So, TvZ on Scrap Station, my scout gets to his base at the 2:30 mark and sees a spawning pool down (replay shows they started it at 9/10 food). So I build my wall-off with depot-barracks-bunker-depot. I built another barracks next to it for reactor, and I've managed to build a total of 3 marines and 1 marauder when he shows up at my front door with 36 zerglings. Had a factory under construction but not yet built. Not entirely sure how I'm supposed to counter that when they show up that quickly in those numbers.
how many barracks did you have?
36 zerglings is 900 mins. that means you could have had an army of at least 3 barracks and 9 marines based on just his army composition. if you count the cost of his pool then another 4 marines on top of that.
i think he just mass armied you while you tried to tech.
2 barracks, one with tech lab and the other with reactor (so they weren't making anything while those add-ons were being built), a factory under construction, and an expansion CC under construction. So, yeah, I had a lot of minerals being used in places other than marine production.
Should I be going for plain barracks in that situation? As in don't spend the minerals/time making a tech lab, just make marines one at a time from each of them? It seems like in most every match I either go for a tech lab right away as soon as the barracks finishes, or I go for it right after the first marine if my refinery went up a bit late.
2 barracks, one with tech lab and the other with reactor (so they weren't making anything while those add-ons were being built), a factory under construction, and an expansion CC under construction. So, yeah, I had a lot of minerals being used in places other than marine production.
Should I be going for plain barracks in that situation? As in don't spend the minerals/time making a tech lab, just make marines one at a time from each of them? It seems like in most every match I either go for a tech lab right away as soon as the barracks finishes, or I go for it right after the first marine if my refinery went up a bit late.
You expanded when it was clearly unsafe to do so. You tried to expand AND tech without having any army. This is just crossing your fingers and hoping you don't get attacked. Clearly that didn't work.
Teching and making marines with those 400 minerals would have been a fine idea, making another barracks is fine.
This is my general rule of thumb: Make a barracks, constantly produce marines. Too many minerals? make another barracks and constantly produce marines with it. Too much gas? make a techlab/reactor and do not stop making marines/marauders with it. After 2 barracks you might decide to go factory, expand, or more barracks but you MUST constantly produce units. If you do not do this and they do, you will get smashed. Do not hope you won't get attacked.
After fine tuning this, you might want to cut one or two marines to expand a few seconds earlier and whatnot.
In my team games I find that I have HALF the structures and a comparable or superior army because I do this. People will sink minerals into buildings so they can produce units fast, when the fact is you should just always be producing units out of fewer structures. Two less barracks is 6 more marines.
That's awesome! Ha, and the song is even recorded with decent sound quality and the guy can actually sing.
Someone should modify the final protoss mission where all the protoss heroes warp in so that Pylo the Pylon warps in right at the end if you get to say, a 1000 kills, and blocks one of your ramps for you while having 400K hit points
So, TvZ on Scrap Station, my scout gets to his base at the 2:30 mark and sees a spawning pool down (replay shows they started it at 9/10 food). So I build my wall-off with depot-barracks-bunker-depot. I built another barracks next to it for reactor, and I've managed to build a total of 3 marines and 1 marauder when he shows up at my front door with 36 zerglings. Had a factory under construction but not yet built. Not entirely sure how I'm supposed to counter that when they show up that quickly in those numbers.
how many barracks did you have?
36 zerglings is 900 mins. that means you could have had an army of at least 3 barracks and 9 marines based on just his army composition. if you count the cost of his pool then another 4 marines on top of that.
i think he just mass armied you while you tried to tech.
it happens.
Also, if your wall in was on a good map and well laid out, and you'd had say 4 marines and a marauder, and a couple of SCVsto repair, you could probably have won that fight. Heck, with some helper SCVs, even 3+1 vs 36 isn't an immediate gg.
Yes, making sure you're making enough peoples is pretty much how you avoid getting crushed by early attacks. If you're ever thinking "I only needed another 5-15 seconds for these units to finally get out", then you need to keep a better eye on the enemy, and be ready to make more units or defenses.
