One thing that came up but was never really elaborated on was the possibility that people might have two minds, only one of which is normally dominant.
There's a ton that could have been done with that, especially when it's combined with SHIFTing. If you could SHIFT into someone's non-dominant mind, you'd essentially be riding shotgun. They'd behave as they normally would and wouldn't notice anything different, but you could do things like feed them information or override one side of their body to do something the dominant side didn't intend to do, like pressing a different button.
That could explain ?, who would have been a passenger in Sigma's mind the whole time, and possibly Akane's possesion of Junpei in 999 as well. In addition, all of the non-SHIFT morphogenetic memory transfer could be based on the background mind SHIFTing instead. Delta's mind hacking could also be temporary background SHIFTing, with him grabbing the background mind of the target and mining memories from it, while using his own background mind (which he might not be able to directly control, but would remain behaviorally synced with his foreground mind long enough to correctly mirror his will) to grab brief control over the target's behavior.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Alrighty, I just finished this, and can now read this thread.
Gameplay question (spoiler-y for puzzle solutions but nothing else)
I got stuck in the transporter room because I didn't work out to go back to the big tree-thingy in the corner once I'd got the math sorted out -- I kept on putting cards on the nested-shape thing on the benches by the number-math-dials.
Was there any point to that? If I put in some shapes it would say "we won" or "we lost" or both shapes would vanish, but nothing ever came of it that I could work out.
(also, like some other people, I got stuck because I didn't realise I could just not respond at all to 'who killed Mira' until I found the answer online. Other than these, the other puzzles seemed reasonable enough)
Storyline thoughts: (spoilers for overall ending and a few other bits)
Like some other people, the twins ending is super grim because of what is about to happen in the shelter after they transport, sheesh.
And I think I must have just got lucky / interpreted things more positively with some of the actually-random decisions, because those all seemed to make sense at the time because I went back to re-roll the dice / re-try the incinerator room after failing, and it felt like I'd got through due to other events having made them possible.
Eric/Mira's backstory just made me want them to stop talking, sheesh (except that it does tie in because of the snail/park murder stuff, I guess) -- but Had Enough Of All This Ridiculous Crap Eric With A Shotgun redeemed him because it totally made sense that to a normal person, SHIFT and multiple timelines and whatnot would just seem too dumb for words.
And I had a completely different interpretation of the Delta reveal from what was actually going on. I was playing along, I got he twins ending, and I was (as far as I could tell) stuck everywhere except for two remaining options in three-way-standoff. (I didn't find 'nobody' until after I'd completed the entire game and was racking my brains for what I could have missed).
I thought that "Sean" was the wrong name because I needed his surname; at one point he's referred to as Sean 579, but that didn't do it either, so I figured maybe suicide isn't an option. So I was thinking of names that I'd seen in the game but not used yet, and "Delta" was the only one left -- and at this point, because I'd seen the twins ending, "Delta" is now an option.
And when it turned out to be correct, I was very confused about what the heck was going on with the guy in the wheelchair and where he'd come from; but in the subsequent cutscenes when other people aren't surprised about him either, I assumed it was meant to be deliberate and I hadn't somehow made my way through the game in the wrong order.
But what I thought had happened was that, by seeing the twins ending, I had switched myself onto another timeline, where now that the twins had been sent back in time, Delta could now have been in the game from the beginning, whereas the me in the previous timeline had been playing a game without the guy-in-wheelchair in the game. Which seemed in keeping with the rest of what had happened, and it felt like a really ingenious idea that the game had now moved the timeline for the player.
Finding out that Zero had been there all along and was just hiding offscreen the whole time (with various hints, as per the reddit link above, to be fair), is much less interesting, somehow.
Alrighty, I just finished this, and can now read this thread.
Gameplay question (spoiler-y for puzzle solutions but nothing else)
I got stuck in the transporter room because I didn't work out to go back to the big tree-thingy in the corner once I'd got the math sorted out -- I kept on putting cards on the nested-shape thing on the benches by the number-math-dials.
Was there any point to that? If I put in some shapes it would say "we won" or "we lost" or both shapes would vanish, but nothing ever came of it that I could work out.
