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I identify myself as a gamer, even though only a relatively small percentage of my time is spent gaming (maybe 10-12 hours a week). I read gaming media, listen to gaming podcasts and (obviously) try to take part in gaming forums/communties when I can. It annoys me when I'm judged for enjoying gaming; it's part of that 'games are for kids' mentality.
I identify myself as a gamer, even though only a relatively small percentage of my time is spent gaming (maybe 10-12 hours a week). I read gaming media, listen to gaming podcasts and (obviously) try to take part in gaming forums/communties when I can. It annoys me when I'm judged for enjoying gaming; it's part of that 'games are for kids' mentality.
So that would be a complaint about cultures that aren't gaming culture, yes?
I assume it would have to be. I guarantee nobody in this threat is criticizing you for being a gamer.
Mendrian on
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mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
Hey, that might be true. I don't know, I'm no anthropologist. But I do know that the vast majority of people I have known - anecdotaly, mind you, I'm not trying to make a scientific claim here - that self-identify as "gamers" sort of fall into the described category. It might be some sort of sub-sub-culture thing, but they're loud and I see them every time I go to any sort of convention.
I think what you're running into is people that don't have any identity outside of gaming. If you were to ask me on the street what defines me as a person, I could probably come up with two dozen different things that have nothing to do with video games before I got around to that. I've still played a lot of video games in my time, but that's really not something I think of when I'm defining myself. It's just something I do when I'm bored or procrastinating (much like posting on this forum, actually).
I've always been fascinated by how people define themselves by hobbies. This is something that a lot of people do, but I think is far more common among people that play a lot of games. Whether this is a self perception projected out or pigeonholing by people who don't play games to easily categorize things, I don't know.
Your central point resonates with me. I defne myself by so many other things than being into gaming.
I believe people like to identify with things. It's a shortcut to self-identity. It's easier to pick your tribe from an existing group - particularly if that group loves and accepts you - than it is to devise your own identity and stick with it even if everybody tells you that your identity is stupid. You can create a subculture for anything, no matter how absurd it is, and people will identify with it because the activity is almost secondary to the definition that the activity provides.
Well, i think almost everyone wants to identify with a community of sorts and that social interaction is almost a necessity for humans. The thing that really stands out about your point though is the "shortcut to self-identity" because it ties in neatly with the "ostracized from other subcultures" idea. Identifying one's self by merely playing games seems like a way of stunting further development if the cultural values of being a gamer include antisocial and downright caustic behavior. It's lose lose lose.
Unless you're hanging out with a bunch of gutter trash, that type of stuff doesn't happen IRL in a social or sports setting.
I've heard much worse at sporting events than I've ever heard online. And unlike your XBLers and WOWers, sports fans will actually start some shit rather than just talk. Basically, it's the difference between working with a Big Gulp of Mountain Dew and tailgating for 4 hours before kick-off. Alcohol + mob mentality does so much to promote assholism that it more than makes up for the IRL/online anonymity disparity.
Is this SEC football we're talking about?
People chanting offensive things at a sporting event are similar to people throwing around such insults in an online game: there is a pretty high level of anonymity in both situations that lets you get away with it.
I was referring more to a situation where the target of your insults is right in front of you and knows exactly where the slur is coming from. Few people are willing to do that, as they know that a physical altercation is a fairly likely result of such behavior.
Modern Man on
Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
Rigorous Scholarship
I identify myself as a gamer, even though only a relatively small percentage of my time is spent gaming (maybe 10-12 hours a week). I read gaming media, listen to gaming podcasts and (obviously) try to take part in gaming forums/communties when I can. It annoys me when I'm judged for enjoying gaming; it's part of that 'games are for kids' mentality.
So that would be a complaint about cultures that aren't gaming culture, yes?
I assume it would have to be. I guarantee nobody in this threat is criticizing you for being a gamer.