That happens to me a lot, especially when I'm trying something new out, like my fast infestor build. If I can get 2-3 of them to their base I can basically kill their main building, which is hilarious. I think a big thing is to transition out of it into something else, but you use a lot of gas to get them, so the stopgap is probably a lot of lings.
I wanted to try out using Warp Prisms to drop off Dark Templar, but the guy surrendered after I blew up his void rays. A nice thing I noticed about rushing to Dark Templar is that it also lets me research Blink quickly.
I wanted to try out using Warp Prisms to drop off Dark Templar, but the guy surrendered after I blew up his void rays. A nice thing I noticed about rushing to Dark Templar is that it also lets me research Blink quickly.
I find it smarter to use the prism to simply warp in the DTs. It's lower risk, since you'll lose less if it gets sniped by vikings/mutas (in my experience).
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
I wanted to try out using Warp Prisms to drop off Dark Templar, but the guy surrendered after I blew up his void rays. A nice thing I noticed about rushing to Dark Templar is that it also lets me research Blink quickly.
I love DTs a lot cause even two of them can wreck havoc and are not a really a terrible loss if detected.
Also, dropping 2 immortals and then warping in like 4-5 DTs into an enemies base is SO FUN.
So, TvZ on Scrap Station, my scout gets to his base at the 2:30 mark and sees a spawning pool down (replay shows they started it at 9/10 food). So I build my wall-off with depot-barracks-bunker-depot. I built another barracks next to it for reactor, and I've managed to build a total of 3 marines and 1 marauder when he shows up at my front door with 36 zerglings. Had a factory under construction but not yet built. Not entirely sure how I'm supposed to counter that when they show up that quickly in those numbers.
how many barracks did you have?
36 zerglings is 900 mins. that means you could have had an army of at least 3 barracks and 9 marines based on just his army composition. if you count the cost of his pool then another 4 marines on top of that.
i think he just mass armied you while you tried to tech.
it happens.
Also, if your wall in was on a good map and well laid out, and you'd had say 4 marines and a marauder, and a couple of SCVsto repair, you could probably have won that fight. Heck, with some helper SCVs, even 3+1 vs 36 isn't an immediate gg.
Scrap Station isn't really that good a map for a wall-in, though. It takes four buildings to wall that off and it's a very wide ramp, so he could theoretically be having a few zerglings apiece munching on all four at a time.
So, TvZ on Scrap Station, my scout gets to his base at the 2:30 mark and sees a spawning pool down (replay shows they started it at 9/10 food). So I build my wall-off with depot-barracks-bunker-depot. I built another barracks next to it for reactor, and I've managed to build a total of 3 marines and 1 marauder when he shows up at my front door with 36 zerglings. Had a factory under construction but not yet built. Not entirely sure how I'm supposed to counter that when they show up that quickly in those numbers.
how many barracks did you have?
36 zerglings is 900 mins. that means you could have had an army of at least 3 barracks and 9 marines based on just his army composition. if you count the cost of his pool then another 4 marines on top of that.
i think he just mass armied you while you tried to tech.
it happens.
Also, if your wall in was on a good map and well laid out, and you'd had say 4 marines and a marauder, and a couple of SCVsto repair, you could probably have won that fight. Heck, with some helper SCVs, even 3+1 vs 36 isn't an immediate gg.
Scrap Station isn't really that good a map for a wall-in, though. It takes four buildings to wall that off and it's a very wide ramp, so he could theoretically be having a few zerglings apiece munching on all four at a time.