(also, like some other people, I got stuck because I didn't realise I could just not respond at all to 'who killed Mira' until I found the answer online. Other than these, the other puzzles seemed reasonable enough)
Storyline thoughts: (spoilers for overall ending and a few other bits)
Like some other people, the twins ending is super grim because of what is about to happen in the shelter after they transport, sheesh.
And I think I must have just got lucky / interpreted things more positively with some of the actually-random decisions, because those all seemed to make sense at the time because I went back to re-roll the dice / re-try the incinerator room after failing, and it felt like I'd got through due to other events having made them possible.
Eric/Mira's backstory just made me want them to stop talking, sheesh (except that it does tie in because of the snail/park murder stuff, I guess) -- but Had Enough Of All This Ridiculous Crap Eric With A Shotgun redeemed him because it totally made sense that to a normal person, SHIFT and multiple timelines and whatnot would just seem too dumb for words.
And I had a completely different interpretation of the Delta reveal from what was actually going on. I was playing along, I got he twins ending, and I was (as far as I could tell) stuck everywhere except for two remaining options in three-way-standoff. (I didn't find 'nobody' until after I'd completed the entire game and was racking my brains for what I could have missed).
I thought that "Sean" was the wrong name because I needed his surname; at one point he's referred to as Sean 579, but that didn't do it either, so I figured maybe suicide isn't an option. So I was thinking of names that I'd seen in the game but not used yet, and "Delta" was the only one left -- and at this point, because I'd seen the twins ending, "Delta" is now an option.
And when it turned out to be correct, I was very confused about what the heck was going on with the guy in the wheelchair and where he'd come from; but in the subsequent cutscenes when other people aren't surprised about him either, I assumed it was meant to be deliberate and I hadn't somehow made my way through the game in the wrong order.
But what I thought had happened was that, by seeing the twins ending, I had switched myself onto another timeline, where now that the twins had been sent back in time, Delta could now have been in the game from the beginning, whereas the me in the previous timeline had been playing a game without the guy-in-wheelchair in the game. Which seemed in keeping with the rest of what had happened, and it felt like a really ingenious idea that the game had now moved the timeline for the player.
Finding out that Zero had been there all along and was just hiding offscreen the whole time (with various hints, as per the reddit link above, to be fair), is much less interesting, somehow.
it was just a hint thing to give you a clue at which cards had which numbers
Alrighty, I just finished this, and can now read this thread.
Gameplay question (spoiler-y for puzzle solutions but nothing else)
I got stuck in the transporter room because I didn't work out to go back to the big tree-thingy in the corner once I'd got the math sorted out -- I kept on putting cards on the nested-shape thing on the benches by the number-math-dials.
Was there any point to that? If I put in some shapes it would say "we won" or "we lost" or both shapes would vanish, but nothing ever came of it that I could work out.
(also, like some other people, I got stuck because I didn't realise I could just not respond at all to 'who killed Mira' until I found the answer online. Other than these, the other puzzles seemed reasonable enough)
Storyline thoughts: (spoilers for overall ending and a few other bits)
Like some other people, the twins ending is super grim because of what is about to happen in the shelter after they transport, sheesh.
And I think I must have just got lucky / interpreted things more positively with some of the actually-random decisions, because those all seemed to make sense at the time because I went back to re-roll the dice / re-try the incinerator room after failing, and it felt like I'd got through due to other events having made them possible.
Eric/Mira's backstory just made me want them to stop talking, sheesh (except that it does tie in because of the snail/park murder stuff, I guess) -- but Had Enough Of All This Ridiculous Crap Eric With A Shotgun redeemed him because it totally made sense that to a normal person, SHIFT and multiple timelines and whatnot would just seem too dumb for words.
And I had a completely different interpretation of the Delta reveal from what was actually going on. I was playing along, I got he twins ending, and I was (as far as I could tell) stuck everywhere except for two remaining options in three-way-standoff. (I didn't find 'nobody' until after I'd completed the entire game and was racking my brains for what I could have missed).
I thought that "Sean" was the wrong name because I needed his surname; at one point he's referred to as Sean 579, but that didn't do it either, so I figured maybe suicide isn't an option. So I was thinking of names that I'd seen in the game but not used yet, and "Delta" was the only one left -- and at this point, because I'd seen the twins ending, "Delta" is now an option.