Yeah I didn't word that very succinctly, on reflection. It annoys me that there is a ' it is a juvenile hobby' stigma attached to gaming, though it's a comment on people outside the gaming demographic more than those who identify as gamers
mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
edited August 2010
I'd argue that the distaste for the dickish behavior in gaming is less about gaming and more about semi-anonymity in a semi-public space and the behavior it causes then. Unless someone wants to argue that anonymity is central to gaming culture.
Can you imagine what would happen if you casually threw out a racial slur or insulted the mother of a player on the other team?
To be fair, anyone that thinks that the racial and insulting trash talk exists only between gamers is kidding themselves. You should hear the amount of shit NFL players say to each other before and after the snaps. NBA players when they're standing on the free throw markers while their teammate/opponent shoot jaw jack all the time. It has nothing to do with gamers and everything to do with competetiveness (sp?). Anything you can do to gain an advantage over your opponent is fair game.
JustinSane07 on
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HalibutPassion FishSwimming in obscurity.Registered Userregular
edited August 2010
I kind of wish gaming culture would just grow up. The inability to think before speaking and general lack of maturity is a major turn off.
The point about being self-hating is interesting because it assumes there is some innate feeling of pride to be associated with the group. I'm 27, married, and gainfully employed. Why would I want people to think I'm just another racist, homophobic, misogynist 13 year old? What positive attributes are associated with gamers? Good hand-eye coordination?
I'd much rather be identified with the more general geek culture, because at least there are some positive stereotypes to go along with the negative ones (and the negative ones don't immediately label you as an asshole).
The fetishizing of proffesional gaming. MLG is to me nothing more then a bunch of elitist shit's who ~having some skill at various video games~ think that they should have the same degree of respect that the folks in the NFL get.
Why should the folks in the NFL get any degree of my respect?
Does anyone have any Pet Peeves about Gaming Culture.
Self-hating gamers.
You like games. Own up to it. Don't try to use judgment and snark to distance yourself from the unwashed plebians who like RPGs/D&D/warhammer/WoW/anime/retro games/chiptunes/nerdcore/LARPers/whatever the whipping boy du jour is.
The schoolyard cliqueishness isn't going to convince anybody. If anybody judges you for playing games, they're going to judge you based on the games you play regardless of the games you don't.
sorry, but the fact that i have SC2 on my computer doesn't form a brotherhood or charge me with a commission to defend those dorks who wear xkcd tees and talk loudly about their latest WoW raid in the foodcourt
Strawman. The alternative to judgmentalness and snark is not "forming a brotherhood." There's such a thing as dispassionate but respectful disagreement. For instance, "I don't like Warhammer. It doesn't appeal to me" versus "At least I'm not a neckbeard who sits around in the basement painting dolls."
And I do recognize that I'm guilty of this too, but I'm not proud of it.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I'd argue that the distaste for the dickish behavior in gaming is less about gaming and more about semi-anonymity in a semi-public space and the behavior it causes then. Unless someone wants to argue that anonymity is central to gaming culture.
It's kind of chicken or the egg. Does anonymity lead to dickishness, or does the ability to remain anonymous attract people who are predisposed to be dicks?
I think its a little of six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Modern Man on
Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
Rigorous Scholarship
well to be honest speaking to my friends who have absolutely no knowledge about any gaming culture whatsoever don't even think about fuckwads on XBL; they aren't even they exist in a real sense. They think we sit in our parents' basement and game, look at depraved porn and don't wash.
EDIT: don't forget, greater internet fuckwad theory
I kind of wish gaming culture would just grow up. The inability to think before speaking and general lack of maturity is a major turn off.
The point about being self-hating is interesting because it assumes there is some innate feeling of pride to be associated with the group. I'm 27, married, and gainfully employed. Why would I want people to think I'm just another racist, homophobic, misogynist 13 year old? What positive attributes are associated with gamers? Good hand-eye coordination?
I'd much rather be identified with the more general geek culture, because at least there are some positive stereotypes to go along with the negative ones (and the negative ones don't immediately label you as an asshole).
Certainly. And while certain aspects of the gaming community I'm not fond of (the cake is a stupid meme) are still prevalent there, there are so many positive things that come out of it, that it's sort of absurd of me to cling to my peeves.