Ahh, scrap station, that's not so great a map for a wall in. If you want to defend there, you've got to have plenty of actual units to do it with.
just 2 base mutaed to take out a 1 1 1 terran
traded my expo for all his scvs and his main
survived his suicide push with banelings and mutas and won
the funny part is he was running all his buildings to the corners even when i could see him, so I asked him what was up. turned out he wanted a drone killing achievement, and all he had left on the map was a raven, so i let him autoturret some drones i mean what do I care I won already
just 2 base mutaed to take out a 1 1 1 terran
traded my expo for all his scvs and his main
survived his suicide push with banelings and mutas and won
the funny part is he was running all his buildings to the corners even when i could see him, so I asked him what was up. turned out he wanted a drone killing achievement, and all he had left on the map was a raven, so i let him autoturret some drones i mean what do I care I won already
just 2 base mutaed to take out a 1 1 1 terran
traded my expo for all his scvs and his main
survived his suicide push with banelings and mutas and won
the funny part is he was running all his buildings to the corners even when i could see him, so I asked him what was up. turned out he wanted a drone killing achievement, and all he had left on the map was a raven, so i let him autoturret some drones i mean what do I care I won already
classy of you
pretty sure that challenge only works on scvs
I killed about 40 probes and didn't get it, if you read the details it says scvs.
just 2 base mutaed to take out a 1 1 1 terran
traded my expo for all his scvs and his main
survived his suicide push with banelings and mutas and won
the funny part is he was running all his buildings to the corners even when i could see him, so I asked him what was up. turned out he wanted a drone killing achievement, and all he had left on the map was a raven, so i let him autoturret some drones i mean what do I care I won already
classy of you
pretty sure that challenge only works on scvs
I killed about 40 probes and didn't get it, if you read the details it says scvs.
oh well, I was kinda wondering... like I've never heard of this achievement but ok...
just 2 base mutaed to take out a 1 1 1 terran
traded my expo for all his scvs and his main
survived his suicide push with banelings and mutas and won
the funny part is he was running all his buildings to the corners even when i could see him, so I asked him what was up. turned out he wanted a drone killing achievement, and all he had left on the map was a raven, so i let him autoturret some drones i mean what do I care I won already
classy of you
pretty sure that challenge only works on scvs
I killed about 40 probes and didn't get it, if you read the details it says scvs.
oh well, I was kinda wondering... like I've never heard of this achievement but ok...
What would've been hilarious is if you let him kill all your drones and he rolled in with like 6 bcs.
I feel like I'm being punished for laddering more than these people who only play a few games a week. Bonus points are a little ridiculous. I'm nickel and diming it up towards plat, and these non playing assholes come in and gain 150 points, flying past me. They're not winning more, they're bonus pointing more. How does that make me ranked lower than them? I'm the more dedicated player damnit, give ME the points.
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
just 2 base mutaed to take out a 1 1 1 terran
traded my expo for all his scvs and his main
survived his suicide push with banelings and mutas and won
the funny part is he was running all his buildings to the corners even when i could see him, so I asked him what was up. turned out he wanted a drone killing achievement, and all he had left on the map was a raven, so i let him autoturret some drones i mean what do I care I won already
classy of you
pretty sure that challenge only works on scvs
I killed about 40 probes and didn't get it, if you read the details it says scvs.
oh well, I was kinda wondering... like I've never heard of this achievement but ok...
What would've been hilarious is if you let him kill all your drones and he rolled in with like 6 bcs.
yeah only reason i let him do it was i killed his cc so he was fully revealed, and then killed all his forces. not trying to go out like a punk
I feel like I'm being punished for laddering more than these people who only play a few games a week. Bonus points are a little ridiculous. I'm nickel and diming it up towards plat, and these non playing assholes come in and gain 150 points, flying past me. They're not winning more, they're bonus pointing more. How does that make me ranked lower than them? I'm the more dedicated player damnit, give ME the points.
Your point total does not influence your league—if you are managing the same win ratios against the same level of opponent, you'll advance first.
I feel like I'm being punished for laddering more than these people who only play a few games a week. Bonus points are a little ridiculous. I'm nickel and diming it up towards plat, and these non playing assholes come in and gain 150 points, flying past me. They're not winning more, they're bonus pointing more. How does that make me ranked lower than them? I'm the more dedicated player damnit, give ME the points.
Your point total does not influence your league—if you are managing the same win ratios against the same level of opponent, you'll advance first.
What the heck do points mean anyways? Other than "yeay points!"?