And when it turned out to be correct, I was very confused about what the heck was going on with the guy in the wheelchair and where he'd come from; but in the subsequent cutscenes when other people aren't surprised about him either, I assumed it was meant to be deliberate and I hadn't somehow made my way through the game in the wrong order.
But what I thought had happened was that, by seeing the twins ending, I had switched myself onto another timeline, where now that the twins had been sent back in time, Delta could now have been in the game from the beginning, whereas the me in the previous timeline had been playing a game without the guy-in-wheelchair in the game. Which seemed in keeping with the rest of what had happened, and it felt like a really ingenious idea that the game had now moved the timeline for the player.
Finding out that Zero had been there all along and was just hiding offscreen the whole time (with various hints, as per the reddit link above, to be fair), is much less interesting, somehow.
it was just a hint thing to give you a clue at which cards had which numbers
Specifically the primes you couldn't derive from the multiplication: 1, 7, 11, and 13.
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Wow, Stranded Pair didn't go where I thought it would...
I loved seeing Batshit Crazy Diana, though. Her voice actress really sells it.
All this time spent and I still barely know what's going on, just a few theories(one seems far too easy though).
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Hit a bump in the road, after the D-Team End 1: (late game)
I know the twins' birthday, but that isn't the code for either of the two choices left; Force Quit Q or opening Q's Mask. Is there something I'm missing?
Hit a bump in the road, after the D-Team End 1: (late game)
I know the twins' birthday, but that isn't the code for either of the two choices left; Force Quit Q or opening Q's Mask. Is there something I'm missing?
There's quite a lot, actually. Have you gotten all of the vote results? I think that matters.
Hit a bump in the road, after the D-Team End 1: (late game)
I know the twins' birthday, but that isn't the code for either of the two choices left; Force Quit Q or opening Q's Mask. Is there something I'm missing?
By that point you should have already used the Twin's birthday code. I'd double check your flow chart for ! marks in case you've left something undone.
A bit more specific:
That code is used by the Diana and Sigma that ended up in a different reality after the transporter.
The helmet code is also one you should have.
There should be a timeline where Q talks to Zero alone. Make sure you explore both outcomes.
Hit a bump in the road, after the D-Team End 1: (late game)
I know the twins' birthday, but that isn't the code for either of the two choices left; Force Quit Q or opening Q's Mask. Is there something I'm missing?
There's quite a lot, actually. Have you gotten all of the vote results? I think that matters.
I did, but I never saw C-Team get executed, even though I voted against them... the red icon is still unfilled.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Hit a bump in the road, after the D-Team End 1: (late game)
I know the twins' birthday, but that isn't the code for either of the two choices left; Force Quit Q or opening Q's Mask. Is there something I'm missing?
By that point you should have already used the Twin's birthday code. I'd double check your flow chart for ! marks in case you've left something undone.
A bit more specific:
That code is used by the Diana and Sigma that ended up in a different reality after the transporter.
The helmet code is also one you should have.
There should be a timeline where Q talks to Zero alone. Make sure you explore both outcomes.
I've already used that twin code, but I've never seen that timeline...
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Never mind, realized my mistake.
I didn't vote for C-Team with both teams in the same loop. Not sure why that didn't trigger the C-Team execution before, but it did now.
Hit a bump in the road, after the D-Team End 1: (late game)
I know the twins' birthday, but that isn't the code for either of the two choices left; Force Quit Q or opening Q's Mask. Is there something I'm missing?
There's quite a lot, actually. Have you gotten all of the vote results? I think that matters.
I did, but I never saw C-Team get executed, even though I voted against them... the red icon is still unfilled.
you need to go back and adjust the vote totals so that they do
Hit a bump in the road, after the D-Team End 1: (late game)
I know the twins' birthday, but that isn't the code for either of the two choices left; Force Quit Q or opening Q's Mask. Is there something I'm missing?
There's quite a lot, actually. Have you gotten all of the vote results? I think that matters.
I did, but I never saw C-Team get executed, even though I voted against them... the red icon is still unfilled.
Go through the various votes a couple more times till you see it. There's a reason it doesn't work as you think it should.
Add me on Switch: 7795-5541-4699
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited July 2016
Well... that escalated quickly. (Endgame)
I love how Zero literally uses DCD's Wesker voice. Someone here posted a picture with the red shades, but that's all I knew.
