Can you be more specific Darlan, spoiler-tagging as necessary?
If you're talking about the OPERATION NORA bit, I was referring to a part in FFXIII where a character nicknames a personal goal of his and really, really awkwardly proclaims that sentence in a manner that makes it hard to keep playing the game and still have any self respect whatsoever.
Eastern and western games both have pretty terrible writing. Both manage occasional exceptions (for Japan, see Silent Hill 2, Nocturne)
I wouldn't say either really tends to outdo the other.
Can you be more specific Darlan, spoiler-tagging as necessary?
If you're talking about the OPERATION NORA bit, I was referring to a part in FFXIII where a character nicknames a personal goal of his and really, really awkwardly proclaims that sentence in a manner that makes it hard to keep playing the game and still have any self respect whatsoever.
I didn't mean specifically that, but that sorta helps. Well... except I'm confused as to how that's a Japanese thing and not a bad-writing thing.
What I'm asking is (specifically) how Japanese developers portray a story vs. North American developers. Like if they had the same plot, what would the Japanese do differently from NA?
Wasn't worse than the laugh from FFX. Honestly I felt like it was supposed to be cheesy.
How is this a Japanese thing and not a bad-writing thing? (if that's what you're getting at)
Nah I wasn't saying it was a Japanese thing, just defending FF13. :P
urahonky on
0
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
“Our publisher heard today that GameStop will not be selling Intellivision Lives! for DS. They say that the 30-somethings that shop there ;may find it appealing’ but apparently they don’t feel it is for their target (younger) clientele. As soon as we hear, we’ll let you know what decent, upright, quality stores will be carrying it.” - Intellivision Facebook page
“Our publisher heard today that GameStop will not be selling Intellivision Lives! for DS. They say that the 30-somethings that shop there ;may find it appealing’ but apparently they don’t feel it is for their target (younger) clientele. As soon as we hear, we’ll let you know what decent, upright, quality stores will be carrying it.” - Intellivision Facebook page
O_o
Gamestop are jerks.
Can't say that I blame them. If I ran a videogame store, I wouldn't carry Intellivision Lives! DS either - way too niche.
Pretty hard to say whether a Japanese game has bad writing or just a bad localization unless you're fluent in Japanese.
That's half-true. I think no matter the localization used, you can tell if something had the same tone in the Japanese version or not.
Watching the Cowboy Bebop movie, I noticed right away that the English subtitles and the English voice acting didn't match at all. So I watched the movie with both on, and I decided that the subtitles were a direct-translation of the Japanese writing. There's a lot of talk about "another world" in the Japanese text, but in the English voice work they talk about dreams. There's talk about evil spirits and shit when they're investigating what's killing people at the hospital in the Japanese wording, but in the English voice acting they go into more real possibilities.
So maybe the Japanese like mystery and the unexplained / dramatic stuff more. Or just have a different way of dealing with it.
Henroid on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
“Our publisher heard today that GameStop will not be selling Intellivision Lives! for DS. They say that the 30-somethings that shop there ;may find it appealing’ but apparently they don’t feel it is for their target (younger) clientele. As soon as we hear, we’ll let you know what decent, upright, quality stores will be carrying it.” - Intellivision Facebook page
O_o
Gamestop are jerks.
Can't say that I blame them. If I ran a videogame store, I wouldn't carry Intellivision Lives! DS either - way too niche.
Oh and Etrian Odyssey wasn't a niche title for the same platform?
This is bullshit, dude.
Henroid on
0
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
“Our publisher heard today that GameStop will not be selling Intellivision Lives! for DS. They say that the 30-somethings that shop there ;may find it appealing’ but apparently they don’t feel it is for their target (younger) clientele. As soon as we hear, we’ll let you know what decent, upright, quality stores will be carrying it.” - Intellivision Facebook page
O_o
Gamestop are jerks.