I feel like I'm being punished for laddering more than these people who only play a few games a week. Bonus points are a little ridiculous. I'm nickel and diming it up towards plat, and these non playing assholes come in and gain 150 points, flying past me. They're not winning more, they're bonus pointing more. How does that make me ranked lower than them? I'm the more dedicated player damnit, give ME the points.
Your point total does not influence your league—if you are managing the same win ratios against the same level of opponent, you'll advance first.
He's not talking about moving into diamond, he's talking about his division and he's right. I've stopped laddering as hard in my 1v1 just to get bonus pools. I have more wins and a similar ratio than guys with 200 points more than me because they play once a week.
It's kinda silly, but keep in mind your division rank is just a silly number...play the game to enjoy it.
Well maybe you were talking about moving into platinum, either way it's silly.
I am not innocent of the same thoughts, and it has pissed me off too. I started playing a lot of team games because they're not stressful and you seem to have infinite bonus pool
I feel like I'm being punished for laddering more than these people who only play a few games a week. Bonus points are a little ridiculous. I'm nickel and diming it up towards plat, and these non playing assholes come in and gain 150 points, flying past me. They're not winning more, they're bonus pointing more. How does that make me ranked lower than them? I'm the more dedicated player damnit, give ME the points.
Your point total does not influence your league—if you are managing the same win ratios against the same level of opponent, you'll advance first.
He's not talking about moving into diamond, he's talking about his division and he's right. I've stopped laddering as hard in my 1v1 just to get bonus pools. I have more wins and a similar ratio than guys with 200 points more than me because they play once a week.
It's kinda silly, but keep in mind your division rank is just a silly number...play the game to enjoy it.
But he said he was crawling his way toward Plat...
Actually, this whole thing doesn't make any sense. Bonus points are accrued evenly by all players. If you're playing 10 games a day and he's playing 2, you're still getting exactly as many bonus points as he does. If he's scoring far more points than you he must be achieving a better win/loss ratio or playing against better people.
@Loklar: There's nothing more to it than "yeah points!". All the matchmaking/league placement stuff is done using other statistics that the player can't see.
Except they AREN'T getting better win/loss ratio or playing vs better people. Kinda handy when you can go check exactly what they've been doing.
I see lots of people who rotate game types so they'll have max bonus points every time. It'd be nice of they applied to ALL your leagues.
And that background point system thing is all assumptions. People also claim I should be facing harder and harder opponents as I get streaks. Not at all true either. Win vs a couple plats I should get more plats or golds. Not bronzes.
Right now: ladder system is horseshit. They had a chihuahua design it.
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
The cool thing about the rankings and so on (outside of the actual leagues) is that they are all just eye candy and a "clever" way of keeping the scrubs happy.
As the Elitists at TeamLiquid like to say "Anybody under 1200 points Diamond just exists to fund the game,everyone above 'actually' plays it."
Klyka on
SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
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Tkenpost-CSL January 2012 Partycraft 6th Place WinnerRegistered Userregular
Except they AREN'T getting better win/loss ratio or playing vs better people. Kinda handy when you can go check exactly what they've been doing.
Yes they are. Not over the short term as they eat up their bonus points, but over the long term. If they have 200 bonus points saved up and you have none, that's because those 200 points are already added to your point total. Sure, he's going to shoot up past your point total very quickly if he was within ~200 of you, but that's because you had an artificial lead on him since you used your bonus points a couple at a time.
Bonus points are even for all players and there is just as much reason to play when you have 0 as when you have 12. It's just that in the first case you've already earned those 12 points.
And that background point system thing is all assumptions. People also claim I should be facing harder and harder opponents as I get streaks. Not at all true either. Win vs a couple plats I should get more plats or golds. Not bronzes.
It's a background point system. You seem to think it correlates directly with league, which is a mistake many people make. Just because you face a silver player after defeating two plats doesn't mean the silver player is worse; he might have a much better record and MMR.
So this whole time I haven't been playing starcraft? What have I been doing? When I sit down to play starcraft is my alternate personality taking over and starting fight clubs?