I'm not entirely sure how the hell Delta is alive after so long or how Phi was so young, but I still have a LOT to see...
One question about the Stranded Pair ending(s):
Why didn't Akane come back? Was she broken from losing Junpei, or did she just not know they were alive?
If it was a Radical-6 future, I could understand; they'd have bigger problems.
Also, regarding Zero's plan...
If what he said about saving '8 billion' from nuclear war was true, uh... doesn't that happen in VLR because of all the reactors going boom, effectively dooming humanity regardless?
Of course, if I have yet to learn, feel free to ignore that last one.
I feel like those Q ends
would have been a lot more mind blowing if I'd seen them first instead of last, heh.
I love how Zero literally uses DCD's Wesker voice. Someone here posted a picture with the red shades, but that's all I knew.
I'm not entirely sure how the hell Delta is alive after so long or how Phi was so young, but I still have a LOT to see...
One question about the Stranded Pair ending(s):
Why didn't Akane come back? Was she broken from losing Junpei, or did she just not know they were alive?
If it was a Radical-6 future, I could understand; they'd have bigger problems.
Also, regarding Zero's plan...
If what he said about saving '8 billion' from nuclear war was true, uh... doesn't that happen in VLR because of all the reactors going boom, effectively dooming humanity regardless?
Of course, if I have yet to learn, feel free to ignore that last one.
I feel like those Q ends
would have been a lot more mind blowing if I'd seen them first instead of last, heh.
Phi was sent to the 1900's like Delta, but then was sent from there to 2008. Or at least I'm sure it said that somewhere, because that fact is in my brain and I know I didn't just make it up (probably in the post game files, which FYI there are and you should read). Either way her age makes "sense" and is "normal" (or as normal as this universe gets).
Delta though, yeah, he went down the long path, and there's been no clue how he's survived. Only theory that's floated around is it might possibly have something to do with the whole alien copying machine.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I love how Zero literally uses DCD's Wesker voice. Someone here posted a picture with the red shades, but that's all I knew.
I'm not entirely sure how the hell Delta is alive after so long or how Phi was so young, but I still have a LOT to see...
One question about the Stranded Pair ending(s):
Why didn't Akane come back? Was she broken from losing Junpei, or did she just not know they were alive?
If it was a Radical-6 future, I could understand; they'd have bigger problems.
Also, regarding Zero's plan...
If what he said about saving '8 billion' from nuclear war was true, uh... doesn't that happen in VLR because of all the reactors going boom, effectively dooming humanity regardless?
Of course, if I have yet to learn, feel free to ignore that last one.
I feel like those Q ends
would have been a lot more mind blowing if I'd seen them first instead of last, heh.
In order of your two questions
Sigma raises a possible reason why Akane didn't come back. If the amnesia drug in her bracelet activated one last time as she exited the facility, she wouldn't remember anything of what went on and who was trapped there. In fact that would perhaps be a reason why, in the VLR timeline, Sigma and Phi don't have any info on what happened at DCOM.
The nuclear reactors blowing killed a LOT of people, but not everyone. Humanity is still limping along, and perhaps on the road to recovery, in the VLR timeline. From what Brother says, the nuclear war caused by the fanatic would be violent enough to completely kill humanity.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I love how Zero literally uses DCD's Wesker voice. Someone here posted a picture with the red shades, but that's all I knew.
I'm not entirely sure how the hell Delta is alive after so long or how Phi was so young, but I still have a LOT to see...
One question about the Stranded Pair ending(s):
Why didn't Akane come back? Was she broken from losing Junpei, or did she just not know they were alive?
If it was a Radical-6 future, I could understand; they'd have bigger problems.
Also, regarding Zero's plan...
If what he said about saving '8 billion' from nuclear war was true, uh... doesn't that happen in VLR because of all the reactors going boom, effectively dooming humanity regardless?
Of course, if I have yet to learn, feel free to ignore that last one.
I feel like those Q ends
would have been a lot more mind blowing if I'd seen them first instead of last, heh.
In order of your two questions
Sigma raises a possible reason why Akane didn't come back. If the amnesia drug in her bracelet activated one last time as she exited the facility, she wouldn't remember anything of what went on and who was trapped there. In fact that would perhaps be a reason why, in the VLR timeline, Sigma and Phi don't have any info on what happened at DCOM.
