As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
We're funding a new Acquisitions Incorporated series on Kickstarter right now! Check it out at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pennyarcade/acquisitions-incorporated-the-series-2

[SC2: Multiplayer] Fast expand all over your face

1505153555660

Posts

  • RiddoxRiddox Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Barrack wall? He already anticipates the Ultras I'm guessing.

    Edit: Oh man siege tanks weren't sieged in time.

    Riddox on
    Gamertag: Ridley 8
  • Work SafeWork Safe Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    Work Safe wrote: »
    . If any race was completely weak then wouldn't you see none of them on the top? I'm pretty sure that the percent of zerg at the top is comparable to the percent of zerg players
    I can be wrong here
    You won't see NONE of them, but you'll see fewer. I don't have the stats handy, but it's something like Toss 33%, Terran 32%, Zerg 20% and Random 15%.
    What I am saying is that the ratio is even. Sure it might be 20% zerg, but if 20% of active players are zerg, then that's to be expected (assuming all else equal)

    I know less people play zerg, and the most people play protoss, but that doesn't mean that protoss is necessarily stronger than terran

    Work Safe on
  • iowaiowa Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    wish they would show dimagas upgrades.

    iowa on
  • EzekielEzekiel Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Then what's the reason fewer people prefer to play zerg? Gotta be something behind that.

    Ezekiel on
    428475-1.png
    I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
  • CycloneRangerCycloneRanger Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Klyka wrote: »
    I really enjoy 3 gate + stargate against Zerg, it kinda takes a lot of them by surprise.
    I do this a lot as well. Having the gate lets me scout (via a phoenix), construct void rays to counter any mass roach/ultra play, and have phoenixes available in case of mutas.

    It's weak to strong hydra play, though, which is why I always pursue another tech path shortly after. If he tries aggression after racing to hydras I'm in trouble—it comes down to forcefield use while I desperately research zealot charge/HTs or colossi.

    CycloneRanger on
  • TarCoffeeTarCoffee Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Work Safe wrote: »
    4gate is not infallible.
    If he's not a fucking idiot, it's pretty goddamn infallible against Zerg on larger maps.

    You can't macro hard because you won't have enough units to stop the initial push. But you won't have enough money/larva to stop the second push if you can fend off the first. It's a joke. Your only hope is to take out their pylon before they can get Warpgate up, which, it turns out, is somewhat difficult if they hide it well.

    The swarm can crush the puny Protoss and their little robots if timed correctly.

    TarCoffee on
    824455-1.png
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Nerf ramps vs ultras.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • CycloneRangerCycloneRanger Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    Then what's the reason fewer people prefer to play zerg? Gotta be something behind that.
    I'm going to guess that it's their awful macro mechanic.

    CycloneRanger on
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Klyka wrote: »
    I really enjoy 3 gate + stargate against Zerg, it kinda takes a lot of them by surprise.
    I do this a lot as well. Having the gate lets me scout (via a phoenix), construct void rays to counter any mass roach/ultra play, and have phoenixes available in case of mutas.

    It's weak to strong hydra play, though, which is why I always pursue another tech path shortly after. If he tries aggression after racing to hydras I'm in trouble—it comes down to forcefield use while I desperately research zealot charge/HTs or colossi.

    True, I love my Phoenix and Zealots though,so Chargelots are one of the first things I research.

    Klyka on
    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    at this point i don't see why you can't put spine crawlers onto ultras

    undeinPirat on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    ultras are insane

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • RiddoxRiddox Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I wonder if Dimaga might have been able to hold it off a little better if he had killed the SCVs repairing that Thor or if it would have been the same.

    Riddox on
    Gamertag: Ridley 8
  • EzekielEzekiel Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Would it be so bad if zerg's creep started out bigger? Say....to the ramp?

    Ezekiel on
    428475-1.png
    I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Pretty amazing that TLO did almost no damage with his Hellions and ended up losing a bunch, but because he could get his natural and transition into that upgrade-heavy mech he still never looked like he was going to lose.

    His Corkiness on
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    They should make creep pooping tier 1.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • Work SafeWork Safe Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    Then what's the reason fewer people prefer to play zerg? Gotta be something behind that.

    Why don't I play zerg? I find them unwieldly, I don't like spitting larva, I don't like their units, I don't like zerg. That's it. I don't avoid them because they're "weak". I think their creep is cool, but i don't like losing my drones to structures, it just feels like a lot to follow. I started with Protoss and I stuck with it. If I started with Zerg I'd probably have stuck with them. They were all foreign to me at the time.

    And even assuming that perhaps they are harder to get used to (which may be true, though I know plenty of BW players that still play zerg) this doesn't make them necessarily harder to use with sufficient experience, or a worse race. Assuming you have background in statistics, the reasons people don't play zerg can be literally anything.