So this whole time I haven't been playing starcraft? What have I been doing? When I sit down to play starcraft is my alternate personality taking over and starting fight clubs?
Masturbating.
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
Except they AREN'T getting better win/loss ratio or playing vs better people. Kinda handy when you can go check exactly what they've been doing.
I see lots of people who rotate game types so they'll have max bonus points every time. It'd be nice of they applied to ALL your leagues.
And that background point system thing is all assumptions. People also claim I should be facing harder and harder opponents as I get streaks. Not at all true either. Win vs a couple plats I should get more plats or golds. Not bronzes.
Right now: ladder system is horseshit. They had a chihuahua design it.
There are three possibilities, here—either math is wrong, our knowledge about how the ladder works is wrong, or you have a serious case of confirmation bias.
The cool thing about the rankings and so on (outside of the actual leagues) is that they are all just eye candy and a "clever" way of keeping the scrubs happy.
As the Elitists at TeamLiquid like to say "Anybody under 1200 points Diamond just exists to fund the game,everyone above 'actually' plays it."
Except they AREN'T getting better win/loss ratio or playing vs better people. Kinda handy when you can go check exactly what they've been doing.
I see lots of people who rotate game types so they'll have max bonus points every time. It'd be nice of they applied to ALL your leagues.
And that background point system thing is all assumptions. People also claim I should be facing harder and harder opponents as I get streaks. Not at all true either. Win vs a couple plats I should get more plats or golds. Not bronzes.
Right now: ladder system is horseshit. They had a chihuahua design it.
There are three possibilities, here—either math is wrong, our knowledge about how the ladder works is wrong, or you have a serious case of confirmation bias.
Betting on that last one, myself.
I'm going with second one.
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
The cool thing about the rankings and so on (outside of the actual leagues) is that they are all just eye candy and a "clever" way of keeping the scrubs happy.
As the Elitists at TeamLiquid like to say "Anybody under 1200 points Diamond just exists to fund the game,everyone above 'actually' plays it."
the zerg sees the 2 gas and thinks some kind of starport play or tech
but then the dude doesn't do it, he just stockpiles the gas and makes a ground army
and the zerg player is left duuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Posts
how many barracks did you have?
36 zerglings is 900 mins. that means you could have had an army of at least 3 barracks and 9 marines based on just his army composition. if you count the cost of his pool then another 4 marines on top of that.
i think he just mass armied you while you tried to tech.
it happens.
Should I be going for plain barracks in that situation? As in don't spend the minerals/time making a tech lab, just make marines one at a time from each of them? It seems like in most every match I either go for a tech lab right away as soon as the barracks finishes, or I go for it right after the first marine if my refinery went up a bit late.
You can also hold a single sentry for good measure
You expanded when it was clearly unsafe to do so. You tried to expand AND tech without having any army. This is just crossing your fingers and hoping you don't get attacked. Clearly that didn't work.
Teching and making marines with those 400 minerals would have been a fine idea, making another barracks is fine.
This is my general rule of thumb: Make a barracks, constantly produce marines. Too many minerals? make another barracks and constantly produce marines with it. Too much gas? make a techlab/reactor and do not stop making marines/marauders with it. After 2 barracks you might decide to go factory, expand, or more barracks but you MUST constantly produce units. If you do not do this and they do, you will get smashed. Do not hope you won't get attacked.
After fine tuning this, you might want to cut one or two marines to expand a few seconds earlier and whatnot.
In my team games I find that I have HALF the structures and a comparable or superior army because I do this. People will sink minerals into buildings so they can produce units fast, when the fact is you should just always be producing units out of fewer structures. Two less barracks is 6 more marines.
That's awesome! Ha, and the song is even recorded with decent sound quality and the guy can actually sing.