The nuclear reactors blowing killed a LOT of people, but not everyone. Humanity is still limping along, and perhaps on the road to recovery, in the VLR timeline. From what Brother says, the nuclear war caused by the fanatic would be violent enough to completely kill humanity.
I figured as much.
I assumed the program directors would eventually figure something was up, though... I guess not.
The more I think about it the more fucked up shifting becomes.
For the dice roll for every single instance where Team C survives 215 instances of the team die. And then the survivors may or may not be shunted into a reality where they are immediately shot to death anyway so another instance of them can get their codes. Thats not even getting into the radical 6 ending or the fanatic timeline.
All those Junpeis getting axe-murdered by Clover, stabbed by Ace, drowned by Clover, stabbed by Clover, or just never escaping because his future wasn't chosen.
I love how Zero literally uses DCD's Wesker voice. Someone here posted a picture with the red shades, but that's all I knew.
I'm not entirely sure how the hell Delta is alive after so long or how Phi was so young, but I still have a LOT to see...
One question about the Stranded Pair ending(s):
Why didn't Akane come back? Was she broken from losing Junpei, or did she just not know they were alive?
If it was a Radical-6 future, I could understand; they'd have bigger problems.
Also, regarding Zero's plan...
If what he said about saving '8 billion' from nuclear war was true, uh... doesn't that happen in VLR because of all the reactors going boom, effectively dooming humanity regardless?
Of course, if I have yet to learn, feel free to ignore that last one.
I feel like those Q ends
would have been a lot more mind blowing if I'd seen them first instead of last, heh.
Phi was sent to the 1900's like Delta, but then was sent from there to 2008. Or at least I'm sure it said that somewhere, because that fact is in my brain and I know I didn't just make it up (probably in the post game files, which FYI there are and you should read). Either way her age makes "sense" and is "normal" (or as normal as this universe gets).
Delta though, yeah, he went down the long path, and there's been no clue how he's survived. Only theory that's floated around is it might possibly have something to do with the whole alien copying machine.
furthermore
the phi that got sent to 2008 was raised by 1904 phi
+2
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
And done. Enjoyed the ending quite a bit, especially the ambiguity, but damn,
I never thought the Radical 6 outbreak could be considered a GOOD thing.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Regarding the jerk choices...
The most interesting one is when Diana pushes the yellow button. Zero seems to flat out tell her, 'actually, that was all you. Nice acting, monster.'
The most interesting one is when Diana pushes the yellow button. Zero seems to flat out tell her, 'actually, that was all you. Nice acting, monster.'
Amazing.
Interesting point actually.
It seems a common explanation that the Jerk options are Zero using his Mindhack but is this outright stated? It's not like he has any reason to mess with Diana in the above ending and while Diana and Carlos are pretty unambiguously good you'd have to be a downright saint not to be atleast tempted. For all we know in 999 timelines they resisted and in 1 it was just to much and they pressed the button.
Hell from a strictly Utilitarian viewpoint, from their perspective hitting the button may be the best outcome. By the rules of the game it results in the maximum number of survivors and as an added bonus it'll be the people closest to you.
Considering the only ending other than winning the coin toss where there are more then 3 survivors is the Radical 6 ending and even then only because of timeline jumping shenanigans (Not to mention the added 6 billion deaths) it's actually a pretty understandable choice. Especially as shifters they are likely somewhat aware of that even if not consciously.
In literally every timeline where the game goes beyond the coin toss at minimum 6 people will be killed.
And done. Enjoyed the ending quite a bit, especially the ambiguity, but damn,
I never thought the Radical 6 outbreak could be considered a GOOD thing.
Maybe. There are certainly plenty of other ways the world could be saved. The mere fact that Radical 6 could work at all means that the worse possibility was never inevitable.
What Delta really needed the Radical 6 timeline for was to lure Old Sigma into the past, so he could become Delta's father. Anything else could very well just be an excuse to justify his selfish (though likely inevitable) decision to use Radical 6.
The most interesting one is when Diana pushes the yellow button. Zero seems to flat out tell her, 'actually, that was all you. Nice acting, monster.'
Amazing.
Interesting point actually.
