomat in the vizier's chambers and a distraction in the courtyard, there's no way for one player with a good Dex + Cha to cover all of that.
    • If you're not careful its easy for a Heist game to fall apart under the pressure of one smart Dex / Cha rogue or warlock. Make sure to design scenarios that require teamwork--let the smooth talker and expert thief shine, but not at the expense of the game.

    Fighters would be ideal for something like "Dress as a guard and carry the rogue (via box) into area X" or "Swim through the moat, into the sewage and climb up this pipe to open the gate"

    etc

    Sipex on
    Horseshoe wrote:
    I've got good news and bad news about 6th level, That Guy. The good news is that Forbiddance spell allows you to prevent enemies different alignment from entering a consecrated area, which is actually useful! The bad news is that the only other new sixth level spell makes lunch for everybody. Guess which one the party is going to expect you to cast.
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Sipex wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Speaking of skill challenges and crazy shit that you can do in Eberron, as anyone ever tried (from either side) running a Leverage/Ocean's Elven style con?

    I've done this quite a bit, both in D&D 4E and with other systems. There's actually a Leverage RPG coming out soon, I played the "early release trial" (it wasn't great but it had some really cool ideas, hoping the final product comes together).

    I've found that the biggest problem with Heist games is getting your players on the same page and making sure everyone has a role to play.

    Getting players on the same page requires either a very good group or a little meta-guidance. You need to make sure your players devote their time to interesting things, not stupid ones. An hour-long argument about whether to punch the guards or poison them isn't fun, and probably doesn't even move the game forward.

    For the planning / Heist part:
    • Make sure all players are following the same general plan. If one player wants to steal a diamond and another player wants to blow up a palace, things could end in a (frustrating) disaster.
    • Push the players towards making plans that matter and taking the encounter one step at a time. A master plan that takes three hours to prepare and unravels at the first plot twist isn't fun. Better to encourage players to have vague, functional plans that can respond to your scenario (and better to get to the actual game after a short planning phase).
    • Along those lines, identify phases (either very clearly or not, depending on your group) that the players move through. An intro phase, a recon phase, a setup phase, a con phase, an escape phase, etc. Part of the fun is making a plan but part of the fun is also responding to events as they happen. Letting your players know, indirectly or directly, that they need to take things in steps can work very well and helps cut down on needless speculation.
    • Assume your players' characters are somewhat competent and give them information accordingly. Heist movies and games are often a kind of "competence porn" where you watch smart people do smart things in order to trick other smart people out of important things. Is it a terrible idea to try and run past the royal guard and "make a break for it?" Is this information the rogue should know when the player is talking about their plan to run in, steal stuff, and run away? Maybe Bob the Rogue has heard stories not only of how valuable the macguffin is, but how dangerous its guardians are.

    For ensuring all players are important:
    • Create scenarios that require multiple characters doing different things. The rogue can disarm the trap but needs someone to help (even if they aren't trained). The warlock can bluff their way past the guards but needs to bring the cleric in order to identify which relic is worth stealing. Be extra careful with fighters: They tend to focus on strength and con and have a weaker skill list than any other class.
    • Time constraints are an easy and effective way to make all players important. If you need a team in the balcony and a thief in the treasure room and a diplomat in the vizier's chambers and a distraction in the courtyard, there's no way for one player with a good Dex + Cha to cover all of that.
    • If you're not careful its easy for a Heist game to fall apart under the pressure of one smart Dex / Cha rogue or warlock. Make sure to design scenarios that require teamwork--let the smooth talker and expert thief shine, but not at the expense of the game.

    Fighters would be ideal for something like "Dress as a guard and carry the rogue (via box) into area X" or "Swim through the moat, into the sewage and climb up this pipe to open the gate"

    etc
    Fighters are also good for distractions. They've usually got the muscle to push big things over or break them, and they've got the survivability to make it through an extended confrontation with guards, etc. Two Defenders faking a fight with each other to draw the guards out could be a great way of clearing a point of entry.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Or, in a world without explosives, "Bruno, we need this door open within 5 seconds."

    Terrendos on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Or, in a world without explosives, "Bruno, we need this door open within 5 seconds."

    "hurr okaaay."
    *rattlerattle*
    "the knob don't work. I think its locked."

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Fighters work great as party brutes / smashers / hitters, you just need to put some thought into your scenario so their role is important and entertaining.

    If you're going for a more light-hearted / comical scenario (ala Oceans Eleven instead of, say, HEAT), having a scenario where a player needs to do something they're bad at can be really fun, so long as you design things accordingly.

    As an example, imagine that the warlock can talk past the first set of guards, but needs some extra muscle and an extra body to help move the treasure and to deal with the golem guardian protecting it (who is perhaps immune to magic or trickery or something similar, requiring the fighter's aid). So instead of "warlock lies, sneaks in" you can have "warlock lies and fighter lies but does so badly and now they have to try and cover for each other."

    Again, you need to be careful to ensure its fun instead of frustrating, but you can design encounters around what your players are bad at just as much as what they are good at.

    PotatoNinja on
    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Hachface wrote: »
    If you want your PCs to plan a heist, give them some kind of visual aid. A map of the place they are robbing or a model of the train or something.

    Now.

    Sit back.

    And listen to their fervid imaginations take over.

    They will think of a huge quantity of devious things to overcome, some of which they would have never thought of. Take the best ideas and run with them, and then also throw in some things they did not expect.

    This is brilliant. Their benefactor could give them tickets to the event and a map of the mansion. For fun I could make it an out-of-date map.

    Oooh this is going to be so fun!
    That whole "quality of the map" thing is a skill challenge in itself; streetwise checks to find a local with inside knowledge, diplomacy or intimidation to get the information out of him, perception to case the joint beforehand and insight to determine f the map you have accurately reflects the things you saw from outside and so on.

    Mr_Rose on
    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    ahcobras wrote: »
    I'm playing a Human Monk at level 6 right now in Scales of War. I'm looking to the future in terms of Paragon Paths, but the ones for monks seem kind of "meh." Are there any good choices that I could look at going the multi-class route?

    Are you a Stone Fist Monk or a Centered Breath Monk?

    DarkPrimus on
    wpyz0Y5.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I had my guys do a train heist, and decided that I wanted no part in their planning process, so as to make it a surprise to me. Some of the information they got in town was incorrect, even though the person telling it thought it was correct. But they ended up hiring a prostitute to distract the guards, and then conk him out with a sleeping potion type effect. After a few guards were unconscious in the sleeper car's rooms, they proceeded forward to do a bit of smash and grab and then disconnected the train cars with the loot in them.

    Pinfeldorf on
  • ahcobrasahcobras Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    ahcobras wrote: »
    I'm playing a Human Monk at level 6 right now in Scales of War. I'm looking to the future in terms of Paragon Paths, but the ones for monks seem kind of "meh." Are there any good choices that I could look at going the multi-class route?

    Are you a Stone Fist Monk or a Centered Breath Monk?

    Centered Breath. I'm just using my fists for melee, and shuriken for the occasional ranged need.

    ahcobras on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    ahcobras wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    ahcobras wrote: »
    I'm playing a Human Monk at level 6 right now in Scales of War. I'm looking to the future in terms of Paragon Paths, but the ones for monks seem kind of "meh." Are there any good choices that I could look at going the multi-class route?

    Are you a Stone Fist Monk or a Centered Breath Monk?

    Centered Breath. I'm just using my fists for melee, and shuriken for the occasional ranged need.
    Did you go Dex/Wis/Str or Dex/Wis/Con?

    Because there are some great PPs in Psionic Power that have minor Con riders.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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