But then, this was a thread about peeves, so I figured bitching was acceptable.
Well unless we're using some kind of Victorian England definition of "gutter trash" I'm pretty sure at anything short of the country club polo ground trash talk can get pretty crazy and doesn't result in violence. Racial slurs or insulting mothers are just as common IRL as online, and just as unlikely to result in violence. From my anecdotal evidence the same thing usually illicits the response in both situations: frustration.
I guess we just have different experiences. Racial slurs or mother insults directed at strangers is not something I've encountered in a very long time, probably not since high school, IRL. I would really only expect something like that from a mentally ill homeless person or drunk or someone who is looking to start a fight (or a combination of the 3).
If I was going to insult a stranger IRL the way some people do online, I would be expecting them to fight. That's just not something that people throw around casually and expect the target to shrug off, IMO.
Well do you actually play any kind of competitive game outside of gaming?
I don't hear slurs, etc. in just day to day affairs, just in this analgous context. Also this sentence,
I would really only expect something like that from a mentally ill homeless person or drunk or someone who is looking to start a fight (or a combination of the 3).
is completely stupid. Anyone who gets angry, for whatever reason, may want to say things that are hurtful. In those situations insults to ethnicity, sexuality, etc. are all typically "heavy hitters". This is especially true against strangers when you don't actually know what they're insecure about to attack that.
Does anyone have any Pet Peeves about Gaming Culture.
Self-hating gamers.
You like games. Own up to it. Don't try to use judgment and snark to distance yourself from the unwashed plebians who like RPGs/D&D/warhammer/WoW/anime/retro games/chiptunes/nerdcore/LARPers/whatever the whipping boy du jour is.
The schoolyard cliqueishness isn't going to convince anybody. If anybody judges you for playing games, they're going to judge you based on the games you play regardless of the games you don't.
sorry, but the fact that i have SC2 on my computer doesn't form a brotherhood or charge me with a commission to defend those dorks who wear xkcd tees and talk loudly about their latest WoW raid in the foodcourt
Strawman. The alternative to judgmentalness and snark is not "forming a brotherhood." There's such a thing as dispassionate but respectful disagreement. For instance, "I don't like Warhammer. It doesn't appeal to me" versus "At least I'm not a neckbeard who sits around in the basement painting dolls."
And I do recognize that I'm guilty of this too, but I'm not proud of it.
Fair enough, but I still reserve the right to feel ashamed as a gamer/general nerd when I see a fully grown, fat adult man in full Naruto garb, walking down a public street in LA with his friends and loudly talking about "scrolls", same as I can't stand being in a book store and having to listen to two WOW nerds loudly argue about DPS calculations. And I'm not ashamed of feeling that way, because honestly those example idiots need to grow up.
I don't see anything wrong with disliking parts of gaming culture that live right up to the stereotypical, negative view of nerds. But I certainly don't hide the fact that I'm a nerd or gamer.
I agree with most of this thread. Here's a slightly smaller pet peeve of mine:
I really dislike the fact that SCII has gotten even my RL friends who haven't used this kind of language in years to say the word "rape" all the time as if it's perfectly acceptable in conversation, e.g. "Man, those vikings sure raped my colossus."
Does anyone have any Pet Peeves about Gaming Culture.
Self-hating gamers.
You like games. Own up to it. Don't try to use judgment and snark to distance yourself from the unwashed plebians who like RPGs/D&D/warhammer/WoW/anime/retro games/chiptunes/nerdcore/LARPers/whatever the whipping boy du jour is.
The schoolyard cliqueishness isn't going to convince anybody. If anybody judges you for playing games, they're going to judge you based on the games you play regardless of the games you don't.
sorry, but the fact that i have SC2 on my computer doesn't form a brotherhood or charge me with a commission to defend those dorks who wear xkcd tees and talk loudly about their latest WoW raid in the foodcourt
Strawman. The alternative to judgmentalness and snark is not "forming a brotherhood." There's such a thing as dispassionate but respectful disagreement. For instance, "I don't like Warhammer. It doesn't appeal to me" versus "At least I'm not a neckbeard who sits around in the basement painting dolls."