It seems a common explanation that the Jerk options are Zero using his Mindhack but is this outright stated? It's not like he has any reason to mess with Diana in the above ending and while Diana and Carlos are pretty unambiguously good you'd have to be a downright saint not to be atleast tempted. For all we know in 999 timelines they resisted and in 1 it was just to much and they pressed the button.
Hell from a strictly Utilitarian viewpoint, from their perspective hitting the button may be the best outcome. By the rules of the game it results in the maximum number of survivors and as an added bonus it'll be the people closest to you.
Considering the only ending other than winning the coin toss where there are more then 3 survivors is the Radical 6 ending and even then only because of timeline jumping shenanigans (Not to mention the added 6 billion deaths) it's actually a pretty understandable choice. Especially as shifters they are likely somewhat aware of that even if not consciously.
In literally every timeline where the game goes beyond the coin toss at minimum 6 people will be killed.
I mean,
It could very well be that the real culprit behind the executions is ?, who is us.
Zero comes very close to saying that outright in one of the execution scenes. Where he basically acknowledges the team's protests that them being executed makes no goddamned sense, (because it means one team sent the gabletter to a team whose vote didn't matter either way) and asks them to wonder who it was who wants to see them die.
Enlong on
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
In hindsight, kind of baffled that there
was no final puzzle room. The reactor puzzles were fun, but there was no penultimate bang of a puzzle, so to speak.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Finished. That was pretty cool, although (endgame spoilers)
I wish they hadn't dropped the Kyle and ? threads.
Stranded pair
I'm going to headcanon that they went to the Healing Room and pushed the button after the ending, because nooooooope.
It doesn't help the fact that they don't mention the plot threads, but
Akane did say, in VLR, that Kyle's job begins on Christmas and at New Year's Eve. Meaning his job ends just before ZTD starts. Wish we knew what it was, though.
? is more of a question. Some decisions might be ? and might be mind hacking.
I just finished the game, and I feel exactly the same as when
I finished Ocarina of Time for the first time. It kind of feels like it was sort of pointless, and I saw nothing about Kyle and now we don't even know who the fuck he is. I guess the characters now being determined to keep the world alive makes them better than before the whole thing, but I have mixed feelings about the villain doing this for the good of humanity.
Also, there was some serious time paradox going on in there. How were Phi and Delta conceived in the first place?
And I think the ending hinted at there being another sequel dealing with the fanatic that will trigger the nuclear war. The last thing I got was the decision given to Carlos-San to kill or let Delta live. Is that the actual ending or did I miss anything?
I played it on 3DS, and I remember there being a couple of times when the cel-shading was disabled for some reason, and it looked awful.
Posts
I want to know what proportion of those Junpei fucks are from which games.
Fuuuuuuuuuu....
Steam: pazython
There's a ton that could have been done with that, especially when it's combined with SHIFTing. If you could SHIFT into someone's non-dominant mind, you'd essentially be riding shotgun. They'd behave as they normally would and wouldn't notice anything different, but you could do things like feed them information or override one side of their body to do something the dominant side didn't intend to do, like pressing a different button.
That could explain ?, who would have been a passenger in Sigma's mind the whole time, and possibly Akane's possesion of Junpei in 999 as well. In addition, all of the non-SHIFT morphogenetic memory transfer could be based on the background mind SHIFTing instead. Delta's mind hacking could also be temporary background SHIFTing, with him grabbing the background mind of the target and mining memories from it, while using his own background mind (which he might not be able to directly control, but would remain behaviorally synced with his foreground mind long enough to correctly mirror his will) to grab brief control over the target's behavior.
You do, I heard it during the Rec Room, or at some point.
It also means I can now read this thread!
Gameplay question (spoiler-y for puzzle solutions but nothing else)
Was there any point to that? If I put in some shapes it would say "we won" or "we lost" or both shapes would vanish, but nothing ever came of it that I could work out.
(also, like some other people, I got stuck because I didn't realise I could just not respond at all to 'who killed Mira' until I found the answer online. Other than these, the other puzzles seemed reasonable enough)
Storyline thoughts: (spoilers for overall ending and a few other bits)
And I think I must have just got lucky / interpreted things more positively with some of the actually-random decisions, because those all seemed to make sense at the time because I went back to re-roll the dice / re-try the incinerator room after failing, and it felt like I'd got through due to other events having made them possible.