    Work Safe on
  • CasedOutCasedOut Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    CasedOut wrote: »
    I seriously think I'm just going to stop playing multi until they nerf 4 gate, since Zerg can't fucking defend against it.

    This simply isnt true, also you should be pretty much just expecting 4 gate vs protoss. It really isn't that hard to defend against and when it fails many protoss fall apart after that.

    Yes you can defend by 6-pooling

    Woo

    post a replay of you losing to a 4gate and ill tell you what you are doing wrong

    CasedOut on
    452773-1.png
  • TkenTken post-CSL January 2012 Partycraft 6th Place Winner Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I think fewer people prefer Zerg because they're more complicated. I don't think we're underpowered really, and I imagine over time that more and more Zergs will figure out the right timings and drone/army balances and realize that despite a little complexity, we're right on par with the other races.

    The ratio of top Zerg players to total Zerg players is definitely fine.

    Tken on
    steam_sig.png
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    Then what's the reason fewer people prefer to play zerg? Gotta be something behind that.

    Well as a shitty bronze player (though I just got my 3 in a row ach so maybe I'm improving?) anyways, as a shitty bronze player zerg just seems harder, the units weaker. I'll get around to trying them out eventually, but I can only imagine I would go with a 2nd hatch just for production after the expansion. I mean shit, it seems like all zerg can do is either harass or suicide units into an army.

    That doesn't seem like fun to me. Also, GD they should be able to wall off a little more effectively.

    Derrick on
    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
  • EzekielEzekiel Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Work Safe wrote: »
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    Then what's the reason fewer people prefer to play zerg? Gotta be something behind that.

    Why don't I play zerg? I find them unwieldly, I don't like spitting larva, I don't like their units, I don't like zerg. That's it. I don't avoid them because they're "weak"

    So it's all aesthetics? If that was the case, the ratio would be much closer. That kind of disparity speaks to something a little deeper.

    Ezekiel on
    428475-1.png
    I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    Work Safe wrote: »
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    Then what's the reason fewer people prefer to play zerg? Gotta be something behind that.

    Why don't I play zerg? I find them unwieldly, I don't like spitting larva, I don't like their units, I don't like zerg. That's it. I don't avoid them because they're "weak"

    So it's all aesthetics? If that was the case, the ratio would be much closer. That kind of disparity speaks to something a little deeper.

    I actually like the look of the zerg units. Terran are the most boring, IMO.

    Derrick on
    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
  • nealcmnealcm Alvarian AlvarianRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    at this point i don't see why you can't put spine crawlers onto ultras

    omegalisks need to happen

    somebody find the concept art for them

    nealcm on
    19ZUtIw.png
  • ZypherIMZypherIM Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I think less people play zerg, because they're a much more reactive race. I either need to react to what you're building, or try to get you to build something and build what I can that works good against that. I can't just make up a big army and steamroll in no matter what they've got.

    ZypherIM on
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I don't know,I can kinda see a lot more people liking the aesthetics of the "human" and "technology" race then those of the "slimy bug" race.

    Klyka on
    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Does zerg really have an unbeatable "critical mass" unit?

    Protoss have Void Rays. Terran have Tanks. Zerg have...? I can't think of something for them that just gets to the point that it's extremely difficult to overcome. That might be part of the problem?

    Derrick on
    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    Work Safe wrote: »
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    Then what's the reason fewer people prefer to play zerg? Gotta be something behind that.

    Why don't I play zerg? I find them unwieldly, I don't like spitting larva, I don't like their units, I don't like zerg. That's it. I don't avoid them because they're "weak"

    So it's all aesthetics? If that was the case, the ratio would be much closer. That kind of disparity speaks to something a little deeper.

    the perception that they are weaker whether they actually are or not

    edit - also that they are harder to play wrt mechanics

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • nealcmnealcm Alvarian AlvarianRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    Would it be so bad if zerg's creep started out bigger? Say....to the ramp?
    TheStig wrote: »
    They should make creep pooping tier 1.

    my friend was saying that people were discussing on some forum that hatcheries should come with a creep tumor or queens should start with 50 energy

    that'd be cool

    nealcm on
    19ZUtIw.png
  • EzekielEzekiel Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    nealcm wrote: »
    at this point i don't see why you can't put spine crawlers onto ultras

    omegalisks need to happen

    somebody find the concept art for them

    art617-Omegalisk_concept.jpg

    Ezekiel on
    428475-1.png
    I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
  • BritishDavidBritishDavid Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Omegalisk
    200px-Ultralisk_SC2_Head2.jpg

    BritishDavid on
    CjTxUSDXAAEzV5h.jpg
    Xbox | x Dredgen Yor x |
  • RiddoxRiddox Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Add to game - balance Zerg

    Edit: Beaten twice nvm.