Can't say that I blame them. If I ran a videogame store, I wouldn't carry Intellivision Lives! DS either - way too niche.
Oh and Etrian Odyssey wasn't a niche title for the same platform?
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
"A lot of people think it’s weird that I’m doing a Mickey Mouse game after doing all those Ultima games, and System Shock, and Deus Ex and all that. But from a gameplay standpoint I think players of those games will find a lot that’s familiar and appealing here. This is my twentieth game, and every game I’ve done has been about choice and consequence. It’s all about new ways to express the idea that play style matters, and about it being players that get to be creative and not even... well, me. So from a gameplay standpoint it’s right up my alley, and even from a content standpoint. In the tabletop world, when I was working at Steve Jackson games and TSR, I did Toon the Cartoon Role-Playing game; I did the Rocky and Bullwinkle Party Role-Playing Game; I wrote my master’s thesis on cartoons. It was only when I got into electronic games that I became the guy that makes steampunk, dystopic future kind of stuff. This is absolutely a natural progression for me -- at least from my perspective." - Warren Spector
“Our publisher heard today that GameStop will not be selling Intellivision Lives! for DS. They say that the 30-somethings that shop there ;may find it appealing’ but apparently they don’t feel it is for their target (younger) clientele. As soon as we hear, we’ll let you know what decent, upright, quality stores will be carrying it.” - Intellivision Facebook page
O_o
Gamestop are jerks.
Can't say that I blame them. If I ran a videogame store, I wouldn't carry Intellivision Lives! DS either - way too niche.
Oh and Etrian Odyssey wasn't a niche title for the same platform?
This is bullshit, dude.
It took me weeks of searching to find EO1.
Eventually I did find it, at my local Gamestop to boot. It was the first place I searched.
They had one copy and three employees had taken it out. It was the only new game I've ever purchased with a save on it. :P
Xenogears of Bore on
3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
So Warren Spector feels he's the right man for the job, alright!
Henroid on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Pretty hard to say whether a Japanese game has bad writing or just a bad localization unless you're fluent in Japanese.
That's half-true. I think no matter the localization used, you can tell if something had the same tone in the Japanese version or not.
Watching the Cowboy Bebop movie, I noticed right away that the English subtitles and the English voice acting didn't match at all. So I watched the movie with both on, and I decided that the subtitles were a direct-translation of the Japanese writing. There's a lot of talk about "another world" in the Japanese text, but in the English voice work they talk about dreams. There's talk about evil spirits and shit when they're investigating what's killing people at the hospital in the Japanese wording, but in the English voice acting they go into more real possibilities.
So maybe the Japanese like mystery and the unexplained / dramatic stuff more. Or just have a different way of dealing with it.
This kind of reminds me of Final Fantasy: Spirits Within.
I remember they talked about how it mixed western story telling with Japanese sensibilities. The line was close to that anyways, well those Japanese sensibilities almost drove Square right into the ground and was the reason why the hurried up to make FF X-2 for some quick cash which they needed badly after that disaster.
Yeah it wasn't a game but again the Japanese sensibilities didn't exactly cater to many out side of Japan in that case.
They had one copy and three employees had taken it out. It was the only new game I've ever purchased with a save on it. :P
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
I seriously fucking hate the shit Gamestop does with new games. REMOVING THE SHRINK-WRAP MAKES IT NOT-NEW GODDAMN IT.
It was the only way I was going to play that game any time soon. It was back ordered at most online retailers that carried it. Also I knew most of the people at that store and was pretty cool about it.
I will not normally buy any NEW game that has been opened like that but I made an exception for a very rare game.