Someone should modify the final protoss mission where all the protoss heroes warp in so that Pylo the Pylon warps in right at the end if you get to say, a 1000 kills, and blocks one of your ramps for you while having 400K hit points
Also, if your wall in was on a good map and well laid out, and you'd had say 4 marines and a marauder, and a couple of SCVsto repair, you could probably have won that fight. Heck, with some helper SCVs, even 3+1 vs 36 isn't an immediate gg.
That happens to me a lot, especially when I'm trying something new out, like my fast infestor build. If I can get 2-3 of them to their base I can basically kill their main building, which is hilarious. I think a big thing is to transition out of it into something else, but you use a lot of gas to get them, so the stopgap is probably a lot of lings.
BTW: great song.
I love DTs a lot cause even two of them can wreck havoc and are not a really a terrible loss if detected.
Also, dropping 2 immortals and then warping in like 4-5 DTs into an enemies base is SO FUN.
Scrap Station isn't really that good a map for a wall-in, though. It takes four buildings to wall that off and it's a very wide ramp, so he could theoretically be having a few zerglings apiece munching on all four at a time.
Ahh, scrap station, that's not so great a map for a wall in. If you want to defend there, you've got to have plenty of actual units to do it with.
traded my expo for all his scvs and his main
survived his suicide push with banelings and mutas and won
the funny part is he was running all his buildings to the corners even when i could see him, so I asked him what was up. turned out he wanted a drone killing achievement, and all he had left on the map was a raven, so i let him autoturret some drones
pretty sure that challenge only works on scvs
I killed about 40 probes and didn't get it, if you read the details it says scvs.
What would've been hilarious is if you let him kill all your drones and he rolled in with like 6 bcs.
yeah only reason i let him do it was i killed his cc so he was fully revealed, and then killed all his forces. not trying to go out like a punk
What the heck do points mean anyways? Other than "yeay points!"?
He's not talking about moving into diamond, he's talking about his division and he's right. I've stopped laddering as hard in my 1v1 just to get bonus pools. I have more wins and a similar ratio than guys with 200 points more than me because they play once a week.
It's kinda silly, but keep in mind your division rank is just a silly number...play the game to enjoy it.
I am not innocent of the same thoughts, and it has pissed me off too. I started playing a lot of team games because they're not stressful and you seem to have infinite bonus pool
Actually, this whole thing doesn't make any sense. Bonus points are accrued evenly by all players. If you're playing 10 games a day and he's playing 2, you're still getting exactly as many bonus points as he does. If he's scoring far more points than you he must be achieving a better win/loss ratio or playing against better people.
@Loklar: There's nothing more to it than "yeah points!". All the matchmaking/league placement stuff is done using other statistics that the player can't see.
I see lots of people who rotate game types so they'll have max bonus points every time. It'd be nice of they applied to ALL your leagues.
And that background point system thing is all assumptions. People also claim I should be facing harder and harder opponents as I get streaks. Not at all true either. Win vs a couple plats I should get more plats or golds. Not bronzes.
Right now: ladder system is horseshit. They had a chihuahua design it.
As the Elitists at TeamLiquid like to say "Anybody under 1200 points Diamond just exists to fund the game,everyone above 'actually' plays it."
Yes they are. Not over the short term as they eat up their bonus points, but over the long term. If they have 200 bonus points saved up and you have none, that's because those 200 points are already added to your point total. Sure, he's going to shoot up past your point total very quickly if he was within ~200 of you, but that's because you had an artificial lead on him since you used your bonus points a couple at a time.
Bonus points are even for all players and there is just as much reason to play when you have 0 as when you have 12. It's just that in the first case you've already earned those 12 points.
It's a background point system. You seem to think it correlates directly with league, which is a mistake many people make. Just because you face a silver player after defeating two plats doesn't mean the silver player is worse; he might have a much better record and MMR.
Masturbating.
Betting on that last one, myself.
how many people are above 1200 diamond? like 2?
I'm going with second one.
it's like noobishly brilliant.
the zerg sees the 2 gas and thinks some kind of starport play or tech
but then the dude doesn't do it, he just stockpiles the gas and makes a ground army
and the zerg player is left duuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
it's even confusing the casters
its jeanus