I don't like that section of the quote. It seems like it is awkwardly worded. I'm not sure if they're saying the West is too macho or that it's too unrealistic because it isn't macho enough.
The wording on that article is confusing me. Are they saying that Japanese game protagonists need to have older, wiser men saving the world, or is that the perceived American notion.
Either way, considering the staggering amount of RPG's that have their heroes saving the world before their sweet 16... I don't think they get to say anything about age and believability.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
How many "save the world" games are there with a female protagonist? Samus saves at least two worlds so she counts, Lara Croft might count but I haven't played many of her games so I don't know if she saves the world in one, and I haven't played FF13 but that might count as well if they save the world or whatever in it. Or am I taking the phrase "save the world game" too literally?
Beyond Good & Evil
A whole lot of RPGs (mostly of the JRPG variety, but you also have the occasional Western RPG with a female protagonist like Septerra Core & King's Bounty: Armored Princess").
They're claiming thats what they need to do to get us to buy their shit. Their 16 year olds are fine for the Japanese but not us.
This is how we get shit like gun loco.
They are using that as an example that Japanese developers don't do that maybe they should do in order to appeal to westerners. This will probably end with a cliche storm.
The best thing about it is that Slash will finally get his preorder filled.
nah, not unless by some strange publicity stunt from either Gamestop or Take2. Lingering preorder money/info gets purged from the system pretty regularly.
That sounds fairly illegal.
If they didn't they'd probably have several million dollars lingering around to keep track of, from people who forgot and will never remember and won't do anything even if contacted about it.
That's why Gamestop has the place on their website to enter your name to see if they have any money they owe you.
Edit: They can't legally do anything with money they received for undelivered goods.
Mind providing a link, I can't find it on he site
I remember it being obscure. I'm having a hard time finding it myself. I'm looking for the CAG thread that linked me to it originally.
Edit: Ok, I can't find it, but I swear they had it within the last year.
Yeah, I got a call and an email last year with a link that said "you have X store credit to use!" We even had a thread about it here wondering if it wad some kind of sham.
The last time Square-Enix tried to appeal to the West, we got Nier. This will not end well.
Think they just published it right? Pretty sure cavia made all the dev decisions. Also apparently Nier is a lot better than it got credit for being. I haven't gotten to it yet, but it seems like a solid title. But there is always gun loco to make fun of.
The last time Square-Enix tried to appeal to the West, we got Nier. This will not end well.
Think they just published it right? Pretty sure cavia made all the dev decisions. Also apparently Nier is a lot better than it got credit for being. I haven't gotten to it yet, but it seems like a solid title. But there is always gun loco to make fun of.
Hey hey, Neir was freaking great. But yeah, the "making the MC macho" thing was sort of retarted, at least they didn't directly gear the game towards the west.
Funny, most WRPGs I've played this generation let me pick whether I play as a guy or gal. They are right on the macho and experienced part. Most games that have a young hero are unrealistic to me. A hero needs to be able to use thier life experiences to help them survive.
Funny, most WRPGs I've played this generation let me pick whether I play as a guy or gal. They are right on the macho and experienced part. Most games that have a young hero are unrealistic to me. A hero needs to be able to use thier life experiences to help them survive.
That's pretty much the gist of what Japan is finally just now realizing. And yet they still seem adverse to the idea.
Unless Japan goes through a culture revolution I got my doubts they will ever change their ways, they are too rooted in how they do things. Everything caters to youth, cute and adorable types with even the guys looking more and more like women. It goes beyond gaming, when they try to copy western styles they usually fail because they try to imitate without having any real idea about why things are done the way they are. One only has to look at the macho comment to see that.
The last time Square-Enix tried to appeal to the West, we got Nier. This will not end well.
Wait... so Nier was aimed at the west, but they didn't advertise the thing over here? I thought this was just some random RPG Squeenix tossed out with little fanfare because they figured westerners wouldn't care.
Online payments firm to launch social games transactions tools and micropayments feature
PayPal, the online payments firm, is launching new developer tools designed to streamline social games transactions. This will be followed by a micropayments feature next month.
Speaking to Inside Facebook, PayPal VP of product development Osama Bedier outlined the project’s aims.
"We’re going to have an online shopping experience where you can authorize a transaction on the screen right there in the game," he said.
"Right now, if I’m playing a game, I have to leave the flow, go to a different web site, authenticate myself, authorize a payment and then come back to the game."
The upcoming micropayments feature will allow gamers to pay smaller top-up fees in games instead of larger, one-time payments.
"What I expect is to have the experience of ‘I want that virtual tractor’, then I click on it and it automatically pulls from my account," Bedier said.
“It will be like how long-distance phone calls are billed. It gets tallied up and you get billed at some normal interval. It takes all the friction out, allowing you to just enjoy the game."