And I do recognize that I'm guilty of this too, but I'm not proud of it.
Fair enough, but I still reserve the right to feel ashamed as a gamer/general nerd when I see a fully grown, fat adult man in full Naruto garb, walking down a public street in LA with his friends and loudly talking about "scrolls", same as I can't stand being in a book store and having to listen to two WOW nerds loudly argue about DPS calculations. And I'm not ashamed of feeling that way, because honestly those example idiots need to grow up.
I don't see anything wrong with disliking parts of gaming culture that live right up to the stereotypical, negative view of nerds. But I certainly don't hide the fact that I'm a nerd or gamer.
Granted, I don't generally approve of any sort of antisocial behavoir which might indicate a delusional mental state, but:
Is wearing a Narto costume, innately, really any different than painting your face for the new football season?
Is dicussing DPS calculations really any different than comparing pitcher stats?
Does anyone have any Pet Peeves about Gaming Culture.
Self-hating gamers.
You like games. Own up to it. Don't try to use judgment and snark to distance yourself from the unwashed plebians who like RPGs/D&D/warhammer/WoW/anime/retro games/chiptunes/nerdcore/LARPers/whatever the whipping boy du jour is.
The schoolyard cliqueishness isn't going to convince anybody. If anybody judges you for playing games, they're going to judge you based on the games you play regardless of the games you don't.
sorry, but the fact that i have SC2 on my computer doesn't form a brotherhood or charge me with a commission to defend those dorks who wear xkcd tees and talk loudly about their latest WoW raid in the foodcourt
Strawman. The alternative to judgmentalness and snark is not "forming a brotherhood." There's such a thing as dispassionate but respectful disagreement. For instance, "I don't like Warhammer. It doesn't appeal to me" versus "At least I'm not a neckbeard who sits around in the basement painting dolls."
And I do recognize that I'm guilty of this too, but I'm not proud of it.
Fair enough, but I still reserve the right to feel ashamed as a gamer/general nerd when I see a fully grown, fat adult man in full Naruto garb, walking down a public street in LA with his friends and loudly talking about "scrolls", same as I can't stand being in a book store and having to listen to two WOW nerds loudly argue about DPS calculations. And I'm not ashamed of feeling that way, because honestly those example idiots need to grow up.
I don't see anything wrong with disliking parts of gaming culture that live right up to the stereotypical, negative view of nerds. But I certainly don't hide the fact that I'm a nerd or gamer.
But the two guys talking loudly about how the Yankees are doing, they don't need to grow up. And the fat adult man in full punk garb walking down a public street in LA with his friends and loudly talking about "80's bands".
So in short, no I don't understand why you're ashamed. Or why you hate those people at all. OH GAWD they're talking about WoW IN PUBLIC.
on the subject of bad sportmanship/antisocial behaviour in gaming vs. physical sports I will say in all my time playing rugby union competitively, I never once had someone claim they were going to rape you or, when realising they work going to lose, storm off the field early or refuse to be at the very least cordial following a match.
Obviously I'm being facetious, but the point still remains
Fair enough, but I still reserve the right to feel ashamed as a gamer/general nerd when I see a fully grown, fat adult man in full Naruto garb, walking down a public street in LA with his friends and loudly talking about "scrolls", same as I can't stand being in a book store and having to listen to two WOW nerds loudly argue about DPS calculations. And I'm not ashamed of feeling that way, because honestly those example idiots need to grow up.
I don't see anything wrong with disliking parts of gaming culture that live right up to the stereotypical, negative view of nerds. But I certainly don't hide the fact that I'm a nerd or gamer.
sorry, but the fact that i have SC2 on my computer doesn't form a brotherhood or charge me with a commission to defend those dorks who wear xkcd tees and talk loudly about their latest WoW raid in the foodcourt
Strawman. The alternative to judgmentalness and snark is not "forming a brotherhood." There's such a thing as dispassionate but respectful disagreement. For instance, "I don't like Warhammer. It doesn't appeal to me" versus "At least I'm not a neckbeard who sits around in the basement painting dolls."