Xenogears of Bore on
3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
"A lot of people think it’s weird that I’m doing a Mickey Mouse game after doing all those Ultima games, and System Shock, and Deus Ex and all that. But from a gameplay standpoint I think players of those games will find a lot that’s familiar and appealing here. This is my twentieth game, and every game I’ve done has been about choice and consequence. It’s all about new ways to express the idea that play style matters, and about it being players that get to be creative and not even... well, me. So from a gameplay standpoint it’s right up my alley, and even from a content standpoint. In the tabletop world, when I was working at Steve Jackson games and TSR, I did Toon the Cartoon Role-Playing game; I did the Rocky and Bullwinkle Party Role-Playing Game; I wrote my master’s thesis on cartoons. It was only when I got into electronic games that I became the guy that makes steampunk, dystopic future kind of stuff. This is absolutely a natural progression for me -- at least from my perspective." - Warren Spector
Everything I see about this game makes me want a Wii.
Wasn't worse than the laugh from FFX. Honestly I felt like it was supposed to be cheesy.
How is this a Japanese thing and not a bad-writing thing? (if that's what you're getting at)
I'm arguing that Japanese games characteristicly have moments that dip into utter, blinding stupidity, like when Samus in Other M takes the time to tell us that a particular kind of distress signal's purpose is to get attention, or when the main female in Valkria Chronicles, when told by the protagonist that he want to contribute to the war in a nonviolent way, remarks that "Wow, that's deep."
The kind of bad writing you tend to find in western games, I would argue, is at least is consistent in execution: we may roll our eyes at Marcus Fenix's overly macho mannerisms, or Krato's constant wish to kill everything, or even say, Paxton Fettle's (FEAR1's bad guy) generic bad guy qualities, but you don't see those concentrated OPERATION NORA facepalm moments in western games like you do in Japanese games.
Edit: I should mention again that I'm not saying all Japanese are terrible storytellers, like I mentioned in the Other M thread, I'm a big Murakami fan, for example. Just that Japanese games, or possibly their localizations, have these qualities.
I'm arguing that Japanese games characteristicly have moments that dip into utter, blinding stupidity, like when Samus in Other M takes the time to tell us that a particular kind of distress signal's purpose is to get attention, or when the main female in Valkria Chronicles, when told by the protagonist that he want to contribute to the war in a nonviolent way, remarks that "Wow, that's deep."
The kind of bad writing you tend to find in western games, I would argue, at least is consistent in execution: we may roll his eyes at Marcus Fenix's overly macho mannerisms, or Krato's constant wish to kill everything, or even say, Paxton Fettle's (FEAR1's bad guy) genric bad guy qualities, but you don't see those concentrated OPERATION NORA moments in western games like you do in Japanese games.
I'm still just seeing it as good writing vs. bad, and not regional differences. In all the above cases it's bad writing.
or even say, Paxton Fettle's (FEAR1's bad guy) generic bad guy qualities, but you don't see those concentrated OPERATION NORA facepalm moments in western games like you do in Japanese games.
Is this real?
Did someone seriously name the villain of their game Paxton Fettle?
You can't take a villain seriously with a name like Paxton Fettle.
I'm arguing that Japanese games characteristicly have moments that dip into utter, blinding stupidity, like when Samus in Other M takes the time to tell us that a particular kind of distress signal's purpose is to get attention, or when the main female in Valkria Chronicles, when told by the protagonist that he want to contribute to the war in a nonviolent way, remarks that "Wow, that's deep."
The kind of bad writing you tend to find in western games, I would argue, at least is consistent in execution: we may roll his eyes at Marcus Fenix's overly macho mannerisms, or Krato's constant wish to kill everything, or even say, Paxton Fettle's (FEAR1's bad guy) genric bad guy qualities, but you don't see those concentrated OPERATION NORA moments in western games like you do in Japanese games.
I'm still just seeing it as good writing vs. bad, and not regional differences. In all the above cases it's bad writing.
I'm not sure how to demonstrate this being a regional thing sort of going over the writing styles of every western and Japanese game recently released. It's how the situation strikes me, and not how it strikes you. Agree to disagree, I guess.