The firm is currently testing both development tool and micropayments feature with several studios, with plans to launch them at the Innovate Conference in San Francisco in October.
My God, that is evil.
No more evil than Facebook selling gift cards at stores that you can use to buy shit in Facebook games.
The last time Square-Enix tried to appeal to the West, we got Nier. This will not end well.
Wait... so Nier was aimed at the west, but they didn't advertise the thing over here? I thought this was just some random RPG Squeenix tossed out with little fanfare because they figured westerners wouldn't care.
Square-Enix made 2 versions of Nier, one for the West, one for the East. The sole difference between the two versions is the protagonist.
Note, in the West, both PS3 & 360 versions feature the lower character, whereas in Japan, you get a different character depending on which system you buy for.
I'd say what's worse is that they felt the audience for the 360 (the West) needed the character to look like he fell out of something's ass and the PS3 (the East) need the oh-so-fey looking goose. Then clearly felt that a genuine Western audience would identify with fecal-face.
Capcom does a good job at designing thier characters. If only they would let western developers design the controls. Or at least offer a download that makes them not shity.
I'd say what's worse is that they felt the audience for the 360 (the West) needed the character to look like he fell out of something's ass and the PS3 (the East) need the oh-so-fey looking goose. Then clearly felt that a genuine Western audience would identify with fecal-face.
Well all those action movies from the 90's could give them that idea.
Not that they couldn't just look at the current crop of hollywood stars. Although Harry Potter and Twilight reinforce their whole young heroes thing.
Maybe the team that designed that protagonist is really into WWE.
How about Japan and not-Japan developers do whatever the heck they want and not try to be something else. There is something to be said for variety.
Dritz on
There I was, 3DS: 2621-2671-9899 (Ekera), Wii U: LostCrescendo
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
Someone in the Metroid thread said that the Japanese are terrible story-tellers, which I'm pretty sure is an unfair broad statement. I think their method of story-telling in video games is different though.
Henroid on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Someone in the Metroid thread said that the Japanese are terrible story-tellers, which I'm pretty sure is an unfair broad statement. I think their method of story-telling in video games is different though.
The problem isn't just their method of storytelling, it's more the content. Japanese games were a lot more fun before they started gearing them for every Japanese tween in existence.
But why would Japanese devs need to bother with the effort of writing difficult, complex stories and characters if what they make now sells by the millions? It doesn't sell as well in the West, but why should they care? Their customers obviously don't really care that much for those types of stories and so they have no real reason to change things up. So like Cade said, until the entire culture of Japan changes, the gaming industry centered around that culture are just going to keep pumping out cringe-worthy stuff.
Also, saying the Japanese people are incapable of writing a decent story is kind of dumb. Obviously the writers are writing what sells in Japan and largely doesn't sync up with what most of us would consider quality writing. Yeah, maybe I could write a best-seller in Japan, but why would I? It would be much easier for me to try and write one here.
Ninja Snarl P on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Someone in the Metroid thread said that the Japanese are terrible story-tellers, which I'm pretty sure is an unfair broad statement. I think their method of story-telling in video games is different though.
The problem isn't just their method of storytelling, it's more the content. Japanese games were a lot more fun before they started gearing them for every Japanese tween in existence.
But why would Japanese devs need to bother with the effort of writing difficult, complex stories and characters if what they make now sells by the millions? It doesn't sell as well in the West, but why should they care? Their customers obviously don't really care that much for those types of stories and so they have no real reason to change things up. So like Cade said, until the entire culture of Japan changes, the gaming industry centered around that culture are just going to keep pumping out cringe-worthy stuff.
Also, saying the Japanese people are incapable of writing a decent story is kind of dumb. Obviously the writers are writing what sells in Japan and largely doesn't sync up with what most of us would consider quality writing.
Well that's not just Japan. America has it's teen audience to appeal to, Britain, France, Germany, etc.
Appealing to your local market, whatever. Making an effort to appeal to the other markets, I'm not sure if that's a responsibility game developers have to follow.
Henroid on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
Well that's not just Japan. America has it's teen audience to appeal to, Britain, France, Germany, etc.
True, but the Western market generally has to develop games for people older than twelve because those are the people with the means to buy games and who play them. And since the general response to hearing some whiny teen on the internet is to mute them, obviously it wouldn't go well for Western devs to fill their games with annoying little teens.
Appealing to your local market, whatever. Making an effort to appeal to the other markets, I'm not sure if that's a responsibility game developers have to follow.
Oh yeah, I know, that's what I was saying. As long as devs are making the profit they're happy with, there's no reason for them to try to reach into other markets. I'd bet most of the griping about Japanese games is from people who remember them being quirky without being bizarre or awful and want those games back. And that's not going to happen any time soon because Japan seems to be happy with the way it is right now so there's no reason for Japanese devs to change what they keep making.