And I do recognize that I'm guilty of this too, but I'm not proud of it.
expecting more from nerds than just turtling down into their comfortable subculture isn't an awful thing, feral.
i mean, these are by-and-large adults we are talking about. there's really no excuse short of an actual mental disorder for the kinds of behavior i routinely see from them. i'm not even really talking about some kind of hierarchy of nerdy activities (though i guess i'm not really discounting it either) - i'm talking about the ability and willingness to meet mainstream society on its own terms.
this is something that adults need to do, and it's something that teenagers and young adults need to learn to do.
immersive subcultures like gaming and other obsessive nerdy hobbies, juggaloism, goth subcultures, cults, etc can be really unhealthy for our emotional and social development. when we apologise for these people or draw false equivalencies between subcultures and mainstream society, we're doing these people a severe disservice.
But the two guys talking loudly about how the Yankees are doing, they don't need to grow up. And the fat adult man in full punk garb walking down a public street in LA with his friends and loudly talking about "80's bands".
You took mine. :winky:
Mendrian on
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratorMod Emeritus
Does anyone have any Pet Peeves about Gaming Culture.
Self-hating gamers.
You like games. Own up to it. Don't try to use judgment and snark to distance yourself from the unwashed plebians who like RPGs/D&D/warhammer/WoW/anime/retro games/chiptunes/nerdcore/LARPers/whatever the whipping boy du jour is.
The schoolyard cliqueishness isn't going to convince anybody. If anybody judges you for playing games, they're going to judge you based on the games you play regardless of the games you don't.
sorry, but the fact that i have SC2 on my computer doesn't form a brotherhood or charge me with a commission to defend those dorks who wear xkcd tees and talk loudly about their latest WoW raid in the foodcourt
Strawman. The alternative to judgmentalness and snark is not "forming a brotherhood." There's such a thing as dispassionate but respectful disagreement. For instance, "I don't like Warhammer. It doesn't appeal to me" versus "At least I'm not a neckbeard who sits around in the basement painting dolls."
And I do recognize that I'm guilty of this too, but I'm not proud of it.
Fair enough, but I still reserve the right to feel ashamed as a gamer/general nerd when I see a fully grown, fat adult man in full Naruto garb, walking down a public street in LA with his friends and loudly talking about "scrolls", same as I can't stand being in a book store and having to listen to two WOW nerds loudly argue about DPS calculations. And I'm not ashamed of feeling that way, because honestly those example idiots need to grow up.
I don't see anything wrong with disliking parts of gaming culture that live right up to the stereotypical, negative view of nerds. But I certainly don't hide the fact that I'm a nerd or gamer.
Granted, I don't generally approve of any sort of antisocial behavoir which might indicate a delusional mental state, but:
Is wearing a Narto costume, innately, really any different than painting your face for the new football season?
Is dicussing DPS calculations really any different than comparing pitcher stats?
It isn't really that different which is part of my central point that gaming culture is part of the same family as sport culture.
mrt144 on
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratorMod Emeritus
But the two guys talking loudly about how the Yankees are doing, they don't need to grow up. And the fat adult man in full punk garb walking down a public street in LA with his friends and loudly talking about "80's bands".
So in short, no I don't understand why you're ashamed. Or why you hate those people at all. OH GAWD they're talking about WoW IN PUBLIC.
the fat grown-up rocking the full-on punk garb needs to grow up as well
But the two guys talking loudly about how the Yankees are doing, they don't need to grow up. And the fat adult man in full punk garb walking down a public street in LA with his friends and loudly talking about "80's bands".
You took mine. :winky:
Lol sorry I'm terrible at refreshing pages, and hey only 4 minutes afterwards
Lanlaorn on
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mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
edited August 2010
I think the talking about WoW in public isn't nearly as bad as anyone talking to the room about something that really is a 1 on 1 conversation.