The kind of bad writing you tend to find in western games, I would argue, is at least is consistent in execution: we may roll his eyes at Marcus Fenix's overly macho mannerisms, or Krato's constant wish to kill everything, or even say, Paxton Fettle's (FEAR1's bad guy) generic bad guy qualities, but you don't see those concentrated OPERATION NORA facepalm moments in western games like you do in Japanese games.
I quit playing Alan Wake specifically because of the terrible writing. I understand that it was trying to set a narrative style, but to me it simply came off amateurish, and to be honest, stupid.
It was hilarious when I could hear an enemy screaming at me and Alan would immediately say, "I could hear Bob screaming at me from the forest."
Though as mentioned above, bad writing is bad writing.
Man was Winback a blast to play through with the voice acting. Fucking hilarious.
Sheep on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
“Our publisher heard today that GameStop will not be selling Intellivision Lives! for DS. They say that the 30-somethings that shop there ;may find it appealing’ but apparently they don’t feel it is for their target (younger) clientele. As soon as we hear, we’ll let you know what decent, upright, quality stores will be carrying it.” - Intellivision Facebook page
O_o
Gamestop are jerks.
Can't say that I blame them. If I ran a videogame store, I wouldn't carry Intellivision Lives! DS either - way too niche.
Oh and Etrian Odyssey wasn't a niche title for the same platform?
This is bullshit, dude.
There's a big difference in degree between a well done RPG compared to a compilation of games from a 30 year old system that sold about a tenth what the market leader sold at the time.
Who here is actually planning on buying Intellivision Lives DS? I imagine it's a tiny fraction of the number of people who bought Etrian Odyssey.
The last time Square-Enix tried to appeal to the West, we got Nier. This will not end well.
Wait... so Nier was aimed at the west, but they didn't advertise the thing over here? I thought this was just some random RPG Squeenix tossed out with little fanfare because they figured westerners wouldn't care.
Square-Enix made 2 versions of Nier, one for the West, one for the East. The sole difference between the two versions is the protagonist.
Note, in the West, both PS3 & 360 versions feature the lower character, whereas in Japan, you get a different character depending on which system you buy for.
I... UGH. Both of those look horrible, in a way that would make me think they're both obscene parodies of eastern and western design.
Can you be more specific Darlan, spoiler-tagging as necessary?
If you're talking about the OPERATION NORA bit, I was referring to a part in FFXIII where a character nicknames a personal goal of his and really, really awkwardly proclaims that sentence in a manner that makes it hard to keep playing the game and still have any self respect whatsoever.
I've long since lost any desire to play FF13, so could you tell me what he actually says?
Meh, I would rather give Amazon my money than Gamestop anyways. :P
Hearing this game is going to exist means I might actually buy a copy. After I get my DS fixed, though. For some reason, I simply never bought any of the other copies but it seems the DS is just the right place for it.
Posts
I wouldn't say either really tends to outdo the other.
I didn't mean specifically that, but that sorta helps. Well... except I'm confused as to how that's a Japanese thing and not a bad-writing thing.
What I'm asking is (specifically) how Japanese developers portray a story vs. North American developers. Like if they had the same plot, what would the Japanese do differently from NA?
And the English version of Silent Hill 2 is a wonderful example of horrendous writing, although the story itself is very interesting and well done.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
How is this a Japanese thing and not a bad-writing thing? (if that's what you're getting at)
A good story is an example of good writing, even if dragged down by bad/badly-localised dialogue.
Nah I wasn't saying it was a Japanese thing, just defending FF13. :P
O_o
Gamestop are jerks.
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Can't say that I blame them. If I ran a videogame store, I wouldn't carry Intellivision Lives! DS either - way too niche.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
That's half-true. I think no matter the localization used, you can tell if something had the same tone in the Japanese version or not.