Ninja Snarl P on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
I think NA's main market is the college fratboy, now that I think about it.
Man I'm not sure western games have super awesome stories either. Where did that idea come from?
Well, I was one of the guys in that thread. I was saying that while not many Western games have great plots, they do tend to have WAY better execution on them. Kratos, for example, may just yell in anger and smolder in decidedly uninteresting ways, but you're not going to see an "OPERATION NORA...COMMENCING" moment in a western game.
Japanese game writing, I would argue, tend to have those horrendous, cringe inducing moments that western games don't have, even if they aren't exactly mindblowing in plot either.
Darlan on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
Can you be more specific Darlan, spoiler-tagging as necessary?
Posts
I actually have a white PSP Go now so I need to retake this picture.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
Either way, considering the staggering amount of RPG's that have their heroes saving the world before their sweet 16... I don't think they get to say anything about age and believability.
Beyond Good & Evil
A whole lot of RPGs (mostly of the JRPG variety, but you also have the occasional Western RPG with a female protagonist like Septerra Core & King's Bounty: Armored Princess").
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
This is how we get shit like gun loco.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Yeah, I got a call and an email last year with a link that said "you have X store credit to use!" We even had a thread about it here wondering if it wad some kind of sham.
Better than I would have expected.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Think they just published it right? Pretty sure cavia made all the dev decisions. Also apparently Nier is a lot better than it got credit for being. I haven't gotten to it yet, but it seems like a solid title. But there is always gun loco to make fun of.
Hey hey, Neir was freaking great. But yeah, the "making the MC macho" thing was sort of retarted, at least they didn't directly gear the game towards the west.
What do call Final Fantasy games?
These days?
Sub par.
That's pretty much the gist of what Japan is finally just now realizing. And yet they still seem adverse to the idea.
Well, ya got me there.
Wait... so Nier was aimed at the west, but they didn't advertise the thing over here? I thought this was just some random RPG Squeenix tossed out with little fanfare because they figured westerners wouldn't care.
This has been happening for like a long while now
Square-Enix made 2 versions of Nier, one for the West, one for the East. The sole difference between the two versions is the protagonist.
Note, in the West, both PS3 & 360 versions feature the lower character, whereas in Japan, you get a different character depending on which system you buy for.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
I'm not even sure which is worse
Edit - That looks like Nick Nolte's arrest photo.
I'd say what's worse is that they felt the audience for the 360 (the West) needed the character to look like he fell out of something's ass and the PS3 (the East) need the oh-so-fey looking goose. Then clearly felt that a genuine Western audience would identify with fecal-face.
Well all those action movies from the 90's could give them that idea.
Not that they couldn't just look at the current crop of hollywood stars. Although Harry Potter and Twilight reinforce their whole young heroes thing.
Maybe the team that designed that protagonist is really into WWE.
Cooler than the black PSP, you mean. Racist.
The problem I have with this statement is that "black" people are really "brown".
And to be fair my DSiXL is Brown.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
Such as how there is a rainbow of pigment shades from pure white to pure black? Yup, not a good discussion for this thread.
The problem isn't just their method of storytelling, it's more the content. Japanese games were a lot more fun before they started gearing them for every Japanese tween in existence.
But why would Japanese devs need to bother with the effort of writing difficult, complex stories and characters if what they make now sells by the millions? It doesn't sell as well in the West, but why should they care? Their customers obviously don't really care that much for those types of stories and so they have no real reason to change things up. So like Cade said, until the entire culture of Japan changes, the gaming industry centered around that culture are just going to keep pumping out cringe-worthy stuff.
Also, saying the Japanese people are incapable of writing a decent story is kind of dumb. Obviously the writers are writing what sells in Japan and largely doesn't sync up with what most of us would consider quality writing. Yeah, maybe I could write a best-seller in Japan, but why would I? It would be much easier for me to try and write one here.
Well that's not just Japan. America has it's teen audience to appeal to, Britain, France, Germany, etc.
Appealing to your local market, whatever. Making an effort to appeal to the other markets, I'm not sure if that's a responsibility game developers have to follow.
True, but the Western market generally has to develop games for people older than twelve because those are the people with the means to buy games and who play them. And since the general response to hearing some whiny teen on the internet is to mute them, obviously it wouldn't go well for Western devs to fill their games with annoying little teens.
Oh yeah, I know, that's what I was saying. As long as devs are making the profit they're happy with, there's no reason for them to try to reach into other markets. I'd bet most of the griping about Japanese games is from people who remember them being quirky without being bizarre or awful and want those games back. And that's not going to happen any time soon because Japan seems to be happy with the way it is right now so there's no reason for Japanese devs to change what they keep making.
Japanese game writing, I would argue, tend to have those horrendous, cringe inducing moments that western games don't have, even if they aren't exactly mindblowing in plot either.