Why is it considered bad or shameful for me to hang out with people and talk about WoW, but it's perfectly fine when I go to a bar or family reunion or whatever and everybody there talks about sports constantly.
It seems like the same sort of thing to me. (Except that I'm much less interested in sports)
sports fans who routinely paint their faces and memorize all the stats and stuff aren't exactly a healthy mainstream subculture either.
I'm perfectly fine with labeling this sort of behavior as unhealthy; obsessive behavior may well not be a healthy thing for anybody, for any reason, and I think that's fine. I just want to make sure we're all talking about the same thing; that obsessive behavior is the embarrassing bit, not the gaming. That it isn't really the culture at all which is embarrassing, but the extremes.
Now, what I wonder is this: Does "gaming culture" have a higher obsessiveness barrier-to-entry than other subcultures? Does "gaming culture" demand more scripted behavior than other subcultures to get "in" or doesn't it? I have a feeling I already know Irond Will's response to this, but I'm curious what others think.
But the two guys talking loudly about how the Yankees are doing, they don't need to grow up. And the fat adult man in full punk garb walking down a public street in LA with his friends and loudly talking about "80's bands".
So in short, no I don't understand why you're ashamed. Or why you hate those people at all. OH GAWD they're talking about WoW IN PUBLIC.
At no point is anyone saying that the types of people you're talking about are any better. I still feel the cultural cringe at some of the cos play silly goosery I've seen walking about
What is "talking to the room"? If I'm telling my friend about the great Starcraft2 game I had last night as we step into an elevator, should I shut up because now others may overhear my nerdy conversation (*gasp*)?
Lanlaorn on
0
Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratorMod Emeritus
Why is it considered bad or shameful for me to hang out with people and talk about WoW, but it's perfectly fine when I go to a bar or family reunion or whatever and everybody there talks about sports constantly.
It seems like the same sort of thing to me. (Except that I'm much less interested in sports)
well
it's rude to inflict specialized hobby or jargon-talk on people who don't have the background or aren't interested.
so yeah it's rude
but in a lot of places - especially the south - there's a basic expectation that dudes are going to be into local or professional sports. in some places, also it is assumed that they will like/ know a lot about hunting as well.
i mean, i'm not saying that it's not arbitrary, but it's how things are, and you need to accept this. people inflicting their boring hobby on other people is going to be less noteworthy or strange if the boring hobby is very common.
Why is it considered bad or shameful for me to hang out with people and talk about WoW, but it's perfectly fine when I go to a bar or family reunion or whatever and everybody there talks about sports constantly.
It seems like the same sort of thing to me. (Except that I'm much less interested in sports)
Because no-one else is into what you're talking about? I'd be pissed off if someone was in my ear telling me about tennis in detail. I have no interest and therefore don't want to talk about it.
That said, there is still a stigma that games are for kids that pervades society outside gaming culture, which I mentioned earlier
What is "talking to the room"? If I'm telling my friend about the great Starcraft2 game I had last night as we step into an elevator, should I shut up because now others may overhear my nerdy conversation (*gasp*)?
I absolutely do not think you should have to shut your mouth. You might some stares because the subject matter is alien (heh) to the other passengers, and I think you should have to bear their discomfort as much as they have to bear your conversation.
Why is it considered bad or shameful for me to hang out with people and talk about WoW, but it's perfectly fine when I go to a bar or family reunion or whatever and everybody there talks about sports constantly.
It seems like the same sort of thing to me. (Except that I'm much less interested in sports)
Because it's a new.
Sports have been around since the Greeks. Modern day sports have existed since the late 1800s (when baseball and hockey first became organized).
Video games? The 1980s. About one hundred less years of cultural acceptance.
Why is it considered bad or shameful for me to hang out with people and talk about WoW, but it's perfectly fine when I go to a bar or family reunion or whatever and everybody there talks about sports constantly.