Watching the Cowboy Bebop movie, I noticed right away that the English subtitles and the English voice acting didn't match at all. So I watched the movie with both on, and I decided that the subtitles were a direct-translation of the Japanese writing. There's a lot of talk about "another world" in the Japanese text, but in the English voice work they talk about dreams. There's talk about evil spirits and shit when they're investigating what's killing people at the hospital in the Japanese wording, but in the English voice acting they go into more real possibilities.
So maybe the Japanese like mystery and the unexplained / dramatic stuff more. Or just have a different way of dealing with it.
Oh and Etrian Odyssey wasn't a niche title for the same platform?
This is bullshit, dude.
Verily.
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Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
It took me weeks of searching to find EO1.
Eventually I did find it, at my local Gamestop to boot. It was the first place I searched.
They had one copy and three employees had taken it out. It was the only new game I've ever purchased with a save on it. :P
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
I seriously fucking hate the shit Gamestop does with new games. REMOVING THE SHRINK-WRAP MAKES IT NOT-NEW GODDAMN IT.
This kind of reminds me of Final Fantasy: Spirits Within.
I remember they talked about how it mixed western story telling with Japanese sensibilities. The line was close to that anyways, well those Japanese sensibilities almost drove Square right into the ground and was the reason why the hurried up to make FF X-2 for some quick cash which they needed badly after that disaster.
Yeah it wasn't a game but again the Japanese sensibilities didn't exactly cater to many out side of Japan in that case.
I'll be here all week, folks
It was the only way I was going to play that game any time soon. It was back ordered at most online retailers that carried it. Also I knew most of the people at that store and was pretty cool about it.
I will not normally buy any NEW game that has been opened like that but I made an exception for a very rare game.
Everything I see about this game makes me want a Wii.
Oh God and the week just started too.
The kind of bad writing you tend to find in western games, I would argue, is at least is consistent in execution: we may roll our eyes at Marcus Fenix's overly macho mannerisms, or Krato's constant wish to kill everything, or even say, Paxton Fettle's (FEAR1's bad guy) generic bad guy qualities, but you don't see those concentrated OPERATION NORA facepalm moments in western games like you do in Japanese games.
Edit: I should mention again that I'm not saying all Japanese are terrible storytellers, like I mentioned in the Other M thread, I'm a big Murakami fan, for example. Just that Japanese games, or possibly their localizations, have these qualities.
To be fair though I wouldn't want to be in the same company with David Jaffe either.
I'm still just seeing it as good writing vs. bad, and not regional differences. In all the above cases it's bad writing.
Is this real?
Did someone seriously name the villain of their game Paxton Fettle?
You can't take a villain seriously with a name like Paxton Fettle.
I quit playing Alan Wake specifically because of the terrible writing. I understand that it was trying to set a narrative style, but to me it simply came off amateurish, and to be honest, stupid.
It was hilarious when I could hear an enemy screaming at me and Alan would immediately say, "I could hear Bob screaming at me from the forest."
Though as mentioned above, bad writing is bad writing.
Man was Winback a blast to play through with the voice acting. Fucking hilarious.
There's a big difference in degree between a well done RPG compared to a compilation of games from a 30 year old system that sold about a tenth what the market leader sold at the time.
Who here is actually planning on buying Intellivision Lives DS? I imagine it's a tiny fraction of the number of people who bought Etrian Odyssey.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
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Better buy it online!
Hahahahahaha
Meh, I would rather give Amazon my money than Gamestop anyways. :P
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Or is this basically a different version than the DS one, still might have been an influence.
I... UGH. Both of those look horrible, in a way that would make me think they're both obscene parodies of eastern and western design.
I've long since lost any desire to play FF13, so could you tell me what he actually says?
Intellivision Lives for DS? Doesn't appeal to their target audience.
Translation? DS IS TEH KIDDIEZ BITCHES
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Hearing this game is going to exist means I might actually buy a copy. After I get my DS fixed, though. For some reason, I simply never bought any of the other copies but it seems the DS is just the right place for it.