Eric/Mira's backstory just made me want them to stop talking, sheesh (except that it does tie in because of the snail/park murder stuff, I guess) -- but Had Enough Of All This Ridiculous Crap Eric With A Shotgun redeemed him because it totally made sense that to a normal person, SHIFT and multiple timelines and whatnot would just seem too dumb for words.
And I had a completely different interpretation of the Delta reveal from what was actually going on. I was playing along, I got he twins ending, and I was (as far as I could tell) stuck everywhere except for two remaining options in three-way-standoff. (I didn't find 'nobody' until after I'd completed the entire game and was racking my brains for what I could have missed).
I thought that "Sean" was the wrong name because I needed his surname; at one point he's referred to as Sean 579, but that didn't do it either, so I figured maybe suicide isn't an option. So I was thinking of names that I'd seen in the game but not used yet, and "Delta" was the only one left -- and at this point, because I'd seen the twins ending, "Delta" is now an option.
And when it turned out to be correct, I was very confused about what the heck was going on with the guy in the wheelchair and where he'd come from; but in the subsequent cutscenes when other people aren't surprised about him either, I assumed it was meant to be deliberate and I hadn't somehow made my way through the game in the wrong order.
But what I thought had happened was that, by seeing the twins ending, I had switched myself onto another timeline, where now that the twins had been sent back in time, Delta could now have been in the game from the beginning, whereas the me in the previous timeline had been playing a game without the guy-in-wheelchair in the game. Which seemed in keeping with the rest of what had happened, and it felt like a really ingenious idea that the game had now moved the timeline for the player.
Finding out that Zero had been there all along and was just hiding offscreen the whole time (with various hints, as per the reddit link above, to be fair), is much less interesting, somehow.
All this time spent and I still barely know what's going on, just a few theories(one seems far too easy though).
A bit more specific:
The helmet code is also one you should have.
I'm not entirely sure how the hell Delta is alive after so long or how Phi was so young, but I still have a LOT to see...
One question about the Stranded Pair ending(s):
If it was a Radical-6 future, I could understand; they'd have bigger problems.
Also, regarding Zero's plan...
Of course, if I have yet to learn, feel free to ignore that last one.
I feel like those Q ends
Delta though, yeah, he went down the long path, and there's been no clue how he's survived. Only theory that's floated around is it might possibly have something to do with the whole alien copying machine.
In order of your two questions
I assumed the program directors would eventually figure something was up, though... I guess not.
Tenmyouji had a point.
furthermore
Amazing.
Interesting point actually.
Hell from a strictly Utilitarian viewpoint, from their perspective hitting the button may be the best outcome. By the rules of the game it results in the maximum number of survivors and as an added bonus it'll be the people closest to you.
Considering the only ending other than winning the coin toss where there are more then 3 survivors is the Radical 6 ending and even then only because of timeline jumping shenanigans (Not to mention the added 6 billion deaths) it's actually a pretty understandable choice. Especially as shifters they are likely somewhat aware of that even if not consciously.
In literally every timeline where the game goes beyond the coin toss at minimum 6 people will be killed.
What Delta really needed the Radical 6 timeline for was to lure Old Sigma into the past, so he could become Delta's father. Anything else could very well just be an excuse to justify his selfish (though likely inevitable) decision to use Radical 6.
I mean,
Zero comes very close to saying that outright in one of the execution scenes. Where he basically acknowledges the team's protests that them being executed makes no goddamned sense, (because it means one team sent the gabletter to a team whose vote didn't matter either way) and asks them to wonder who it was who wants to see them die.
http://nicht-alles-gold.tumblr.com/post/147668395350
Stranded pair
It doesn't help the fact that they don't mention the plot threads, but
? is more of a question. Some decisions might be ? and might be mind hacking.
And holy fuck the status screen creeped me out when i tapped it. What the hell.
Also, there was some serious time paradox going on in there. How were Phi and Delta conceived in the first place?
And I think the ending hinted at there being another sequel dealing with the fanatic that will trigger the nuclear war. The last thing I got was the decision given to Carlos-San to kill or let Delta live. Is that the actual ending or did I miss anything?
I played it on 3DS, and I remember there being a couple of times when the cel-shading was disabled for some reason, and it looked awful.
Now to wait for my damn watch.