It seems like the same sort of thing to me. (Except that I'm much less interested in sports)
especially since by now WoW players represent an equally large if not larger and more diverse group then sports fans.
Posts
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
So that would be a complaint about cultures that aren't gaming culture, yes?
I assume it would have to be. I guarantee nobody in this threat is criticizing you for being a gamer.
Well, i think almost everyone wants to identify with a community of sorts and that social interaction is almost a necessity for humans. The thing that really stands out about your point though is the "shortcut to self-identity" because it ties in neatly with the "ostracized from other subcultures" idea. Identifying one's self by merely playing games seems like a way of stunting further development if the cultural values of being a gamer include antisocial and downright caustic behavior. It's lose lose lose.
I was referring more to a situation where the target of your insults is right in front of you and knows exactly where the slur is coming from. Few people are willing to do that, as they know that a physical altercation is a fairly likely result of such behavior.
Rigorous Scholarship
Yeah I didn't word that very succinctly, on reflection. It annoys me that there is a ' it is a juvenile hobby' stigma attached to gaming, though it's a comment on people outside the gaming demographic more than those who identify as gamers
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
To be fair, anyone that thinks that the racial and insulting trash talk exists only between gamers is kidding themselves. You should hear the amount of shit NFL players say to each other before and after the snaps. NBA players when they're standing on the free throw markers while their teammate/opponent shoot jaw jack all the time. It has nothing to do with gamers and everything to do with competetiveness (sp?). Anything you can do to gain an advantage over your opponent is fair game.
The point about being self-hating is interesting because it assumes there is some innate feeling of pride to be associated with the group. I'm 27, married, and gainfully employed. Why would I want people to think I'm just another racist, homophobic, misogynist 13 year old? What positive attributes are associated with gamers? Good hand-eye coordination?
I'd much rather be identified with the more general geek culture, because at least there are some positive stereotypes to go along with the negative ones (and the negative ones don't immediately label you as an asshole).
Mostly because it tends to highlight the parts or people of competitive gaming that I really dislike.
Why should the folks in the NFL get any degree of my respect?
Strawman. The alternative to judgmentalness and snark is not "forming a brotherhood." There's such a thing as dispassionate but respectful disagreement. For instance, "I don't like Warhammer. It doesn't appeal to me" versus "At least I'm not a neckbeard who sits around in the basement painting dolls."
And I do recognize that I'm guilty of this too, but I'm not proud of it.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I think its a little of six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Rigorous Scholarship
EDIT: don't forget, greater internet fuckwad theory
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
I think PAX is part of changing that perception.
Yes. Wearing a princess crown from when I met all the Disney princesses in Ariel's Grotto at Disneyland.
I even got my picture taken with Aurora! She's my favorite.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Certainly. And while certain aspects of the gaming community I'm not fond of (the cake is a stupid meme) are still prevalent there, there are so many positive things that come out of it, that it's sort of absurd of me to cling to my peeves.
But then, this was a thread about peeves, so I figured bitching was acceptable.
Well do you actually play any kind of competitive game outside of gaming?
I don't hear slurs, etc. in just day to day affairs, just in this analgous context. Also this sentence,
is completely stupid. Anyone who gets angry, for whatever reason, may want to say things that are hurtful. In those situations insults to ethnicity, sexuality, etc. are all typically "heavy hitters". This is especially true against strangers when you don't actually know what they're insecure about to attack that.
Fair enough, but I still reserve the right to feel ashamed as a gamer/general nerd when I see a fully grown, fat adult man in full Naruto garb, walking down a public street in LA with his friends and loudly talking about "scrolls", same as I can't stand being in a book store and having to listen to two WOW nerds loudly argue about DPS calculations. And I'm not ashamed of feeling that way, because honestly those example idiots need to grow up.
I don't see anything wrong with disliking parts of gaming culture that live right up to the stereotypical, negative view of nerds. But I certainly don't hide the fact that I'm a nerd or gamer.
I really dislike the fact that SCII has gotten even my RL friends who haven't used this kind of language in years to say the word "rape" all the time as if it's perfectly acceptable in conversation, e.g. "Man, those vikings sure raped my colossus."