    Riddox on
    Gamertag: Ridley 8
  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    as much as i like probe noises

    all of the zerg noises are pretty fun

    (i like races with cool noises)

    (thus fuck terran)

    undeinPirat on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • EzekielEzekiel Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    ZypherIM wrote: »
    I think less people play zerg, because they're a much more reactive race. I either need to react to what you're building, or try to get you to build something and build what I can that works good against that. I can't just make up a big army and steamroll in no matter what they've got.

    If they're the "reactive" race...shouldn't scouting be a little less of a chore? Not saying its impossible, but its damn frustrating.

    Ezekiel on
    428475-1.png
    I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
  • Work SafeWork Safe Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    Work Safe wrote: »
    Ezekiel wrote: »
    Then what's the reason fewer people prefer to play zerg? Gotta be something behind that.
    Why don't I play zerg? I find them unwieldly, I don't like spitting larva, I don't like their units, I don't like zerg. That's it. I don't avoid them because they're "weak"
    So it's all aesthetics? If that was the case, the ratio would be much closer. That kind of disparity speaks to something a little deeper.
    I edited my last post before seeing this one, but to refine things I'll say this. With zerg, you get more freedom with the cost of having a bit more upkeep. I have to click a robo or stargate in order to make those units, you can make them all from one structure. However, you need to click a queen and spit larva every 40(?) seconds. You can stock up on money and larva and counter any force with a complete army in a dozen seconds, We can't do that. Sure warpgates are nice, but you'll never be making 30 units at one time with warpgates.

    This mechanic, of spitting larva rather than clicking on a building, is somewhat unintuitive IMO. And I think it is this specific mechanic that people avoid.

    If you want to talk about micro, zerg micro is effectively three things. Ctrl clicking, boxing, and attack moving. With protoss, I have to forcefield things and guardian shield, and that's just with my starting army. That's not to mention the blinking that comes soon, the gravity lifting, or any of that. Zerg is inherently more attack moving and less "abilities". Zerg is more about mouse control (imo) while protoss is more about keyboard clicks and ability placement. Anyone else can disagree, the differences between the races are myriad.

    Work Safe on
  • nealcmnealcm Alvarian AlvarianRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    yep

    thats what ultralisks should be

    maybe we'll get an ultralisk morph in heart of the swarm!!!

    nealcm on
    19ZUtIw.png
  • RiddoxRiddox Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Why do Zerg bother to expand on LT before Spire? They should see this coming by now.

    Edit: Well slow drops gets the job done at least. :P

    Riddox on
    Gamertag: Ridley 8
  • TarCoffeeTarCoffee Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Derrick wrote: »
    Does zerg really have an unbeatable "critical mass" unit?

    Protoss have Void Rays. Terran have Tanks. Zerg have...? I can't think of something for them that just gets to the point that it's extremely difficult to overcome. That might be part of the problem?

    Hydralisks.

    Drown them in a sea of Hydralisks.

    I don't think I've ever teched to Brood Lords and won.

    TarCoffee on
    824455-1.png
  • Edgler VessEdgler Vess Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Klyka wrote: »
    I don't know,I can kinda see a lot more people liking the aesthetics of the "human" and "technology" race then those of the "slimy bug" race.

    I love the "Slimy Bug Race", The real reason I play Zerg though, is I love zerglings, they make me laugh.

    Edgler Vess on
    steam_sig.png
  • EzekielEzekiel Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    TarCoffee wrote: »
    Derrick wrote: »
    Does zerg really have an unbeatable "critical mass" unit?

    Protoss have Void Rays. Terran have Tanks. Zerg have...? I can't think of something for them that just gets to the point that it's extremely difficult to overcome. That might be part of the problem?

    Hydralisks.

    Drown them in a sea of Hydralisks.

    I don't think I've ever teched to Brood Lords and won.

    Broodlords are game enders. Do it more often.

    Ezekiel on
    428475-1.png
    I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I don't understand the reactive thing. not saying it's not true I just don't really understand it.

    everyone has to react to what there opponent is doing.

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • Work SafeWork Safe Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Derrick wrote: »
    Does zerg really have an unbeatable "critical mass" unit?
    Protoss have Void Rays. Terran have Tanks. Zerg have...? I can't think of something for them that just gets to the point that it's extremely difficult to overcome. That might be part of the problem?
    Broodlords are pretty damn awesome. If you don't have sufficient AA they can be a bitch.

    void rays are countered by marines or mutalisks(?) and tanks are countered by any air to ground unit. Broodlords are like tanks but sweeter (thus more expensive)

    Work Safe on
Sign In or Register to comment.