It just irks me.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
Granted, I don't generally approve of any sort of antisocial behavoir which might indicate a delusional mental state, but:
Is wearing a Narto costume, innately, really any different than painting your face for the new football season?
Is dicussing DPS calculations really any different than comparing pitcher stats?
But the two guys talking loudly about how the Yankees are doing, they don't need to grow up. And the fat adult man in full punk garb walking down a public street in LA with his friends and loudly talking about "80's bands".
So in short, no I don't understand why you're ashamed. Or why you hate those people at all. OH GAWD they're talking about WoW IN PUBLIC.
Obviously I'm being facetious, but the point still remains
Couldn't agree with you more, Dark_Side
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expecting more from nerds than just turtling down into their comfortable subculture isn't an awful thing, feral.
i mean, these are by-and-large adults we are talking about. there's really no excuse short of an actual mental disorder for the kinds of behavior i routinely see from them. i'm not even really talking about some kind of hierarchy of nerdy activities (though i guess i'm not really discounting it either) - i'm talking about the ability and willingness to meet mainstream society on its own terms.
this is something that adults need to do, and it's something that teenagers and young adults need to learn to do.
immersive subcultures like gaming and other obsessive nerdy hobbies, juggaloism, goth subcultures, cults, etc can be really unhealthy for our emotional and social development. when we apologise for these people or draw false equivalencies between subcultures and mainstream society, we're doing these people a severe disservice.
You took mine. :winky:
sports fans who routinely paint their faces and memorize all the stats and stuff aren't exactly a healthy mainstream subculture either.
It isn't really that different which is part of my central point that gaming culture is part of the same family as sport culture.
the fat grown-up rocking the full-on punk garb needs to grow up as well
Lol sorry I'm terrible at refreshing pages, and hey only 4 minutes afterwards
Why is it considered bad or shameful for me to hang out with people and talk about WoW, but it's perfectly fine when I go to a bar or family reunion or whatever and everybody there talks about sports constantly.
It seems like the same sort of thing to me. (Except that I'm much less interested in sports)
I'm perfectly fine with labeling this sort of behavior as unhealthy; obsessive behavior may well not be a healthy thing for anybody, for any reason, and I think that's fine. I just want to make sure we're all talking about the same thing; that obsessive behavior is the embarrassing bit, not the gaming. That it isn't really the culture at all which is embarrassing, but the extremes.
Now, what I wonder is this: Does "gaming culture" have a higher obsessiveness barrier-to-entry than other subcultures? Does "gaming culture" demand more scripted behavior than other subcultures to get "in" or doesn't it? I have a feeling I already know Irond Will's response to this, but I'm curious what others think.
At no point is anyone saying that the types of people you're talking about are any better. I still feel the cultural cringe at some of the cos play silly goosery I've seen walking about
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
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well
it's rude to inflict specialized hobby or jargon-talk on people who don't have the background or aren't interested.
so yeah it's rude
but in a lot of places - especially the south - there's a basic expectation that dudes are going to be into local or professional sports. in some places, also it is assumed that they will like/ know a lot about hunting as well.
i mean, i'm not saying that it's not arbitrary, but it's how things are, and you need to accept this. people inflicting their boring hobby on other people is going to be less noteworthy or strange if the boring hobby is very common.
Because no-one else is into what you're talking about? I'd be pissed off if someone was in my ear telling me about tennis in detail. I have no interest and therefore don't want to talk about it.
That said, there is still a stigma that games are for kids that pervades society outside gaming culture, which I mentioned earlier
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
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I absolutely do not think you should have to shut your mouth. You might some stares because the subject matter is alien (heh) to the other passengers, and I think you should have to bear their discomfort as much as they have to bear your conversation.
Because it's a new.
Sports have been around since the Greeks. Modern day sports have existed since the late 1800s (when baseball and hockey first became organized).
Video games? The 1980s. About one hundred less years of cultural acceptance.
Give it time, man.